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UK diy (uk.d-i-y) For the discussion of all topics related to diy (do-it-yourself) in the UK. All levels of experience and proficency are welcome to join in to ask questions or offer solutions. |
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#41
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"John Rumm" wrote in message ... Tim S wrote: I replaced it with (I forget the exact brand) a synthetic gearoil with a low viscosity/temperature variation, and it was impressively improved. The gearbox had suffered over the years, but it worked perfectly well for several years afterwards until everything else fell off and I traded it in. I had a problem with the syncro on second gear graunching when selecting at over 40mph (changing up or down). Had a chat with the bods who service it etc, and they said that Shell had developed a gear oil that was supposed to fix this problem and suggested I give that a try. Went for a quick gearbox oil change, and it was like a miracle fix - it restored perfect operation immediately and it has remained that way for the last 65k miles. It was IIRC, "Shell Gear Oil S". It was about 10 quid a litre mind you! -- Cheers, John. I think the S may have stood for synthetic. It may have been replaced by Spirax GSX or ASX gear oils. I would check with the Shell technical department first to be sure. http://www.shell.com/home/Framework?...ml/iwgen/zzz_l hn.html&FC3=/global/shell_for_businesses/oils_lubricants/spirax/product_page s/spirax_gsx_asx_ga_0209.html |
#42
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":::Jerry::::" wrote in message ... "top gear" wrote in message ... "StealthUK" wrote in message oups.com... The Natural Philosopher wrote: A few tears ago I had a boss who had a passat that had done 200,000km - I supoose about 160k miles? Ordinary oil, changed by the book, and it was fine. Depends on how the car is driven and even 200k miles on modern engines is nothing amazing these days. I'd rather go by the condition of the oil than stick to manufacturer's recommendations. Regards additives, I believe most of the stuff on the market is a waste of space but Slick50 engine oil additive isn't a bad product. I've used it and noticed engine noise was reduced, especially during start-up, with no adverse effects. No idea about the gearbox stuff, never used it. It is true that cars can go long mileages without any major work. My point was that using Mobil 1 in the engine and g/box and Slick 50 g/box, and the change intervals I suggested, the engine and transmission is still as smooth as a new one, even after 100K miles. I have come across cars that have really clocked up the miles with the usual roughness after 70K. The original post was about roughness. I suggested how to maintain longevity and smoothness, which actually does work. My design engineer friends says that modern engines are designed to be smooth to 50K miles with normal servicing and decent oil, and some engines deteriorate rapidly in smoothness after that figure. He recommends fully synthetic oils. REGULAR OIL CHANGES WILL HAVE THE SAME EFFECT, it doesn't matter what the oil is, as long as it is the correct spec' for the engine. The oil does matter. The best available is fully synthetics like Mobil 1 and Shell Helix fully synthetics. These oils are much superior to normal mineral oils in just about every aspect. This is a know fact that is not open to question. I can't comment on Slick 50 engine treatment as I have never used it. As I looked after the engines and transmissions from new using the best oils available, I have never experienced roughness to say that something added stops it. And I have known vehicles that have gone 150.000 plus miles on nothing more than the makers recommended oils whilst being changed on or before the advised service intervals for the vehicles use. I am not disputing that. It is maintaining the smoothness and newness feel for as long as possible that is the point being made by me. Wonder were IMM is ?.... |
#43
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"top gear" wrote in message ... ":::Jerry::::" wrote in message ... "top gear" wrote in message ... "StealthUK" wrote in message oups.com... The Natural Philosopher wrote: A few tears ago I had a boss who had a passat that had done 200,000km - I supoose about 160k miles? Ordinary oil, changed by the book, and it was fine. Depends on how the car is driven and even 200k miles on modern engines is nothing amazing these days. I'd rather go by the condition of the oil than stick to manufacturer's recommendations. Regards additives, I believe most of the stuff on the market is a waste of space but Slick50 engine oil additive isn't a bad product. I've used it and noticed engine noise was reduced, especially during start-up, with no adverse effects. No idea about the gearbox stuff, never used it. It is true that cars can go long mileages without any major work. My point was that using Mobil 1 in the engine and g/box and Slick 50 g/box, and the change intervals I suggested, the engine and transmission is still as smooth as a new one, even after 100K miles. I have come across cars that have really clocked up the miles with the usual roughness after 70K. The original post was about roughness. I suggested how to maintain longevity and smoothness, which actually does work. My design engineer friends says that modern engines are designed to be smooth to 50K miles with normal servicing and decent oil, and some engines deteriorate rapidly in smoothness after that figure. He recommends fully synthetic oils. REGULAR OIL CHANGES WILL HAVE THE SAME EFFECT, it doesn't matter what the oil is, as long as it is the correct spec' for the engine. The oil does matter. The best available is fully synthetics like Mobil 1 and Shell Helix fully synthetics. These oils are much superior to normal mineral oils in just about every aspect. This is a know fact that is not open to question. So why are they not specified by the people who design / make the engines ? IMM, you were proved wrong the last time you spouted this marketing bollox and you will be proved wrong again. I can't comment on Slick 50 engine treatment as I have never used it. As I looked after the engines and transmissions from new using the best oils available, I have never experienced roughness to say that something added stops it. And I have known vehicles that have gone 150.000 plus miles on nothing more than the makers recommended oils whilst being changed on or before the advised service intervals for the vehicles use. I am not disputing that. It is maintaining the smoothness and newness feel for as long as possible that is the point being made by me. And you are wrong, or are you in fact disputing what I said above ?! Wonder were IMM is ?.... To answer my own question, he seems to have morphed again :~( |
