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  #1   Report Post  
Al
 
Posts: n/a
Default Overcharged by a plumber ?

Recently I had to have some emergency work done on my central heating
boiler. At the time, the work HAD to be done, so I didn't question the
cost. I was informed in advance as to the cost of the parts and
requested a nbreakdown of the cost of each part on the invoice.
However, it wasn't until after I had paid (by VISA) that I investigated
the price of each individual part online.

I compared the online price with the manufacturers price and, where
possible, the B&Q price. The average overall price for the four parts
was UKP240 plus VAT. I was charged UKP657 plus VAT. Note that the
labour charge was costed separately.

I have written to the company to request, politely, an explanation for
the difference and today I received a reply clarifying this.
Apparently, as the company offer a 'rapid response service, the high
cost of offering this service" is reflected in their charges and their
part mark up.

Funny, I thought UKP47.50 for each half hour labour charge would use
that ecxcuse.

So, experts out there, do I have any justification in pursuing this
further, or do I just put it down to experience and accept that I
should have got more written quotes and gone with a recommended plumber
rather than Yellow Pages.

  #2   Report Post  
Bob Mannix
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Al" wrote in message
oups.com...
Recently I had to have some emergency work done on my central heating
boiler. At the time, the work HAD to be done, so I didn't question the
cost. I was informed in advance as to the cost of the parts and
requested a nbreakdown of the cost of each part on the invoice.
However, it wasn't until after I had paid (by VISA) that I investigated
the price of each individual part online.

I compared the online price with the manufacturers price and, where
possible, the B&Q price. The average overall price for the four parts
was UKP240 plus VAT. I was charged UKP657 plus VAT. Note that the
labour charge was costed separately.

I have written to the company to request, politely, an explanation for
the difference and today I received a reply clarifying this.
Apparently, as the company offer a 'rapid response service, the high
cost of offering this service" is reflected in their charges and their
part mark up.

Funny, I thought UKP47.50 for each half hour labour charge would use
that ecxcuse.

So, experts out there, do I have any justification in pursuing this
further, or do I just put it down to experience and accept that I
should have got more written quotes and gone with a recommended plumber
rather than Yellow Pages.


No, yes, yes, yes.

You can charge anything you like if the purchaser is told the (correct)
price in advance (as seems to be the case here). Had they said it would be
"about £average cost you found" and then charged £their price, you might
have had a case.


--
Bob Mannix
(anti-spam is as easy as 1-2-3 - not)



  #3   Report Post  
BitsNBobs
 
Posts: n/a
Default

For robbing *******s like that I'd also be querying if those parts actually
needed replacing.

I'd report them to trading standards - do as much as you can to ruin them.



"Al" wrote in message
oups.com...
Recently I had to have some emergency work done on my central heating
boiler. At the time, the work HAD to be done, so I didn't question the
cost. I was informed in advance as to the cost of the parts and
requested a nbreakdown of the cost of each part on the invoice.
However, it wasn't until after I had paid (by VISA) that I investigated
the price of each individual part online.

I compared the online price with the manufacturers price and, where
possible, the B&Q price. The average overall price for the four parts
was UKP240 plus VAT. I was charged UKP657 plus VAT. Note that the
labour charge was costed separately.

I have written to the company to request, politely, an explanation for
the difference and today I received a reply clarifying this.
Apparently, as the company offer a 'rapid response service, the high
cost of offering this service" is reflected in their charges and their
part mark up.

Funny, I thought UKP47.50 for each half hour labour charge would use
that ecxcuse.

So, experts out there, do I have any justification in pursuing this
further, or do I just put it down to experience and accept that I
should have got more written quotes and gone with a recommended plumber
rather than Yellow Pages.



  #4   Report Post  
ABC
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Al" wrote in message
oups.com...
Recently I had to have some emergency work done on my central heating
boiler. At the time, the work HAD to be done, so I didn't question the
cost. I was informed in advance as to the cost of the parts and
requested a nbreakdown of the cost of each part on the invoice.
However, it wasn't until after I had paid (by VISA) that I investigated
the price of each individual part online.

I compared the online price with the manufacturers price and, where
possible, the B&Q price. The average overall price for the four parts
was UKP240 plus VAT. I was charged UKP657 plus VAT. Note that the
labour charge was costed separately.

I have written to the company to request, politely, an explanation for
the difference and today I received a reply clarifying this.
Apparently, as the company offer a 'rapid response service, the high
cost of offering this service" is reflected in their charges and their
part mark up.

