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UK diy (uk.d-i-y) For the discussion of all topics related to diy (do-it-yourself) in the UK. All levels of experience and proficency are welcome to join in to ask questions or offer solutions. |
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Ripped off by a plumber
I wondered if this was a common con, and whether I have any
case against the plumber? About a year ago I called a plumber because the gas solenoid valve on my Glowworm Galaxie back boiler died. Just before the plumber left he switched the pump to maximum speed - didn't think much of it at the time (didn't know enough about plumping) and assumed he knew what he was doing... Two weeks ago one of the downstairs radiators started leaking - there was literally a fountain of water gushing from a hole in the rad which had corroded from the inside. Discovered the system has been "pumping over" for about a year. The CH tank was full of steaming hot water and 3" depth of brown sludge. Turned down the pump, cleaned out the tank, replaced the rad and added corrosion inhibitor. This morning another radiator started leaking, again, corroded from the inside. I'll take this up with trading standards and CORGI. In the mean time, is there anything else I need to do apart from replacing all the radiators? Is the boiler at risk too? Pete. |
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Ripped off by a plumber
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#3
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Ripped off by a plumber
Subject: Ripped off by a plumber
From: (Pete) Date: 21/03/04 17:49 GMT Standard Time Message-id: I wondered if this was a common con, and whether I have any case against the plumber? About a year ago I called a plumber because the gas solenoid valve on my Glowworm Galaxie back boiler died. Just before the plumber left he switched the pump to maximum speed - didn't think much of it at the time (didn't know enough about plumping) and assumed he knew what he was doing... Two weeks ago one of the downstairs radiators started leaking - there was literally a fountain of water gushing from a hole in the rad which had corroded from the inside. Discovered the system has been "pumping over" for about a year. The CH tank was full of steaming hot water and 3" depth of brown sludge. Turned down the pump, cleaned out the tank, replaced the rad and added corrosion inhibitor. This morning another radiator started leaking, again, corroded from the inside. I'll take this up with trading standards and CORGI. In the mean time, is there anything else I need to do apart from replacing all the radiators? Is the boiler at risk too? There's no way it's the plumber's fault or done deliberately. If the system is piped correctly it shouldn't overflow anyway. You possibly have the overflow pipe on the pressure side of the pump rather than the return side. Maybe at some time in the past a new pump was fitted the other way round from the original one. As an aside. When I got my system running again after a year without heating due to renovations I found it was cycling into the header tank as well. By chance I had to get something out of the loft about three weeks after starting up the boiler again. The loft was wringing wet with condensation, all the boxes stored up there were damp and mouldy and the header tank was boiling hot. I followed the pipework through and my overflow was on the pressure side of the pump too. In fact the loft has always been very damp so I think my problem has existed since the pump was changed 10 years ago and maybe fitted the wrong way round. Rather than eff about for too long I dug out an old radiator valve, stuck it on the 15mm overflow pipe with a new olive and turned the bugger off. Hasn't made a scrap of difference to how the system works. The loft is now bone dry too which is nice. If you think about it the system can blow off excess pressure or water through the fill pipe just as well as it can through the overflow pipe and you have the advantage of a head of water to stop the pump forcing anything out in normal operation. I'm now beginning to wonder if there's any point in having an overflow pipe in the first place. Comments welcome. As to your rads corroding through. They won't have done that in a year regardless of how the system was operating. I've had no inhibitor in mine for 17 years, for the last 10 at least I've had overpumping into the header and one rad has only just finally succumbed to corrosion. The boiler is still mint inside because I had a look while the system was apart. Dave Baker - Puma Race Engines (www.pumaracing.co.uk) I'm not at all sure why women like men. We're argumentative, childish, unsociable and extremely unappealing naked. I'm quite grateful they do though. |
#4
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Ripped off by a plumber
"Pete" wrote in message m... I wondered if this was a common con, and whether I have any case against the plumber? About a year ago I called a plumber because the gas solenoid valve on my Glowworm Galaxie back boiler died. Just before the plumber left he switched the pump to maximum speed - didn't think much of it at the time (didn't know enough about plumping) and assumed he knew what he was doing... Two weeks ago one of the downstairs radiators started leaking - there was literally a fountain of water gushing from a hole in the rad which had corroded from the inside. Discovered the system has been "pumping over" for about a year. The CH tank was full of steaming hot water and 3" depth of brown sludge. Turned down the pump, cleaned out the tank, replaced the rad and added corrosion inhibitor. This morning another radiator started leaking, again, corroded from the inside. I'll take this up with trading standards and CORGI. In the mean time, is there anything else I need to do apart from replacing all the radiators? Is the boiler at risk too? Sorry, but how is a corroded rad anything to do with what the plumber did, I'm no fan of them, but I really do fail to see the connection ! All steel components are at risk, they were before the plumber even knew of you, and they would have been at risk even if the plumber had not touched the pump. Even if I'm wrong about the pump setting, you can of course prove that the plumber increased the pump speed and not some else ? Did you not anti corrosion in you system before now, if not why not, and how did fixing a faulty gas valve and changing the pump setting affect this ?.... IMO, basically you are looking for someone to blame, your plumber is not that person and I suspect any TS or CORGI office will agree. |
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Ripped off by a plumber
In article ,