#44
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":::Jerry::::" wrote in message ... "top gear" wrote in message ... ":::Jerry::::" wrote in message ... "top gear" wrote in message ... "StealthUK" wrote in message oups.com... The Natural Philosopher wrote: A few tears ago I had a boss who had a passat that had done 200,000km - I supoose about 160k miles? Ordinary oil, changed by the book, and it was fine. Depends on how the car is driven and even 200k miles on modern engines is nothing amazing these days. I'd rather go by the condition of the oil than stick to manufacturer's recommendations. Regards additives, I believe most of the stuff on the market is a waste of space but Slick50 engine oil additive isn't a bad product. I've used it and noticed engine noise was reduced, especially during start-up, with no adverse effects. No idea about the gearbox stuff, never used it. It is true that cars can go long mileages without any major work. My point was that using Mobil 1 in the engine and g/box and Slick 50 g/box, and the change intervals I suggested, the engine and transmission is still as smooth as a new one, even after 100K miles. I have come across cars that have really clocked up the miles with the usual roughness after 70K. The original post was about roughness. I suggested how to maintain longevity and smoothness, which actually does work. My design engineer friends says that modern engines are designed to be smooth to 50K miles with normal servicing and decent oil, and some engines deteriorate rapidly in smoothness after that figure. He recommends fully synthetic oils. REGULAR OIL CHANGES WILL HAVE THE SAME EFFECT, it doesn't matter what the oil is, as long as it is the correct spec' for the engine. The oil does matter. The best available is fully synthetics like Mobil 1 and Shell Helix fully synthetics. These oils are much superior to normal mineral oils in just about every aspect. This is a know fact that is not open to question. So why are they not specified by the people who design / make the engines ? The makers specify an API rating. It is on the side of the can, Some makes do specify synthetic oils. IMM, you were proved wrong the last time you spouted this marketing bollox and you will be proved wrong again. You have me mixed up with someone else, and you are not the first on this news group to do so. I can't comment on Slick 50 engine treatment as I have never used it. As I looked after the engines and transmissions from new using the best oils available, I have never experienced roughness to say that something added stops it. And I have known vehicles that have gone 150.000 plus miles on nothing more than the makers recommended oils whilst being changed on or before the advised service intervals for the vehicles use. I am not disputing that. It is maintaining the smoothness and newness feel for as long as possible that is the point being made by me. And you are wrong, or are you in fact disputing what I said above ?! Wonder were IMM is ?.... To answer my own question, he seems to have morphed again :~( Keep asking yourself questions then :-) |
#45
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"Mark" wrote in message ... On Fri, 11 Feb 2005 21:27:33 +0000 (UTC), "Rick Hughes" wrote: "Mark" wrote in message .. . Hi I have a 10 year old Ford Escort with 92,000 miles on the clock. It's served me well but I need to get another 12 months/15,000 miles out of it before I replace it. Over the last 10,000 miles the gearbox has started to whine, nothing major but the frequency is particularly annoying, especially at motorway speeds. Is there any additive that would make an improvement or have I got to live with it? A friend suggested "molyslip", anyone tried this? Thanks Try a heavier oil in the box OK, so how do I get the old oil out? There's no drain plug on this model??? Reverse the car / van backwards up a slope to get the front of thr box lower than the back. It helps if the box is nice and warm after a good run. You can drain the oil through the plug with the extended nose below te reverse light switch, however, ensure its in neutral first- this is the reverse detent spring and rod as you say.. Un do and and withdraw the plug very slowly- you will release the springs tension before the threads are fully clear and be ready to catch the rod / spring as you withdraw the plug. Abit messy, but i used to do it this way on many a cvh equiped mk3 in yesteryear. Tim.. |
#46
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It was somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember "top gear" saying something like: From new, the gear oil should be dropped after 2K miles and replaced with Mobil 1 fully synthetic gear oil. Replace every 2nd service, that is approx every 2 years in most cars. Renew gear oil every second service? What a load of toss. You can use synthetic gear oil if you wish, but it's good for tens of thousands of miles of use. From new use Mobil 1, or similar, fully synthetic engine oil, and change as per makers recommendations. The oil can go longer, so it gives you leeway on service intervals. No one has a service 9K miles on the dot. No need to use the likes of Slick 50 in the engine if fully synthetic oil is used from new. Never use synthetic engine oil 'from new' as the thingymybobs won't bed in right. Move onto sythetics at the second oil change. Really, your advice is misleading ********. -- Dave |
