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Jon Taylor
 
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Default Replacing downstairs bog - soil pipe problems

Dear fellow uk.d-i-y'ers,

I'm replacing the downstairs bog (which was a horrible nasty 1970's
discoloured job) with a nice new closed couple verison.
The new bog outlet sits about a foot back from where the old one was,
so I'll need to put a bend into the existing soil pipe. I guess this
must be quite common for diyers fitting a new bog.

So far I've ripped out the old bog. The soil pipe however is clay and
runs vertically down from the bog about 3 feet, then has a 90 degree
bend in it and runs into the drains. At the top of the pipe is a
cement "collar" which is held on with putty and sits above the
flooboards (It's never going to budge off the pipe!). I've ripped up
the floorboards around the pipe and there is plenty of access - I can
access the entire vertical stretch of the pipe.

So, how do I plumb in the new bog so it fits into the existing soil
pipe? Presumably I will need to cut the existing clay pipe squarely
off. I've read on this newgroup that I could:
a) Use an angle grinder
b) Use a soil pipe cutter tool hired from HSS (about 15 quid for a
days hire)
c) Carefully cut it using a hammer and chisel.

I feel a bit uneasy about using an angle grinder on a soil pipe - and
also the hammer and chisel. Sounds a receipe for disaster, one slip
and I have to start again! So I think that using the soil pipe cutter
tool might be the best option. But how easy are these things to use?
If I get this missus to hold the pipe to stop it flapping about, am I
likely to knacker it up. Any tips for me on how to use it?

As for fitting it to the new bog, presumably I get a plastic adapter
to connect inside the clay pipe and mastic it in. Then have a section
of pipe with a bend in it, then connect to the 'P' trap?

Please help!

Cheers
Jon
  #2   Report Post  
The Natural Philosopher
 
Posts: n/a
Default Replacing downstairs bog - soil pipe problems

Jon Taylor wrote:

Dear fellow uk.d-i-y'ers,

I'm replacing the downstairs bog (which was a horrible nasty 1970's
discoloured job) with a nice new closed couple verison.
The new bog outlet sits about a foot back from where the old one was,
so I'll need to put a bend into the existing soil pipe. I guess this
must be quite common for diyers fitting a new bog.

So far I've ripped out the old bog. The soil pipe however is clay and
runs vertically down from the bog about 3 feet, then has a 90 degree
bend in it and runs into the drains. At the top of the pipe is a
cement "collar" which is held on with putty and sits above the
flooboards (It's never going to budge off the pipe!). I've ripped up
the floorboards around the pipe and there is plenty of access - I can
access the entire vertical stretch of the pipe.

So, how do I plumb in the new bog so it fits into the existing soil
pipe? Presumably I will need to cut the existing clay pipe squarely
off. I've read on this newgroup that I could:
a) Use an angle grinder
b) Use a soil pipe cutter tool hired from HSS (about 15 quid for a
days hire)
c) Carefully cut it using a hammer and chisel.

I feel a bit uneasy about using an angle grinder on a soil pipe - and
also the hammer and chisel. Sounds a receipe for disaster, one slip
and I have to start again! So I think that using the soil pipe cutter
tool might be the best option. But how easy are these things to use?
If I get this missus to hold the pipe to stop it flapping about, am I
likely to knacker it up. Any tips for me on how to use it?

As for fitting it to the new bog, presumably I get a plastic adapter
to connect inside the clay pipe and mastic it in. Then have a section
of pipe with a bend in it, then connect to the 'P' trap?

Please help!

Cheers
Jon


What I did on a plastic pipe in a similar situation is not a solution
you can buy off the shelf. I used a small angle grinder disc bolted to
something I had lying around and fitted it to an electric drill.

The cutter was then used INSIDE the pipe.

Its unguarded, and it needs strength to hold it as it wants to grab
everywhere, but it worked.



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Set Square
 
Posts: n/a
Default Replacing downstairs bog - soil pipe problems

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Jon Taylor wrote:

Dear fellow uk.d-i-y'ers,

I'm replacing the downstairs bog (which was a horrible nasty 1970's
discoloured job) with a nice new closed couple verison.
The new bog outlet sits about a foot back from where the old one was,
so I'll need to put a bend into the existing soil pipe. I guess this
must be quite common for diyers fitting a new bog.

So far I've ripped out the old bog. The soil pipe however is clay and
runs vertically down from the bog about 3 feet, then has a 90 degree
bend in it and runs into the drains. At the top of the pipe is a
cement "collar" which is held on with putty and sits above the
flooboards (It's never going to budge off the pipe!). I've ripped up
the floorboards around the pipe and there is plenty of access - I can
access the entire vertical stretch of the pipe.

