Ok, I know its netequette to bottom post on ngs, but please, edit the post
so that it doesnt repeat everyones previous post.

Scroll scroll scroll really does me in , just to read a 1 line reply.

Or is there some better way to read the posts?

--
(º·.¸(¨*·.¸ ¸.·*¨)¸.·º)
«.·°·. To@d .·°·.»
(¸.·º(¸.·¨* *¨·.¸)º·.¸)

In article , "to@d"
to@d© says...
Ok, I know its netequette to bottom post on ngs, but please, edit the post
so that it doesnt repeat everyones previous post.

Scroll scroll scroll really does me in , just to read a 1 line reply.

Or is there some better way to read the posts?

Gravity has an option to only display a certain number of quoted lines,
which can help. You can set how much your mouse wheel scrolls with each
click. PgDn can be useful.
But in a better world people would quote selectively, repeating only
those lines needed to lend context to their response.

"to@d" to@d© wrote in message
...
Ok, I know its netequette to bottom post on ngs, but please, edit the post
so that it doesnt repeat everyones previous post.

Scroll scroll scroll really does me in , just to read a 1 line reply.

Or is there some better way to read the posts?

--
(º·.¸(¨*·.¸ ¸.·*¨)¸.·º)
«.·°·. To@d .·°·.»
(¸.·º(¸.·¨* *¨·.¸)º·.¸)


Ctl END takes you to the bottom

In article ,
IMM wrote:
Ctl END takes you to the bottom

Is that why you never trim? Including setting your system to remove sigs?

--
*Corduroy pillows are making headlines.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Ctl END takes you to the bottom

Which reader . We don't all subscribe to MS.

Dave

--

Some people use windows, others have a life.

"Dave Stanton" wrote in message
news

Ctl END takes you to the bottom

Which reader . We don't all subscribe to MS.


But the OP does, and that is who IMM was directing his comment to !...

"to@d" to@d© wrote in
:

Ok, I know its netequette to bottom post on ngs, but please, edit the
post so that it doesnt repeat everyones previous post.

snip

Or is there some better way to read the posts?

No, it's just a matter of sensible snipping; leave in what's relevant and
cut the rest.

TBH, I've found that in a newsgroup with such concentrated expertise
experience and wisdom on such a wide sread of knowledge it can be hard to
find anything to snip.

mike

Which reader . We don't all subscribe to MS.


But the OP does, and that is who IMM was directing his comment to !...

To be pedantic, it would not hurt to have said ' in IE you do....'

Dave

--

Some people use windows, others have a life.

"Dave Stanton" wrote in message
news

Which reader . We don't all subscribe to MS.


But the OP does, and that is who IMM was directing his comment to !...

To be pedantic, it would not hurt to have said ' in IE you do....'

To be even more pedantic, one could mention the right piece of software as
well, i.e. "OE"

"Huge" wrote in message
...
"G&M" writes:

"Dave Stanton" wrote in message
news

Which reader . We don't all subscribe to MS.


But the OP does, and that is who IMM was directing his comment to
!...

To be pedantic, it would not hurt to have said ' in IE you do....'

To be even more pedantic, one could mention the right piece of software
as
well, i.e. "OE"


Who cares? They're all ****.

Rather a sweeping generalisation.

"to@d" to@d© wrote in
:

Ok, I know its netequette to bottom post on ngs,

Actually that depends on the ng. The preference here is for bottom post but
several others I read are top post.

Yes, top post it as in any normal email or filing system.
90% of all news readers are OE. Even new ones like Mozilla are now
conforming.
Regards
Capitol

to@d wrote:

Ok, I know its netequette to bottom post on ngs, but please, edit the post
so that it doesnt repeat everyones previous post.

Scroll scroll scroll really does me in , just to read a 1 line reply.

Or is there some better way to read the posts?

"Huge" wrote in message
...
"G&M" writes:

"Huge" wrote in message
...
"G&M" writes:

"Dave Stanton" wrote in message
news
Which reader . We don't all subscribe to MS.


But the OP does, and that is who IMM was directing his comment to
!...

To be pedantic, it would not hurt to have said ' in IE you do....'

To be even more pedantic, one could mention the right piece of
software
as
well, i.e. "OE"


Who cares? They're all ****.

Rather a sweeping generalisation.