#47
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"Grimly Curmudgeon" wrote in message ... It was somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the drugs began to take hold. I remember "top gear" saying something like: From new, the gear oil should be dropped after 2K miles and replaced with Mobil 1 fully synthetic gear oil. Replace every 2nd service, that is approx every 2 years in most cars. Renew gear oil every second service? What a load of toss. You can use synthetic gear oil if you wish, but it's good for tens of thousands of miles of use. Well yes, about two tens, if you do it every second service. Some makes change gear oil every 27,000 miles. Sealed for life is nonsense as the original poster found out. So much for the makers idea of transmission lubrication. From new use Mobil 1, or similar, fully synthetic engine oil, and change as per makers recommendations. The oil can go longer, so it gives you leeway on service intervals. No one has a service 9K miles on the dot. No need to use the likes of Slick 50 in the engine if fully synthetic oil is used from new. Never use synthetic engine oil 'from new' as the thingymybobs won't bed in right. Move onto sythetics at the second oil change. Well after the run in, which obvious, well not some some, which is about 1,000 miles. You could drop the gear and engine oil at 2K miles, all at the same time. Really, your advice is misleading ********. Say that to my auto design engineer friend and he may be tad amused. |
#48
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top gear wrote:
I think the S may have stood for synthetic. It may have been replaced by Spirax GSX or ASX gear oils. I would check with the Shell technical department first to be sure. http://www.shell.com/home/Framework?...ml/iwgen/zzz_l hn.html&FC3=/global/shell_for_businesses/oils_lubricants/spirax/product_page s/spirax_gsx_asx_ga_0209.html That seems to claim it is for truck axles... It is possible the S stood for Subaru, IIRC they said it was an oil specially formulated in collaboration with the manufacturer to fix a problem with the gearbox on the Justy. A web search turns up a few pages -mostly foreign language, but one here http://www.actinia.si/client/index.p...articles&ID=48 lists a Gear Oil S and a "SL" - both mentioning Subaru. -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
#49
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"top gear" wrote in message ... ":::Jerry::::" wrote in message ... snip So why are they not specified by the people who design / make the engines ? The makers specify an API rating. It is on the side of the can, Some makes do specify synthetic oils. I know that, but it doesn't answer the question as to why the makers don't spec' full synthetic oils if their engines would benefit from the use of such oils... IMM, you were proved wrong the last time you spouted this marketing bollox and you will be proved wrong again. You have me mixed up with someone else, and you are not the first on this news group to do so. Well, you certainly quack like him.... |
#50
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:::Jerry:::: wrote:
Wonder were IMM is ?.... To answer my own question, he seems to have morphed again :~( Don't think so, just look at the evidence: top gear can string together a coherent sentence with comprehensible grammar, and use long words with their correct meaning obviously understood, and he has not resorted to snipping or insulting you yet... can't be IMM! ;-) -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
#51
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In article .com,
StealthUK wrote: The most important thing is that people use a decent quality oil and check it regularly. Absolutely. Which makes additives a waste of money. If an 'additive' was needed, a decent quality oil would already have it. -- *I started out with nothing, and I still have most of it. Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#52
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In article ,
:::Jerry:::: wrote: I'd like to see some proof that this has any advantages at all. While it may not cost much, IMHO it's just a waste of money and resources. The point is, you are getting rid of impurities that otherwise have to be filtered. If the oil still look clean, I will agree that there is little point, but those cases are rare. But oil is designed to hold some contaminates in suspension, so the colour is nothing to go by. A diesel will have 'dirty' oil after the first start. For it to be of any real benefit - and I dispute this - it would have to be from when the vehicle is new, and how many keep a new car until it's worn out? Well, replacing a car just because it's X number of years old is what I call a waste of money and resources !.. :~) The waste of money for most is buying a *new* car of any type, given how fast they lose money in the first year or so. -- *I love cats...they taste just like chicken. Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#53
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In article ,
top gear wrote: REGULAR OIL CHANGES WILL HAVE THE SAME EFFECT, it doesn't matter what the oil is, as long as it is the correct spec' for the engine. The oil does matter. The best available is fully synthetics like Mobil 1 and Shell Helix fully synthetics. These oils are much superior to normal mineral oils in just about every aspect. This is a know fact that is not open to question. Only if your vehicle is designed for the longer service life of such oils. Using them, and changing them at 'dino' intervals hasn't shown them to have any advantages over a good quality non or semi synthetic. -- *Seen it all, done it all, can't remember most of it. Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#54
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In article ,
