Hi, I'm looking into moving house and I've found a property which is
in need of all round attention (new kitchen,bathroom,carpets, windows
etc). The house is a small 4 bed detached (only one double bedroom)
with a detached double length garage to the side about 3 or 4 feet
away from the property.

I was thinking if I had to redo every thing anyway, maybe I could
extend the downstairs out to the garage to make what's now storage
space into real rooms & extend the upstairs over the garage to make
bedrooms of a decent size.

Now, I have no idea whether this would be allowed or not. Is there a
way for me to get something like "approval in principle" before
actually buying the house???

It's a bit scary to think that I'll be takign the side of the house
off! How does this get done without the whole thing falling down?!

Steve

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
adder wrote:

Hi, I'm looking into moving house and I've found a property which is
in need of all round attention (new kitchen,bathroom,carpets, windows
etc). The house is a small 4 bed detached (only one double bedroom)
with a detached double length garage to the side about 3 or 4 feet
away from the property.

I was thinking if I had to redo every thing anyway, maybe I could
extend the downstairs out to the garage to make what's now storage
space into real rooms & extend the upstairs over the garage to make
bedrooms of a decent size.

Now, I have no idea whether this would be allowed or not. Is there a
way for me to get something like "approval in principle" before
actually buying the house???

It's a bit scary to think that I'll be takign the side of the house
off! How does this get done without the whole thing falling down?!

Steve

You need to address this from two angles - Planning and Building Regs.

First Planning: Have an informal chat with a Planning Officer at your local
council. You should get an *indication* about whether what you intend would
be likely to get planning permission. That's the easy bit!

Building Regs and structural issues are another matter! If you are going to
build on top of a single storey garage, the foundations must be capable of
supporting it based on *today's* standards. It is distinctly possible that
if the garage were being built *now*, the building inspector would insist on
deeper foundations than it has actually got, anyway - so putting another
storey on could be a *real* problem.

It is feasible to remove a substantial chunk from the side of a house, and
support the upper floor with a suitably sized RSJ. *But* this will change
the distribution of loads being carried by the foundations - and can only be
done if the foundations are adequate.

Start by having a word with a Building Inspector at your local council to
find out what you would have to do to satisfy them. You will probably have
to pay a Structural Engineer to advise you - and the house and garage
foundations will need exposing to determine depth, thickness and sub-soil
characteristics.

You need to do all of this *before* making an offer on the house!

[The alternative, is to buy it just for the plot - and to demolish the
existing house and start again. Even so, you'll need to satisfy yourself
that you'll be able to get Planning Permission.]
--
Cheers,
Set Square
______
Please reply to newsgroup. Reply address is Black Hole!

Now, I have no idea whether this would be allowed or not. Is there a
way for me to get something like "approval in principle" before
actually buying the house???

You can apply for planning permission before buying the property. You need
the permission of the current owner and bag of gold for the council. You
might even be able to get rapid outline approval before purchase and fill in
the details afterwards, although I don't know if you need to have a much
larger application to be allowed to do that.

As for extending over the garage, it will probably be simpler to bulldoze
the existing and rebuild that section. The underpinning required to the
garage to be allowed an additional storey would likely be more expensive
than a scrape and dig. You can also rebuild using the appropriate bricks to
match the house, cavity walls, insulation and fireproofing (if you're
keeping it as a garage).

It's a bit scary to think that I'll be takign the side of the house
off! How does this get done without the whole thing falling down?!

Anything's possible with the right structural engineer and enough cash.
It'll involve a lot of steelwork, though, which may intrude slightly into
the living space.

Christian.

In article ,
Christian McArdle wrote:
You can apply for planning permission before buying the property.
You need the permission of the current owner

You can apply for PP for any piece of land without the consent of the
current owner: in a case I know of a local amenity society put in
their own application for a site to prove that there was a suitable
alternative use (if mere things like finance were ignored). You do
have to serve a notice on the existing owner stating that you have
made the application.

Having said this, if you're the prospective purchaser it makes sense
to get the current owner's support. Also IIRC there is some provision
that lets a LA refuse to entertain a planning application if there is
no possible chance of it being implemented - so there's no point in
applying to turn Buck House into a refugee hostel.

--
Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk
Free SEDBUK boiler database browser http://www.sda.co.uk/qsedbuk.htm

"Christian McArdle" wrote in message .net...
Now, I have no idea whether this would be allowed or not. Is there a
way for me to get something like "approval in principle" before
actually buying the house???