Err, no. All Microsoft software is ****. I'm quite happy to go into
details if you wish, but I suspect that would bore most other readers
of this newsgroup.


--
"The road to Paradise is through Intercourse."
[email me at huge [at] huge [dot] org [dot] uk]







see what I mean about not cutting the rubbish above.
just so busy squabbling like kids , I give up, cut dont cut I dont care that
much, i just wont bother reading past page 1.

This hasn't been cut purposly to show what I mean.

uncut post

toad

I havnt included any sigs, as it seems to upset some.


scrolled down enough now

to@d wrote:

see what I mean about not cutting the rubbish above.
just so busy squabbling like kids , I give up, cut dont cut I dont care that
much, i just wont bother reading past page 1.

What the hell is page 1 ???


--
Grunff

"Huge" wrote in message
...
To be pedantic, it would not hurt to have said ' in IE you do....'

To be even more pedantic, one could mention the right piece of
software
as
well, i.e. "OE"


Who cares? They're all ****.

Rather a sweeping generalisation.

Err, no. All Microsoft software is ****.

Okay. A specific generalisation, usually made by those with some bee in
their bonnet about MS and unable to remember how bad things were before
their dominance and how file swapping between applications was almost
impossible. Do you really want to be in a world infested with Apples or
Linux boxes where you have to try umpteen times to import data from outside.
Now those machines are **** !

Now if you want a real OS, use Solaris. But don't moan at the cost.

In message , Huge
writes
"G&M" writes:


"to@d" to@d© wrote in
:

Ok, I know its netequette to bottom post on ngs,

Actually that depends on the ng. The preference here is for bottom post but
several others I read are top post.

And therefore a waste of good electrons.

And liable to not get a reply

--
geoff

In article ,
Capitol wrote:
Yes, top post it as in any normal email or filing system.

You'd be expected to read and probably remember e-mail - it comes to you
personally. Not so with newsgroups. You might well be reading hundreds of
different threads - and not from the start either. Hence the need for a
*short* summary.

90% of all news readers are OE. Even new ones like Mozilla are now
conforming.

Just because one format has achieved dominance has nothing to do with how
good it is. Plenty of other examples of this around. It's called clever
marketing.

--
*Why don't sheep shrink when it rains?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

G&M wrote:

Okay. A specific generalisation, usually made by those with some bee in
their bonnet about MS and unable to remember how bad things were before
their dominance and how file swapping between applications was almost
impossible. Do you really want to be in a world infested with Apples or
Linux boxes where you have to try umpteen times to import data from outside.
Now those machines are **** !


I will never forgive MS for building what started to look like a
half-decent OS, then instead of making it better, turning it into XP!!


--
Grunff

If you're lucky.

LOL
Capitol

raden wrote:

In message , Huge
writes

"G&M" writes:



"to@d" to@d© wrote in
:

Ok, I know its netequette to bottom post on ngs,


Actually that depends on the ng. The preference here is for bottom
post but
several others I read are top post.


And therefore a waste of good electrons.

And liable to not get a reply

In article , "G&M"
says...

"Huge" wrote in message
...
To be pedantic, it would not hurt to have said ' in IE you do....'

To be even more pedantic, one could mention the right piece of
software
as
well, i.e. "OE"


Who cares? They're all ****.

Rather a sweeping generalisation.

Err, no. All Microsoft software is ****.

Okay. A specific generalisation, usually made by those with some bee in
their bonnet about MS and unable to remember how bad things were before
their dominance and how file swapping between applications was almost
impossible. Do you really want to be in a world infested with Apples or
Linux boxes where you have to try umpteen times to import data from outside.
Now those machines are **** !

Now if you want a real OS, use Solaris. But don't moan at the cost.

Who's going to moan about the cost of a free operating system? I'm not
so sure about hardware support with Solaris though.

In article , Capitol
wrote:

If you're lucky.

Had enough now of your antisocial posting "style".

*plonk*

--
AJL Electronics (G6FGO) Ltd : Satellite and TV aerial systems
http://www.classicmicrocars.co.uk : http://www.ajlelectronics.co.uk

** Would you like to learn to post effectively? **
** http://www.allmyfaqs.com/faq.pl?How_to_post **

On Sun, 10 Oct 2004 21:22:38 UTC, Capitol
wrote:

Yes, top post it as in any normal email or filing system.
90% of all news readers are OE. Even new ones like Mozilla are now
conforming.

