Just about to re-wire my kitchen - I last did this in 1984, and could do
with a couple of pointers.

1). Regulations are bound to have changed since then - anyone know off-hand
the minimum distance from a power socket to either a sink/drainer or hob? I
have a feeling it's 30cm, but need to confirm this.

2). Also, when I originally built the kitchen, I had a stand-alone electric
cooker, for which I fitted an MK combined cooker switch/3 pin socket on it's
own 30amp supply, together with a flex outlet for the cooker.

The plan is to replace the cooker with an oven uint, and a separate hob
(both electric). I will be replacing the cooker switch with a new one to
match the style of the other ring main switch boxes in the kitchen.

The question is, can I still use one switch box, or do I need one each for
the hob and oven unit (the hob will be installed in the work surface above
the oven). Likewise, do I need 2 x 6mm flex outlets or can I connect the
hob to the oven unit? (They are both Neff appliances).

3.) Last (but not least) I fitted a King waste disposal unit to the sink
unit all those years ago, activated by a fused spur. Is this still the
preferred method of operation now, or is there some other means of
activating the device?

4). Oh, one other thing - our washing machine has a built in timer (which
is useful, because we are on economy 7 and can run the machine at night more
cheaply). The new machine (which doesn't have a timer) will be built into a
carcass, and plugged into a socket beneath the work surface, and the only
easy access to the power supply will be via a fused spur switch. Does
anyone know if it's possible to get a timer unit which can be fitted inside
a metal patress box?

Thanks for any ideas


Chris

On Sun, 9 May 2004 16:53:32 +0100, in uk.d-i-y "Chris Kaley"
strung together this:

Just about to re-wire my kitchen - I last did this in 1984, and could do
with a couple of pointers.

1). Regulations are bound to have changed since then - anyone know off-hand
the minimum distance from a power socket to either a sink/drainer or hob? I
have a feeling it's 30cm, but need to confirm this.

Correct, although I usually go for 300mm from a draining board and
600mm from a sink where possible.

The question is, can I still use one switch box, or do I need one each for
the hob and oven unit (the hob will be installed in the work surface above
the oven). Likewise, do I need 2 x 6mm flex outlets or can I connect the
hob to the oven unit? (They are both Neff appliances).

Depends on the ratings, if they're both under a total of around 30A
then yes, one switch into two outlets would be fine. If they're over
then it's 2 supplies you'll be wanting. I'd fit the hob supply switch
under the worktop in this case, unless you don't mind having another
switch above.

3.) Last (but not least) I fitted a King waste disposal unit to the sink
unit all those years ago, activated by a fused spur. Is this still the
preferred method of operation now, or is there some other means of
activating the device?

That's still an acceptable method.

4). Oh, one other thing - our washing machine has a built in timer (which
is useful, because we are on economy 7 and can run the machine at night more
cheaply). The new machine (which doesn't have a timer) will be built into a
carcass, and plugged into a socket beneath the work surface, and the only
easy access to the power supply will be via a fused spur switch. Does
anyone know if it's possible to get a timer unit which can be fitted inside
a metal patress box?

Try one of these in place of the spur.
http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_Ind...ater_Timers_1/
--

SJW
A.C.S. Ltd.

That's all really useful information, and all questions answered!

Thanks, Lurch

Chris
"Lurch" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 9 May 2004 16:53:32 +0100, in uk.d-i-y "Chris Kaley"
strung together this:

Just about to re-wire my kitchen - I last did this in 1984, and could do
with a couple of pointers.

1). Regulations are bound to have changed since then - anyone know
off-hand
the minimum distance from a power socket to either a sink/drainer or hob?
I
have a feeling it's 30cm, but need to confirm this.

Correct, although I usually go for 300mm from a draining board and
600mm from a sink where possible.

The question is, can I still use one switch box, or do I need one each
for
the hob and oven unit (the hob will be installed in the work surface
above
the oven). Likewise, do I need 2 x 6mm flex outlets or can I connect the
hob to the oven unit? (They are both Neff appliances).

Depends on the ratings, if they're both under a total of around 30A
then yes, one switch into two outlets would be fine. If they're over
then it's 2 supplies you'll be wanting. I'd fit the hob supply switch
under the worktop in this case, unless you don't mind having another
switch above.

3.) Last (but not least) I fitted a King waste disposal unit to the sink
unit all those years ago, activated by a fused spur. Is this still the
preferred method of operation now, or is there some other means of
activating the device?

That's still an acceptable method.

