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  #1   Report Post  
Uno Hoo!
 
Posts: n/a
Default DIY electrical work after 1st January 2005

I'm fed up to the back teeth with the misleading information being given out
by the media about the new 'safety law' which comes into being after 1st
January next year.
As an example, the BBC 'Good Homes' magazine states: "If you're thinking of
tackling the electrics in your home DIY style, think again - from 1st
January 2005 it will be illegal. The National Council for Electrical
Installation Contracting (NICEIC) has passed a new safety law that renders
all electrical work done by yourself, or an unregistered electrician,
illegal."

Similarly it has just been announced on Classic FM news that DIY electrical
work will be illegal after 1st January. This is complete and utter
cobblers. The new law specifically exempts 'minor' electrical work such as
adding extra power points and/or lighting points - and on the whole this is
the sort of work that DIY electricians undertake. Only major work such as
adding complete new circuits and work undertaken in bathrooms and kitchens
comes within the new laws. Even the work that *is* covered by the new
regulations is not prohibited to DIY'ers - anyone wishing to carry out such
work has to notify the authorities and have the work inspected. Hardly
*illegal* ??

Why can the media never get anything right?

Kev




  #2   Report Post  
Peter Crosland
 
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The National Council for Electrical
Installation Contracting (NICEIC) has passed a new safety law that renders
all electrical work done by yourself, or an unregistered electrician,
illegal."


And since when was Parliament replaced by the NICEIC?


  #3   Report Post  
:::Jerry::::
 
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"Uno Hoo!" wrote in message
...
snip rant..

Why can the media never get anything right?


Because it's been a long time since most of the media retained an expert in
most subject I suspect, the average 'hack' could be writing copy on dog crap
one day and cookery the next....


  #4   Report Post  
Andy Hall
 
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On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 15:40:11 -0000, "Peter Crosland"
wrote:

The National Council for Electrical
Installation Contracting (NICEIC) has passed a new safety law that renders
all electrical work done by yourself, or an unregistered electrician,
illegal."


And since when was Parliament replaced by the NICEIC?


Oh, didn't you know? ;-)



--

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl
  #5   Report Post  
Mike
 
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Default

This is in reply to message of Sat, 27 Nov 2004 15:44:57 -0000,
":::Jerry::::" which said:


"Uno Hoo!" wrote in message
...
snip rant..

Why can the media never get anything right?


Because it's been a long time since most of the media retained an expert in
most subject I suspect, the average 'hack' could be writing copy on dog crap
one day and cookery the next....


Or - "why spoil a good story with the truth".


  #6   Report Post  
:::Jerry::::
 
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Default


"Mike" wrote in message
news
This is in reply to message of Sat, 27 Nov 2004 15:44:57 -0000,
":::Jerry::::" which said:


"Uno Hoo!" wrote in message
...
snip rant..

Why can the media never get anything right?


Because it's been a long time since most of the media retained an expert

in
most subject I suspect, the average 'hack' could be writing copy on dog

crap
one day and cookery the next....


Or - "why spoil a good story with the truth".


Trouble is, these (part time subject) hacks spoil a good story even when the
truth makes it a good story...


  #7   Report Post  
Lurch
 
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Default

On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 15:40:11 -0000, "Peter Crosland"
strung together this:

And since when was Parliament replaced by the NICEIC?

Shortly after the Mafia and Gestapo clubbed together and bought the
NICEIC.
--

SJW
A.C.S. Ltd
Please reply to group or use 'usenet' in email subject
  #8   Report Post  
Lurch
 
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Default

On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 15:23:16 -0000, "Uno Hoo!"
strung together this:

Why can the media never get anything right?

Yet if I went to a customers property and said "you can't do that,
it's illegal. I'll have to charge you for doing that" I'd end up on
electricians from hell or somesuch ****e.
It's the little people that are getting trampled on again.
--

SJW
A.C.S. Ltd
Please reply to group or use 'usenet' in email subject
  #9   Report Post  
Andrew Mawson
 
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Default


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 15:40:11 -0000, "Peter Crosland"
wrote:

The National Council for Electrical
Installation Contracting (NICEIC) has passed a new safety law that

renders
all electrical work done by yourself, or an unregistered electrician,
illegal."