top gear wrote: Renew gear oil every second service? What a load of toss. You can use synthetic gear oil if you wish, but it's good for tens of thousands of miles of use. Well yes, about two tens, if you do it every second service. Some makes change gear oil every 27,000 miles. Sealed for life is nonsense as the original poster found out. So much for the makers idea of transmission lubrication. IMM is alive and well. -- *A picture may be worth a thousand words, but it uses up a thousand times more memory. Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#55
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"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message ... In article , :::Jerry:::: wrote: I'd like to see some proof that this has any advantages at all. While it may not cost much, IMHO it's just a waste of money and resources. The point is, you are getting rid of impurities that otherwise have to be filtered. If the oil still look clean, I will agree that there is little point, but those cases are rare. But oil is designed to hold some contaminates in suspension, so the colour is nothing to go by. A diesel will have 'dirty' oil after the first start. And that contamination doesn't go else where, either via the pump or via splash ? Why do you think that oil is best drained when warm and thus more fluid.... What I'm saying is that rather than spend money on snake oil additives it would be better to change the normal (recommended) oil more frequently IYSWIM. |
#56
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"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message ... In article , top gear wrote: snip Well yes, about two tens, if you do it every second service. Some makes change gear oil every 27,000 miles. Sealed for life is nonsense as the original poster found out. So much for the makers idea of transmission lubrication. IMM is alive and well. Yes, talk of his Usenet death has been greatly exaggerated. :~( |
#57
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"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message ... In article , top gear wrote: REGULAR OIL CHANGES WILL HAVE THE SAME EFFECT, it doesn't matter what the oil is, as long as it is the correct spec' for the engine. The oil does matter. The best available is fully synthetics like Mobil 1 and Shell Helix fully synthetics. These oils are much superior to normal mineral oils in just about every aspect. This is a know fact that is not open to question. Only if your vehicle is designed for the longer service life of such oils. Using them, and changing them at 'dino' intervals hasn't shown them to have any advantages over a good quality non or semi synthetic. Ordinary mineral oils can be seriously degraded after 4K miles, while fully synthetics will easily surpass the makers recommended change intervals with only slight degradation, or none at all. Only a little research reveals this. As I have said previously, this point is not open to question, it is vox pop. Anyone saying the opposite usually has some financial gain somewhere in order to do so. |
#58
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On Fri, 11 Feb 2005 23:29:54 +0000, Doctor Evil wrote:
I might be able to look up the oil if anyones interested, but it wasn't excessively expensive, just you won't get it in Halfords. Tim Yes, what make and grade? IIRC (big if, this was like 10 years ago) it was probably Millers 75w90. Think I got it at Cannons in Clapham, London, but that's a big if too as I went there for many random things at that time. Think I might have even used "proper" flushing oil, but it could just as well been I stuck a couple of pints of diesel in the box and went for a very light drive round the block. Tim |
#59
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In article ,
:::Jerry:::: wrote: But oil is designed to hold some contaminates in suspension, so the colour is nothing to go by. A diesel will have 'dirty' oil after the first start. And that contamination doesn't go else where, either via the pump or via splash ? Why do you think that oil is best drained when warm and thus more fluid.... What I'm saying is that rather than spend money on snake oil additives it would be better to change the normal (recommended) oil more frequently IYSWIM. What I'm saying is that engines last longer and longer despite even longer oil change intervals. Ie, the makers know what they're talking about. Both oils and engine manufacturing techniques - and or materials - are improving all the time, so there really is no need to change oil more frequently than the maker's recommendation. So use the maker's recommended oil and service intervals, and don't thrash the engine until the oil is hot, and the engine will outlive the rest of the car, in most cases. -- *A conclusion is the place where you got tired of thinking * Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#60
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In article ,
top gear wrote: Ordinary mineral oils can be seriously degraded after 4K miles, What modern car has 'ordinary' mineral oil as the maker's recommendation? Or '4K' oil change intervals? And what fool would think of using a base mineral oil in a modern car? while fully synthetics will easily surpass the makers recommended change intervals with only slight degradation, or none at all. Err, if the maker recommends a fully synthetic, they'll also recommend an 'extended' change interval... Only a little research reveals this. Might do if you knew what you're talking about. As I have said previously, this point is not open to question, it is vox pop. Anyone saying the opposite usually has some financial gain somewhere in order to do so. Try reading this research accurately and applying it to the thread. If you're not IMM, you're the new one. -- *I wonder how much deeper the ocean would be without sponges. Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#61
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In article ,
Tim S wrote: Think I got it at Cannons in Clapham, London, Used to be my favourite supplier. Sadly, they appear to have got rid of most of the decent staff - and most of the customers too. Which came first, I don't know. -- *Failure is not an option. It's bundled with your software. Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#62
