UK diy (uk.d-i-y) For the discussion of all topics related to diy (do-it-yourself) in the UK. All levels of experience and proficency are welcome to join in to ask questions or offer solutions.

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  #161   Report Post  
top gear
 
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"Grimly Curmudgeon" wrote in message
...
It was somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember "top gear"
saying something like:

Really, your advice is misleading ********.


Say that to my auto design engineer friend and he may be tad amused.


I don't believe he exists.

Imaginary friends are nothing to be ashamed of; they're just a symptom
of something.


Oh he exists alright, and as Doctor Evil recommends use cheap supermarket
oil for 40,000 miles as you all know the answers, and would know this is
what is best.



  #162   Report Post  
top gear
 
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"Doctor Evil" wrote in message
...

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Doctor Evil wrote:
So you're advising others to wreck their engines?


Not in the least. I advise people to use full synthetic oils because

of
their superior lubrication qualities.


But as usual have a one size fits all answer.


You don't want to use the oils, or have your engine properly lubriacted,

and
have made this clear. This is your choice. So it is best for you to buy

the
cheapest oil from the cheapest supermaket and put it in for 40,000 miles.
Think of the few quid you would have saved. Who cares if the engine sounds
like a can of nuts being rattled. Just think of that few bob you saved.

This
is the best approach for you and you should do it now. I'm sure it will
give you great satisfaction.


LOL.


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  #163   Report Post  
Grimly Curmudgeon
 
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It was somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember "top gear"
saying something like:

Full synthetic oil is not snake oil. Its benefits over run of the mill
mineral oils is beyond question, and I have no intention of going down the
synthetic vs mineral argument. My automotive engineering friends, not
mechanics, say that Slick 50 in the gear box will prevent wear. I believe
them. :-) Slick 50 g/box treatment is not a one off treatment like the
engine version. It has to be in at all times.


Nobody in this thread has claimed that synthetic oil is snake oil...
Slick 50, otoh, fulfils most of the requirements for that.
--

Dave
  #164   Report Post  
Grimly Curmudgeon
 
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It was somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember "top gear"
saying something like:

Oh he exists alright, and as Doctor Evil recommends use cheap supermarket
oil for 40,000 miles as you all know the answers, and would know this is
what is best.


Cheap supermarket oil has a place in the market - in SOCs that lose/use
a bit of oil anyway and aren't worth spending a lot of money on.

I use fleet oils of a decent standard in my cars, vans and bikes and
have done for years. If it weren't for the oil contamination inherent in
diesel engines, I would certainly use synthetics in them, but since I
wouldn't trust the extended drain interval recommended by Ford in the
case of my Transit (some 14,000miles), the benfits of synthetic will
continue to elude me. In that particular case I prefer the peace of mind
of simply changing oil and filter at 6000miles.

You see, I know all about synthetics and fully support their use where
appropriate; but your insistence that they fit everything is, to repeat,
misleading ********.

As an illustration...

One of my bikes had over 200,000 miles up on the engine when it lost
compression. A stripdown revealed the rings had past their sellby date
and had simply got a bit tired.
On inspection, I found the pistons and bores had no discernable wear on
them from new and could go together quite happily with new rings.

Oh, by the way, that engine was only ever run on mineral 20/50 all of
its life, changed every 2-3000miles, and worked hard, it being a
despatch bike.
--

Dave
  #165   Report Post  
Grimly Curmudgeon
 
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It was somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember "Christian McArdle"
saying something like:

OTOH, I agree that for a water cooled engine, anything other than a fully
synthetic oil is complete folly.


********.
--

Dave


  #166   Report Post  
Grimly Curmudgeon
 
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It was somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember The Natural Philosopher
saying something like:

We are talking gearboxes, not engines here for a tart.


All revved up and ready to go?
--

Dave
  #167   Report Post  
Doctor Evil
 
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"Grimly Curmudgeon" wrote in message
...
It was somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember "Christian McArdle"
saying something like:

OTOH, I agree that for a water cooled engine, anything other than a fully
synthetic oil is complete folly.


********.


Not another one.


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  #168   Report Post  
Doctor Evil
 
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"Grimly Curmudgeon" wrote in message
...
It was somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember "top gear"
saying something like:

Oh he exists alright, and as Doctor Evil recommends use cheap supermarket
oil for 40,000 miles as you all know the answers, and would know this is
what is best.