And since when was Parliament replaced by the NICEIC?


Oh, didn't you know? ;-)


Might be a big improvement !!!!!!

AWEM


  #10   Report Post  
Ed Sirett
 
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Default

On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 16:31:23 +0000, :::Jerry:::: wrote:


"Mike" wrote in message
news
This is in reply to message of Sat, 27 Nov 2004 15:44:57 -0000,
":::Jerry::::" which said:


"Uno Hoo!" wrote in message
...
snip rant..

Why can the media never get anything right?


Because it's been a long time since most of the media retained an expert

in
most subject I suspect, the average 'hack' could be writing copy on dog

crap
one day and cookery the next....


Or - "why spoil a good story with the truth".


Trouble is, these (part time subject) hacks spoi1l a good story even when the
truth makes it a good story...


Well this morning there was a _mostly_ balanced item on this subject on
the Today program on R4.

It did cover the subject accurately except for mentioning several times
that the regulations were designed to 'save lives' from dodgy wiring.
As if people are dropping like flies from fixed wiring faults.

It left as an open question weather the BCOs would be able to meet the
demand for inspections. It also mentioned the (nigh on certain IMHO) fact
that diy electricals will go underground.
It failed to mention that professional competant electrical work will very
likely also do so.

Even if you agree with the idea that electrical work should be regulated
the _timing_ of this introduction is arguably in error.

1) All the technical trades are currently subject to severe labour shortages.
2) The regulatory organizations have no incentive to expand.
3) The is a massive culture of diy elecrical work.

The introduction needed to be preceeded by a period where people have a
chance to get the exam passes and join ECA/NICEIC volutarily. Making it
known where and how to become qualified. Rather than leave it to peopl who
are already very busy to find out for themselves.

The changes needed to be after a period of recuitment for the BC Office to
get the inspectors they need. After January the LAs will need to recruit
inspectors form amonst whom? qualified electricians! This will only make
the labour shortages even worse!

Finally they needed to introduce this in the middle of a slump in
building work not a boom.

I have it on good authority that a law which is not enforceable is not a
law.

--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html




  #11   Report Post  
James
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Ed Sirett" wrote in message
news
On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 16:31:23 +0000, :::Jerry:::: wrote:

Well this morning there was a _mostly_ balanced item on this subject on
the Today program on R4.

It did cover the subject accurately except for mentioning several times
that the regulations were designed to 'save lives' from dodgy wiring.
As if people are dropping like flies from fixed wiring faults.


The Government are now giving publicity to Part P - unlike the way it was
kept relatively quiet from the "person in the street" during the
consulatation process! Would it have gone ahead had it received publicity
then?

James



---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.802 / Virus Database: 545 - Release Date: 26/11/2004


  #12   Report Post  
Peter Crosland
 
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Might be a big improvement !!!!!!

ROTFLOL! I certainly don't think it could be worse.


  #13   Report Post  
Pete C
 
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Default

On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 15:23:16 -0000, "Uno Hoo!"
wrote:

I'm fed up to the back teeth with the misleading information being given out
by the media about the new 'safety law' which comes into being after 1st
January next year.
As an example, the BBC 'Good Homes' magazine states: "If you're thinking of
tackling the electrics in your home DIY style, think again - from 1st
January 2005 it will be illegal. The National Council for Electrical
Installation Contracting (NICEIC) has passed a new safety law that renders
all electrical work done by yourself, or an unregistered electrician,
illegal."

Similarly it has just been announced on Classic FM news that DIY electrical
work will be illegal after 1st January. This is complete and utter
cobblers. The new law specifically exempts 'minor' electrical work such as
adding extra power points and/or lighting points - and on the whole this is
the sort of work that DIY electricians undertake. Only major work such as
adding complete new circuits and work undertaken in bathrooms and kitchens
comes within the new laws. Even the work that *is* covered by the new
regulations is not prohibited to DIY'ers - anyone wishing to carry out such
work has to notify the authorities and have the work inspected. Hardly
*illegal* ??


