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Smoke (and other) Alarms - best suppliers of compatible ranges?
I'm aiming to buy quite a few smoke (and probably heat) alarms in the
coming week or so. These are for a duplex flat and for our house. It's very difficult looking at web pages of suppliers to work out which ranges are compatible regarding interconnection etc. The Screwfix web site (and catalogue) are hopeless on this front. TLC is better but still not perfect. It's also not at all clear how they're mounted in many cases. I can understand the requirement for the pattress if they're surface mounted but how do you mount them if they're not surface mounted? Do they mount on 'standard' electrical back boxes? So I'd appreciate some help in choosing a suitable range. For the flat I want one Ionisation detector, one optical detector and (maybe) a heat detector. If it's possible to get the two smoke detectors as the type that doubles as a ceiling rose for a light fitting that would be ideal. For the house I want at least two of each type of smoke detector and one heat detector, I might decide to add some more smoke detectors for the more 'out of the way' bedrooms. What's the best type for bedrooms, I'd guess optical rather than ionisation, is that right? Oh, and I think I'm going to go for lithium battery backed up mains devices. Any recommendations for good ranges of compatible alarms would be very welcome. E.g. I need (if possible) a range of mains alarms with lithium battery backup which includes:- Optical smoke detector Ionisation smoke detector Heat Alarm I'd like to be able to mix and match different mounting types and have some which are 'pseudo ceiling rose' alarms. -- Chris Green |
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wrote in message ... I'm aiming to buy quite a few smoke (and probably heat) alarms in the coming week or so. These are for a duplex flat and for our house. It's very difficult looking at web pages of suppliers to work out which ranges are compatible regarding interconnection etc. The Screwfix web site (and catalogue) are hopeless on this front. TLC is better but still not perfect. It's also not at all clear how they're mounted in many cases. I can understand the requirement for the pattress if they're surface mounted but how do you mount them if they're not surface mounted? Do they mount on 'standard' electrical back boxes? So I'd appreciate some help in choosing a suitable range. For the flat I want one Ionisation detector, one optical detector and (maybe) a heat detector. If it's possible to get the two smoke detectors as the type that doubles as a ceiling rose for a light fitting that would be ideal. For the house I want at least two of each type of smoke detector and one heat detector, I might decide to add some more smoke detectors for the more 'out of the way' bedrooms. What's the best type for bedrooms, I'd guess optical rather than ionisation, is that right? Oh, and I think I'm going to go for lithium battery backed up mains devices. Any recommendations for good ranges of compatible alarms would be very welcome. E.g. I need (if possible) a range of mains alarms with lithium battery backup which includes:- Optical smoke detector Ionisation smoke detector Heat Alarm I'd like to be able to mix and match different mounting types and have some which are 'pseudo ceiling rose' alarms. -- Chris Green Local Fire Service will supply and fit for Free BigGuyUK |
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#3
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wrote in message ... I'm aiming to buy quite a few smoke (and probably heat) alarms in the coming week or so. These are for a duplex flat and for our house. It's very difficult looking at web pages of suppliers to work out which ranges are compatible regarding interconnection etc. The Screwfix web site (and catalogue) are hopeless on this front. TLC is better but still not perfect. It's also not at all clear how they're mounted in many cases. I can understand the requirement for the pattress if they're surface mounted but how do you mount them if they're not surface mounted? Do they mount on 'standard' electrical back boxes? So I'd appreciate some help in choosing a suitable range. For the flat I want one Ionisation detector, one optical detector and (maybe) a heat detector. If it's possible to get the two smoke detectors as the type that doubles as a ceiling rose for a light fitting that would be ideal. For the house I want at least two of each type of smoke detector and one heat detector, I might decide to add some more smoke detectors for the more 'out of the way' bedrooms. What's the best type for bedrooms, I'd guess optical rather than ionisation, is that right? Oh, and I think I'm going to go for lithium battery backed up mains devices. Any recommendations for good ranges of compatible alarms would be very welcome. E.g. I need (if possible) a range of mains alarms with lithium battery backup which includes:- Optical smoke detector Ionisation smoke detector Heat Alarm I'd like to be able to mix and match different mounting types and have some which are 'pseudo ceiling rose' alarms. Chris Green You'd be better off with an actual fire control panel and detectors, rather than mains cables running everywhere. Run your detectors in normal PVC T&E but make sure the sounder / alarm bells are made in flame proof cable. One control panel with 3 or 4 zones is very cheap, and only one battery to replace in 6 years time. I do think you'd be better with a fire alarm system all in one. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.802 / Virus Database: 545 - Release Date: 26/11/04 |