Jerry. wrote: Sorry, but how is a corroded rad anything to do with what the plumber did, I'm no fan of them, but I really do fail to see the connection ! All steel components are at risk, they were before the plumber even knew of you, and they would have been at risk even if the plumber had not touched the pump. An open heating system, done correctly, will use very little water - indeed Servowarm didn't supply any cold water feed to the header tank, you just topped it up every few years. So there's no air in the water, and without oxygen, steel can't corrode. But if you allow the system to pump over, this aerates the water and *will* cause corrosion. -- *If at first you don't succeed, try management * Dave Plowman London SW 12 RIP Acorn |
#7
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Ripped off by a plumber
In article ,
Dave Baker wrote: There's no way it's the plumber's fault or done deliberately. If the system is piped correctly it shouldn't overflow anyway. You possibly have the overflow pipe on the pressure side of the pump rather than the return side. Maybe at some time in the past a new pump was fitted the other way round from the original one. Pumps aren't individually sized - they are adjustable to provide just enough head to feed the highest rad while not pumping over. And a correctly implemented one can still pump over if set too high. As an aside. When I got my system running again after a year without heating due to renovations I found it was cycling into the header tank as well. By chance I had to get something out of the loft about three weeks after starting up the boiler again. The loft was wringing wet with condensation, all the boxes stored up there were damp and mouldy and the header tank was boiling hot. I followed the pipework through and my overflow was on the pressure side of the pump too. In fact the loft has always been very damp so I think my problem has existed since the pump was changed 10 years ago and maybe fitted the wrong way round. Rather than eff about for too long I dug out an old radiator valve, stuck it on the 15mm overflow pipe with a new olive and turned the bugger off. Hasn't made a scrap of difference to how the system works. The loft is now bone dry too which is nice. Think you might have a problem if the water boils. It shouldn't unless the boiler overheat thermostat fails closed, but if it does, you could have a nasty. The expansion pipe is there for a reason. Also, as the water expands, it will do so into the open top tank and be aerated, and drawn back in as it cools. Not a good idea. If you think about it the system can blow off excess pressure or water through the fill pipe just as well as it can through the overflow pipe and you have the advantage of a head of water to stop the pump forcing anything out in normal operation. I'm now beginning to wonder if there's any point in having an overflow pipe in the first place. Comments welcome. As to your rads corroding through. They won't have done that in a year regardless of how the system was operating. I've had no inhibitor in mine for 17 years, for the last 10 at least I've had overpumping into the header and one rad has only just finally succumbed to corrosion. The boiler is still mint inside because I had a look while the system was apart. -- *If you don't like the news, go out and make some. Dave Plowman London SW 12 RIP Acorn |
#8
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Ripped off by a plumber
On Sun, 21 Mar 2004 20:38:16 +0000, Jerry. wrote:
"Pete" wrote in message m... I wondered if this was a common con, and whether I have any case against the plumber? About a year ago I called a plumber because the gas solenoid valve on my Glowworm Galaxie back boiler died. Just before the plumber left he switched the pump to maximum speed - didn't think much of it at the time (didn't know enough about plumping) and assumed he knew what he was doing... Two weeks ago one of the downstairs radiators started leaking - there was literally a fountain of water gushing from a hole in the rad which had corroded from the inside. Discovered the system has been "pumping over" for about a year. The CH tank was full of steaming hot water and 3" depth of brown sludge. Turned down the pump, cleaned out the tank, replaced the rad and added corrosion inhibitor. This morning another radiator started leaking, again, corroded from the inside. I'll take this up with trading standards and CORGI. In the mean time, is there anything else I need to do apart from replacing all the radiators? Is the boiler at risk too? Sorry, but how is a corroded rad anything to do with what the plumber did, It has everything to do with what he did! However the age of the boiler and radiators is such that they were probably fairly corroded before he began but initiating pumping-over will only have accelerated the rad's demise. I would expect the boiler to be at risk over a period of perhaps 10 years or so from pumping over the failure would be from a leaking heat exchanger. It is possible due to the age of the boiler (c. 20 years) that there was considerable kettling and the plumber tried to help things along with a higher pump setting. Having said that there should be no pumping over on a correctly installed system and that brings the possibility that the last year was likely not the only time that this occurred. Even if I'm wrong about the pump setting, you can of course prove that the plumber increased the pump speed and not some else ? Did you not anti corrosion in you system before now, if not why not, and how did fixing a faulty gas valve and changing the pump setting affect this ?.... IMO, basically you are looking for someone to blame, your plumber is not that person and I suspect any TS or CORGI office will agree. The bottom line is that a COMPLETE new system is now required (the copper pipes are reuseable after flushing). -- Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter. The FAQ for uk.diy is at www.diyfaq.org.uk Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html |
#9
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Ripped off by a plumber
Thanks for the useful advice and thanks to everyone who replied.
I'm sure I don't stand a cat in hell's chance of any comeback against this company. The system was not pumping over before the plumber called as I checked everything the month before. The second rad that went was only 4 years old. With the pump switched from setting 3 (full) down to 2 the tank is now stone cold. There's absolutely no doubt in my mind this was done deliberately. This ******* has cost me a lot of work and hundreds of pounds. I will be taking it up with CORGI and Sutton Trading Standards - if only to make them aware of this company. A damn good scam really, a simple flick of a switch, noone can prove anything, and in most cases repeat business next year. I shudder to think how many other people they've done this to... All the best, Pete. |
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