Hi,

What happens if you don't have a 'competent person' to do the
necessary work, or don't have it inspected? Can you expect 'a knock on
the door in the night'...?

cheers,
Pete.
  #14   Report Post  
:::Jerry::::
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Pete C" wrote in message
...
snip

What happens if you don't have a 'competent person' to do the
necessary work, or don't have it inspected? Can you expect 'a knock on
the door in the night'...?


With buyers packs and pre sale surveying etc. that is around or planned, I
*suspect* you won't be able to sell the property.
--
From address changed due to the
individual.net FAQ / AUP changing.


  #15   Report Post  
Andy Hall
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 20:10:51 +0000, Pete C
wrote:

On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 15:23:16 -0000, "Uno Hoo!"
wrote:

I'm fed up to the back teeth with the misleading information being given out
by the media about the new 'safety law' which comes into being after 1st
January next year.
As an example, the BBC 'Good Homes' magazine states: "If you're thinking of
tackling the electrics in your home DIY style, think again - from 1st
January 2005 it will be illegal. The National Council for Electrical
Installation Contracting (NICEIC) has passed a new safety law that renders
all electrical work done by yourself, or an unregistered electrician,
illegal."

Similarly it has just been announced on Classic FM news that DIY electrical
work will be illegal after 1st January. This is complete and utter
cobblers. The new law specifically exempts 'minor' electrical work such as
adding extra power points and/or lighting points - and on the whole this is
the sort of work that DIY electricians undertake. Only major work such as
adding complete new circuits and work undertaken in bathrooms and kitchens
comes within the new laws. Even the work that *is* covered by the new
regulations is not prohibited to DIY'ers - anyone wishing to carry out such
work has to notify the authorities and have the work inspected. Hardly
*illegal* ??


Hi,

What happens if you don't have a 'competent person' to do the
necessary work, or don't have it inspected? Can you expect 'a knock on
the door in the night'...?

cheers,
Pete.


Oh, definitely.

BCOs have been issued with heavy leather uniforms and detector vans.
:-)

The reality is that nothing will happen unless/until:

- Somebody informs building control. However, wiring is a lot less
conspicuous than an extension.

- Some building work involving building control is started and they
notice. Unlikely.

- Something bad happens like a fire.

- You want to sell the house. The buyer's solicitor will ask for
certificates or ask if any wiring without inspection has been done.
Presumably you would answer truthfully. A survey with electrical
inspection would be done and corrections made if required, then a
certificate issued.





--

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl


  #16   Report Post  
Dave Baker
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Subject: DIY electrical work after 1st January 2005
From: Andy Hall am
Date: 27/11/04 20:35 GMT Standard Time
Message-id:

On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 20:10:51 +0000, Pete C
wrote:

On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 15:23:16 -0000, "Uno Hoo!"
wrote:

I'm fed up to the back teeth with the misleading information being given

out
by the media about the new 'safety law' which comes into being after 1st
January next year.
As an example, the BBC 'Good Homes' magazine states: "If you're thinking of


tackling the electrics in your home DIY style, think again - from 1st
January 2005 it will be illegal. The National Council for Electrical
Installation Contracting (NICEIC) has passed a new safety law that renders
all electrical work done by yourself, or an unregistered electrician,
illegal."

Similarly it has just been announced on Classic FM news that DIY electrical


work will be illegal after 1st January. This is complete and utter
cobblers. The new law specifically exempts 'minor' electrical work such as
adding extra power points and/or lighting points - and on the whole this is


the sort of work that DIY electricians undertake. Only major work such as
adding complete new circuits and work undertaken in bathrooms and kitchens
comes within the new laws. Even the work that *is* covered by the new
regulations is not prohibited to DIY'ers - anyone wishing to carry out such


work has to notify the authorities and have the work inspected. Hardly
*illegal* ??


Hi,

What happens if you don't have a 'competent person' to do the
necessary work, or don't have it inspected? Can you expect 'a knock on
the door in the night'...?

cheers,
Pete.


Oh, definitely.

BCOs have been issued with heavy leather uniforms and detector vans.
:-)

The reality is that nothing will happen unless/until:

- Somebody informs building control. However, wiring is a lot less
conspicuous than an extension.

- Some building work involving building control is started and they
notice. Unlikely.

