Hi Kate
I think from your description you have been given a device to cap the valve
of the radiator. So in other words you will still have the two valves in
situ. What you need for a permanent seal is to remove the valves and go
back to the plumber merchant and ask for a 15 mm Speedfit connection and a
blanking plug. You push the blanking plug on one end of the connection and
the other end you just push on the pipe you want to seal. I hope this
description helps. There are other methods which require solder or big
spanners etc but this is the easiest in my opinion for the DIY plumber.
Regards
Richard

wrote in message
...
Hey folks - thanks in advance for any help you can offer.

I'm removing a radiator, hopefully. My central heating system runs
off the coal fire.

I think I've worked out how to remove the radiator ok, but I'm unsure
about sealing up the pipes when I've done this; I want to remove the
radiator for good.

I've been to the plumbers' merchant for something to seal off the
pipes and they gave me something which seems to be composed of a
collar and a cap which screws into it. In between the collar and the
cap there is a washer-type-thing shaped lik a hula hoop (kp variety!).

What I want to know is...
1) Will this nut thing fit onto the horizontal part of the fitting,
or do I have to remove the valve and put it on the vertical part of
the pipe?

2) How does this but thing stay attached to the pipe? I don't have
to weld it or anything do I?

Cheers.

SadKate***

On Sun, 3 Aug 2003 16:27:21 UTC, "Richard"
top posted:

wrote in message
...
I've been to the plumbers' merchant for something to seal off the
pipes and they gave me something which seems to be composed of a
collar and a cap which screws into it. In between the collar and the
cap there is a washer-type-thing shaped lik a hula hoop (kp variety!).

I think from your description you have been given a device to cap the valve
of the radiator.

No, I think she's been given a compression fitting to cap the actual
pipe. The 'hula hoop' is the olive.

Kate, you need a bare pipe end to fit that. So you need to cut the pipe
off square, anywhere you like; then clean up the rough end. The collar
goes over the pipe (threaded part towards the cut end) and then the
'hula hoop' (commonly known as an 'olive'). Screw the cap on finger
tight, then another quarter turn tighter using two big spanners. Don't
tighten too much. The idea is that the olive bites into the pipe and
makes a metal-to-metal seal; too tight and the seal fails. You can
always tighten a bit more later if it isn't tight enough.

May just be easier to get something to screw into the end!

--
Bob Eager
rde at tavi.co.uk
PC Server 325*4; PS/2s 9585, 8595, 9595*2, 8580*3,
P70, PC/AT..

On Sun, 3 Aug 2003 17:44:40 +0100, "Jim Crow" wrote:


"Richard" wrote in message
...
Hi Kate
I think from your description you have been given a device to cap the
valve
of the radiator. So in other words you will still have the two valves in
situ. What you need for a permanent seal is to remove the valves and go
back to the plumber merchant and ask for a 15 mm Speedfit connection and
a
blanking plug. You push the blanking plug on one end of the connection and
the other end you just push on the pipe you want to seal.

Do the valves screw off/on Richard?

Ta.

On 3 Aug 2003 16:54:31 GMT, (Bob Eager) wrote:

On Sun, 3 Aug 2003 16:27:21 UTC, "Richard"
top posted:

wrote in message
...
I've been to the plumbers' merchant for something to seal off the
pipes and they gave me something which seems to be composed of a
collar and a cap which screws into it. In between the collar and the
cap there is a washer-type-thing shaped lik a hula hoop (kp variety!).

I think from your description you have been given a device to cap the valve
of the radiator.

No, I think she's been given a compression fitting to cap the actual
pipe. The 'hula hoop' is the olive.

Kate, you need a bare pipe end to fit that. So you need to cut the pipe
off square, anywhere you like; then clean up the rough end. The collar
goes over the pipe (threaded part towards the cut end) and then the
'hula hoop' (commonly known as an 'olive'). Screw the cap on finger
tight, then another quarter turn tighter using two big spanners. Don't
tighten too much. The idea is that the olive bites into the pipe and
makes a metal-to-metal seal; too tight and the seal fails. You can
always tighten a bit more later if it isn't tight enough.

Ah that makes sense and it sounds ideal. I'd like to pare back the
plumbing as much as possible.

Do I have to drain the system then? Can I just be quick and have
something ready to stick in the hole?

"SadKate***" wrote in message
news
On Sun, 3 Aug 2003 17:44:40 +0100, "Jim Crow" wrote:


"Richard" wrote in message
...
Hi Kate
I think from your description you have been given a device to cap the
valve
of the radiator. So in other words you will still have the two valves
in
situ. What you need for a permanent seal is to remove the valves and
go
back to the plumber merchant and ask for a 15 mm Speedfit connection
and
a
blanking plug. You push the blanking plug on one end of the connection
and
the other end you just push on the pipe you want to seal.