Funny, I thought UKP47.50 for each half hour labour charge would use
that ecxcuse.

So, experts out there, do I have any justification in pursuing this
further, or do I just put it down to experience and accept that I
should have got more written quotes and gone with a recommended plumber
rather than Yellow Pages.

Name and shame them on www.blagger.com

S


  #5   Report Post  
mrcheerful
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Al" wrote in message
oups.com...
Recently I had to have some emergency work done on my central heating
boiler. At the time, the work HAD to be done, so I didn't question the
cost. I was informed in advance as to the cost of the parts and
requested a nbreakdown of the cost of each part on the invoice.
However, it wasn't until after I had paid (by VISA) that I investigated
the price of each individual part online.

I compared the online price with the manufacturers price and, where
possible, the B&Q price. The average overall price for the four parts
was UKP240 plus VAT. I was charged UKP657 plus VAT. Note that the
labour charge was costed separately.

I have written to the company to request, politely, an explanation for
the difference and today I received a reply clarifying this.
Apparently, as the company offer a 'rapid response service, the high
cost of offering this service" is reflected in their charges and their
part mark up.

Funny, I thought UKP47.50 for each half hour labour charge would use
that ecxcuse.

So, experts out there, do I have any justification in pursuing this
further, or do I just put it down to experience and accept that I
should have got more written quotes and gone with a recommended plumber
rather than Yellow Pages.


If it was eemergency work, then you pay what they ask, if you think about
having something done and ask for a quote in advance you can then argue
about the price before the work is done. It doesn't sound as though the
plumbers have done anything wrong, they may be expensive but they did the
job, end of story.

Next time check up first. In any case, unless you have someone in dire need
of being kept warm how can it be a true emergency?, turn the water off if
necessary, get a fan heater out and fix it in the morning/next week.

mrcheerful




  #6   Report Post  
The Natural Philosopher
 
Posts: n/a
Default

BitsNBobs wrote:

For robbing *******s like that I'd also be querying if those parts actually
needed replacing.


Quite. 50% of them will probably be used to fix the next emergency job
they have.

I rememberyears ago me mums valve telly going on teh blink (rental) the
bloke camne witha load of valves, and just replaced em one by one till
the set worked.

The last valve he replaced went in a box marked 'duff'

I asked what he had replaced all teh others for 'its quicker mate, we
just replace em all. Your mum's valves will go into the next set I visit'

Fault finding by a process of elminiation...

Speaking of which anyone want a power supply module for a Design jet
printer? It doesn't work, but probably only needs a transistor
replacing..lacking gear to test, I simply swapped it for a new one at 90
quid cost...


I'd report them to trading standards - do as much as you can to ruin them.



"Al" wrote in message
oups.com...

Recently I had to have some emergency work done on my central heating
boiler. At the time, the work HAD to be done, so I didn't question the
cost. I was informed in advance as to the cost of the parts and
requested a nbreakdown of the cost of each part on the invoice.
However, it wasn't until after I had paid (by VISA) that I investigated
the price of each individual part online.

I compared the online price with the manufacturers price and, where
possible, the B&Q price. The average overall price for the four parts
was UKP240 plus VAT. I was charged UKP657 plus VAT. Note that the
labour charge was costed separately.

I have written to the company to request, politely, an explanation for
the difference and today I received a reply clarifying this.
Apparently, as the company offer a 'rapid response service, the high
cost of offering this service" is reflected in their charges and their
part mark up.

Funny, I thought UKP47.50 for each half hour labour charge would use
that ecxcuse.

So, experts out there, do I have any justification in pursuing this
further, or do I just put it down to experience and accept that I
should have got more written quotes and gone with a recommended plumber
rather than Yellow Pages.




  #7   Report Post  
Dave Plowman (News)
 
Posts: n/a
Default

In article .com,
Al wrote:
Recently I had to have some emergency work done on my central heating
boiler. At the time, the work HAD to be done, so I didn't question the
cost. I was informed in advance as to the cost of the parts and
requested a nbreakdown of the cost of each part on the invoice.


If they gave you the individual costs before they started work as
requested, then you've accepted them by allowing the work to start.

However, it wasn't until after I had paid (by VISA) that I investigated
the price of each individual part online.


You can always find a cheaper supplier if you look long and hard enough.
But if you expect your repairer to also do this, would you be happy at him
charging the time to do this at his standard hourly rate? And then the
collection charges for obtaining these parts from wherever? Or the wait
while they're delivered and that they might not be in stock?