- Something bad happens like a fire.

- You want to sell the house. The buyer's solicitor will ask for
certificates or ask if any wiring without inspection has been done.
Presumably you would answer truthfully. A survey with electrical
inspection would be done and corrections made if required, then a
certificate issued.


So you just say that any wiring changes were made before 1.1.2005 or by the
previous owner or by a competent electrician whose details you seem to have
lost while you were packing the house contents and no one will be any the
wiser. Other than people who go out of their way to inform the local council
they are about to make wiring changes I see no way of this legislation being
enforceable. I'm certainly not going to pay it a moment's notice.


--
Dave Baker - Puma Race Engines (
www.pumaracing.co.uk)
  #17   Report Post  
Mike
 
Posts: n/a
Default


":::Jerry::::" wrote in message
...

"Pete C" wrote in message
...
snip

What happens if you don't have a 'competent person' to do the
necessary work, or don't have it inspected? Can you expect 'a knock on
the door in the night'...?


With buyers packs and pre sale surveying etc. that is around or planned, I
*suspect* you won't be able to sell the property.



Didn't the House of Lords win the argument on this one and scrap/delay it ?


  #18   Report Post  
Alan Vann
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Uno Hoo! wrote:
Why can the media never get anything right?


Like the Daily Express which told us this week that "DIY electrical work
will invalidate your home insurance policy" and that the wiring colours are
changing to Blue for neutral and Black for live!!!!!


  #19   Report Post  
RichardS
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"Uno Hoo!" wrote in message
...
I'm fed up to the back teeth with the misleading information being given

out
by the media about the new 'safety law' which comes into being after 1st
January next year.
As an example, the BBC 'Good Homes' magazine states: "If you're thinking

of
tackling the electrics in your home DIY style, think again - from 1st
January 2005 it will be illegal. The National Council for Electrical
Installation Contracting (NICEIC) has passed a new safety law that renders
all electrical work done by yourself, or an unregistered electrician,
illegal."

Similarly it has just been announced on Classic FM news that DIY

electrical
work will be illegal after 1st January. This is complete and utter
cobblers. The new law specifically exempts 'minor' electrical work such as
adding extra power points and/or lighting points - and on the whole this

is
the sort of work that DIY electricians undertake. Only major work such as
adding complete new circuits and work undertaken in bathrooms and kitchens
comes within the new laws. Even the work that *is* covered by the new
regulations is not prohibited to DIY'ers - anyone wishing to carry out

such
work has to notify the authorities and have the work inspected. Hardly
*illegal* ??

Why can the media never get anything right?

Kev


Whilst I'm generally with you on the irritation of press inaccuracies (and
the Beeb is just as bad as the rest), this might actually work against the
government in this case. The downside is that they will probably choose to
ignore the heart of the argument, and talk about press inaccuracies instead.

The thing that really ****es me off is that this should have come out 6
months ago, when there might have been a chance to do somethign about it.


--
Richard Sampson

mail me at
richard at olifant d-ot co do-t uk


  #20   Report Post  
Al Reynolds
 
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Default


":::Jerry::::" wrote:

"Pete C" wrote in message
...
snip

What happens if you don't have a 'competent person' to do the
necessary work, or don't have it inspected? Can you expect 'a knock on
the door in the night'...?


With buyers packs and pre sale surveying etc. that is around or planned, I
*suspect* you won't be able to sell the property.


You'll just answer the question in the sellers pack about certification
for electrical work with "no certificates are available" and the buyer
can then get their own inspection. Or you pay for an inspection before
you get the sellers pack and include that. Either way as long as you've
done the work to current regs then nothing to worry about. An
electrical inspection fee is small change in the context of the ~£10k it
costs to move house these days.

As always, if the buyer wants the house, they'll buy the house. There
is no law stopping a house being sold if it doesn't have the relevant
certificates for work done on it.

Al




  #21   Report Post  
Dave Stanton
 
Posts: n/a
Default


spend ££££££ on some registration scheme. Maybe I'll just sign on
as unemployed instead :-)


If you do that, then the gov will pay you to be retrained, prob solved g.

Dave

--

Some people use windows, others have a life.

