Hi All,

I live on the end of a terrace with a garage at the bottom of the
shortish garden.

I have side access to the 'garden' (back yard) via a pair of wooden
gates on the ramains of some 9" square wooden posts. Fedup with seeing
9" square tannalized posts rotting off at the ground it what seems
like no time and with restricted room to 'swing' double gates I
thought of making / installing some sliding gates. The gates have
about a 12' span (I would have to drive in at an angle)

I had the chance to look over a set at a local steel fabricators and
it all looks pretty straight forward in construction.

The 'track' was (would be) a single (25') length of thick walled steel
tube (about 25 mm dia) that was tack welded to some steel rectangular
box section with perforated sides that get's set into the ground
(concrete) with the 'track' slightly above the surrounding surface.

There were concave faced nylon wheels set under each end of the gate
to keep it 'on-track'.

The 6" square steel posts are set infront of the track with rollered
guides above the gate to keep the gate upright as it is opened. They
also stop the gate being lifted off it's track when closed.

There was a stop on the gate to prevent it going past the second post
when open and another at the closed end that allows the gate to be
padlocked shut. I would probably also fit a drop bolt in the middle to
help prevent the gate being bent in the middle.

The gate itself would be about 12' wide by 6' high steel box (not
sure what thickness or section would be needed yet) and probably be
constructed to look like two 'gates' from the outside and the 'panels'
infilled on the outside by some suitable wood (floor grade T&G or
thinner cladding stuff over WBP ply for strength).

I could get the steelwork galvanised but it will probably look better
(and outlast me) if painted with some suitable stuff (chassis paint,
Hammerite etc)

So, that's the 'rough' plan.

Anyone done similar, any thoughts or reservations etc please?

All the best ..

T i m

p.s. I though it might be a good use of my new (cheapo) SDS drill with
a L O N G wood type bit to drill out the old post stub (just in drill
mode)? Can you get long (1m?) wood auger / bits at a reasonable price
please or should I carry on with my first plan ... Semtex?

I replaced the ramaining post about 6 years ago so I'm not sure how
easy that will be to get out?

"T i m" wrote in message
news
Hi All,

snip

Anyone done similar, any thoughts or reservations etc please?

All the best ..

Not really similar but Spouse, fed up with rotting and easily broken into
wooden garage doors made steel ones - on hinges though. He made a steel
framework and clad them with sheet steel, can't remember the gauge. They are
very strong and don't look bad. The white Hammerite is beinginning to get a
bit knocked about and it could do with a new coat but it's lasted for many
years. No rotting and, to date, burglar-proof.

Mary

T i m

Hi,

How about steel or concrete posts (no rot)?.

Still leaves you with the limited space problem you currently have but
the reduced cost/work might make the sacrifice worth it.

Alan.

T i m wrote in message . ..
snip

On Tue, 27 Apr 2004 15:38:05 +0100, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:


"T i m" wrote in message
news
Hi All,

snip

Anyone done similar, any thoughts or reservations etc please?

All the best ..

Not really similar but Spouse, fed up with rotting and easily broken into
wooden garage doors made steel ones - on hinges though. He made a steel
framework and clad them with sheet steel, can't remember the gauge. They are
very strong and don't look bad. The white Hammerite is beinginning to get a
bit knocked about and it could do with a new coat but it's lasted for many
years. No rotting and, to date, burglar-proof.

Mary

She's alive!

Where were you when I needed you on uk.food+drink.misc (they were
picking on me Mary!)

Anyway, thanks for the reply darlin and the feedback.

I've done the same as 'spouse' with my workshop replacing an 8' square
up_and_over door with a triple door and fanlight type assembly all in
steel. The l/h door is the 'personal one' and the other two 'bi-fold'
when (if) I need to open the lot up.