Do the valves screw off/on Richard?

Ta.

If you've been given something like this:

http://tinyurl.com/iwlt

then you'll have to drain the system down and cut the pipes back where they
will not be seen. Fit the compression stop end by slipping the threaded nut
(the completely open thing with a screw thread in it) over the pipe first.
Then place the olive washer (the hula-hoop) over the pipe and then the stop
end cap itself.

Tighten them by hand until they grip quite firmly together and make sure you
give the whole thing a little tap on the end to make sure it is correctly
and fully on the pipe. Take two spanners which fit the size of the heads
(the hexagonal bits) and tighten them up firmly but not over tightened.

Start to fill the system back up, which gives a good opportunity to give the
pipes a good flush out as well, and watch for any leaks. If you see any
little dribbles, just give the fitting a little more tightening to stop it.
Da Da your jobs done. Now sit back and have a cuppa' tea and relax.


---
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On Sun, 03 Aug 2003 17:22:41 GMT, "BigWallop"
wrote:


"SadKate***" wrote in message
news
On Sun, 3 Aug 2003 17:44:40 +0100, "Jim Crow" wrote:


"Richard" wrote in message
...
Hi Kate
I think from your description you have been given a device to cap the
valve
of the radiator. So in other words you will still have the two valves
in
situ. What you need for a permanent seal is to remove the valves and
go
back to the plumber merchant and ask for a 15 mm Speedfit connection
and
a
blanking plug. You push the blanking plug on one end of the connection
and
the other end you just push on the pipe you want to seal.

Do the valves screw off/on Richard?

Ta.

If you've been given something like this:

http://tinyurl.com/iwlt

then you'll have to drain the system down and cut the pipes back where they
will not be seen. Fit the compression stop end by slipping the threaded nut
(the completely open thing with a screw thread in it) over the pipe first.
Then place the olive washer (the hula-hoop) over the pipe and then the stop
end cap itself.

Tighten them by hand until they grip quite firmly together and make sure you
give the whole thing a little tap on the end to make sure it is correctly
and fully on the pipe. Take two spanners which fit the size of the heads
(the hexagonal bits) and tighten them up firmly but not over tightened.

Start to fill the system back up, which gives a good opportunity to give the
pipes a good flush out as well, and watch for any leaks. If you see any
little dribbles, just give the fitting a little more tightening to stop it.
Da Da your jobs done. Now sit back and have a cuppa' tea and relax.


Brilliant help folks, thanks a lot.

For the record, what I have is one of these:
http://secure.thorite.co.uk/Thorite_...tings_204.html

so I guess I have to drain the system. Just off to work out how to do
that...

SadKate*** wrote in message
news

Do I have to drain the system then?

Yes!

Can I just be quick and have
something ready to stick in the hole?


You're very unlikely to be quick *enough* if you haven't done it before (and
even if you have) - with the result that you will cover your carpet with
evil black gunge which never comes off!

Roger

"Roger Mills" wrote in
:


Can I just be quick and have
something ready to stick in the hole?


You're very unlikely to be quick *enough* if you haven't done it
before (and even if you have) - with the result that you will cover
your carpet with evil black gunge which never comes off!

Roger


Recently had to remove an old water tank which, even after fully draining,
had a layer of rusty yuck at the bottom and open connections on the sides
and bottom. I just bunged a few corks in so that I could carry it outside.
Worked a treat. I cannot see why doing the same here would be
problematical. Just need a cork of the right size. (For the water tank I
used some champagne corks - fitted exactly!) If you are blanking it off I
cannot see any problem with doing this, then fitting the proper fitting
with the cork still in place. However, if there is a downside to doing
this, I expect to be told very quickly by one of the contributors.

Rod

On Sun, 3 Aug 2003 20:16:25 +0100, "Roger Mills"
wrote:


SadKate*** wrote in message
news

Do I have to drain the system then?

Yes!

Can I just be quick and have
something ready to stick in the hole?


You're very unlikely to be quick *enough* if you haven't done it before (and
even if you have) - with the result that you will cover your carpet with
evil black gunge which never comes off!

Is it a lot of black gunge? - like, is it the whole system worth -
because I'm doing it on a tiled floor, so I'm not too worried.

On Sun, 03 Aug 2003 20:34:00 +0100, SadKate***
wrote:

On Sun, 3 Aug 2003 20:16:25 +0100, "Roger Mills"
wrote:


SadKate*** wrote in message
news

Do I have to drain the system then?

Yes!

Can I just be quick and have
something ready to stick in the hole?