So, how do I plumb in the new bog so it fits into the existing soil
pipe? Presumably I will need to cut the existing clay pipe squarely
off. I've read on this newgroup that I could:
a) Use an angle grinder
b) Use a soil pipe cutter tool hired from HSS (about 15 quid for a
days hire)
c) Carefully cut it using a hammer and chisel.

I feel a bit uneasy about using an angle grinder on a soil pipe - and
also the hammer and chisel. Sounds a receipe for disaster, one slip
and I have to start again! So I think that using the soil pipe cutter
tool might be the best option. But how easy are these things to use?
If I get this missus to hold the pipe to stop it flapping about, am I
likely to knacker it up. Any tips for me on how to use it?

As for fitting it to the new bog, presumably I get a plastic adapter
to connect inside the clay pipe and mastic it in. Then have a section
of pipe with a bend in it, then connect to the 'P' trap?

Please help!

Cheers
Jon


Are you planning to cut the clay pipe on the vertical bit, or on the
horizontal bit after it's turned the corner? It's as well to minimise the
number of bends. If the horizontal bit runs straight backwards so as to be
under the new outlet, the best plan would be to shorten that, and to fit a
new complete plastic vertical bit in the right place. Is the outlet on your
new bog horizontal? If so, get a plastic bog outlet elbow with a vertical
bit designed to fit *inside* a 110mm plastic soil pipe (e.g. Screwfix
D15330). That way you can simply cut off your new vertical pipe at floor
level with no extra fittings required. [You will, of course, need a fitting
to join plastic to clay down on the horizontal bit (e.g. Screwfix D19914)].

With regard to cutting off the clay pipe - I certainly wouldn't use a hammer
and chisel - that's a recipe for breaking it off in a very untidy way! I've
got no experience of soil pipe cutters - but reckon that an angle grinder
(with the right sort of disc) should do the job well enough.
--
Cheers,
Set Square
______
Please reply to newsgroup. Reply address is Black Hole!


  #4   Report Post  
Alan
 
Posts: n/a
Default Replacing downstairs bog - soil pipe problems

I've just done very similar stuff but outside 3 foot under my drive.
I used an angle grinder with a diamond cutting disc in it to cut through 2
clay pipes. Easy enough, clean cut. I used adaptors bought from B&Q to
convert clay to plastic, then all new pipework in plastic.
No mastic required as adaptors have rubber seals which seal over the outside
of the clay pipe. I just had to 'lube them a little with washing-up liquid
to encourage them to slip over.

Pipework was easy enough to do, but exposing pipework and filing in hole
afterwards took ages!

Alan.

"Jon Taylor" wrote in message
om...
Dear fellow uk.d-i-y'ers,

I'm replacing the downstairs bog (which was a horrible nasty 1970's
discoloured job) with a nice new closed couple verison.
The new bog outlet sits about a foot back from where the old one was,
so I'll need to put a bend into the existing soil pipe. I guess this
must be quite common for diyers fitting a new bog.

So far I've ripped out the old bog. The soil pipe however is clay and
runs vertically down from the bog about 3 feet, then has a 90 degree
bend in it and runs into the drains. At the top of the pipe is a
cement "collar" which is held on with putty and sits above the
flooboards (It's never going to budge off the pipe!). I've ripped up
the floorboards around the pipe and there is plenty of access - I can
access the entire vertical stretch of the pipe.

So, how do I plumb in the new bog so it fits into the existing soil
pipe? Presumably I will need to cut the existing clay pipe squarely
off. I've read on this newgroup that I could:
a) Use an angle grinder
b) Use a soil pipe cutter tool hired from HSS (about 15 quid for a
days hire)
c) Carefully cut it using a hammer and chisel.

I feel a bit uneasy about using an angle grinder on a soil pipe - and
also the hammer and chisel. Sounds a receipe for disaster, one slip
and I have to start again! So I think that using the soil pipe cutter
tool might be the best option. But how easy are these things to use?
If I get this missus to hold the pipe to stop it flapping about, am I
likely to knacker it up. Any tips for me on how to use it?

As for fitting it to the new bog, presumably I get a plastic adapter
to connect inside the clay pipe and mastic it in. Then have a section
of pipe with a bend in it, then connect to the 'P' trap?

Please help!

Cheers
Jon



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John Woodhall
 
Posts: n/a
Default Replacing downstairs bog - soil pipe problems


"Alan" wrote in message
...
I've just done very similar stuff but outside 3 foot under my drive.
I used an angle grinder with a diamond cutting disc in it to cut through 2
clay pipes. Easy enough, clean cut. I used adaptors bought from B&Q to
convert clay to plastic, then all new pipework in plastic.
No mastic required as adaptors have rubber seals which seal over the

outside
of the clay pipe. I just had to 'lube them a little with washing-up liquid
to encourage them to slip over.