  #22   Report Post  
JM
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Uno Hoo! wrote:

Why can the media never get anything right?


BBC News seem to have done a better job:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4048371.stm

John.


  #23   Report Post  
Tim S
 
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On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 20:10:51 +0000, Pete C wrote:

Hi,

What happens if you don't have a 'competent person' to do the necessary
work, or don't have it inspected? Can you expect 'a knock on the door in
the night'...?

cheers,
Pete.


Doubt it... I certainly do not plan to pay for certification everytime I
do something, which is likley to be lots of small jobs over the course of
time.

I can't afford to pay a sparky for something I am well competant to do
(unlike say, plastering, which I'm crap at, or plumbing if it means taking
the entire CH to bits as opposed to running a couple of pipes).

So, if I see something that looks iffy, do I a) leave it as I can't afford
a sparky or b) fix it??? Guess.

Someone earlier this year suggested a real beauty to tell the buyers
solicitor in the event of enquiries to relevant certification. It went
roughly thus:

"I know of no material deviations from the IEE Wiring Regulations. However
if the buyer wishes to see certification or otherwise assure themselves,
they are most welcome to arrange an inspection of their choice for which
they will pay."

In other words, business as usual.

I expect Councils are too busy to randomly start poking around with this
sort of thing. So they only other times it will come up AFAICS will be:

a) BCO down due to other works. He's unlikely to inspect beyond the job in
hand. And with the cock up in colour changes, nothing is going to be
obvious anyway.

b) Fire or electrocution and it's found out that you made a pigs ear of
electrical work. But that's always been the case... I think if the police
are about to bust you for making an installation dangerous and killing
someone, after the amount of grief you'll be getting, Part P evasion will
be the least of your worries. And if you're that useless with electrical
work, you shouldn't be doing it at all.

Not a legal opinion, just mine.

Or go on a certification course and hire the equipment and do it yourself.
Are there any C&G courses for this?

Timbo

  #24   Report Post  
Uno Hoo!
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Al Reynolds" wrote in message
...

":::Jerry::::" wrote:

"Pete C" wrote in message
...
snip

What happens if you don't have a 'competent person' to do the
necessary work, or don't have it inspected? Can you expect 'a knock on
the door in the night'...?


With buyers packs and pre sale surveying etc. that is around or planned,
I
*suspect* you won't be able to sell the property.


You'll just answer the question in the sellers pack about certification
for electrical work with "no certificates are available" and the buyer
can then get their own inspection. Or you pay for an inspection before
you get the sellers pack and include that. Either way as long as you've
done the work to current regs then nothing to worry about. An
electrical inspection fee is small change in the context of the ~£10k it
costs to move house these days.

As always, if the buyer wants the house, they'll buy the house. There
is no law stopping a house being sold if it doesn't have the relevant
certificates for work done on it.


In any case - how can anyone prove just 'when' the work was carried out?

Kev


  #25   Report Post  
Owain
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"Tim S" wrote
| Or go on a certification course and hire the equipment and do it
| yourself.

The point about this regulation is that you *cannot* do this.

| Are there any C&G courses for this?

(Yes, but) Irrelevant. You do not have to be qualified. You just have to be
a member of NICEIC or similar scheme.

Owain






  #26   Report Post  
fred
 
Posts: n/a
Default


Purely out of interest, can someone with reasonable elec. quals and
experience
now not do domestic wiring beyond what has just been described by the
other
posters here?


I am a qualified practising Electrician with qualifications in the Wiring
Regulations and Inspection and Testing of Electrical Installations. On 1st
January I will need to get a building inspector to check that I have
replaced a Socket Outlet in my kitchen correctly. The building inspector
will probably be less qualified and experienced than myself. But its ok for
me to replace someone else's Socket Outlet in their kitchen as long as I am
working for a registered Electrician.

I cant go self employed because you have to be in business 6 months before
been able to register with one of the schemes.

By "someone/reasonable", I mean me with...
Electrical apprenticeship (industrial) in the 70's (5 years + day release
CGLI
full tech cert (probably considered worthless today). Mainly 3ph. high
current
motor controllers, & industrial plant etc to elec. instrumentation and
domestic
wiring in the companies own housing. I'm still reasonably utd on the
theory but
way ood on the regulations. I also have a degree in elec. eng. (B.Sc) -
but for
most of the interviening years I've been involved in computer sodware (no
typo).