Also, were they truly identical items? I know to my cost that cheap shed
TRVs don't last anything like as long as decent make ones. So to make any
true comparison, they must be exactly the same make and model.

--
*Marathon runners with bad footwear suffer the agony of defeat.*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
  #8   Report Post  
StealthUK
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Never call emergency plumbers in the Yellow Pages - it's full of
crooks - especially the full and half page ads. They normally have a
picture of an old man standing next to his van clutching his bag of
tools. Oh, you think, they look like a professional outfit, they won't
rob me!

I'd pursue it. Just because you've been given a breakdown of the parts
beforehand doesn't mean you have to accept it.
You pay high rates for labour in an emergency, there is no
justification for charging almost 3 times for parts. If anything they
should be able to get the parts cheaper than you as they will get a
trade discount.
  #9   Report Post  
Stephen Dawson
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"StealthUK" wrote in message
om...
Never call emergency plumbers in the Yellow Pages - it's full of
crooks - especially the full and half page ads. They normally have a
picture of an old man standing next to his van clutching his bag of
tools. Oh, you think, they look like a professional outfit, they won't
rob me!

I'd pursue it. Just because you've been given a breakdown of the parts
beforehand doesn't mean you have to accept it.
You pay high rates for labour in an emergency, there is no
justification for charging almost 3 times for parts. If anything they
should be able to get the parts cheaper than you as they will get a
trade discount.


But the point here is that he called them to work. They charged a price
which he accepted at the time. After the event he has gone looking to
justify the shock of the expense, and found out what he has been charged is
far in excess of what he thought he should pay. But one thing has been
forgotten, they fixed your problem didnt they?


  #10   Report Post  
Al
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Bob Mannix ) wrote:-

You can charge anything you like if the purchaser is told the (correct)
price in advance (as seems to be the case here). Had they said it would be
"about £average cost you found" and then charged £their price, you might
have had a case.


mrcheerful . ) wrote:-

It doesn't sound as though the
plumbers have done anything wrong, they may be expensive but they did the
job, end of story.


Dave Plowman (News) ) wrote:-

If they gave you the individual costs before they started work as
requested, then you've accepted them by allowing the work to start.


What I was told: the fan had gone initially, I was told how much THAT
would be (with a switch), replacing that it half-worked but wouldn't
fire up properly. The PCB had failed (the replacement had a fuse on it
which the original didn't). I was told how much the PCB would be.
Replacing the PCB blew the fuse (twice). He traced in back to the pump
and I was told how much THAT would be.

So it just sort of accummulated, not all in one hit.

It all sounded very plausible to the novice, but just leaves a nasty
taste, especially after checking the price that 'I' could get the
parts for.

StealthUK ) wrote:-

I'd pursue it. Just because you've been given a breakdown of the parts
beforehand doesn't mean you have to accept it.
You pay high rates for labour in an emergency, there is no
justification for charging almost 3 times for parts. If anything they
should be able to get the parts cheaper than you as they will get a
trade discount.


This is true.

Thanks for the input guys. However, I need to be pretty confident of
my position to pursue it further.

It would be helpful if the trading standards website gave the ability
to post a question to them to SEE if there's just cause to take
matters further.

Just a matter of being charged a lot for the parts might not be
enough, but warning anyone else to be more careful (and making sure
that the 1000 people that work where I do and have access to our
company intranet are not recommended these guys might satisfy me
enough.


  #11   Report Post  
Cicero
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Al" wrote in message
om...
Bob Mannix ) wrote:-

You can charge anything you like if the purchaser is told the (correct)
price in advance (as seems to be the case here). Had they said it would

be
"about £average cost you found" and then charged £their price, you

might
have had a case.


mrcheerful . ) wrote:-

It doesn't sound as though the
plumbers have done anything wrong, they may be expensive but they did

the
job, end of story.


Dave Plowman (News) ) wrote:-

If they gave you the individual costs before they started work as
requested, then you've accepted them by allowing the work to start.


What I was told: the fan had gone initially, I was told how much THAT
would be (with a switch), replacing that it half-worked but wouldn't
fire up properly. The PCB had failed (the replacement had a fuse on it
which the original didn't). I was told how much the PCB would be.
Replacing the PCB blew the fuse (twice). He traced in back to the pump
and I was told how much THAT would be.

So it just sort of accummulated, not all in one hit.