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"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message ... snip What I'm saying is that engines last longer and longer despite even longer oil change intervals. Ie, the makers know what they're talking about. Both oils and engine manufacturing techniques - and or materials - are improving all the time, so there really is no need to change oil more frequently than the maker's recommendation. snip You have to remember that makers have extended the service intervals to appeal to the 'Fleet' / contract hire market, they don't actually care what the mechanics are like post X [[1] mileage as the car will have gone though the auction market by then in most cases. anything from 12k to 50k in most cases |
#63
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":::Jerry::::" wrote in message ... "Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message ... snip What I'm saying is that engines last longer and longer despite even longer oil change intervals. Ie, the makers know what they're talking about. Both oils and engine manufacturing techniques - and or materials - are improving all the time, so there really is no need to change oil more frequently than the maker's recommendation. snip You have to remember that makers have extended the service intervals to appeal to the 'Fleet' / contract hire market, they don't actually care what the mechanics are like post X [[1] mileage as the car will have gone though the auction market by then in most cases. anything from 12k to 50k in most cases Very good point and hit the target. I did point out that cars are designed to have a life of 50K miles before harshness is apparent using average grade mineral oils. Use the best oils, full synthetics, in the engine and transmission after run in, and change the transmission oil approx 20K miles then the newness feel and sound of the drivetrain will stay for most of its life. Service cost are designed to appeal to the company car market, who ditch cars after 3 years maximum. I find that in countries that do not have a company car culture, people are more aware of using high quality lubricants in new cars as it protects their expensive investment. Company car fleet runners in Britain don't care. In Britain, anyone buying an ex fleet car expects the car to have been abused, and the fleet market accounts for a considerbale share of the new car market. |
#64
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"top gear" wrote in message ... ":::Jerry::::" wrote in message ... "Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message ... snip What I'm saying is that engines last longer and longer despite even longer oil change intervals. Ie, the makers know what they're talking about. Both oils and engine manufacturing techniques - and or materials - are improving all the time, so there really is no need to change oil more frequently than the maker's recommendation. snip You have to remember that makers have extended the service intervals to appeal to the 'Fleet' / contract hire market, they don't actually care what the mechanics are like post X [[1] mileage as the car will have gone though the auction market by then in most cases. anything from 12k to 50k in most cases Very good point and hit the target. I did point out that cars are designed to have a life of 50K miles before harshness is apparent using average grade mineral oils. Use the best oils, full synthetics, in the engine and transmission after run in, and change the transmission oil approx 20K miles then the newness feel and sound of the drivetrain will stay for most of its life. Service cost are designed to appeal to the company car market, who ditch cars after 3 years maximum. You are missing the point, the same can be true even if the recommended oils and change periods are used, it is also true that engines and transmissions can fail even if the best oils are used, life of components has far more to do with how the car is driven than what oil might or might not have been used - keep trying to 'crash' through the gears and any transmission will have it's life expectancy shortened. Rather than spend extra money on expensive 'snake oils' you are just as likely to improve the life expectancy of engine components by using the recommended oils and just change them more frequently. I don't agree that a gearbox that has been treated with respect needs it's oil changed to a (so called) higher spec', the biggest wear points in any gearbox are the syncro cones and as they use friction to do their job no oil or additive is going to help - indeed some oils or additives can make things worse and thus cause far more wear in other parts of the gearbox due to people trying to force the syncro cones to engage rather than slip past each other... Service (mileage / time period) points were changed to save servicing cost, not due to improved components / oils as their is far more to a proper service than changing oils and filters. |
#65
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":::Jerry::::" wrote in message ... You are missing the point, the same can be true even if the recommended oils and change periods are used, it is also true that engines and transmissions can fail even if the best oils are used, life of components has far more to do with how the car is driven than what oil might or might not have been used - keep trying to 'crash' through the gears and any transmission will have it's life expectancy shortened. The point is not vehicle abuse. Rather than spend extra money on expensive 'snake oils' you are just as likely to improve the life expectancy of engine components by using the recommended oils and just change them more frequently. Some people seem to think that makers only recommend cheap mineral oils unless otherwise stated. That is not the case. Makers recommend a viscosity and API rating. Some poor oils may meet that and most high quality full synthetics meet and exceed the API by a long way. The difference in quality and protection of the oils at each end of the price scale is marked. Full