What crap.

*plonk*
--
Bob Eager
begin a new life...dump Windows!

You'd be expected to read and probably remember e-mail - it comes to you
personally. Not so with newsgroups. You might well be reading hundreds of
different threads - and not from the start either. Hence the need for a
*short* summary.
So, is there a newsreader that skips quoted text, and that would make
top/bottom posting irrelevant? Maybe newer versionsof OE? I'm still on 4.72

On 10 Oct 2004 Capitol wrote:

Yes, top post it as in any normal email or filing system.
90% of all news readers are OE.

In normal email it has always been good practice to edit the quoted
text and reply point by point as necessary. Bad habits came in with
tin-pot office mail systems like Quickmail and ICL's abortion the name
of which escapes me. Quickmail definitely encouraged you to reply at
the top and use silly graphical backgrounds.

And then you've got all the new people coming in who buy Windows PCs
because they don't know there's anything better and they just do what
seems easiest at the time. It's laziness that actually gives you more
work to do, like driving forwards into a parking space.

I really hate computers that pretend they're filing systems and
therefore have all the disadvantages of paper-based systems. I call a
directory a directory, not a "folder". Have you ever tried folding one?

The fact that 90% of mail readers on personal computers are OE is the
main cause of the Microsoft virus problem we have today.

--
Richard Porter
Mail to username ricp at domain minijem.plus.com
"You can't have Windows without pains."

In article ,
stuart noble wrote:
You'd be expected to read and probably remember e-mail - it comes to
you personally. Not so with newsgroups. You might well be reading
hundreds of different threads - and not from the start either. Hence
the need for a *short* summary.

So, is there a newsreader that skips quoted text, and that would make
top/bottom posting irrelevant? Maybe newer versionsof OE? I'm still on
4.72

Given that MS products try and change standards to tie you into them, I
doubt they're capable of making anything that works to agreed ones.

--
*I brake for no apparent reason.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Richard Porter" wrote in message
...
snip

The fact that 90% of mail readers on personal computers are OE is the
main cause of the Microsoft virus problem we have today.


No it is not, if MS wasn't around then people would be writing viruses for
what ever OS was most popular.

The REAL cause are the idiots and criminals who write and deploy the
viruses, MS are just as much a victim as those who become infected. You
wouldn't blame the victim of a mugging, after they had used a cash machine,
nor would you blame the Banks for making cash machines available, you would
blame the mugger.

Richard Porter wrote:


I really hate computers that pretend they're filing systems and
therefore have all the disadvantages of paper-based systems. I call a
directory a directory, not a "folder". Have you ever tried folding one?


I have a problem with the use of directory, referring to the file
structure on a computer. You see a directory is a list of things with
further attributes, i.e. a phone directory, or a office personal
directory etc. In computer speak a directory should refer to the list
of users/systems/etc in the organization/domain/etc... Microsoft have
there Active Directory and there's the equlivents in other OS's such as
LDAP.

What connection does a directory really have with a hiarchical filing
structure??

So MS is taking a good step at shifting the thinking to the term folder.

Anyway this thread is a long way away from DIY.

Peter

"Peter" wrote in message
...
Richard Porter wrote:

snip


What connection does a directory really have with a hiarchical filing
structure??

So MS is taking a good step at shifting the thinking to the term folder.

Anyway this thread is a long way away from DIY.

But ... in my reader's view this thread comes immediately
below the 'Blocked Toilet' thread ... seems appropriate!

--

Brian

On 11 Oct 2004 ":::Jerry::::" wrote:

"Richard Porter" wrote:

The fact that 90% of mail readers on personal computers are OE is
the main cause of the Microsoft virus problem we have today.

No it is not, if MS wasn't around then people would be writing
viruses for what ever OS was most popular.

The crucial bit is the "90%". If most people are using the same OS, the
same browser and the same mail/news reader, and that 90% includes near
enough 100% of naïve, inexperienced or just plain stupid users then we
have the ideal environment for propagating viruses. You're right that it
doesn't matter which OS it happens to be, but the fact that Microsoft
is the corporation that everybody loves to hate because of the way it
does business just makes it even more attractive as a target.

The REAL cause are the idiots and criminals who write and deploy the
viruses, MS are just as much a victim as those who become infected.
You wouldn't blame the victim of a mugging, after they had used a
cash machine, nor would you blame the Banks for making cash machines
available, you would blame the mugger.