The gate will be a slightly different badger as it's going to be a 12'
'unsupported' span (the wheels will be at / near the ends). Also the
'hounds' are going to have to get past that to get to the workshop and
between the two are the plasma cannon and ion field generator. ;-)

I think my local steel fabrication place stock all the bracketwork
'off_the_shelf' so that might save a bit of work, it's just what guage
/ section to do the gate bit in is my first question?

All the best ..

Yours .. ;-)

T i m

On 27 Apr 2004 07:58:35 -0700, (Alan
Campbell) wrote:

Hi,

How about steel or concrete posts (no rot)?.

Well that was the though as the new sliding 'gate' would need to be
more precice re it's mountings. Also I thought I'd get a couple of
plain steel posts in then I could weld the bits on before I paint it
all up.

Still leaves you with the limited space problem you currently have but
the reduced cost/work might make the sacrifice worth it.

Well the 'cost' shouldn't be too bad Alan as the steel is pretty cheap
(bought in quantity) and I have the steel cutting bandsaw (nice for 45
deg corners), pillar drill, welding gear already. ;-)

The 'work' (as I see it) will be getting the old posts (one good, one
stub) out. If I get them out neatly and leave the cement in place I
would probably reuse the holes making the re-fitting quite
straightforward.

I can have most of the steelwork cut ready with just the final lengths
to cut nearer the day.

All the best ..

T i m

T i m wrote:

Where were you when I needed you on uk.food+drink.misc (they were
picking on me Mary!)

I think that some of them may have thought you were being deliberately
provocative

Sheila

"T i m" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 27 Apr 2004 15:38:05 +0100, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:


"T i m" wrote in message
news
Hi All,

snip

Anyone done similar, any thoughts or reservations etc please?

All the best ..

Not really similar but Spouse, fed up with rotting and easily broken into
wooden garage doors made steel ones - on hinges though. He made a steel
framework and clad them with sheet steel, can't remember the gauge. They
are
very strong and don't look bad. The white Hammerite is beinginning to get
a
bit knocked about and it could do with a new coat but it's lasted for
many
years. No rotting and, to date, burglar-proof.

Mary

She's alive!

Where were you when I needed you on uk.food+drink.misc (they were
picking on me Mary!)

Oh, I'm sorry. I got a tad bored with them. If yoyu'd said (pribvately) I'd
have come back from the dead to support you. I did in another ng when I was
told they were talking about me ... What were they saying?

Anyway, thanks for the reply darlin and the feedback.

My pleasure.

I've done the same as 'spouse'

Capital 'S' if you don't mind ...

with my workshop replacing an 8' square
up_and_over door with a triple door and fanlight type assembly all in
steel. The l/h door is the 'personal one' and the other two 'bi-fold'
when (if) I need to open the lot up.

Unfortunately, because of the ahem junk in front of the rh door (facing)
ours is un-openable anyway but since the ahem garage isn't used to contain
the car that's not an issue. The carport was built to protect the car.

Unfortunately because of other ahem stuff (like trailer, ANOTHER
workbench, trailer tent, gas cooker still to be sold on e-bay when he gets
round to it)) the car is only half way under the carport.

But at our age does it matter?

The gate will be a slightly different badger as it's going to be a 12'
'unsupported' span (the wheels will be at / near the ends). Also the
'hounds' are going to have to get past that to get to the workshop and
between the two are the plasma cannon and ion field generator. ;-)

You mean your car won't have to go past it?

I think my local steel fabrication place stock all the bracketwork
'off_the_shelf' so that might save a bit of work, it's just what guage
/ section to do the gate bit in is my first question?

Shall I ask Him?

Mary

"S Viemeister" wrote in message
...
T i m wrote:

Where were you when I needed you on uk.food+drink.misc (they were
picking on me Mary!)

I think that some of them may have thought you were being deliberately
provocative

Tell me more.

Mary

Sheila

"T i m" wrote in message
...
On 27 Apr 2004 07:58:35 -0700, (Alan
Campbell) wrote:

Hi,

How about steel or concrete posts (no rot)?.