Cheap supermarket oil has a place in the market - in SOCs that lose/use
a bit of oil anyway and aren't worth spending a lot of money on.

I use fleet oils of a decent standard in my cars, vans and bikes and
have done for years. If it weren't for the oil contamination inherent in
diesel engines, I would certainly use synthetics in them, but since I
wouldn't trust the extended drain interval recommended by Ford in the
case of my Transit (some 14,000miles), the benfits of synthetic will
continue to elude me. In that particular case I prefer the peace of mind
of simply changing oil and filter at 6000miles.

You see, I know all about synthetics and fully support their use where
appropriate; but your insistence that they fit everything is, to repeat,
misleading ********.

As an illustration...

One of my bikes had over 200,000 miles up on the engine when it lost
compression. A stripdown revealed the rings had past their sellby date
and had simply got a bit tired.
On inspection, I found the pistons and bores had no discernable wear on
them from new and could go together quite happily with new rings.

Oh, by the way, that engine was only ever run on mineral 20/50 all of
its life, changed every 2-3000miles, and worked hard, it being a
despatch bike.


What degrades mineral oil a lot is the camshafts. They put enormous pressure
on oil degrading it quite quickly. Once it looses its shear cam wear is
accelerated. Synthetics resist cam wear infinitely better than minerals and
for all of the time the oil is in the engine. With everything being top end
on an engine these days, on start up synthetics really benefit. Overnight
the oil drains down leaving the galleries and top end dry. The thin nature
of the oils means it gets to the bearings very fast. The cams are about the
furthest point away from the oil pump.

Synthetics are perfectly suited for diesels as they resist contamination
much better than mineral oils, and then all the other attributes which have
already been mentioned. Mobil make a Mobil 1 for turbo diesels, as do other
makers.

At the oil research lab I asked them about diesels and they also said
synthetics are better for diesels too. Now this was about 15 years ago, and
synthetics have come a long way since then too. They said one of the few
places for mineral oils was in slow revving ships engines, where the oil and
engine were up to temperature and oil pressure primed before the crank was
turned, but only if the oil was regularly tested and changed immediately on
degradation. Mineral oils degrade quite quickly once they go.

Cheap supermarket oil has a place in the market? That may be the case of the
"market", but not in any engine I know of.

Dropping the service intervals on a Ford is a good thing. Best not buy a
FixOrRepairDaily in the first place.



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  #169   Report Post  
:::Jerry::::
 
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"Doctor Evil" wrote in message
...

"Grimly Curmudgeon" wrote in message
...
It was somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember "Christian McArdle"
saying something like:

OTOH, I agree that for a water cooled engine, anything other than a

fully
synthetic oil is complete folly.


********.


I wouldn't say it's ********, but I would also say that to describe it as
'complete folly' is simplistic, again it will depend on what the engine has
been designed to use.


Not another one.


Yes you are another one who doesn't understand lubrication / cooling /
engine design, anyone would think life started with synthetic oils the way
you keep going on about the dire consequences of not using it - clue, air
cooled aero-engines have been around since before the 1914-18 war.


  #170   Report Post  
:::Jerry::::
 
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"Doctor Evil" wrote in message
...

snip

What degrades mineral oil a lot is the camshafts. They put enormous

pressure
on oil degrading it quite quickly. Once it looses its shear cam wear is
accelerated. Synthetics resist cam wear infinitely better than minerals

and
for all of the time the oil is in the engine.


Bollock, the largest reason for camshaft wear is lack of an oil supply, in
OHV engines camshafts often out-lived crankshafts, what often did wear was
the followers - but then they were *designed* to be sacrificial to some
extent.

With everything being top end
on an engine these days, on start up synthetics really benefit. Overnight
the oil drains down leaving the galleries and top end dry. The thin nature
of the oils means it gets to the bearings very fast. The cams are about

the
furthest point away from the oil pump.


You really are clueless about lubrication.


Synthetics are perfectly suited for diesels as they resist contamination
much better than mineral oils, and then all the other attributes which

have
already been mentioned. Mobil make a Mobil 1 for turbo diesels, as do

other
makers.

At the oil research lab I asked them about diesels and they also said
synthetics are better for diesels too. Now this was about 15 years ago,

and

Funny that, many manufacturers were telling people NOT to put synthetics in
their diesels around that time.... Again it comes down to what the engine
has been DESIGNED to use.

synthetics have come a long way since then too. They said one of the few
places for mineral oils was in slow revving ships engines, where the oil

and
engine were up to temperature and oil pressure primed before the crank was
turned, but only if the oil was regularly tested and changed immediately

on
degradation.