Maybe, but if you leave your laptop on the car seat or if you leave
your wallet sticking out of your hip pocket, or if you leave your purse
in an open shopping bag over your shoulder then it's partly your fault
when the inevitable happens.

If I buy a house with doors and windows that can't be secured properly
then I shouldn't be surprised if I get burgled. If I leave my back
door wide open because I don't even know I've got a back door it's
even more likely. If I buy a computer that's equally vulnerable and is
one where every miscreant is familiar with the internal workings, then I
shouldn't be surprised if someone walks in and steals my personal
information, passwords, etc.

It's not that other OSs are any more secure (though some are inherently
more robust than Windows): if we had more diversity then it would be
harder for viruses and worms to spread.

--
Richard Porter
Mail to username ricp at domain minijem.plus.com
"You can't have Windows without pains."

In article , ":::Jerry::::"
says...

"Richard Porter" wrote in message
...
snip

The fact that 90% of mail readers on personal computers are OE is the
main cause of the Microsoft virus problem we have today.


No it is not, if MS wasn't around then people would be writing viruses for
what ever OS was most popular.

Windows has a virtual monopoly of the desktop, and has historically put
convenience and fancy features before security. Were it not so
prevalent, or had Microsoft woken up to the problem they were creating
before their current "security before all else (but you have to buy XP
to do it, and SP2 might break your favourite applications)" marketing
ploy, then it would be harder for viruses to spread like wildfire in the
way that we have seen over the past few years.

On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 13:11:37 +0100, ":::Jerry::::"
wrote:


"Richard Porter" wrote in message
...
snip

The fact that 90% of mail readers on personal computers are OE is the
main cause of the Microsoft virus problem we have today.


No it is not, if MS wasn't around then people would be writing viruses for
what ever OS was most popular.

The REAL cause are the idiots and criminals who write and deploy the
viruses, MS are just as much a victim as those who become infected. You
wouldn't blame the victim of a mugging, after they had used a cash machine,
nor would you blame the Banks for making cash machines available, you would
blame the mugger.



The two come together. There are cash machines that use NT4 as part
of their operation. I was quite concerned when I learned that.




..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

In article , "Peter"
says...
snip
I have a problem with the use of directory, referring to the file
structure on a computer. You see a directory is a list of things with
further attributes, i.e. a phone directory, or a office personal
directory etc. In computer speak a directory should refer to the list
of users/systems/etc in the organization/domain/etc... Microsoft have
there Active Directory and there's the equlivents in other OS's such as
LDAP.

In a filesystem directory the further attributes are creation and
modification date, size, owner, permissions.

What connection does a directory really have with a hiarchical filing
structure??

More than with the filing-cabinet/folder/file metaphor that Microsoft
wants us to use - how often do you find folders within folders within
folders in the real world? But then MS has always been a bit challenged
when it comes to designing useful file systems.

So MS is taking a good step at shifting the thinking to the term folder.

Yeah right.

"to@d" to@d© wrote in message
...
Ok, I know its netequette to bottom post on ngs, but please, edit the post
so that it doesnt repeat everyones previous
.................................... rest of message snipped
.....................................

Good idea. S'pecially with some of my long diatribes, eh? You mean; like
this? Terry.

In article , Andy Hall wrote:


The two come together. There are cash machines that use NT4 as part
of their operation. I was quite concerned when I learned that.



I came across one such cashpoint one Monday morning that had 'blue screened',
quite amusing, it made my day.

--
simon at sbarr dot demon dot co dot uk
Simon Barr.
'97 110 300Tdi.

Capitol wrote:
Yes, top post it as in any normal email or filing system.
Then;
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
You'd be expected to read and probably remember e-mail - it comes to you
personally. Not so with newsgroups. You might well be reading hundreds of
different threads - and not from the start either. Hence the need for a
*short* summary.
............................ snipped ..........................