Heading for retirement I did think of maybe returning to my short circuits
days
(part time) - but looks like the government has pressed the big RED
button. Are
there any exemptions possible? I don't really want to have to spend ££££££
on
some registration scheme. Maybe I'll just sign on as unemployed instead
:-)



  #27   Report Post  
fred
 
Posts: n/a
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One point not often made is that you do not need to be a qualified
Electrician to register with one of the part p schemes. Kitchen fitters
plumbers etc will be allowed into the fold as long as they hand over the wad
of cash and go on one of the courses.


  #28   Report Post  
Tim S
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Sun, 28 Nov 2004 13:34:58 +0000, Owain wrote:

"Tim S" wrote
| Or go on a certification course and hire the equipment and do it
| yourself.

The point about this regulation is that you *cannot* do this.

| Are there any C&G courses for this?

(Yes, but) Irrelevant. You do not have to be qualified. You just have to
be a member of NICEIC or similar scheme.

Owain


This came up before in a thread some weeks ago. I remember the consensus
was that what you say is certainly true in the case of work done for
reward.

That is, Pro's can only self certify by being NECEIC members.

The conclusion on doing DIY work was inconclusive, though a strong
argument was made that anyone could certify their own work (for DIY) as
long as they "were competant" to quote the IEE regs.

I'm the sort of bloke who if I were going to do this, might be interested
in doing a specific course (assuming it's one of those 2-3 day things),
then at least I can do it right.

I have no moral objection to installation testing per se, just in it being
suggested that I have to pay someone else to do it every 6 months when I
touch something.

I beg to differ, but I think the case of who can certify what for DIY work
is still as clear as mud AFAICS.

All that's sparked this discussion off are a few media reports of varying
quality. I think it's important to note that no new information of
consequence is available.

I've seen nothing substantial enough, recently, to change my opinion.

Timbo
  #29   Report Post  
Lurch
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Sun, 28 Nov 2004 16:02:00 -0000, "fred"
strung together this:

I am a qualified practising Electrician with qualifications in the Wiring
Regulations and Inspection and Testing of Electrical Installations. On 1st
January I will need to get a building inspector to check that I have
replaced a Socket Outlet in my kitchen correctly. The building inspector
will probably be less qualified and experienced than myself. But its ok for
me to replace someone else's Socket Outlet in their kitchen as long as I am
working for a registered Electrician.

I cant go self employed because you have to be in business 6 months before
been able to register with one of the schemes.

I've just decided not to bother, I can't work out what's meant to be
happening, but whatever it is it'll cost me money so **** it, I'll
just stop doing electrical work. I'd much rather devote my time to the
data\telecoms\security side of my business anyway.
I'll still be doing my own work in my own house though, once part p is
deemed to be a total mess of confusion and extortion it'll be
scrapped. (Actually it won't will it, it'll be ammended so that it
costs more to be involved in it but makes no difference to safety).
--

SJW
A.C.S. Ltd
Please reply to group or use 'usenet' in email subject
  #30   Report Post  
Owain
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"Tim S" wrote
| The conclusion on doing DIY work was inconclusive, though a strong
| argument was made that anyone could certify their own work (for DIY)
| as long as they "were competant" to quote the IEE regs.

That is for GAS. (Not the IEE regs bit, but the "competent" criterion.)
There is NO requirement for competence under Part P. After all, they're
allowing NIC-only-one-person-in-a-firm-needs-a-qualification-EIC to
self-certify.

(The main reason for a CORGI to sign off DIY gas heating installation is not
the Gas Safety Regulations but Part L requiring somebody to sign that you've
put thermostatic radiator valves in, and to qualify for some manufacturer's
warranties on the boiler.)

| I'm the sort of bloke who if I were going to do this, might be interested
| in doing a specific course (assuming it's one of those 2-3 day things),
| then at least I can do it right.

The IEE do 2-3 day courses. However, you would also need the apppropriate
test equipment which must be calibrated periodically.

| I beg to differ, but I think the case of who can certify what for DIY work
| is still as clear as mud AFAICS.