Pipework was easy enough to do, but exposing pipework and filing in hole
afterwards took ages!

Alan.

"Jon Taylor" wrote in message
om...
Dear fellow uk.d-i-y'ers,

I'm replacing the downstairs bog (which was a horrible nasty 1970's
discoloured job) with a nice new closed couple verison.
The new bog outlet sits about a foot back from where the old one was,
so I'll need to put a bend into the existing soil pipe. I guess this
must be quite common for diyers fitting a new bog.

So far I've ripped out the old bog. The soil pipe however is clay and
runs vertically down from the bog about 3 feet, then has a 90 degree
bend in it and runs into the drains. At the top of the pipe is a
cement "collar" which is held on with putty and sits above the
flooboards (It's never going to budge off the pipe!). I've ripped up
the floorboards around the pipe and there is plenty of access - I can
access the entire vertical stretch of the pipe.

So, how do I plumb in the new bog so it fits into the existing soil
pipe? Presumably I will need to cut the existing clay pipe squarely
off. I've read on this newgroup that I could:
a) Use an angle grinder
b) Use a soil pipe cutter tool hired from HSS (about 15 quid for a
days hire)
c) Carefully cut it using a hammer and chisel.

I feel a bit uneasy about using an angle grinder on a soil pipe - and
also the hammer and chisel. Sounds a receipe for disaster, one slip
and I have to start again! So I think that using the soil pipe cutter
tool might be the best option. But how easy are these things to use?
If I get this missus to hold the pipe to stop it flapping about, am I
likely to knacker it up. Any tips for me on how to use it?

As for fitting it to the new bog, presumably I get a plastic adapter
to connect inside the clay pipe and mastic it in. Then have a section
of pipe with a bend in it, then connect to the 'P' trap?

Please help!

Cheers
Jon




I used an angle grinder with a diamond disc, as you say, if access is good
then a 41/2 inch grinder is all thats needed, B&Q were selling a bosch
jobbie with a free diamond disc for 20 quid. May be more economical to buy
this which has many uses than hire to use something once.




  #7   Report Post  
John Rumm
 
Posts: n/a
Default Replacing downstairs bog - soil pipe problems

Jon Taylor wrote:

So, how do I plumb in the new bog so it fits into the existing soil
pipe? Presumably I will need to cut the existing clay pipe squarely
off. I've read on this newgroup that I could:
a) Use an angle grinder
b) Use a soil pipe cutter tool hired from HSS (about 15 quid for a
days hire)
c) Carefully cut it using a hammer and chisel.

I feel a bit uneasy about using an angle grinder on a soil pipe - and
also the hammer and chisel. Sounds a receipe for disaster, one slip
and I have to start again! So I think that using the soil pipe cutter
tool might be the best option. But how easy are these things to use?
If I get this missus to hold the pipe to stop it flapping about, am I
likely to knacker it up. Any tips for me on how to use it?


Not sure if you are going to have space to use a soil pipe cutter. These
are usually quite long (approx 4' handles) and need to work
perpendicular to the pipe you are cutting. They have a toothed chain at
the business end. You lap the chain round the pipe and then hook the end
over a lug on jaws of the tool. You then squeeze the handles of the
cutter, and this pulls the chain very tightly round the pipe forcing the
teeth on the chain into the outer surface of the pipe. The pipe should
then (in theory) snap with a nice square ended break where the chain was.

They work well on nice new soil pipe you get from a builders merchant -
they are less predictable on old salt glazed pipes, and you may find you
need several stabs at a cut to get a clean break.

With older pipes or confined access you may well find a small angle
grinder with masonary disc is actually easier.

As for fitting it to the new bog, presumably I get a plastic adapter
to connect inside the clay pipe and mastic it in. Then have a section
of pipe with a bend in it, then connect to the 'P' trap?


You can get adaption collers with rubber O ring in them that will let
you join to the old pipe and then carry on in plastic. Not sure on what
the regulations are regarding use of mastics on these things though.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/
  #8   Report Post  
Alan
 
Posts: n/a
Default Replacing downstairs bog - soil pipe problems

John,

That's exactly the discs I used - got them in B&Q a few weeks back as seemed
like a good deal.
Work very well on wall tiles also.

Al.

"John Woodhall" wrote in message
...

"Alan" wrote in message
...
I've just done very similar stuff but outside 3 foot under my drive.
I used an angle grinder with a diamond cutting disc in it to cut through

2
clay pipes. Easy enough, clean cut. I used adaptors bought from B&Q to
convert clay to plastic, then all new pipework in plastic.
No mastic required as adaptors have rubber seals which seal over the

outside
of the clay pipe. I just had to 'lube them a little with washing-up

liquid
to encourage them to slip over.

Pipework was easy enough to do, but exposing pipework and filing in

hole
afterwards took ages!