synthetic oil is not snake oil. Its benefits over run of the mill mineral oils is beyond question, and I have no intention of going down the synthetic vs mineral argument. My automotive engineering friends, not mechanics, say that Slick 50 in the gear box will prevent wear. I believe them. :-) Slick 50 g/box treatment is not a one off treatment like the engine version. It has to be in at all times. I don't agree that a gearbox that has been treated with respect needs it's oil changed to a (so called) higher spec', You put the spec in the makers say. It is the quality of the oil that counts. Full synthetics are miles ahead of mineral oils. I don't believe that a gearbox is sealed for life, unless it has an oil filtration system and full synthetic from new. Gear oil "does" deteriorate with use, that is certain. Some makers specify changes at 27K miles, about every 3rd service or roughly 3 years. Changing at every 2nd service and using the best synthetics is very, very wise to keep that smooth newness for the majority of the cars life. It does work, I assure you. |
#66
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"John Rumm" wrote in message ... top gear wrote: I think the S may have stood for synthetic. It may have been replaced by Spirax GSX or ASX gear oils. I would check with the Shell technical department first to be sure. http://www.shell.com/home/Framework?...ml/iwgen/zzz_l hn.html&FC3=/global/shell_for_businesses/oils_lubricants/spirax/product_page s/spirax_gsx_asx_ga_0209.html That seems to claim it is for truck axles... The viscosity is clearly for cars too. Spirax GSX 75W-80 API GL-4/ Spirax ASX 75W-90 API GL-5/ It is possible the S stood for Subaru, IIRC they said it was an oil specially formulated in collaboration with the manufacturer to fix a problem with the gearbox on the Justy. A web search turns up a few pages -mostly foreign language, but one here http://www.actinia.si/client/index.p...articles&ID=48 lists a Gear Oil S and a "SL" - both mentioning Subaru. Interesting. -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
#67
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"top gear" wrote in message ... ":::Jerry::::" wrote in message ... You are missing the point, the same can be true even if the recommended oils and change periods are used, it is also true that engines and transmissions can fail even if the best oils are used, life of components has far more to do with how the car is driven than what oil might or might not have been used - keep trying to 'crash' through the gears and any transmission will have it's life expectancy shortened. The point is not vehicle abuse. Yes it is. If a vehicle is not abused it will rust away before the mechanical (engine / transmission) parts wear out even if only serviced as per the makers recommendations. Rather than spend extra money on expensive 'snake oils' you are just as likely to improve the life expectancy of engine components by using the recommended oils and just change them more frequently. Some people seem to think that makers only recommend cheap mineral oils unless otherwise stated. That is not the case. Makers recommend a viscosity and API rating. Some poor oils may meet that and most high quality full synthetics meet and exceed the API by a long way. The difference in quality and protection of the oils at each end of the price scale is marked. You are talking marketing clap-trap and you know it, if the recommended oils are use the vehicle is good these days for at least 100,000 plus miles and with some makes engines and transmisions will achieve thos mileages even if those recomondations are not kept to. I expect you also believe that using aero-spec air / water hoses improves performance, or that simply fitting a K&N filter boosted performance.... Full synthetic oil is not snake oil. Its benefits over run of the mill mineral oils is beyond question, and I have no intention of going down the synthetic vs mineral argument. No, because you will loose that argument at every point, also full synthetic oil is most certainly snake oil when people advise it's use in engines that are not designed to need it. My automotive engineering friends, not mechanics, say that Slick 50 in the gear box will prevent wear. I believe them. :-) Slick 50 g/box treatment is not a one off treatment like the engine version. It has to be in at all times. So what do they do, design engines, gearboxes, body-shells, doors, seats, dash-boards, just what is their expertise that allows them to make an across the board statement like that and if they are correct why don't their fellow engineers specify it's use in the factory service documents ?... I don't agree that a gearbox that has been treated with respect needs it's oil changed to a (so called) higher spec', You put the spec in the makers say. That is what I've been saying you don't need slick-50 or any other snake oil, just what the unit has been designed to use ! It is the quality of the oil that counts. Full synthetics are miles ahead of mineral oils. I don't believe that a gearbox is sealed for life, unless it has an oil filtration system and full synthetic from new. Gear oil "does" deteriorate with use, that is certain. Some makers specify changes at 27K miles, about every 3rd service or roughly 3 years. Oh and that's why they don't fit drain plugs then - to make life easy when they expect the oil to be drained.... Changing at every 2nd service and using the best synthetics is very, very wise to keep that smooth newness for the majority of the cars life. It does work, I assure you. You carry on wasting your money on 'snake oils' then, those with 1/2 a brain will use what the components has been designed to use, be that mineral, semi synthetic or fully synthetic along with any additives. If these snake oil additives were so good why doesn't the oil companies include them in their oil blends anyway and why don't the vehicle designers specify their use ?.... Ho, hummmm ! |