Well that was the though as the new sliding 'gate' would need to be
more precice re it's mountings. Also I thought I'd get a couple of
plain steel posts in then I could weld the bits on before I paint it
all up.

Still leaves you with the limited space problem you currently have but
the reduced cost/work might make the sacrifice worth it.

Well the 'cost' shouldn't be too bad Alan as the steel is pretty cheap
(bought in quantity) and I have the steel cutting bandsaw (nice for 45
deg corners), pillar drill, welding gear already. ;-)

The 'work' (as I see it) will be getting the old posts (one good, one
stub) out. If I get them out neatly and leave the cement in place I
would probably reuse the holes making the re-fitting quite
straightforward.

I can have most of the steelwork cut ready with just the final lengths
to cut nearer the day.

I just staggered down to have a look at ours. Not drunk, M'Lud, just ... er
.... well, it was a very good meal (as all ours are and the traditional
Hereford beef steak [Alice] deserved something rather good) reminded me that
our garage doors have a steel framework. They must be fixed, somehow, to the
concrete block garage ...

Shall I ask?

His memory is no better than mine but sometimes his retrieval system is more
efficient ...

Mary

Mary Fisher wrote:

"S Viemeister" wrote in message
...
T i m wrote:

Where were you when I needed you on uk.food+drink.misc (they were
picking on me Mary!)

I think that some of them may have thought you were being deliberately
provocative

Tell me more.

It would be seriously off-topic here.
And I don't know that he WAS trying to be provocative - just that it may
have appeared that way to some.

Sheila

On Tue, 27 Apr 2004 20:32:46 +0100, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:


"T i m" wrote in message
.. .
On 27 Apr 2004 07:58:35 -0700, (Alan
Campbell) wrote:

Hi,

How about steel or concrete posts (no rot)?.

Well that was the though as the new sliding 'gate' would need to be
more precice re it's mountings. Also I thought I'd get a couple of
plain steel posts in then I could weld the bits on before I paint it
all up.

Still leaves you with the limited space problem you currently have but
the reduced cost/work might make the sacrifice worth it.

Well the 'cost' shouldn't be too bad Alan as the steel is pretty cheap
(bought in quantity) and I have the steel cutting bandsaw (nice for 45
deg corners), pillar drill, welding gear already. ;-)

The 'work' (as I see it) will be getting the old posts (one good, one
stub) out. If I get them out neatly and leave the cement in place I
would probably reuse the holes making the re-fitting quite
straightforward.

I can have most of the steelwork cut ready with just the final lengths
to cut nearer the day.

I just staggered down to have a look at ours. Not drunk, M'Lud, just ... er
... well, it was a very good meal (as all ours are and the traditional
Hereford beef steak [Alice] deserved something rather good) reminded me that
our garage doors have a steel framework. They must be fixed, somehow, to the
concrete block garage ...

Shall I ask?

No, leave him be Mary ;-)

His memory is no better than mine but sometimes his retrieval system is more
efficient ...

That's blokes for you .. spark plug gaps, thou's into mm's yes,
birthdays .. no ;-)

The doors on my garage are bolted into a 100 x 100 x 5 mm angle iron
frame and that in turn is bolted onto the pre-fabricated garage (it
wasn't stable enough to dake the doors directly).

The gate is another matter. Because if the angle we have to adopt to
stand a chance of getting a car into the garden they have to be quite
wide. This means the gates are quite big to 'hang' from the posts and
more importantly are difficult to open inwards (into the garden and
onto the car we are trying to get in there or across the pavement (not
very friendly / allowed?)

So I'm going to fit steel posts (no rot and good for welding things
to) and a sliding gate (no space) that runs on a track (tube) at
ground level and down the side of the garage.

I've got some ideas of what I'm going to do but not sure about some of
the thicknesses / sections to juse to give me something durable but
not over engineered?

All the best ..