It all sounded very plausible to the novice, but just leaves a nasty
taste, especially after checking the price that 'I' could get the
parts for.

StealthUK ) wrote:-

I'd pursue it. Just because you've been given a breakdown of the parts
beforehand doesn't mean you have to accept it.
You pay high rates for labour in an emergency, there is no
justification for charging almost 3 times for parts. If anything they
should be able to get the parts cheaper than you as they will get a
trade discount.


This is true.

Thanks for the input guys. However, I need to be pretty confident of
my position to pursue it further.

It would be helpful if the trading standards website gave the ability
to post a question to them to SEE if there's just cause to take
matters further.

Just a matter of being charged a lot for the parts might not be
enough, but warning anyone else to be more careful (and making sure
that the 1000 people that work where I do and have access to our
company intranet are not recommended these guys might satisfy me
enough.


================
I fully agree with the principle of 'look before you leap' but in your case
I think you *might* have a a genuine grievance. There was a case early this
year in the Midlands where a gas fitter / plumber was adjudged to have
charged a grossly excessive markup on supplied parts. Basically the
judgement was that a person has a right to be charged a 'fair' price for any
spare parts. I think the case was brought by Wolverhampton Trading Standards
and it might be worth a call to them to get the details. Of course the
matter hinges on what is a 'fair price' but since you appear to have been
charged nearly three times the average price that might be considered an
excessive price.

If Wolverhampton Trading Standards is not the correct office then you might
get the details from the 'Express & Star' newspaper since they keep quite a
good index of recent stories and it was certainly reported there.

Cic.


  #12   Report Post  
Bob Mannix
 
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"Al" wrote in message
om...
Bob Mannix ) wrote:-

You can charge anything you like if the purchaser is told the (correct)
price in advance (as seems to be the case here). Had they said it would

be
"about £average cost you found" and then charged £their price, you

might
have had a case.


mrcheerful . ) wrote:-

It doesn't sound as though the
plumbers have done anything wrong, they may be expensive but they did

the
job, end of story.


Dave Plowman (News) ) wrote:-

If they gave you the individual costs before they started work as
requested, then you've accepted them by allowing the work to start.


What I was told: the fan had gone initially, I was told how much THAT
would be (with a switch), replacing that it half-worked but wouldn't
fire up properly. The PCB had failed (the replacement had a fuse on it
which the original didn't). I was told how much the PCB would be.
Replacing the PCB blew the fuse (twice). He traced in back to the pump
and I was told how much THAT would be.

So it just sort of accummulated, not all in one hit.

It all sounded very plausible to the novice, but just leaves a nasty
taste, especially after checking the price that 'I' could get the
parts for.


I wasn't suggesting that the plumber was other than morally reprehensible! I
assumed you meant "pursue it further legally". As you were told the prices
beforehand, I don't think you could pursue it legally - it isn't illegal to
"overcharge" (whatever that means) - otherwise perfume manufacturers would
be out of business.

If you meant pursue it further by naming and shaming, writing to complain
etc., carry on! If they are members of a "professional" organisation, you
could also complain to them. You could name them here, for example, as a
warning to others.

If any of the charges were not told to you beforehand OR it turns out some
of the work was unnecessary, that's a different story and you would have to
do a cost/benefit analysis on whether it was worth doing anything or just
better to chalk it up to experience.


--
Bob Mannix
(anti-spam is as easy as 1-2-3 - not)



  #13   Report Post  
Michael Mcneil
 
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"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message


I rememberyears ago me mums valve telly going on teh blink (rental) the
bloke camne witha load of valves, and just replaced em one by one till
the set worked.


The last valve he replaced went in a box marked 'duff'


I asked what he had replaced all teh others for 'its quicker mate, we
just replace em all. Your mum's valves will go into the next set I visit'


Fault finding by a process of elminiation...


What one used to do was replace the ones that remained unlit when
switched on.

Nowadays the array of panels is replaced one by one as they can not be
seen to be disfunctional. I don't know much about the innards of TVs by
the way.

I suppose the different cards are known to produce different effects on
the screen rather in the manner of the different cards on would find in
a computer?


--
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG
  #14   Report Post  
RichardS
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"Bob Mannix" wrote in message
...

"Al" wrote in message
om...
Bob Mannix ) wrote:-

You can charge anything you like if the purchaser is told the

(correct)
price in advance (as seems to be the case here). Had they said it

would
be
"about £average cost you found" and then charged £their price, you

might
have had a case.


mrcheerful . ) wrote:-

It doesn't sound as though the
plumbers have done anything wrong, they may be expensive but they did

the
job, end of story.