ROFLO, I can just see an engineer telling the Captain that it's ******** to
the force 9 gale, I have to change the engine oil !

Mineral oils degrade quite quickly once they go.


All oil does, including synthetics - hence why in high stress or cost
installations it's changed on duty hours (or even at every opportunity
regardless) or the oil is sampled and tested to find out it's true
condition.


Cheap supermarket oil has a place in the market? That may be the case of

the
"market", but not in any engine I know of.

Dropping the service intervals on a Ford is a good thing. Best not buy a
FixOrRepairDaily in the first place.


Oh, right, that would be why the Ford Transit is the largest selling light
commercial vehicle in the UK then.... IMM, you are an ignorant f*ckwit.




  #171   Report Post  
Dave Plowman (News)
 
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In article ,
top gear wrote:
You don't want to use the oils, or have your engine properly
lubriacted, and have made this clear. This is your choice. So it is
best for you to buy the cheapest oil from the cheapest supermaket and
put it in for 40,000 miles. Think of the few quid you would have
saved. Who cares if the engine sounds like a can of nuts being
rattled. Just think of that few bob you saved. This is the best
approach for you and you should do it now. I'm sure it will give you
great satisfaction.


LOL.


*Very* bad form to laugh at your own 'joke', John.

--
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Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
  #172   Report Post  
Doctor Evil
 
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"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
top gear wrote:
You don't want to use the oils, or have your engine properly
lubriacted, and have made this clear. This is your choice. So it is
best for you to buy the cheapest oil from the cheapest supermaket and
put it in for 40,000 miles. Think of the few quid you would have
saved. Who cares if the engine sounds like a can of nuts being
rattled. Just think of that few bob you saved. This is the best
approach for you and you should do it now. I'm sure it will give you
great satisfaction.


LOL.


*Very* bad form to laugh at your own 'joke', John.


Top Gear, the loonies on here will think you are me, John, Dave, Icky the
Firebobby and just about everyone else. A right paranoid know-it-all lot who
run cars with engines that sound like old tractors.



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  #173   Report Post  
Grimly Curmudgeon
 
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It was somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember ":::Jerry::::"
saying something like:

I wouldn't say it's ********, but I would also say that to describe it as
'complete folly' is simplistic, again it will depend on what the engine has
been designed to use.


Exactly. The use of synthetic in absolutely every engine, as was
advocated, would be a waste of money in many cases.
--

Dave
  #174   Report Post  
Grimly Curmudgeon
 
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It was somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember ":::Jerry::::"
saying something like:

Oh, right, that would be why the Ford Transit is the largest selling light
commercial vehicle in the UK then.... IMM, you are an ignorant f*ckwit.


Notice how he totally ignored my 200,000 mile bike engine, with integral
gearbox, lubricated entirely on mineral oil.
--

Dave
  #175   Report Post  
Dave Plowman (News)
 
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In article ,
Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:
I wouldn't say it's ********, but I would also say that to describe it
as 'complete folly' is simplistic, again it will depend on what the
engine has been designed to use.


Exactly. The use of synthetic in absolutely every engine, as was
advocated, would be a waste of money in many cases.


I've also read that engines not designed for it may leak - something to do
with the seals not being up to it?

--
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Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.


  #176   Report Post  
Dave Plowman (News)
 
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In article ,
Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:
Oh, right, that would be why the Ford Transit is the largest selling
light commercial vehicle in the UK then.... IMM, you are an ignorant
f*ckwit.


Notice how he totally ignored my 200,000 mile bike engine, with integral
gearbox, lubricated entirely on mineral oil.


Many many years ago, Castrol ran a series of ads about cars which had done
vast mileages on their very definitely non synthetic oils. And since those
days manufacturing tolerances and materials used in engines have improved
- let alone the oils themselves.
My bother's BMW 520 is approaching 250,000 miles, and has certainly never
had synthetic oil - and leads a hard life towing much of the time.

Synthetic only makes economic sense on engines designed for it and longer
service intervals. Otherwise just stick to what was recommended or better,
spec wise.

--
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  #177   Report Post  
Dave Plowman (News)
 
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In article ,
Doctor Evil wrote:
Top Gear, the loonies on here will think you are me, John


Talking to yourself now? Perhaps the final sign of madness?
Still, at least you've admitted you're John.
Is this the start of a new honest Adam?