It's quite clear(ish). One of the following applies:

- the work is within the definition of permitted work[1], not in a kitchen
or bathroom or other specified location - DIY permitted, providing work
complies with the Readers Digest Picture Book of Sockets and Switches.
- the work is carried out by a person [whose employer is] registered with a
certification body eg NICEIC - operative self-certifies
- anything else, a building regulations application to the council is
required

Much like windows with FENSA, etc.

Owain

[1] This is not necessarily the same as that covered by the IEE's "minor
works" form of certificate



  #31   Report Post  
Andrew Gabriel
 
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Default

In article ,
Lurch writes:
On Sun, 28 Nov 2004 16:02:00 -0000, "fred"
strung together this:

I am a qualified practising Electrician with qualifications in the Wiring
Regulations and Inspection and Testing of Electrical Installations. On 1st
January I will need to get a building inspector to check that I have
replaced a Socket Outlet in my kitchen correctly. The building inspector
will probably be less qualified and experienced than myself. But its ok for
me to replace someone else's Socket Outlet in their kitchen as long as I am
working for a registered Electrician.

I cant go self employed because you have to be in business 6 months before
been able to register with one of the schemes.

I've just decided not to bother, I can't work out what's meant to be
happening, but whatever it is it'll cost me money so **** it, I'll
just stop doing electrical work. I'd much rather devote my time to the
data\telecoms\security side of my business anyway.


That's all covered by Part P in the home and it doesn't come
under the list of exemptions in Table 1. I did mention in my
original response during the consultation period that Part P
should only cover Low Voltage (which is standard mains voltage),
but my comments were ignored and it also encompasses all Extra
Low Voltage, i.e. data/telecoms/security/aerials/etc. and none
of these are listed in the exclusions from needing an accredited
installer or a building notice. So you might want to make sure
you get your structured Cat5 and phone extentions installed
before year end ;-)

--
Andrew Gabriel
  #32   Report Post  
James
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Andrew Gabriel" wrote in message
...

That's all covered by Part P in the home and it doesn't come
under the list of exemptions in Table 1. I did mention in my
original response during the consultation period that Part P
should only cover Low Voltage (which is standard mains voltage),
but my comments were ignored and it also encompasses all Extra
Low Voltage, i.e. data/telecoms/security/aerials/etc. and none
of these are listed in the exclusions from needing an accredited
installer or a building notice. So you might want to make sure
you get your structured Cat5 and phone extentions installed
before year end ;-)



Do the traditional operators - such as BT - have membership of an
appropriate approved body? On second thoughts this is a silly question - to
meet the requirements only one of their thousands of employees needs to be a
member for the organisation as a whole to qualify.

James


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.802 / Virus Database: 545 - Release Date: 27/11/2004


  #35   Report Post  
Lurch
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Sun, 28 Nov 2004 23:22:27 +0000, Andy Hall
strung together this:

Why don't you contact them and ask them to take up your cause.
Chances are, theyu haven't even thought about it.

Yes, I'll look into a bit more tomorrow.

When you're wiring an alarm panel, do you normally power it from a
spur? If so, you can still do that, since it's exempted, but
presumably not if a new circuit were needed...


I already got that one figured, which is a PITA as I prefer to run the
alarm panel on a dedicated non RCD'd radial rather than off of a RCD'd
ring. Oh well, the pro's get shafted again while the cowboys go on as
normal not giving a feck.
--

SJW
A.C.S. Ltd
Please reply to group or use 'usenet' in email subject


  #36   Report Post  
Tim S
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Sun, 28 Nov 2004 20:44:34 +0000, Owain wrote:

"Tim S" wrote
| The conclusion on doing DIY work was inconclusive, though a strong
| argument was made that anyone could certify their own work (for DIY) as
| long as they "were competant" to quote the IEE regs.

That is for GAS. (Not the IEE regs bit, but the "competent" criterion.)
There is NO requirement for competence under Part P. After all, they're
allowing NIC-only-one-person-in-a-firm-needs-a-qualification-EIC to
self-certify.


?

Must be talking at cross purposes. Could be me, in which case I apologise.