Dave Plowman (News) ) wrote:-

If they gave you the individual costs before they started work as
requested, then you've accepted them by allowing the work to start.


What I was told: the fan had gone initially, I was told how much THAT
would be (with a switch), replacing that it half-worked but wouldn't
fire up properly. The PCB had failed (the replacement had a fuse on it
which the original didn't). I was told how much the PCB would be.
Replacing the PCB blew the fuse (twice). He traced in back to the pump
and I was told how much THAT would be.

So it just sort of accummulated, not all in one hit.

It all sounded very plausible to the novice, but just leaves a nasty
taste, especially after checking the price that 'I' could get the
parts for.


I wasn't suggesting that the plumber was other than morally reprehensible!

I
assumed you meant "pursue it further legally". As you were told the prices
beforehand, I don't think you could pursue it legally - it isn't illegal

to
"overcharge" (whatever that means) - otherwise perfume manufacturers would
be out of business.

If you meant pursue it further by naming and shaming, writing to complain
etc., carry on! If they are members of a "professional" organisation, you
could also complain to them. You could name them here, for example, as a
warning to others.

If any of the charges were not told to you beforehand OR it turns out some
of the work was unnecessary, that's a different story and you would have

to
do a cost/benefit analysis on whether it was worth doing anything or just
better to chalk it up to experience.


I think that this is where Cicero's post is interesting and might offer hope
in this situation. There has been quite a move in recent years to try and
clamp down on the worst excesses of overcharging, and it might just be
possible that there is precedent or power for someone like Trading Standards
to act.

If I were the OP, I'd pretty much put the ordeal down to experience & give
some thought as to how I'd never get caught like this again - I'm sure he
has. This brings back memories for me of 10 years ago when I felt similarly
stung when foolishly letting an MOT testing station carry out remedial work
to get a car through the test. Fortunately this was only something like
£150, but that was back when I could ill afford to cough out that amount
without it hurting.

However, I'd also be talking to either CAB or Trading Standards, to see
whether there is precedent and something that can be done about it.

A reasonable mark-up for immediate availability of parts can be expected,
but this markup (what, must be 170%??) would be difficult to justify,
especially when there are many heating engineers who carry considerable
stock of spares without anything like this markup.


--
Richard Sampson

mail me at
richard at olifant d-ot co do-t uk


  #15   Report Post  
Dave Plowman (News)
 
Posts: n/a
Default

In article ,
Al wrote:
What I was told: the fan had gone initially, I was told how much THAT
would be (with a switch), replacing that it half-worked but wouldn't
fire up properly. The PCB had failed (the replacement had a fuse on it
which the original didn't). I was told how much the PCB would be.
Replacing the PCB blew the fuse (twice). He traced in back to the pump
and I was told how much THAT would be.


So it just sort of accummulated, not all in one hit.


It all sounded very plausible to the novice, but just leaves a nasty
taste, especially after checking the price that 'I' could get the
parts for.


Think you really need to state which parts were replaced, the make and
model and the price charged for each.

--
*Two wrongs are only the beginning *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.


  #17   Report Post  
Dave Plowman (News)
 
Posts: n/a
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In article lgate.org,
Michael Mcneil wrote:
What one used to do was replace the ones that remained unlit when
switched on.


Valve TVs had most of the heaters in series.

--
*Taxation WITH representation ain't much fun, either.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
  #18   Report Post  
Tony Bryer
 
Posts: n/a
Default

In article , The Natural
Philosopher wrote:
I rememberyears ago me mums valve telly going on teh blink (rental)
the bloke camne witha load of valves, and just replaced em one by
one till the set worked.


Back in my childhood (early 1960's) now and again all the valves
would be removed from our radio and taken down to the local shop
which had a Mullard valve tester: they'd plug in the valve and a
punched bakelite card which had the settings for the valve in
question. Amazingly Google produced a picture of same:

http://www.thevalvepage.com/testeq/m...test/vtest.htm

Usually one was below spec and replaced, but it was probably the
periodic unplugging and plugging that cleaned the contacts that
really helped.

What became of Mullard: they were still making transistors in my
teenage days IIRC?