You can apply for planning permission before buying the property. You need
the permission of the current owner

No you don't! I know of a case of someone getting planning permission
for an extension that went onto the neighbours garden, without the
neighbours knowledge. It was cock-up rather than conspiracy in this
case.

MBQ

"Christian McArdle" wrote in message .net...
Now, I have no idea whether this would be allowed or not. Is there a
way for me to get something like "approval in principle" before
actually buying the house???

You can apply for planning permission before buying the property. You need
the permission of the current owner and bag of gold for the council.

Yes, but of course if permission is granted the house/land then
suddenly becomes worth significantly more. So doing that before
purchase is like shooting yourself in the foot.


Regards, NT

x-no-archive: yes
N. Thornton wrote in message
om...
"Christian McArdle" wrote in message
.net...
Now, I have no idea whether this would be allowed or not. Is there a
way for me to get something like "approval in principle" before
actually buying the house???

You can apply for planning permission before buying the property. You
need
the permission of the current owner and bag of gold for the council.

Yes, but of course if permission is granted the house/land then
suddenly becomes worth significantly more. So doing that before
purchase is like shooting yourself in the foot.


Regards, NT

You don't need the owner's permission at all - if you don't own the land,
all you have to do is serve notice (on a pro-forma) on the owner to tell him
you are applying for pp to extend his house. The application forms should
explain everything.

"Christian McArdle" wrote in message .net...

As for extending over the garage, it will probably be simpler to bulldoze
the existing and rebuild that section. The underpinning required to the
garage to be allowed an additional storey would likely be more expensive
than a scrape and dig. You can also rebuild using the appropriate bricks to
match the house, cavity walls, insulation and fireproofing (if you're
keeping it as a garage).


Any idea on costs??? I know that's like how long is a piece of string
but there's another house nearby that's 45k more & is already bigger.
I'm guessing the house is less than 20years old & more than likely the
detached garage would need to come down & all that side rebuilt. I'd
have to take walls off at least the downstairs to open up the rooms.
I can do things like drywalling, flooring, wiring, plumbing, windows,
roof, etc myself so would "just" need someone to build the structure &
plan it all out of course.

In article , N.
Thornton wrote:
Yes, but of course if permission is granted the house/land then
suddenly becomes worth significantly more. So doing that before
purchase is like shooting yourself in the foot.

Yes but if you buy without PP you are gambling on whether you will
get it or not - and the higher the possibility the more this will be
factored into the price as hope value. If you were (say) a potential
self-builder would you get a mortgage on a piece of land on the basis
that you ought to get PP? Somehow I doubt it.

--
Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk
Free SEDBUK boiler database browser http://www.sda.co.uk/qsedbuk.htm

Tony Bryer wrote in message ...
In article , N.
Thornton wrote:

Yes, but of course if permission is granted the house/land then
suddenly becomes worth significantly more. So doing that before
purchase is like shooting yourself in the foot.

Yes but if you buy without PP you are gambling on whether you will
get it or not - and the higher the possibility the more this will be
factored into the price as hope value. If you were (say) a potential
self-builder would you get a mortgage on a piece of land on the basis
that you ought to get PP? Somehow I doubt it.


Indeed - this is the classic quandry with buying to build. If youre
confident you could resell the place for what you paid for it, buying
at an attractive price with the risk of not gettting planning has its
attractions, as well as its issues of course. All we can do is help
ensure the buyers eyes are open.


Regards, NT

In article , N.
Thornton writes
Tony Bryer wrote in message news:VA.0000294f.004bc71a@d
elme.sda.co.uk...
In article , N.
Thornton wrote:

Yes, but of course if permission is granted the house/land then
suddenly becomes worth significantly more. So doing that before
purchase is like shooting yourself in the foot.

Yes but if you buy without PP you are gambling on whether you will
get it or not - and the higher the possibility the more this will be
factored into the price as hope value. If you were (say) a potential
self-builder would you get a mortgage on a piece of land on the basis
that you ought to get PP? Somehow I doubt it.


Indeed - this is the classic quandry with buying to build. If youre
confident you could resell the place for what you paid for it, buying
at an attractive price with the risk of not gettting planning has its
attractions, as well as its issues of course. All we can do is help
ensure the buyers eyes are open.