You're very unlikely to be quick *enough* if you haven't done it before (and
even if you have) - with the result that you will cover your carpet with
evil black gunge which never comes off!

Is it a lot of black gunge? - like, is it the whole system worth -
because I'm doing it on a tiled floor, so I'm not too worried.

I've only a concrete floor at the moment and when I took the
downstairs radiators off they were fully of black sludge (cup full at
least). It is horrid stuff to get off anything, as it's concrete I
just washed as much as I could off but anywhere it spills it stains,
especially when not paying attention and the radiator you are carrying
is slopping the stuff all over the house as you carry it out. ;-)

I'd get a pipe cutter as well, only just bought one today and it is a
doddle to use.

Mark S.

SadKate*** wrote in message
news
On Sun, 3 Aug 2003 20:16:25 +0100, "Roger Mills"
wrote:


SadKate*** wrote in message
news

Do I have to drain the system then?

Yes!

Can I just be quick and have
something ready to stick in the hole?


You're very unlikely to be quick *enough* if you haven't done it before
(and
even if you have) - with the result that you will cover your carpet with
evil black gunge which never comes off!

Is it a lot of black gunge? - like, is it the whole system worth -
because I'm doing it on a tiled floor, so I'm not too worried.

The problem is that, cutting a pipe in situ is not easy to do - because you
probably can't get a pipe cutter in, and will have to resort to a hacksaw.
This being the case, you will have to clean up the cut end of the pipe -
removing burrs with a file etc. - before being able to fit a blanking
fitting. While you are doing all that, the system is busy emptying itself
all over your floor!

You could try the following: [not sure whether you have already removed the
radiator, so will assume you haven't]
* turn off both radiator valves
* drain the radiator by undoing each union (between valve and rad) in turn,
opening the bleed screw to let air in, and catching the water in a small
bowl placed under the union
* once the radiator is virtually empty, lift it off its brackets and upend
it into an old bowl to catch the black gunge which collects in the bottom
* stuff kitchen roll into its open ends to stop anything else coming out
while you carry it out of the house

You now need to be able to shorten the pipes which still have valves on the
end, with the minimum of spillage:
* find the header tank which feeds the heating system
* it should have a feed pipe at the bottom, below the water level. Bung a co
rk in it.
* it should have an expansion pipe looping over the top of the tank. Bung a
cork in the end of that
* turn off both valves of all other radiators in the house - counting and
recording the nunber of turns on each lockshield valve so that you can put
it back to the same postion
* open each radiator valve in turn (from the removed radiator) and catch any
water which comes out - shouldn't be too much if you have sealed the tank
properly
* NOW you can cut the pipes off and fit blanking fittings

Finally, don't forget to remove the corks, and to turn the other rads back
on - resetting the lockshields to their original positions - and make sure
that the ball valve is working to enable to system to refill properly.

HTH,
Roger

On Mon, 4 Aug 2003 09:32:15 +0100, "Roger Mills"
wrote:


Is it a lot of black gunge? - like, is it the whole system worth -
because I'm doing it on a tiled floor, so I'm not too worried.

The problem is that, cutting a pipe in situ is not easy to do - because you
probably can't get a pipe cutter in, and will have to resort to a hacksaw.
This being the case, you will have to clean up the cut end of the pipe -
removing burrs with a file etc. - before being able to fit a blanking
fitting. While you are doing all that, the system is busy emptying itself
all over your floor!

You could try the following: [not sure whether you have already removed the
radiator, so will assume you haven't]
* turn off both radiator valves
* drain the radiator by undoing each union (between valve and rad) in turn,
opening the bleed screw to let air in, and catching the water in a small
bowl placed under the union
* once the radiator is virtually empty, lift it off its brackets and upend
it into an old bowl to catch the black gunge which collects in the bottom
* stuff kitchen roll into its open ends to stop anything else coming out
while you carry it out of the house

You now need to be able to shorten the pipes which still have valves on the
end, with the minimum of spillage:
* find the header tank which feeds the heating system
* it should have a feed pipe at the bottom, below the water level. Bung a co
rk in it.
* it should have an expansion pipe looping over the top of the tank. Bung a
cork in the end of that
* turn off both valves of all other radiators in the house - counting and
recording the nunber of turns on each lockshield valve so that you can put
it back to the same postion
* open each radiator valve in turn (from the removed radiator) and catch any
water which comes out - shouldn't be too much if you have sealed the tank
properly
* NOW you can cut the pipes off and fit blanking fittings

Finally, don't forget to remove the corks, and to turn the other rads back
on - resetting the lockshields to their original positions - and make sure
that the ball valve is working to enable to system to refill properly.