--
Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk
Free SEDBUK boiler database browser http://www.sda.co.uk/qsedbuk.htm


  #19   Report Post  
Owain
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"Al" wrote
| Dave Plowman (News) wrote:-
| If they gave you the individual costs before they started work as
| requested, then you've accepted them by allowing the work to start.
| What I was told: the fan had gone initially, I was told how much THAT
| would be (with a switch), replacing that it half-worked but wouldn't
| fire up properly. The PCB had failed (the replacement had a fuse on it
| which the original didn't). I was told how much the PCB would be.
| Replacing the PCB blew the fuse (twice). He traced in back to the pump
| and I was told how much THAT would be.
| So it just sort of accummulated, not all in one hit.

I don't think you have cause for complaint over the price of parts - you
accepted the prices they gave - but if the fault was actually in the pump
then I think you are entitled to expect the plumber to use reasonable care
and skill to locate the fault and not charge you for replacement parts which
possibly were unneccessary.

Do you still have the old parts - if there was nothing wrong with the fan or
PCB you shouldn't be charged for replacing them.

| It would be helpful if the trading standards website gave the ability
| to post a question to them to SEE if there's just cause to take
| matters further.

If you find the Consumer Direct website there is a contact form on that. If
you fill it in and you are in the areas covered by the service one of their
advisers will email back to you.

Owain


  #20   Report Post  
StealthUK
 
Posts: n/a
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"Stephen Dawson" wrote in message ...


But the point here is that he called them to work. They charged a price
which he accepted at the time. After the event he has gone looking to
justify the shock of the expense, and found out what he has been charged is
far in excess of what he thought he should pay. But one thing has been
forgotten, they fixed your problem didnt they?



Yes, he called them but that doesn't give them a licence to rob
people. Would the average Joe have a clue as to what these parts cost?
No, you rely on the firm to charge reasonable prices. It's not as if
you're going to get the opportunity to find out parts prices for
yourself in an emergency call-out beforehand either.

So, they fixed the problem - big deal. Most rogue traders ultimately
fix the problem even if it was only a 2p fuse that needed changing.
That doesn't make it okay to overcharge.


  #21   Report Post  
Dave Plowman (News)
 
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In article ,
Tony Bryer wrote:
What became of Mullard: they were still making transistors in my
teenage days IIRC?


Think they are the parent company of Philips.

--
*Just give me chocolate and nobody gets hurt

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
  #23   Report Post  
MBQ
 
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"Michael Mcneil" wrote in message news:5aaf2bb94d0b1475e6870d917bd1d949.45219@mygat e.mailgate.org...
"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message


I rememberyears ago me mums valve telly going on teh blink (rental) the
bloke camne witha load of valves, and just replaced em one by one till
the set worked.


The last valve he replaced went in a box marked 'duff'


I asked what he had replaced all teh others for 'its quicker mate, we
just replace em all. Your mum's valves will go into the next set I visit'


Fault finding by a process of elminiation...


What one used to do was replace the ones that remained unlit when
switched on.

Nowadays the array of panels is replaced one by one as they can not be
seen to be disfunctional. I don't know much about the innards of TVs by
the way.


It shows;-) Most will probably have only have one card to replace.

MBQ
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MBQ
 
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Tony Bryer wrote in message ...
What became of Mullard: they were still making transistors in my
teenage days IIRC?


It was sold to Phillips in 1927, who used the name until 1988

MBQ


  #27   Report Post  
Dave Plowman (News)
 
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In article ,
StealthUK wrote:
You're comparing pints of milk at corner shops and telling me not to be
silly? Numerous traders have been prosecuted for overcharging, it's that
simple.


Some years ago there was a late night grocer on the high street (Cullens?)
that charged the most outrageous prices. Don't remember them getting
prosecuted, though.

--
*Money isn't everything, but it sure keeps the kids in touch *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
  #28   Report Post  
raden
 
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In message , Tony Bryer
writes
In article , The Natural
Philosopher wrote:
I rememberyears ago me mums valve telly going on teh blink (rental)
the bloke camne witha load of valves, and just replaced em one by
one till the set worked.


Back in my childhood (early 1960's) now and again all the valves
would be removed from our radio and taken down to the local shop
which had a Mullard valve tester: they'd plug in the valve and a
punched bakelite card which had the settings for the valve in
question. Amazingly Google produced a picture of same:

http://www.thevalvepage.com/testeq/m...test/vtest.htm


Wow, I remember seeing one of those years ago, I don't remember where,
but I saw one.

I presume it doubles up as a one armed bandit, seeing the knob on the
RHS


Usually one was below spec and replaced, but it was probably the
periodic unplugging and plugging that cleaned the contacts that
really helped.