T i m

On Tue, 27 Apr 2004 16:38:11 -0400, S Viemeister
wrote:

Mary Fisher wrote:

"S Viemeister" wrote in message
...
T i m wrote:

Where were you when I needed you on uk.food+drink.misc (they were
picking on me Mary!)

I think that some of them may have thought you were being deliberately
provocative

Tell me more.

It would be seriously off-topic here.
And I don't know that he WAS trying to be provocative - just that it may
have appeared that way to some.

Hi Sheila, I hope you are well and happy?

Not 'provocative' but I did play 'devils advocate' a couple of times
to try to get a theory across. Most follk were pretty easy going about
the whole thing, genuinely answering questions and offering
suggestions.

No malice intended etc.

All the best ..

T i m

"S Viemeister" wrote in message
...
Mary Fisher wrote:

"S Viemeister" wrote in message
...
T i m wrote:

Where were you when I needed you on uk.food+drink.misc (they were
picking on me Mary!)

I think that some of them may have thought you were being deliberately
provocative

Tell me more.

It would be seriously off-topic here.
And I don't know that he WAS trying to be provocative - just that it may
have appeared that way to some.

There are some touchy folk on all ngs ...

Mary

Sheila

"T i m" wrote in message
...


I just staggered down to have a look at ours. Not drunk, M'Lud, just ...
er
... well, it was a very good meal (as all ours are and the traditional
Hereford beef steak [Alice] deserved something rather good) reminded me
that
our garage doors have a steel framework. They must be fixed, somehow, to
the
concrete block garage ...

Shall I ask?

No, leave him be Mary ;-)

His memory is no better than mine but sometimes his retrieval system is
more
efficient ...

That's blokes for you .. spark plug gaps, thou's into mm's yes,
birthdays .. no ;-)

I can do spark plug gaps and thous into mms but not birthdays ... except my
own of course :-)

The doors on my garage are bolted into a 100 x 100 x 5 mm angle iron
frame and that in turn is bolted onto the pre-fabricated garage (it
wasn't stable enough to dake the doors directly).

That was it - angle iron!

The gate is another matter. Because if the angle we have to adopt to
stand a chance of getting a car into the garden they have to be quite
wide. This means the gates are quite big to 'hang' from the posts and
more importantly are difficult to open inwards (into the garden and
onto the car we are trying to get in there or across the pavement (not
very friendly / allowed?)

So I'm going to fit steel posts (no rot and good for welding things
to) and a sliding gate (no space) that runs on a track (tube) at
ground level and down the side of the garage.

I've got some ideas of what I'm going to do but not sure about some of
the thicknesses / sections to juse to give me something durable but
not over engineered?

Let us know ...

Mary

All the best ..

T i m

On Tue, 27 Apr 2004 11:35:33 +0100, T i m wrote:

I have side access to the 'garden' (back yard) via a pair of wooden
gates on the ramains of some 9" square wooden posts. Fedup with seeing
9" square tannalized posts rotting off at the ground it what seems
like no time
Hi,

Not suprising really, tanalizing is usually a surface treatment.

cheers,
Pete.

"T i m" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 27 Apr 2004 15:38:05 +0100, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:


"T i m" wrote in message
news
Hi All,

snip

Anyone done similar, any thoughts or reservations etc please?

All the best ..

Not really similar but Spouse, fed up with rotting and easily broken into
wooden garage doors made steel ones - on hinges though. He made a steel
framework and clad them with sheet steel, can't remember the gauge. They
are
very strong and don't look bad. The white Hammerite is beinginning to get
a
bit knocked about and it could do with a new coat but it's lasted for
many
years. No rotting and, to date, burglar-proof.

Mary

She's alive!

Where were you when I needed you on uk.food+drink.misc (they were
picking on me Mary!)

Anyway, thanks for the reply darlin and the feedback.

Eggs is eggs, if they're from genuinely happy, free range and organically
fed hens. Doesn't matter what the age is, who wnts hard boild eanyway?