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":::Jerry::::" wrote in message ... "top gear" wrote in message ... ":::Jerry::::" wrote in message ... You are missing the point, the same can be true even if the recommended oils and change periods are used, it is also true that engines and transmissions can fail even if the best oils are used, life of components has far more to do with how the car is driven than what oil might or might not have been used - keep trying to 'crash' through the gears and any transmission will have it's life expectancy shortened. The point is not vehicle abuse. Yes it is. If you read the thread you will find it is not. I read the rest of your post and it is clear you should focus on the points at hand. |
#69
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"top gear" wrote in message ... ":::Jerry::::" wrote in message ... "top gear" wrote in message ... ":::Jerry::::" wrote in message ... You are missing the point, the same can be true even if the recommended oils and change periods are used, it is also true that engines and transmissions can fail even if the best oils are used, life of components has far more to do with how the car is driven than what oil might or might not have been used - keep trying to 'crash' through the gears and any transmission will have it's life expectancy shortened. The point is not vehicle abuse. Yes it is. If you read the thread you will find it is not. I read the rest of your post and it is clear you should focus on the points at hand. Not maintaining a vehicle correctly is vehicle abuse, so it is very much the point in question. I also see that you can't answer the direct question asked about your 'automotive engineering friends' ?... |
#70
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":::Jerry::::" wrote in message ... "top gear" wrote in message ... I also see that you can't answer the direct question asked about your 'automotive engineering friends' ?... Engines, transmission and engine management systems for the large auto makers, like Ford, Rover, GM, Renault, and the rest. A lot of the design work of the large companies is farmed out to specialists. They know their stuff. |
#71
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"top gear" wrote in message ... ":::Jerry::::" wrote in message ... "top gear" wrote in message ... I also see that you can't answer the direct question asked about your 'automotive engineering friends' ?... Engines, transmission and engine management systems for the large auto makers, like Ford, Rover, GM, Renault, and the rest. A lot of the design work of the large companies is farmed out to specialists. They know their stuff. So they are electronic engineers [1] then, hardly qualified to comment on oils !... [1] anything from full design engineers to PCB CAD operators to equipment case designers etc. |
#73
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top gear wrote:
Full synthetic oil is not snake oil. Its benefits over run of the mill mineral oils is beyond question, The point you are missing, is that whilst snake and full mineral oils may well be better, are the standard and much cheaper oils GOOD ENOUGH. Just about any modern oil - synthetic, mineral or whatever - exceeds the sort of crap we used to chuck in a mini transaxle in the 60's, and just about any gearbox is built to better tolerances with better a seals and out of better materials. All gear oil has to do is keep teh shear faces of teh gears apart under stress. The more stress, teh more critical teh oil has to be, and teh hiotter the box gets, teh more crirtical. So obviously a top notch gear oil that won't break down at high temps in say a rally car, is good news, but in boxes not under that sort of stress, its very arguable whether it makes any difference whatsoever. Modern teeth are much better hardened, and modern seals are much better organised. |
#74
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In article ,
:::Jerry:::: wrote: What I'm saying is that engines last longer and longer despite even longer oil change intervals. Ie, the makers know what they're talking about. Both oils and engine manufacturing techniques - and or materials - are improving all the time, so there really is no need to change oil more frequently than the maker's recommendation. snip You have to remember that makers have extended the service intervals to appeal to the 'Fleet' / contract hire market, they don't actually care what the mechanics are like post X [[1] mileage as the car will have gone though the auction market by then in most cases. In which case engines would be failing earlier than before due to oil related problems. This simply *isn't* the case. They last longer than ever. Failures like cambelts and head gaskets excepted. Strange the way some think that oil changes are a major cost in a car but ignore cambelt changes which in some cases can cost hundreds. anything from 12k to 50k in most cases The servicing costs over 50k miles is peanuts compared to the deprecation. -- *Atheism is a non-prophet organization. Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#75
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Dave Plowman (News) wrote: What I'm saying is that engines last longer and longer despite even longer oil change intervals. Ie, the makers know what they're talking about. Both oils and engine manufacturing techniques - and or materials - are improving all the time, so there really is no need to change oil more frequently than the maker's recommendation. So use the maker's recommended oil and service intervals, and don't thrash the engine until the oil is hot, and the engine will outlive the rest of the car, in most cases. Unfortunately, this is not the experience of the fleet users. They are whingeing regularly about having to fit new engines at 40K miles when extended oil changes are used. There is a tendency for the fleet driver to never look under the bonnet, so the fact that the oil has disappeared through the tailpipe doesn't register, with unfortunate consequences. God help you if you buy one of these in the second hand market! The main reason for extended oil change intervals is to reduce the servicing costs as a marketing bull point. Jerry and the Americans are correct, change the oil very regularly, and you get good engine life with almost any engine oil under normal driving conditions. I've seen much greater than 100K miles on a Ford Popular 1200cc van used in London, the oil was sae10 and changed every 1K miles. Normal engine life with 6K mile oil changes was about 50K IIRC. Before the point is made that it's a low performance engine, I would add that I've also experienced 150k miles on a 2.7L Honda engine run on bog standard reclaimed 20/50 but changed every 5K miles. Regards Capitol |