What became of Mullard: they were still making transistors in my
teenage days IIRC?

Now, a set of Mullard transistor data books I can help you with

in which direction they sank without trace, I can't

--
geoff
  #29   Report Post  
raden
 
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In message , Al
writes
What I was told: the fan had gone initially, I was told how much THAT
would be (with a switch), replacing that it half-worked but wouldn't
fire up properly. The PCB had failed (the replacement had a fuse on it
which the original didn't). I was told how much the PCB would be.
Replacing the PCB blew the fuse (twice). He traced in back to the pump
and I was told how much THAT would be.


From which I would deduce (without more info) that the only problem
which you really had was one with the pump


This is true.

Thanks for the input guys. However, I need to be pretty confident of
my position to pursue it further.

It would be helpful if the trading standards website gave the ability
to post a question to them to SEE if there's just cause to take
matters further.

Well, if you do want to take it further, if you still have the parts, I
can test them for you (I would charge, but not silly money, rip off
plumbers really **** me off) ... www.cetltd.com

If they replaced, and charged you for, parts which were not faulty, then
there is a definite case for them to answer

--
geoff
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Coherers
 
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"Tony Bryer" wrote in message
...

Back in my childhood (early 1960's) now and again all the valves
would be removed from our radio and taken down to the local shop
which had a Mullard valve tester: they'd plug in the valve and a
punched bakelite card which had the settings for the valve in
question. Amazingly Google produced a picture of same:

http://www.thevalvepage.com/testeq/m...test/vtest.htm


This uk.d-i-yer actually has one of them in the attic. They often come up
for sale on eBay if you get overtaken by nostalgia !

P.s. The cards are actually paxolin rather than bakelite. Now not a lot of
people know that.... :-)




  #31   Report Post  
bob
 
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"Al" wrote in message roups.com...

I compared the online price with the manufacturers price and, where
possible, the B&Q price. The average overall price for the four parts
was UKP240 plus VAT. I was charged UKP657 plus VAT. Note that the
labour charge was costed separately.



Lucky you!!
I have just been charged £1,600 for 3 hours work.
Who by?
my Accountant
at least a plumber does do some work for his money....
Bob
  #32   Report Post  
Dave Plowman (News)
 
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In article ,
Coherers wrote:
This uk.d-i-yer actually has one of them in the attic. They often come up
for sale on eBay if you get overtaken by nostalgia !


And plenty of cash...

P.s. The cards are actually paxolin rather than bakelite. Now not a lot
of people know that.... :-)


Yup - bakelite of that thickness would be too brittle.

With older AVOs, you had to dial in all the settings by hand. You got your
money's worth when having a valve tested then.

--
*Happiness is seeing your mother-in-law on a milk carton

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
  #33   Report Post  
Bob Eager
 
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On Fri, 3 Dec 2004 11:45:08 UTC, Tony Bryer
wrote:

Back in my childhood (early 1960's) now and again all the valves
would be removed from our radio and taken down to the local shop
which had a Mullard valve tester: they'd plug in the valve and a
punched bakelite card which had the settings for the valve in
question. Amazingly Google produced a picture of same:

http://www.thevalvepage.com/testeq/m...test/vtest.htm


Oh yes. Used one of those a lot.

I had a Saturday/holiday job with a firm called "Technical Trading";
they used to advertise of page 3 of Practical Wireless, I think. Columns
and columns of valve numbers. They used to buy in secondhand valves. My
job (and others too, including part time workers, usually housewives)
was to test these. We have four or five of the Mullard testers. Those
that passed were put in one bin, those that failed in another. The
failures were given an attempt at resurrection by putting them in some
kind of RF coil that reignited the getter, hopefully restoring a
reasonable vacuum. Successful retests went in the 'good' bin.

Then we'd clean them, print the company name on them, and sell them
cheap.

--
Bob Eager
begin a new life...dump Windows!
  #34   Report Post  
Derek *
 
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On Fri, 03 Dec 2004 11:45:08 GMT, Tony Bryer
wrote:


What became of Mullard: they were still making transistors in my
teenage days IIRC?


If you plug the terms "peter duck" "hobby farm" into google groups you
will retreive an article by Peter Duck which outlines the machinations
in the early '60s which set the seal on the then future of our
semicinductor industry.

Check out the whole thread.

DG
  #35   Report Post  
Dave Plowman (News)
 
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In article ,
Derek * wrote:
What became of Mullard: they were still making transistors in my
teenage days IIRC?