There are a lot of myths about eggs.

We have two, one, a bantam, lays (at the moment) every day. That's enough
for us. why don't you d.i.y. and have a couple of banties? Then you'll
really know about eggs.

Mary
in inner city Leeds

On Tue, 27 Apr 2004 22:28:31 +0100, Pete C
wrote:

On Tue, 27 Apr 2004 11:35:33 +0100, T i m wrote:

I have side access to the 'garden' (back yard) via a pair of wooden
gates on the ramains of some 9" square wooden posts. Fedup with seeing
9" square tannalized posts rotting off at the ground it what seems
like no time
Hi,

Not suprising really, tanalizing is usually a surface treatment.

Hi Pete,

I might of got that wrong then? I thought they said they stick the
posts in a big chamber, suck out all (or a lot of) the air, spray in
fluid then thet the air back in (drawing the fluids with it?). I think
that's what they said and it was some years ago now ..?

I did also soak them in creosote for a week before planting them?

Anyway, I think I'd prefer steel for this job as it's more
'mechanical' ..

All the best ..

T i m



cheers,
Pete.

"T i m" wrote in message
news ....
The 'track' was (would be) a single (25') length of thick walled steel
tube (about 25 mm dia) that was tack welded to some steel rectangular
box section with perforated sides that get's set into the ground
(concrete) with the 'track' slightly above the surrounding surface.

There were concave faced nylon wheels set under each end of the gate
to keep it 'on-track'.

The 6" square steel posts are set infront of the track with rollered
guides above the gate to keep the gate upright as it is opened. They
also stop the gate being lifted off it's track when closed.

There was a stop on the gate to prevent it going past the second post
when open and another at the closed end that allows the gate to be
padlocked shut. I would probably also fit a drop bolt in the middle to
help prevent the gate being bent in the middle.

The gate itself would be about 12' wide by 6' high steel box (not
sure what thickness or section would be needed yet) and probably be
constructed to look like two 'gates' from the outside and the 'panels'
infilled on the outside by some suitable wood (floor grade T&G or
thinner cladding stuff over WBP ply for strength).
....

Anyone done similar, any thoughts or reservations etc please?

It sounds not dissimilar to a gate I have, except that the track is an
inverted T section, with twin wheels running each side of the central web
and the span is a bit less - around 3m.

IIRC (I won't be able to check for about a month), the gate section is about
100-125mm by about 50mm. The infil panels are steel, folded slightly along
the diagonals (making extremely shallow pyramids), presumably to keep them
from drumming. My gate closes to a steel post that has a U-shaped piece to
engage with the top of the gate when shut. As it is electrically operated,
using a worm drive, there is no need for a lock.

Colin Bignell

On Tue, 27 Apr 2004 23:44:53 +0100, T i m wrote:

Hi Pete,

I might of got that wrong then? I thought they said they stick the
posts in a big chamber, suck out all (or a lot of) the air, spray in
fluid then thet the air back in (drawing the fluids with it?). I think
that's what they said and it was some years ago now ..?

You're right, they do, though how far it goes into the wood depends on
a few things. The biggie might be that wood is usually treated 'wet',
ie straight after being sawn from the log, making it harder for it
to go far into the wood.

This is fine for stuff above ground like decking, but for below ground
somthing a bit better is needed.

I did also soak them in creosote for a week before planting them?

Again, if the wood is wet then it would tend to stop the creosote
soaking in, especially as creosote is oil based. Creosote can be a
very good wood preserver, otherwise telephone poles would fall over
quite often

For really large timber it may be best to get kiln dried wood and have
it treated to order or treat it yourself.

Anyway, I think I'd prefer steel for this job as it's more
'mechanical' ..

True, should last forever.

cheers,
Pete.

On Wed, 28 Apr 2004 01:55:41 +0100, "nightjar"
wrote:


"T i m" wrote in message
news ...
The 'track' was (would be) a single (25') length of thick walled steel
tube (about 25 mm dia) that was tack welded to some steel rectangular
box section with perforated sides that get's set into the ground
(concrete) with the 'track' slightly above the surrounding surface.