I think an earlier poster has the best idea, go into the local planning
office with a sketch and ask informally whether its a goer or not, it
won't cost anything and can be done anonymously

--
David

In article , N.
Thornton wrote:
Indeed - this is the classic quandry with buying to build. If youre
confident you could resell the place for what you paid for it,

That's unlikely because you're buying with a x% chance of getting PP
and selling with a planning refusal and the fact you're selling would
suggest that the reasons for the refusal are more or less insuperable.

--
Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk
Free SEDBUK boiler database browser http://www.sda.co.uk/qsedbuk.htm

Tony Bryer wrote in message ...
In article , N.
Thornton wrote:
Indeed - this is the classic quandry with buying to build. If youre
confident you could resell the place for what you paid for it,

That's unlikely because you're buying with a x% chance of getting PP
and selling with a planning refusal and the fact you're selling would
suggest that the reasons for the refusal are more or less insuperable.

which will have no effect whatsover on its resale value.


Regards, NT

(adder) wrote in message . com...
"Christian McArdle" wrote in message .net...

As for extending over the garage, it will probably be simpler to bulldoze
the existing and rebuild that section. The underpinning required to the
garage to be allowed an additional storey would likely be more expensive
than a scrape and dig. You can also rebuild using the appropriate bricks to
match the house, cavity walls, insulation and fireproofing (if you're
keeping it as a garage).



Have you looked around the local area to see whether anyone else has
done anything similar. In our area it seems popular to extend
end-terraces...our property has planning permission, and there a
couple of others already done.
You might even be able to ask the owners of such a property how much
it cost for a ballpark figure.

In article , N.
Thornton wrote:
That's unlikely because you're buying with a x% chance of getting
PP and selling with a planning refusal and the fact you're
selling would suggest that the reasons for the refusal are more
or less insuperable.

which will have no effect whatsover on its resale value.

If you would pay just as much for a site where PP has been refused (a
refusal not seen as being able to be overcome by an appeal or a minor
rework resubmission) and thus setting a precedent for any future
planning application I'm sure there are loads of estate agents who
would love to meet you.

--
Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk
Free SEDBUK boiler database browser http://www.sda.co.uk/qsedbuk.htm

Tony Bryer wrote in message ...
In article , N.
Thornton wrote:
That's unlikely because you're buying with a x% chance of getting
PP and selling with a planning refusal and the fact you're
selling would suggest that the reasons for the refusal are more
or less insuperable.

which will have no effect whatsover on its resale value.

If you would pay just as much for a site where PP has been refused (a
refusal not seen as being able to be overcome by an appeal or a minor
rework resubmission) and thus setting a precedent for any future
planning application I'm sure there are loads of estate agents who
would love to meet you.

Do feel free to explain to us why a 3 bed semi with planning for a
huge extension refused is worth less on the open market than the same
3 bed semi when PP has not been applied for.

The fact that 99% of buyers for said property will have no interest in
enlarging it does rather come into play, no? It wotn make any
difference to them whether PP has been applied for and refused or not.
AFAICS the only thing that would affect its value significantly is if
PP were granted: then certainly it would increase in value.

Regards, NT

In article , N.
Thornton wrote:
Do feel free to explain to us why a 3 bed semi with planning for a
huge extension refused is worth less on the open market than the
same 3 bed semi when PP has not been applied for.

The fact that 99% of buyers for said property will have no interest
in enlarging it does rather come into play, no? I

Given that about 50% (or so it seems) of houses round here have
extensions of some sort, it would seem pretty unlikely that 99% of
potential buyers would not consider the possibilities of extending,
and round here agents are always ready to point out "possibility of
extending STPP".

If you are making a planning application and a previous application
for something similar was refused you have a much harder job ahead of
you unless the reasons for the previous refusal were clearly set out
and are clearly satisfied by the current application.

If you are heading for a refusal and are not reasonably confident of
your chances of arguing an appeal it may be a better strategy to
withdraw the application than have a refusal on the planning history.

--
Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk
Free SEDBUK boiler database browser http://www.sda.co.uk/qsedbuk.htm

Tony Bryer wrote in message ...

Given that about 50% (or so it seems) of houses round here have
extensions of some sort, it would seem pretty unlikely that 99% of
potential buyers would not consider the possibilities of extending,
and round here agents are always ready to point out "possibility of
extending STPP".

That would change things: round here few places have been extended.
Then the risk for the OP is greater.


Regards, NT