4). Oh, one other thing - our washing machine has a built in timer
(which
is useful, because we are on economy 7 and can run the machine at night
more
cheaply). The new machine (which doesn't have a timer) will be built
into a
carcass, and plugged into a socket beneath the work surface, and the only
easy access to the power supply will be via a fused spur switch. Does
anyone know if it's possible to get a timer unit which can be fitted
inside
a metal patress box?

Try one of these in place of the spur.

http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_Ind...ater_Timers_1/
--

SJW
A.C.S. Ltd.

On Sun, 9 May 2004 16:53:32 +0100, "Chris Kaley"
wrote:


1). Regulations are bound to have changed since then - anyone know off-hand
the minimum distance from a power socket to either a sink/drainer or hob? I
have a feeling it's 30cm, but need to confirm this.

Chris


The electricians who tested/certified the wiring in our new kitchen
last year reckoned that if you could flick the switch on a socket with
one hand whilst your other hand was in the sink, the socket was
probably too close!

They did, however, sign off on the sockets I'd installed which were
about 20" from the sink. I don't have the regs to hand tho - so can't
confirm your 30cm thought...

Tim

(Lurch) wrote in message ...
On Sun, 9 May 2004 16:53:32 +0100, in uk.d-i-y "Chris Kaley"
strung together this:

4). Oh, one other thing - our washing machine has a built in timer (which
is useful, because we are on economy 7 and can run the machine at night more
cheaply). The new machine (which doesn't have a timer) will be built into a
carcass, and plugged into a socket beneath the work surface, and the only
easy access to the power supply will be via a fused spur switch. Does
anyone know if it's possible to get a timer unit which can be fitted inside
a metal patress box?

Try one of these in place of the spur.
http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_Ind...ater_Timers_1/

Or the cheaper version from Screwfix:
http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/...59925&ts=38006

On 9 May 2004 15:52:55 -0700, in uk.d-i-y
(Martin Pentreath) strung together this:

Or the cheaper version from Screwfix:
http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/...59925&ts=38006

Cheaper, but mainly because it won't do the job as the other one will.
The link I posted was to a switched fused spur with digital timer
built in, the one you posted was just a timer with no isolator, fuse
or anything.
You must try harder next time!
--

SJW
A.C.S. Ltd.

On Sun, 09 May 2004 23:37:18 +0100, in uk.d-i-y Tim Nicholson
strung together this:

The electricians who tested/certified the wiring in our new kitchen
last year reckoned that if you could flick the switch on a socket with
one hand whilst your other hand was in the sink, the socket was
probably too close!

They did, however, sign off on the sockets I'd installed which were
about 20" from the sink. I don't have the regs to hand tho - so can't
confirm your 30cm thought...

The regs, or the NICEIC, can't remember which. I think the regs are a
bit vague on this subject but the NICEIC reccomend 300mm.
If you can reach a socket with one hand and the sink with your other
then that would acount for most sockets in most kitchens. I think you
need to find a better electrician with more common sense.
--

SJW
A.C.S. Ltd.

In article ,
(Lurch) writes:
On Sun, 9 May 2004 16:53:32 +0100, in uk.d-i-y "Chris Kaley"
strung together this:

Just about to re-wire my kitchen - I last did this in 1984, and could do
with a couple of pointers.

1). Regulations are bound to have changed since then - anyone know off-hand
the minimum distance from a power socket to either a sink/drainer or hob? I
have a feeling it's 30cm, but need to confirm this.

Correct, although I usually go for 300mm from a draining board and
600mm from a sink where possible.

There's no distance specified in the regs, just a requirement that
other services such as water be far enough apart not to directly
interfere. Use common sense. The distance you might choose in a
large kitchen might mean you can't have any socket outlets if applied
to a tiny kitchen, so it's not black and white.

--
Andrew Gabriel

On Sun, 09 May 2004 23:10:38 GMT,
(Lurch) wrote:

On Sun, 09 May 2004 23:37:18 +0100, in uk.d-i-y Tim Nicholson
strung together this:

The electricians who tested/certified the wiring in our new kitchen
last year reckoned that if you could flick the switch on a socket with
one hand whilst your other hand was in the sink, the socket was
probably too close!

They did, however, sign off on the sockets I'd installed which were
about 20" from the sink. I don't have the regs to hand tho - so can't
confirm your 30cm thought...

The regs, or the NICEIC, can't remember which. I think the regs are a
bit vague on this subject but the NICEIC reccomend 300mm.
If you can reach a socket with one hand and the sink with your other
then that would acount for most sockets in most kitchens. I think you
need to find a better electrician with more common sense.