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wrote in message ... I'm aiming to buy quite a few smoke (and probably heat) alarms in the coming week or so. These are for a duplex flat and for our house. It's very difficult looking at web pages of suppliers to work out which ranges are compatible regarding interconnection etc. The Screwfix web site (and catalogue) are hopeless on this front. TLC is better but still not perfect. I am sure that you cannot interconnect different makes of smoke alarms. Adam |
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#6
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"BigWallop" wrote
| You'd be better off with an actual fire control panel and detectors, | rather than mains cables running everywhere. Interconnected smoke alarms usually require only *one* triple+E cable to provide power and interconnect functions. Most conventional fire alarm systems will require either 2 x twin, or 1 x triple, for detectors and sounders. There are single-cable systems but they tend to be more expensive. | Run your detectors in normal PVC T&E but make sure the sounder / | alarm bells are made in flame proof cable. I *think* the updated BS now requires detector cabling in fire resistant cable. Many panels specify screened cable anyway, either Firetuff or MICC, for electromagnetic compatibility. | One control panel with 3 or 4 zones is very cheap, and only one | battery to replace in 6 years time. To comply with BS, fire alarm systems require periodic testing and maintenance on contract. That's an unneccesary complexity and expense for a domestic system, and may compromise safety. A cable break will show a fault on a panel system, but could still knock out *every* detector and/or sounder. In a workplace there will be a maintenance contract and a procedure to call out a technican promptly to attend to this; a home user is more likely to switch off the panel and then forget about it. A cable break on an interconnected system should leave some alarms still working. Moreover, interconnected smoke alarms usually provide a self-resetting hush function, which is comparatively rare (and might not be permitted by BS) on panel systems, yet is very useful in a domestic environment to minimise false alarms. | I do think you'd be better with a fire alarm system all in one. In a single family dwelling with half a dozen detectors? Owain |
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| It's also not at all clear how they're mounted in many cases.
| I can understand the requirement for the pattress if they're | surface mounted but how do you mount them if they're not surface | mounted? Do they mount on 'standard' electrical back boxes? Usually a 2" round box - which are obtainable in dry-lining versions for plasterboard ceilings. | I'd like to be able to mix and match different mounting types and | have some which are 'pseudo ceiling rose' alarms. I don't think you can interconnect the ceiling rose type with any other manufacturer's - it would be impossible for a manufacturer to certify compliance with BS for every possible permutation of current and future alarm from other mfrs. I would envisage it is possible to use the ceiling rose type as an alarm without having a pendant lamp dangling from it. *Possibly* it could be used with the battery-back-up light remotely wired, if there is through access from the ceilign side to the pendant terminals. Owain |
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BigGuyUK wrote:
Local Fire Service will supply and fit for Free BigGuyUK My 'local fire service' doesn't even respond to enquiries. -- Chris Green |
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#9
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ARWadsworth wrote:
wrote in message ... I'm aiming to buy quite a few smoke (and probably heat) alarms in the coming week or so. These are for a duplex flat and for our house. It's very difficult looking at web pages of suppliers to work out which ranges are compatible regarding interconnection etc. The Screwfix web site (and catalogue) are hopeless on this front. TLC is better but still not perfect. I am sure that you cannot interconnect different makes of smoke alarms. Exactly! But the web sites don't indicate which alarms are of the same make and/or compatible. This was what I was complaining about originally. -- Chris Green |
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#12
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In article , Bob Eager
writes On Thu, 2 Dec 2004 21:00:45 UTC, (Gel) wrote: Kidde ones on TLC website use a mounting plate [provided with alarm]; this has knockouts for standard dry lining boxes[round or square]; this of course assumes you have the ceiling void access available to you. The ones I mentioned from CPC: SR00837 - pattress 265048 - ionisation alarm 265055 - optical alarm 265054 - heat detector All made by Firex. Yes I've heard them recommended by some local electrical contractors as being "trouble free"... -- Tony Sayer |
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#13
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They fit battery ones in some areas; typically
for less abled people/high risk groups, and other PC correct groups. wrote in message ... BigGuyUK wrote: Local Fire Service will supply and fit for Free BigGuyUK My 'local fire service' doesn't even respond to enquiries. |