I agree with Dave Plowman.
The expression "Start at the beginning go on the end and then stop" (Sounds
like something from Alice in Wonderland, like this whole thread!) seems to
apply.
For e-mails yes; most recent at the top. As in "what came in, did xyz reply
to me etc.".
But especially when a thread gets long and tedious, like this one maybe, a
quick resume of what the thread is/was about is necessary? While we try to
keep titles brief they sometimes don't help one remember what the original
topic/question was.
When one sees something such as "Fluorescent lamps", it can be about almost
anything to do with fluorescent fixture, lamps, voltages, method of
mounting, earthing, you name it!
Also the unreliability and timing of some providers seems to ensure that I
don't always see the original posting and/or some in between current and the
original. However many of us seem to assume that everyone DOES get to see
everything and in short order from when it is posted?
Considering these factors, regardless of netiquette(sp?) bottom posting
seems to make most sense; even formal business letters traditionally start
with something along the lines of "In regard to your enquiry about/of
............ etc. ............". That is they 'introduce' or refer
to the topic first, then make their reply/comment.
..08 pence and all help from here much apprecaited. Terry..

In article , "stuart noble"
says...

You'd be expected to read and probably remember e-mail - it comes to you
personally. Not so with newsgroups. You might well be reading hundreds of
different threads - and not from the start either. Hence the need for a
*short* summary.
So, is there a newsreader that skips quoted text, and that would make
top/bottom posting irrelevant? Maybe newer versionsof OE? I'm still on 4.72

Gravity can display a fixed number of quoted lines (default four, but
you can set it to zero) and you can toggle this feature with a single
key-press while reading.

snipped

so that it doesnt repeat everyones previous
................................... rest of message snipped
....................................

Good idea. S'pecially with some of my long diatribes, eh? You mean; like
this? Terry.

So all agrreed then, bottom posting with voracious snipping.

( can o' worms comes to mind with this thread, usually we are all so
civilised)

On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 13:22:05 +0100, Peter wrote:

Richard Porter wrote:


I really hate computers that pretend they're filing systems and
therefore have all the disadvantages of paper-based systems. I call a
directory a directory, not a "folder". Have you ever tried folding one?


I have a problem with the use of directory, referring to the file
structure on a computer. You see a directory is a list of things with
further attributes, i.e. a phone directory, or a office personal
directory etc. In computer speak a directory should refer to the list
of users/systems/etc in the organization/domain/etc... Microsoft have
there Active Directory and there's the equlivents in other OS's such as
LDAP.

True - but...

In OS terms it *is* a directory. Within unix filesystems, a directory
is merely a structured file containing the names and inode-numbers of the file's
data + header section. The inode is a structure which further defines
which logical blocks on the disk random bits of the file are stored. So to
open a file, the OS consults the directory-file to find out where the
actual file lives.

Most other systems (including FAT) work in a similar way. (Let's not get
into Plan9 - I don't know how that works, but it's probably significantly
weird).

So there is a good historic reason why the name came to be, long before
Bill Gates was out of his nappy :-/

Cheers

Timbo

On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 12:22:05 UTC, Peter
wrote:

I have a problem with the use of directory, referring to the file
structure on a computer. You see a directory is a list of things with
further attributes, i.e. a phone directory, or a office personal
directory etc. In computer speak a directory should refer to the list
of users/systems/etc in the organization/domain/etc... Microsoft have
there Active Directory and there's the equlivents in other OS's such as
LDAP.

What connection does a directory really have with a hiarchical filing
structure??

A directory is a thing you look in to find out the address or number of
something. A directory is merely part of a filing system structure, and
it's what the filing system consults to find out where a file is.

--
Bob Eager
begin a new life...dump Windows!

On 2004-10-10, Capitol wrote:
Yes, top post it as in any normal email or filing system.
90% of all news readers are OE. Even new ones like Mozilla are now
conforming.
Regards
Capitol

Errm, pardon? New? Mozilla wasn't the first Newsreader, but it was the first
web browser that also handled 'news' and appeared long before Bill G
'discovered' the Internet let alone begat IE and OE.

(Netscape 1.0 aka 'Mozilla' had a nice newsreader built in that handled
threads nicely and the executable easily fit on a floppy).

I've become totally underwhelmed by GUI newsreaders and have gone
back to slrn ('rn' would be a bit too austere!)


to@d wrote:

Ok, I know its netequette to bottom post on ngs, but please, edit the post
so that it doesnt repeat everyones previous post.

Scroll scroll scroll really does me in , just to read a 1 line reply.

Or is there some better way to read the posts?


OK, just winding you up - I do know _which_ 'Mozilla' you mean.
--
Jan