He had his tongue very firmly planted in his cheek when he said
it.....

Tim

(Lurch) wrote in message ...

Cheaper, but mainly because it won't do the job as the other one will.
The link I posted was to a switched fused spur with digital timer
built in, the one you posted was just a timer with no isolator, fuse
or anything.
You must try harder next time!

Blush, you're right, maybe I should just go to back to asking the
questions instead of trying to answer them ;-)

As I intend to do the same thing as Chris at some point soon, could
someone explain why the washing machine needs to be on a fused spur?
Wouldn't just having a timer of the cheapo Screwfix variety make the
socket into which the WM is plugged the same as any other spur socket,
but just controlled by a timer? Is there anything wrong with that?

On 10 May 2004 10:57:07 -0700, in uk.d-i-y
(Martin Pentreath) strung together this:

Blush, you're right, maybe I should just go to back to asking the
questions instead of trying to answer them ;-)

We all have off days!

As I intend to do the same thing as Chris at some point soon, could
someone explain why the washing machine needs to be on a fused spur?

It doesn't, it's just for convenience.

Wouldn't just having a timer of the cheapo Screwfix variety make the
socket into which the WM is plugged the same as any other spur socket,
but just controlled by a timer? Is there anything wrong with that?

Not anything wrong particularly, other than a 16A timeswitch protected
by a 32A MCB and the timeswitch itself having no isolator, and also
not particularly good practice. For convenience the switched spur is
to isolate the machine for maintenance, or in case of a tripping RCD
caused by the machine. Both of these can be done without having to
pull the machine out to get to the plug.
--

SJW
A.C.S. Ltd.

Well, I'm impressed at the amount of interest shown in this.

Lurch, I ordered two of the timers you recommended (24 hour version) - they
look just the ticket (thought I'd do the dishwasher as well, whilst I'm at
it).

Chris
"Lurch" wrote in message
...
On 10 May 2004 10:57:07 -0700, in uk.d-i-y
(Martin Pentreath) strung together this:

Blush, you're right, maybe I should just go to back to asking the
questions instead of trying to answer them ;-)

We all have off days!

As I intend to do the same thing as Chris at some point soon, could
someone explain why the washing machine needs to be on a fused spur?

It doesn't, it's just for convenience.

Wouldn't just having a timer of the cheapo Screwfix variety make the
socket into which the WM is plugged the same as any other spur socket,
but just controlled by a timer? Is there anything wrong with that?

Not anything wrong particularly, other than a 16A timeswitch protected
by a 32A MCB and the timeswitch itself having no isolator, and also
not particularly good practice. For convenience the switched spur is
to isolate the machine for maintenance, or in case of a tripping RCD
caused by the machine. Both of these can be done without having to
pull the machine out to get to the plug.
--

SJW
A.C.S. Ltd.

On Mon, 10 May 2004 20:13:07 +0100, in uk.d-i-y "Chris Kaley"
strung together this:

Well, I'm impressed at the amount of interest shown in this.

I'm sometimes surprised at the length of some threads for basic type
questions!

Lurch, I ordered two of the timers you recommended (24 hour version) - they
look just the ticket (thought I'd do the dishwasher as well, whilst I'm at
it).

Good idea.

Just for future reference, could you please not top post. Thankyou.
--

SJW
A.C.S. Ltd.

you may also find that the new cable colours are now in effect (april 2004)
these being brown and blue and green /yellow for fixed wiring and a label
should be placed by the consumer unit advising that both colours are
installed in the system
also 3 core and earth are now coloured brown /black /gray
the outer sheath is gray in colour indicating pvc insulation and white
sheath indicating LSF insulation
the old colours may still be installed until april 2005

a word of warning about 3 phase black is now a live conductor and blue is
now neutral


phil nettleton

On Fri, 14 May 2004 01:12:04 +0100, in uk.d-i-y "Phil Nettleton"
strung together this:

a word of warning about 3 phase black is now a live conductor and blue is
now neutral

Not confusing at all, considering the stupidity of quite a few sparkys
I've worked with in the past!
--

SJW
A.C.S. Ltd.

"Phil Nettleton" wrote in message
...

the outer sheath is gray in colour indicating pvc insulation and
white sheath indicating LSF insulation

Not necessarily - in fact I've not come across that notion at all, and you
can certainly buy ordinary BS 6004 PVC twin & earth in both grey and white
sheath versions (e.g. see RS catalogue).

the old colours may still be installed until april 2005
^^^^
No, 2006 - it's a two-year change over. Work starting on site on or after
01/04/2006 must use the new colours.

--
Andy