Alan.

"Jon Taylor" wrote in message
om...
Dear fellow uk.d-i-y'ers,

I'm replacing the downstairs bog (which was a horrible nasty 1970's
discoloured job) with a nice new closed couple verison.
The new bog outlet sits about a foot back from where the old one was,
so I'll need to put a bend into the existing soil pipe. I guess this
must be quite common for diyers fitting a new bog.

So far I've ripped out the old bog. The soil pipe however is clay and
runs vertically down from the bog about 3 feet, then has a 90 degree
bend in it and runs into the drains. At the top of the pipe is a
cement "collar" which is held on with putty and sits above the
flooboards (It's never going to budge off the pipe!). I've ripped up
the floorboards around the pipe and there is plenty of access - I can
access the entire vertical stretch of the pipe.

So, how do I plumb in the new bog so it fits into the existing soil
pipe? Presumably I will need to cut the existing clay pipe squarely
off. I've read on this newgroup that I could:
a) Use an angle grinder
b) Use a soil pipe cutter tool hired from HSS (about 15 quid for a
days hire)
c) Carefully cut it using a hammer and chisel.

I feel a bit uneasy about using an angle grinder on a soil pipe - and
also the hammer and chisel. Sounds a receipe for disaster, one slip
and I have to start again! So I think that using the soil pipe cutter
tool might be the best option. But how easy are these things to use?
If I get this missus to hold the pipe to stop it flapping about, am I
likely to knacker it up. Any tips for me on how to use it?

As for fitting it to the new bog, presumably I get a plastic adapter
to connect inside the clay pipe and mastic it in. Then have a section
of pipe with a bend in it, then connect to the 'P' trap?

Please help!

Cheers
Jon




I used an angle grinder with a diamond disc, as you say, if access is good
then a 41/2 inch grinder is all thats needed, B&Q were selling a bosch
jobbie with a free diamond disc for 20 quid. May be more economical to buy
this which has many uses than hire to use something once.




  #9   Report Post  
Peter Taylor
 
Posts: n/a
Default Replacing downstairs bog - soil pipe problems

Jon, the drain collar was originally intended for an S trap pan complying with
the old BS, with a separate cistern and a flush pipe. Might even have been with
a high level cistern. Replacement with a close coupled suite is problematic, as
you've found. You can still get S trap pans (Twyford Classic for instance). It
would save you needing to cut off the collar.

Peter

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Set Square
 
Posts: n/a
Default Replacing downstairs bog - soil pipe problems

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Peter Taylor wrote:

Jon, the drain collar was originally intended for an S trap pan
complying with the old BS, with a separate cistern and a flush pipe.
Might even have been with a high level cistern. Replacement with a
close coupled suite is problematic, as you've found. You can still
get S trap pans (Twyford Classic for instance). It would save you
needing to cut off the collar.

Peter


Except that it's in the wrong place (too far from the wall) for a
close-coupled pan - and the OP specifically wants close-coupled.
--
Cheers,
Set Square
______
Please reply to newsgroup. Reply address is Black Hole!




  #11   Report Post  
Zymurgy
 
Posts: n/a
Default Replacing downstairs bog - soil pipe problems

(Andrew Gabriel) wrote
(Jon Taylor) writes:

I'm replacing the downstairs bog (which was a horrible nasty 1970's
discoloured job) with a nice new closed couple verison.


As someone else who took their avacardo bathroom suite to the tip
a few months ago, to join the variety of other colours there ...


I bought a nice, new white bog to replace the old one I have. Then the
girlfriend says, oh, I quite like the colour of the old one (pink).

Bloody wimmin.

Now I have to store the bleeding thing somewhere, I bought it a while
ago, not sure they'll take it back now .. :-((

Cheers

Paul.
  #12   Report Post  
Owain
 
Posts: n/a
Default Replacing downstairs bog - soil pipe problems

"Zymurgy" wrote
| I bought a nice, new white bog to replace the old one I have.
| Then the girlfriend says, oh, I quite like the colour of the
| old one (pink).
| Bloody wimmin.
| Now I have to store the bleeding thing somewhere, I bought it
| a while ago, not sure they'll take it back now .. :-((

Replace both loo and girlfriend. Problem solved.

Owain


  #13   Report Post  
Zymurgy
 
Posts: n/a
Default Replacing downstairs bog - soil pipe problems

"Owain" wrote
"Zymurgy" wrote
| I bought a nice, new white bog to replace the old one I have.
| Then the girlfriend says, oh, I quite like the colour of the
| old one (pink).
| Bloody wimmin.
| Now I have to store the bleeding thing somewhere, I bought it
| a while ago, not sure they'll take it back now .. :-((

Replace both loo and girlfriend. Problem solved.


It's a compelling argument

P.
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