--
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Dave Plowman London SW
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  #178   Report Post  
Doctor Evil
 
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"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Doctor Evil wrote:
Top Gear, the loonies on here will think you are me, John


Talking to


Please buy the cheapest oil and leave in for 40,000 miles. You must do this
to regain your sanity.


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  #179   Report Post  
Doctor Evil
 
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"Grimly Curmudgeon" wrote in message
...
It was somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember ":::Jerry::::"
saying something like:

I wouldn't say it's ********, but I would also say that to describe it as
'complete folly' is simplistic, again it will depend on what the engine

has
been designed to use.


Exactly. The use of synthetic in absolutely every engine, as was
advocated, would be a waste of money in many cases.


Not so.


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  #180   Report Post  
Doctor Evil
 
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"Grimly Curmudgeon" wrote in message
...
It was somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember ":::Jerry::::"
saying something like:

Oh, right, that would be why the Ford Transit is the largest selling

light
commercial vehicle in the UK then.... IMM, you are an ignorant f*ckwit.


Ford are crap, anyone wilth any knowledge will tell you that.

Notice how he totally ignored my 200,000 mile bike engine, with integral
gearbox, lubricated entirely on mineral oil.


And nothing ever went wrong? I don't believe you if you say nothing ever
went wrong. What was the cam wear? er, er, er.............


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  #181   Report Post  
Doctor Evil
 
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"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:
I wouldn't say it's ********, but I would also say that to describe it
as 'complete folly' is simplistic, again it will depend on what the
engine has been designed to use.


Exactly. The use of synthetic in absolutely every engine, as was
advocated, would be a waste of money in many cases.


I've also read that engines not designed for it


NO modern engine is not designed for it. I have never read such silly
people as on this thread. And they actually do think they know what they
are on about. Oh sorry! Please do not use synthetic oils. Buy the cheapest
you can find and run it for 40,000 miles. That better for you?




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  #182   Report Post  
Doctor Evil
 
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"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...

My bother's BMW 520 is approaching
250,000 miles, and has certainly never
had synthetic oil - and leads a hard life
towing much of the time.


...and sounds and feels like a tractor.

Synthetic only makes economic sense
on engines designed for it


ALL modern engines are designed for it. Sorry, oh for you they are not,
please buy the cheapest and nastiest oil available and run it for 40,000
miles. Please do this.


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  #183   Report Post  
Doctor Evil
 
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"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...

Talking to yourself now?


I feel like I am talking to the wall with the likes of you. I would get
more sense from it.



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  #184   Report Post  
:::Jerry::::
 
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"Doctor Evil" wrote in message
...

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:
I wouldn't say it's ********, but I would also say that to describe

it
as 'complete folly' is simplistic, again it will depend on what the
engine has been designed to use.


Exactly. The use of synthetic in absolutely every engine, as was
advocated, would be a waste of money in many cases.


I've also read that engines not designed for it


NO modern engine is not designed for it. I have never read such silly
people as on this thread. And they actually do think they know what they


Define modern, let alone the fact this is the first time you have conceded
that there are engines that don't fit the original simplistic "Use synthetic
oils" statement that you and your 'friend' made.

are on about. Oh sorry! Please do not use synthetic oils. Buy the

cheapest
you can find and run it for 40,000 miles. That better for you?


And you do know what you're talking about ? Those pigs are flying over head
again...
You obviously buy oil depending on what the marketing men say, the rest of
us buy on what the engine is designed to use and what the spec' of the oil
is.


  #185   Report Post  
:::Jerry::::
 
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"Doctor Evil" wrote in message
...

"Grimly Curmudgeon" wrote in message
...
It was somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember ":::Jerry::::"
saying something like:

I wouldn't say it's ********, but I would also say that to describe it

as
'complete folly' is simplistic, again it will depend on what the engine

has
been designed to use.


Exactly. The use of synthetic in absolutely every engine, as was
advocated, would be a waste of money in many cases.


Not so.


Wrong. What 'Grimly Curmudgeon' said is absolutely so. Anyone with even the
basic knowledge of engine design knows that. Are you seriously suggesting
that synthetic will benefit a (for example) Ford 100E engine let alone not
cause problems ?




  #186   Report Post  
Dave Plowman (News)
 
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In article ,
Doctor Evil wrote:
My bother's BMW 520 is approaching
250,000 miles, and has certainly never
had synthetic oil - and leads a hard life
towing much of the time.