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"Gel" wrote in message om... With drylining recessed box you provide the term block; Regs demand this must be fixed; ensure your dry lining box has peg in for term block to slide onto. Why do they ask for term to be fixed ? I've been using standard 4 pin round junction boxes in the voids. Do these have to be secured ? |
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#15
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I've ,looked at CPC and they look like Firex though site doesn't say,
and many listed have no image at all; and prices are considerably more than TLC's! Reg states terminal blocks must not be floating, presumably because of worries of stain on cabling may release one strand's connection. "Mike" wrote in message ... "Gel" wrote in message om... With drylining recessed box you provide the term block; Regs demand this must be fixed; ensure your dry lining box has peg in for term block to slide onto. Why do they ask for term to be fixed ? I've been using standard 4 pin round junction boxes in the voids. Do these have to be secured ? |
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#16
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Gel wrote:
wrote in message ... BigGuyUK wrote: Local Fire Service will supply and fit for Free BigGuyUK My 'local fire service' doesn't even respond to enquiries. They fit battery ones in some areas; typically for less abled people/high risk groups, and other PC correct groups. I assumed that this would be so but it hardly seemed worth pointing out to BigGuyUK that it seemed exceedingly unlikely that this would be any use to me. (It really seemed rather unlikely that pointing out anything to someone called 'BigGuyUK' would do much good actually) -- Chris Green |
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#17
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Thanks for your helpful responses Owain.
Owain wrote: | It's also not at all clear how they're mounted in many cases. | I can understand the requirement for the pattress if they're | surface mounted but how do you mount them if they're not surface | mounted? Do they mount on 'standard' electrical back boxes? Usually a 2" round box - which are obtainable in dry-lining versions for plasterboard ceilings. Why aren't they listed with the smoke alarms? In many cases it sounds as if the pattresses are the *only* way of mounting the alarms. As I said none of the web sites I've looked at are very helpful on this front. | I'd like to be able to mix and match different mounting types and | have some which are 'pseudo ceiling rose' alarms. I don't think you can interconnect the ceiling rose type with any other manufacturer's - it would be impossible for a manufacturer to certify compliance with BS for every possible permutation of current and future alarm from other mfrs. I would envisage it is possible to use the ceiling rose type as an alarm without having a pendant lamp dangling from it. *Possibly* it could be used with the battery-back-up light remotely wired, if there is through access from the ceilign side to the pendant terminals. I've been hunting around a bit more and it would appear that there are fewer of the ceiling rose type alarms that there used to be and those that I've found are horrible expensive. Thus it would seem that I'll have to forget about the ceiling rose approach (it was more for the flat than the house). So I'm now just after compatible ionisation, optical and heat alarms which can be surface or flush mounted, mains operated with lithium battery backup. -- Chris Green |
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#18
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Gel wrote:
Kidde ones on TLC website use a mounting plate [provided with alarm]; this has knockouts for standard dry lining boxes[round or square]; this of course assumes you have the ceiling void access available to you. They have loose battery back up or sealed in Lithium with 10 Year Guarantee too; well worth extra cost. Yes, the TLC site (and its links to Kidde) has been the most useful site I've found so far. Thanks for the extra information regarding how the alarms can be mounted on standard dry lining boxes, that's one of the major bits of information I wanted. If not, you'd need the surface pattress too; this is fixed to ceiling, and accepts mini trunking entry; the pattress has 4 way terminal block in. Cable harness with alarm plugs into back of alarms, and flying leads {3] go into terminal block. With drylining recessed box you provide the term block; Regs demand this must be fixed; ensure your dry lining box has peg in for term block to slide onto. How much less do the alarms stick out when on a dry-lining box as opposed to a surface mount one? -- Chris Green |
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Bob Eager wrote:
On Thu, 2 Dec 2004 21:00:45 UTC, (Gel) wrote: Kidde ones on TLC website use a mounting plate [provided with alarm]; this has knockouts for standard dry lining boxes[round or square]; this of course assumes you have the ceiling void access available to you. The ones I mentioned from CPC: SR00837 - pattress 265048 - ionisation alarm 265055 - optical alarm 265054 - heat detector Thanks Bob -- Chris Green |
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#20
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wrote in message ...