(The main reason for a CORGI to sign off DIY gas heating installation is
not the Gas Safety Regulations but Part L requiring somebody to sign that
you've put thermostatic radiator valves in, and to qualify for some
manufacturer's warranties on the boiler.)

| I'm the sort of bloke who if I were going to do this, might be
| interested in doing a specific course (assuming it's one of those 2-3
| day things), then at least I can do it right.

The IEE do 2-3 day courses. However, you would also need the apppropriate
test equipment which must be calibrated periodically.


Hireable I'm sure. For a fee. Which even for this should be less than a
NECEIC bod doing it (£150 +/-50??)

| I beg to differ, but I think the case of who can certify what for DIY
| work is still as clear as mud AFAICS.

It's quite clear(ish). One of the following applies:

- the work is within the definition of permitted work[1], not in a kitchen
or bathroom or other specified location - DIY permitted, providing work
complies with the Readers Digest Picture Book of Sockets and Switches. -
the work is carried out by a person [whose employer is] registered with a
certification body eg NICEIC - operative self-certifies - anything else, a
building regulations application to the council is required


I'm clear on this bit - "what type of work needs certifying".

I'm not at all clear on who can certify at the end of works for which a BR
application was made.

a) Hire-for-reward professional sparky - must be NECEIC member in the
firm, I think. Reasonably clear.

b) DIYer - not at all clear to me after following this discussion for
months.

I've seen opinions varying from "get a bloke who could do a) to certify
your work" to "anyone can write out an IEE test cert if they are competant
and have correct calibrated test gear" to "random CEng/MIEE with test gear".

The last option was indicated verbally to me be be acceptable by one
senior BCO. I hadn't asked about "certificate written out by anyone
competant".

Assuming that for DIY, one does do a BR notification where required, what
seems highly unclear is who is allowed to certify your work (you/a random
engineer/paid-NECEIC-sparky). I suspect that will be subject to much
variation depending on council.


Much like windows with FENSA, etc.


I'd hate to get into that(!)

Timbo

--
Tim Southerwood
Website: http://www.dionic.net/

  #37   Report Post  
Christian McArdle
 
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Default

I cant go self employed because you have to be in business 6 months before
been able to register with one of the schemes.


Yes. You must have been a member for 6 months before you are allowed to
join. Medieval guild pure and simple.

Christian.


  #38   Report Post  
Andy Hall
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Mon, 29 Nov 2004 10:29:10 -0000, "Christian McArdle"
wrote:

I cant go self employed because you have to be in business 6 months before
been able to register with one of the schemes.


Yes. You must have been a member for 6 months before you are allowed to
join. Medieval guild pure and simple.

Christian.

I wonder if they have initiation ceremonies.
Rolling up of trouser legs, that type of thing......



--

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl
  #39   Report Post  
Lurch
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Mon, 29 Nov 2004 10:29:10 -0000, "Christian McArdle"
strung together this:

I cant go self employed because you have to be in business 6 months before
been able to register with one of the schemes.


Yes. You must have been a member for 6 months before you are allowed to
join. Medieval guild pure and simple.

Arse about face, as usual. At some point in the future, if you set up
a business you will have a 6 month minimum period in which you are
technically incompetent in the eyes of some **** in a suit who doesn't
know his arse from his elbow which means that you can't do any work
and you can't leave the house as the insurance poklicy you took out
will be invalid. When you apply for membership you will then be
assessed on the previous work that you have done, i.e. making some
toast.
--

SJW
A.C.S. Ltd
Please reply to group or use 'usenet' in email subject
  #40   Report Post  
Ed Sirett
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 20:31:52 +0000, :::Jerry:::: wrote:





With buyers packs and pre sale surveying etc. that is around or planned, I
*suspect* you won't be able to sell the property.
--


What I think will happen is that two housing markets will develop - a
fully certified & in A1 condition. Which the younger, better and well
refurbished houses will tend to belong to. The less informed, the
wealthier and the less adventurous (in any combination) will buy these.

The other market will be for those who have to, wish to or want to buy
'uncertified' property.
Which might be anything from a house with needs a rewire to one which need
rebuilding.


--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html


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