Ouch this IS turning into a bigger job than I thought! =(

OK, I may well be clutching at straws here, but I wondered one other
thing...

Rather than all the sawing and stuff, when I've taken the rad off the
wall, shouldn't I be able to unscrew each valve off the pipe leaving
the bottom part of the fitting (which looks the same as the bottom
part of my end caps) and screw the end cap on there?

Cheers.
K***

"SadKate***" wrote in message
news
On Mon, 4 Aug 2003 09:32:15 +0100, "Roger Mills"
wrote:


Is it a lot of black gunge? - like, is it the whole system worth -
because I'm doing it on a tiled floor, so I'm not too worried.

The problem is that, cutting a pipe in situ is not easy to do - because
you
probably can't get a pipe cutter in, and will have to resort to a
hacksaw.
This being the case, you will have to clean up the cut end of the pipe -
removing burrs with a file etc. - before being able to fit a blanking
fitting. While you are doing all that, the system is busy emptying itself
all over your floor!

You could try the following: [not sure whether you have already removed
the
radiator, so will assume you haven't]
* turn off both radiator valves
* drain the radiator by undoing each union (between valve and rad) in
turn,
opening the bleed screw to let air in, and catching the water in a small
bowl placed under the union
* once the radiator is virtually empty, lift it off its brackets and
upend
it into an old bowl to catch the black gunge which collects in the bottom
* stuff kitchen roll into its open ends to stop anything else coming out
while you carry it out of the house

You now need to be able to shorten the pipes which still have valves on
the
end, with the minimum of spillage:
* find the header tank which feeds the heating system
* it should have a feed pipe at the bottom, below the water level. Bung a
co
rk in it.
* it should have an expansion pipe looping over the top of the tank. Bung
a
cork in the end of that
* turn off both valves of all other radiators in the house - counting and
recording the nunber of turns on each lockshield valve so that you can
put
it back to the same postion
* open each radiator valve in turn (from the removed radiator) and catch
any
water which comes out - shouldn't be too much if you have sealed the tank
properly
* NOW you can cut the pipes off and fit blanking fittings

Finally, don't forget to remove the corks, and to turn the other rads
back
on - resetting the lockshields to their original positions - and make
sure
that the ball valve is working to enable to system to refill properly.

Ouch this IS turning into a bigger job than I thought! =(

OK, I may well be clutching at straws here, but I wondered one other
thing...

Rather than all the sawing and stuff, when I've taken the rad off the
wall, shouldn't I be able to unscrew each valve off the pipe leaving
the bottom part of the fitting (which looks the same as the bottom
part of my end caps) and screw the end cap on there?

Cheers.
K***


Yes you can use this method, but be aware that the pipes under the floor may
well be unsupported and if the sections above the floor level are bumped or
stood on, then it may cause the pipe underneath to sheer off and cause
leaks.

It's better if you can get to the sections of pipe underneath the floor and
cap them from there. There will also be more room for manoeuvring a
pipecutter under the floor void. It's a bigger job, but if you don't intend
to put a radiator back in that spot in the foreseeable future, then it is
safer in the long run to drain the system down and do the job right.


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Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
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Jim Crow wrote:
Don't forget that if you remove the valves, you'll almost certainly have
drain the system first.............or be super quick with those Speedfix
stop-ends

I went for the super quick option when I removed a radiator in the
bathroom and inadvertantly cut through the rad pipe on the wrong side
of the valve....

Usefully the speedfit stop-end was within reaching distance.

Laughed - ha I was crying. :-)


--Paul
--praying for lots of rain so I can test out the newly repaired roof...

On Mon, 04 Aug 2003 14:57:18 GMT, "BigWallop"
wrote:


"SadKate***" wrote in message
news
On Mon, 4 Aug 2003 09:32:15 +0100, "Roger Mills"
wrote:

snippage
Rather than all the sawing and stuff, when I've taken the rad off the
wall, shouldn't I be able to unscrew each valve off the pipe leaving
the bottom part of the fitting (which looks the same as the bottom
part of my end caps) and screw the end cap on there?

Cheers.
K***


Yes you can use this method, but be aware that the pipes under the floor may
well be unsupported and if the sections above the floor level are bumped or
stood on, then it may cause the pipe underneath to sheer off and cause
leaks.

It's better if you can get to the sections of pipe underneath the floor and
cap them from there. There will also be more room for manoeuvring a
pipecutter under the floor void. It's a bigger job, but if you don't intend
to put a radiator back in that spot in the foreseeable future, then it is
safer in the long run to drain the system down and do the job right.

I've tried every excuse, but I'm just going to have to do this right,
eh? looks downcast

Thanks for all your help folks!

Kate***