ARWadsworth wrote: wrote in message ... I'm aiming to buy quite a few smoke (and probably heat) alarms in the coming week or so. These are for a duplex flat and for our house. It's very difficult looking at web pages of suppliers to work out which ranges are compatible regarding interconnection etc. The Screwfix web site (and catalogue) are hopeless on this front. TLC is better but still not perfect. I am sure that you cannot interconnect different makes of smoke alarms. Exactly! But the web sites don't indicate which alarms are of the same make and/or compatible. This was what I was complaining about originally. fully agree - wonder what happens a few years down the road when a lot of people have interconnected alarms & need to add or replace one, but the original manufacturer's products aren't available/have been upgraded & incompatible, etc etc. I reckon your best bet is to pick the models that you like, then if they're different manufacturers ring the tech departments & say "I've got an existing installation with the other manufacturer's product installed & want to add one of your products - will it be compatible?" If you say "I'm thinking of fitting this product from you and that from another manufacturer" you may get the answer "oh, we'd always advise that you choose all from the same manufacturer - ours are best in this case" rather than the actual case where it is/isn't technically possible. I'm really surprised that the various BSs applicable don't define interconnection standards, though. -- Richard Sampson mail me at richard at olifant d-ot co do-t uk |
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wrote:
Bob Eager wrote: On Thu, 2 Dec 2004 21:00:45 UTC, (Gel) wrote: Kidde ones on TLC website use a mounting plate [provided with alarm]; this has knockouts for standard dry lining boxes[round or square]; this of course assumes you have the ceiling void access available to you. The ones I mentioned from CPC: SR00837 - pattress 265048 - ionisation alarm 265055 - optical alarm 265054 - heat detector Thanks Bob However I can't find any of the above numbers (or anything like them) on the CPC web site. -- Chris Green |
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#22
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Any recommendations for good ranges of compatible alarms would be very
welcome. E.g. I need (if possible) a range of mains alarms with lithium battery backup which includes:- I fitted Kidde Fyrnetics types. They have each type available. The pattresses are optional and allow all the cabling to be installed and tested before the alarms are fitted. They are not necessary and quite ugly for residential property. They also provide a relay module, which I've connected up to the fire circuit on my intruder alarm. For some reason, they provide it within one of the ugly pattresses, but the module itself is small and seems equally happy housed within an enclosure next to the alarm panel in the understairs cupboard. I'd like to be able to mix and match different mounting types and have some which are 'pseudo ceiling rose' alarms. I don't remember seeing these. I think it is best to separate light and smoke detectors, though. Christian. |
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#24
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Bob Eager wrote:
On Fri, 3 Dec 2004 10:56:39 UTC, wrote: The ones I mentioned from CPC: SR00837 - pattress 265048 - ionisation alarm 265055 - optical alarm 265054 - heat detector Thanks Bob However I can't find any of the above numbers (or anything like them) on the CPC web site. They're not easy to find - which is why I looked up the numbers for you! Type them into the Search box.. I did exactly that and got nothing. I also tried the advanced search and still got nothing. Searching for Firex doesn't show anything either. -- Chris Green |
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Bob Eager wrote:
On Fri, 3 Dec 2004 12:52:32 UTC, wrote: Type them into the Search box.. I did exactly that and got nothing. I also tried the advanced search and still got nothing. Searching for Firex doesn't show anything either. Since I did my order they have a new catalogue and it looks as if the numbers are more 'usual' ones (in the CPC style)... SR00837 - pattress SR00840 - ionisation SR00842 - smoke SR01487 - heat Aha, thanks. I'd actually found them but since the web site doesn't indicate that the alarms are Firex ones it's not clear that the pattress (which is branded Firex) goes with the alarms. Now at least I know which bits go together. -- Chris Green |
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#27
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#28
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Do you connect to NO or NC contacts on panel as matter of interest.