If you plug the terms "peter duck" "hobby farm" into google groups you
will retreive an article by Peter Duck which outlines the machinations
in the early '60s which set the seal on the then future of our
semicinductor industry.


Did Mullard actually manufacture here? I know STC had a valve factory near
Torbay - a pal's sister worked for them. And got a cash award for a
production improvement on Nixies.

Strange how you remember some things but not the day of the week...

--
*Out of my mind. Back in five minutes.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.


  #37   Report Post  
Al
 
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RichardS wrote:-

However, I'd also be talking to either CAB or Trading Standards,
to see whether there is precedent and something that can be
done about it.


Contacting Trading Standards is something I will certainly be doing as
a matter of course. I gather that in my area they are piloting a
preferred supplier database, whereby idiots like me :-) can contact
them to guarantee the honesty and non-cowboyness of any services I use.


AIUI to avoid any restraint of trade issues, all companies are
allowed onto this database at their request until such time as they
warrant removal from it. An excellent idea IMHO.

A reasonable mark-up for immediate availability of parts can be
expected, but this markup (what, must be 170%??) would be
difficult to justify, especially when there are many heating
engineers who carry considerable stock of spares without
anything like this markup.


All figures before VAT, =A3659 instead of =A3240, I'll let you do the
maths, but it's well over 170%.

  #38   Report Post  
Al
 
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StealthUK wrote:-

You must have really had a dodgy boiler - the fan, the fan switch,

the
pcb and the pump all went faulty at the same time? And the pump was
causing the fuse to blow? Did you have a qualified engineer come

round
or one of the Chuckle Brothers? Hmmm. Buy a lottery ticket this
Saturday, you never know.


As I explained earlier in the thread, I was given to understand that
the old style PCB (since ugraded by Glowworm) had no fuse, therefore
the pump blew the PCB and the fan. The replacement PCB will cause only
the fuse to blow. Plausible, but as I do not have the old parts I
cannot prove this. I make no excuses for my idiocy, but that does not
give anyone the right the take advantage of that idiocy without being
on the receving end of as much trouble as I can cause them.

Make sure you complain about the parts that needed replacing as well

-
sounds like a total scam. Also check that the parts were actually
replaced and not just cleaned up. Lastly, find out the engineer's

name
and see if he is Corgi registered.


The parts WERE replaced, I watched him do it, and the advert in Yellow
Pages uses a valid CORGI registration number.

  #39   Report Post  
Al
 
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StealthUK wrote:-

You must have really had a dodgy boiler - the fan, the fan switch,

the
pcb and the pump all went faulty at the same time? And the pump was
causing the fuse to blow? Did you have a qualified engineer come

round
or one of the Chuckle Brothers? Hmmm. Buy a lottery ticket this
Saturday, you never know.


As I explained earlier in the thread, I was given to understand that
the old style PCB (since ugraded by Glowworm) had no fuse, therefore
the pump blew the PCB and the fan. The replacement PCB will cause only
the fuse to blow. Plausible, but as I do not have the old parts I
cannot prove this. I make no excuses for my idiocy, but that does not
give anyone the right the take advantage of that idiocy without being
on the receving end of as much trouble as I can cause them.

Make sure you complain about the parts that needed replacing as well

-
sounds like a total scam. Also check that the parts were actually
replaced and not just cleaned up. Lastly, find out the engineer's

name
and see if he is Corgi registered.


The parts WERE replaced, I watched him do it, and the advert in Yellow
Pages uses a valid CORGI registration number.

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StealthUK
 
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Al wrote:


As I explained earlier in the thread, I was given to understand that
the old style PCB (since ugraded by Glowworm) had no fuse, therefore
the pump blew the PCB and the fan. The replacement PCB will cause

only
the fuse to blow. Plausible, but as I do not have the old parts I
cannot prove this. I make no excuses for my idiocy, but that does not
give anyone the right the take advantage of that idiocy without being
on the receving end of as much trouble as I can cause them.


It's not about idiocy. These guys work on the common decency of others.
They act like your 'mate' and as if they're trying to help you out. You
in return don't want to offend them by questioning them too much.


The parts WERE replaced, I watched him do it, and the advert in

Yellow
Pages uses a valid CORGI registration number.


Well the number may check out but that doesn't mean the guy who
actually turned up was Corgi registered. But unless you got a mugshot
it will be hard to prove anything. :-)

If you get nowhere through the normal channels there are always other
ways! Good Luck :-)

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