#76
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"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message ... top gear wrote: Full synthetic oil is not snake oil. Its benefits over run of the mill mineral oils is beyond question, The point you are missing, is that whilst snake and full mineral oils may well be better, are the standard and much cheaper oils GOOD ENOUGH. I'm not missing any point. I'm sure cheap mineral oils are "good enough", and that is about it. It will stop the engine from seizing up. Of course all oils are better than 1962 oils and that is not the point as I am comparing the current crop available, comparing like with like. The original point I made which I have to keep coming back to, as many here don't get it and fly off on tangents about body panel rust or other unrelated matters, is how to maintain the longevity of a drive train and the smooth newness feel and sound. It was simple, use the best oils, which just happen to be full synthetics and change the gear oil at more frequent intervals. It is not overkill. It is not oil only made for racing cars. It is thin at low temperatures and gets to the bearings, especially the top end of an engine, in about a second after the crank turns on a cold morning, which normal thick mineral oil will not. It is very difficult to compress and keeps an engine very clean. It prolongs a cat as an extra. If you really want an engine to last use an oil compressor, available in the USA, so only available here by mail order from the US. It maintains oil compression in a vessel. When the crank starts it spurts the oil right through the galleries to the dry bearings, far faster than the oil pump can do. Also use a thermos bottle. Used on the US version of the Toyota Prius and was used on a SAAB model. It retains heat from the coolant. When the engine is started, stored hot water is injected into the cylinder head giving instant warm up and heating inside the car, avoiding any choke. |
#77
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In article ,
top gear wrote: Full synthetic oil is not snake oil. No one here has said it is. Its benefits over run of the mill mineral oils is beyond question, and I have no intention of going down the synthetic vs mineral argument. No one here is arguing this either - although the main benefits of synthetic are longer service life. Not better lubrication than other oils when both are performing within spec. My automotive engineering friends, not mechanics, say that Slick 50 in the gear box will prevent wear. I believe them. :-) Now you're into snake oil. There is no truly independant evidence that any aftermarket oil additives improve the performance of good quality oil. And equally as much that it may actually cause damage. And any *true* engineer would agree with this. Slick 50 g/box treatment is not a one off treatment like the engine version. It has to be in at all times. True ********. You are IMM and I claim my 5 pounds. -- *I went to school to become a wit, only got halfway through. Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#78
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"top gear" wrote in
: It is very difficult to compress and keeps an engine very clean. It prolongs a cat as an extra. If you really want an engine to last use an oil compressor, available in the USA, so only available here by mail order from the US. It maintains oil compression in a vessel. When the crank starts it spurts the oil right through the galleries to the dry bearings, far faster than the oil pump can do. Sorry, I think that I have lost it here. You buy synthetic oil which is "very difficult to compress". Then you buy an oil compressor to compress this "very difficult to compress" oil? Is that right? Is synthetic oil any less compressible than 'ordinary' oil? (As a Saab driver, I am used to using orange gnat's ****. Works fine. Labelled Saab so I guess that it must be recommended by them.) -- Rod www.annalaurie.co.uk |
#79
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"Rod Hewitt" wrote in message ... "top gear" wrote in : It is very difficult to compress and keeps an engine very clean. It prolongs a cat as an extra. If you really want an engine to last use an oil compressor, available in the USA, so only available here by mail order from the US. It maintains oil compression in a vessel. When the crank starts it spurts the oil right through the galleries to the dry bearings, far faster than the oil pump can do. Sorry, I think that I have lost it here. You buy synthetic oil which is "very difficult to compress". Then you buy an oil compressor to compress this "very difficult to compress" oil? Is that right? It keeps oil compressed in a container, so that when the crank moves oil is injected into the galleries. Overnight the oil runs down into the sump leaving the galleries and engine upper end dry. That is one reason why most engine wear is in the start/warm up stages. Is synthetic oil any less compressible than 'ordinary' oil? Very difficult to compress (As a Saab driver, I am used to using orange gnat's ****. Works fine. Labelled Saab so I guess that it must be recommended by them.) If it is very runny, it is probably synthetic. Rod www.annalaurie.co.uk |
#80
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On Mon, 14 Feb 2005 13:18:43 -0000, "top gear"
wrote: My automotive engineering friends, not mechanics, say that Slick 50 in the gear box will prevent wear. Do they also suggest magnets on the fuel line? -- Peter Parry. http://www.wpp.ltd.uk/ |
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