"Christian McArdle" wrote in message .net... Any recommendations for good ranges of compatible alarms would be very welcome. E.g. I need (if possible) a range of mains alarms with lithium battery backup which includes:- I fitted Kidde Fyrnetics types. They have each type available. The pattresses are optional and allow all the cabling to be installed and tested before the alarms are fitted. They are not necessary and quite ugly for residential property. They also provide a relay module, which I've connected up to the fire circuit on my intruder alarm. For some reason, they provide it within one of the ugly pattresses, but the module itself is small and seems equally happy housed within an enclosure next to the alarm panel in the understairs cupboard. I'd like to be able to mix and match different mounting types and have some which are 'pseudo ceiling rose' alarms. I don't remember seeing these. I think it is best to separate light and smoke detectors, though. Christian. |
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#29
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wrote in message ... Gel wrote: Kidde ones on TLC website use a mounting plate [provided with alarm]; this has knockouts for standard dry lining boxes[round or square]; this of course assumes you have the ceiling void access available to you. They have loose battery back up or sealed in Lithium with 10 Year Guarantee too; well worth extra cost. Yes, the TLC site (and its links to Kidde) has been the most useful site I've found so far. Thanks for the extra information regarding how the alarms can be mounted on standard dry lining boxes, that's one of the major bits of information I wanted. If not, you'd need the surface pattress too; this is fixed to ceiling, and accepts mini trunking entry; the pattress has 4 way terminal block in. Cable harness with alarm plugs into back of alarms, and flying leads {3] go into terminal block. With drylining recessed box you provide the term block; Regs demand this must be fixed; ensure your dry lining box has peg in for term block to slide onto. How much less do the alarms stick out when on a dry-lining box as opposed to a surface mount one? They are like a normal battery alarm. i.e. quite sensible. |
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#30
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"Gel" wrote in message m... I've ,looked at CPC and they look like Firex though site doesn't say, and many listed have no image at all; and prices are considerably more than TLC's! Reg states terminal blocks must not be floating, presumably because of worries of stain on cabling may release one strand's connection. I've glued them down as it was easiest to do. Odd how a fire alarm connection could come loose but one to a lightbulb doesn't :-) |
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#31
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All part of the increasing UK Nanny State!
No doubt in future we'll also be told to only do work, when wearing safety boots/safety gloves/safety glasses etc etc! "Mike" wrote in message ... "Gel" wrote in message m... I've ,looked at CPC and they look like Firex though site doesn't say, and many listed have no image at all; and prices are considerably more than TLC's! Reg states terminal blocks must not be floating, presumably because of worries of stain on cabling may release one strand's connection. I've glued them down as it was easiest to do. Odd how a fire alarm connection could come loose but one to a lightbulb doesn't :-) |
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#32
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Extra depth is 20mm.
"Mike" wrote in message ... wrote in message ... Gel wrote: Kidde ones on TLC website use a mounting plate [provided with alarm]; this has knockouts for standard dry lining boxes[round or square]; this of course assumes you have the ceiling void access available to you. They have loose battery back up or sealed in Lithium with 10 Year Guarantee too; well worth extra cost. Yes, the TLC site (and its links to Kidde) has been the most useful site I've found so far. Thanks for the extra information regarding how the alarms can be mounted on standard dry lining boxes, that's one of the major bits of information I wanted. If not, you'd need the surface pattress too; this is fixed to ceiling, and accepts mini trunking entry; the pattress has 4 way terminal block in. Cable harness with alarm plugs into back of alarms, and flying leads {3] go into terminal block. With drylining recessed box you provide the term block; Regs demand this must be fixed; ensure your dry lining box has peg in for term block to slide onto. How much less do the alarms stick out when on a dry-lining box as opposed to a surface mount one? They are like a normal battery alarm. i.e. quite sensible. |
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#33
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"Gel" wrote in message om... Extra depth is 20mm. The ones I got from TLC are only 5mm more than the battery ones they replaced. "Mike" wrote in message ... wrote in message ... Gel wrote: Kidde ones on TLC website use a mounting plate [provided with alarm]; this has knockouts for standard dry lining boxes[round or square]; this of course assumes you have the ceiling void access available to you. They have loose battery back up or sealed in Lithium with 10 Year Guarantee too; well worth extra cost. Yes, the TLC site (and its links to Kidde) has been the most useful site I've found so far. Thanks for the extra information regarding how the alarms can be mounted on standard dry lining boxes, that's one of the major bits of information I wanted. If not, you'd need the surface pattress too; this is fixed to ceiling, and accepts mini trunking entry; the pattress has 4 way terminal block in. Cable harness with alarm plugs into back of alarms, and flying leads {3] go into terminal block. With drylining recessed box you provide the term block; Regs demand this must be fixed; ensure your dry lining box has peg in for term block to slide onto. How much less do the alarms stick out when on a dry-lining box as opposed to a surface mount one? They are like a normal battery alarm. i.e. quite sensible. |
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#34
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Do you connect to NO or NC contacts on panel as matter of interest.
They are break connection to alarm (i.e. NC), like the intruder sensors. The relay module has NC and NO contacts, so this is not an issue. Christian. |
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