..and sounds and feels like a tractor.


You seem to be very knowledgeable about tractors. Is this what you do for
a living - a farm hand?

Synthetic only makes economic sense
on engines designed for it


ALL modern engines are designed for it. Sorry, oh for you they are not,
please buy the cheapest and nastiest oil available and run it for 40,000
miles. Please do this.


So now you're talking about only modern cars? Like the 14 year old
Cavaliers you mentioned earlier?

--
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  #187   Report Post  
Roger
 
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The message
from "top gear" contains these words:

To be fair


You should only use cheap super market oil and leave it in for 40,000 miles.
That is the ticket just for you.


Now is that funny.

Gormless snipping and irrational remarks are the trademarks of dIMM and
up to now he has never failed to respond in that manner to what I have
to say about him. But not this time. Not only does Topqueer take up the
quest dIMM as his acknowledged self forgets to respond as programmed.
Proof positive that Topqueer and DrivEl are one and the same.

--
Roger
  #188   Report Post  
Grimly Curmudgeon
 
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It was somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember "Doctor Evil"
saying something like:

Notice how he totally ignored my 200,000 mile bike engine, with integral
gearbox, lubricated entirely on mineral oil.


And nothing ever went wrong? I don't believe you if you say nothing ever
went wrong. What was the cam wear? er, er, er.............


The only thing that went wrong mechanically was the tired piston rings.
If your comprehension skills were any good, you should have garnered
that knowledge from my post.
On stripdown, the pistons, bores, cams, had no discernable wear... every
part was within manufacturers tolerances and with a new set of rings
that engine will be as good as new.

Reminds me... I must put the bugger back together.
--

Dave
  #189   Report Post  
Doctor Evil
 
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"Roger" wrote in message
k...

Roger, how is Essex today? You must keep using the cheapest oil on the
market for your engine. You must is is good for you.


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  #190   Report Post  
Doctor Evil
 
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"Huge" wrote in message
...

My 3.9 Disco has done over 90,000 miles


You have a mobile disco?


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  #191   Report Post  
Roger
 
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The message
from "Doctor Evil" contains these words:

Roger, how is Essex today?


How would I know. I live in Yorkshire.

You must keep using the cheapest oil on the market for your engine.


Why? I trust the garage to put the right oil in when it is serviced and
it doesn't need topping up between services.

You must is is good for you.


I think you need to increase your medication otherwise you will shortly
become completely unintelligible.

--
Roger
  #192   Report Post  
Doctor Evil
 
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"Roger" wrote in message
k...
The message
from "Doctor Evil" contains these words:

Roger, how is Essex today?


How would I know. I live in Yorkshire.


Terrific!! You went to help the Third World. Are you doing voluntary work?

You must keep using the cheapest
oil on the market for your engine.


Why? I trust the garage to put the
right oil in when it is serviced and
it doesn't need topping up between services.


Don't trust them!!! They may put good stuff in!!!! Buy the cheapest and
nastiest, give it to them, and tell them to put that stuff in. Have it
serviced every 40,000, that will make you happy.



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  #193   Report Post  
Dave Plowman (News)
 
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In article ,
Doctor Evil wrote:
You must is is good for you.


More 'sense' from our resident fool.

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  #194   Report Post  
Dave Plowman (News)
 
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In article ,
Doctor Evil wrote:
My 3.9 Disco has done over 90,000 miles


You have a mobile disco?


More proof of your lack of even the most basic knowledge of motoring.

--
*On the other hand, you have different fingers.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
  #195   Report Post  
Doctor Evil
 
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"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Doctor Evil wrote:
My 3.9 Disco has done over 90,000 miles


You have a mobile disco?


More proof of your lack of even the most basic knowledge of motoring.


How else does a mobile disco get around? A handcart?


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  #196   Report Post  
Stefek Zaba
 
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Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:
It was somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember


.... but sadly, we'll rely on the existing canon of written memories
alone from now on. An excess of self-inflicted over-fast lead in the
cranium, apparently... Bummer.
  #197   Report Post  
The Natural Philosopher
 
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Stefek Zaba wrote:

Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:

It was somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember



... but sadly, we'll rely on the existing canon of written memories
alone from now on. An excess of self-inflicted over-fast lead in the
cranium, apparently... Bummer.


Yuip.

Mind you, I can understand why, given the state of the Union these days...
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