There were concave faced nylon wheels set under each end of the gate
to keep it 'on-track'.

The 6" square steel posts are set infront of the track with rollered
guides above the gate to keep the gate upright as it is opened. They
also stop the gate being lifted off it's track when closed.

There was a stop on the gate to prevent it going past the second post
when open and another at the closed end that allows the gate to be
padlocked shut. I would probably also fit a drop bolt in the middle to
help prevent the gate being bent in the middle.

The gate itself would be about 12' wide by 6' high steel box (not
sure what thickness or section would be needed yet) and probably be
constructed to look like two 'gates' from the outside and the 'panels'
infilled on the outside by some suitable wood (floor grade T&G or
thinner cladding stuff over WBP ply for strength).
...

Anyone done similar, any thoughts or reservations etc please?

Hi Colin,

It sounds not dissimilar to a gate I have, except that the track is an
inverted T section, with twin wheels running each side of the central web

Understood. I was thining about different types of 'track' and
initially questioned the round one, but it sort of makes sense. I
would think it might not attract stones like your inverted 'T' but
might not be quite as 'positive' as yours?

and the span is a bit less - around 3m.

Pretty close though?

IIRC (I won't be able to check for about a month), the gate section is about
100-125mm by about 50mm.

Ok, that confirms my first thoughts about that .. cheers ..

The infil panels are steel, folded slightly along
the diagonals (making extremely shallow pyramids), presumably to keep them
from drumming.

I've seen that on garage doors.

My gate closes to a steel post that has a U-shaped piece to
engage with the top of the gate when shut.

Is the 'U' round the end or over the top (or a bit of both) Colin.
Would there be any way someone could get the gate off it's track by
lifting it up (like with patio doors)?

As it is electrically operated,
using a worm drive, there is no need for a lock.

Very smart ;-) The one I saw was the same with a 'beam' across the
back that stopped the gate if something was in the gap.

I'm not sure my gate will be opened that often so I don't mind a
manual job ;-)

All the best ..

T i m

"T i m" wrote in message
...
....
It sounds not dissimilar to a gate I have, except that the track is an
inverted T section, with twin wheels running each side of the central web

Understood. I was thining about different types of 'track' and
initially questioned the round one, but it sort of makes sense. I
would think it might not attract stones like your inverted 'T' but
might not be quite as 'positive' as yours?

I've not noticed any problems with stones, but the gravel in the drive and
the road outside is 20mm grid, rather than pea gravel. However, I see
nothing wrong with a round track and shaped rollers. I think it would also
be potentially a lot more difficult to damage.

....
My gate closes to a steel post that has a U-shaped piece to
engage with the top of the gate when shut.

Is the 'U' round the end or over the top (or a bit of both) Colin.
Would there be any way someone could get the gate off it's track by
lifting it up (like with patio doors)?

It is simply around the end, so it could, in theory, be lifted at the open
end. However, I don't see that would gain much, except perhaps being able to
dislodge it an inch or two sideways from the track at the bottom. The other
end has a steel bar over it, which carries a pair of guide wheels (and which
sticks out too far, so that I hit my head when I am lubricating the driving
rack), and that end wouldn't lift. Given the weight of the gate, I suspect
it would take a small crane to lift it anyway.

As it is electrically operated,
using a worm drive, there is no need for a lock.

Very smart ;-) The one I saw was the same with a 'beam' across the
back that stopped the gate if something was in the gap.

There is a beam across mine too, between the gate pillars.

I'm not sure my gate will be opened that often so I don't mind a
manual job ;-)

Its very nice to be able to push a button and watch the gate roll back (and
another to watch the garage door go up) when the rain is tipping out of the
sky. Given that this my place in the sun, I've seen far too much rain there.

Colin Bignell