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UK diy (uk.d-i-y) For the discussion of all topics related to diy (do-it-yourself) in the UK. All levels of experience and proficency are welcome to join in to ask questions or offer solutions. |
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Towel Radiator with Microbore
All,
Im thinking about installing a towel radiator in my bathroom. However, my central heating is Microbore and Im not sure what sort of fittings I need to connect the radiator to the central heating system. Ive created a diagram to try and explain how it fits together.... http://www.btinternet.com/~remotec/towel.htm The side view is meant to show how far the pipes come away from the wall. The front view is reasonable self explanatory I hope. The current radiator fits in between the 570mm span. Will it be possible to install some sort of valves that go upwards instead of inwards (towards the radiator) like the current ones do and then perhaps put a reducer on that to make it into the correct size (15mm??) to feed the radiator? The microbore is embedded in the wall of the bathroom so I don't have much flexibility to move it around. I've had a quick look on screwfix etc and I can see radiators advertised that are for example 600mm in width. I presume that that measurement is the total width of the item and not the width between the two pipes that would feed it? If anyone can give me a quick and simple overview of what I would need to do fit the radiator Id be very very grateful. Thanks in advance, CM. |
#2
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Towel Radiator with Microbore
"Charles Middleton" wrote in message ... All, Im thinking about installing a towel radiator in my bathroom. However, my central heating is Microbore and Im not sure what sort of fittings I need to connect the radiator to the central heating system. Ive created a diagram to try and explain how it fits together.... http://www.btinternet.com/~remotec/towel.htm The side view is meant to show how far the pipes come away from the wall. The front view is reasonable self explanatory I hope. The current radiator fits in between the 570mm span. Will it be possible to install some sort of valves that go upwards instead of inwards (towards the radiator) like the current ones do and then perhaps put a reducer on that to make it into the correct size (15mm??) to feed the radiator? The microbore is embedded in the wall of the bathroom so I don't have much flexibility to move it around. I've had a quick look on screwfix etc and I can see radiators advertised that are for example 600mm in width. I presume that that measurement is the total width of the item and not the width between the two pipes that would feed it? If anyone can give me a quick and simple overview of what I would need to do fit the radiator Id be very very grateful. Thanks in advance, CM. ===================== You can use 'inline valves' as recommended by Screwfix in the description of the towel radiators. Also look for 'reducer' (in www.screwfix.co.uk) which will point you to either 15 * 10 or 15 * 8 reducers. You will have to check the size of your microbore pipe (either 8mm or 10mm) to decide which reducer you need. Of course it would be more sensible to buy a couple of reducers from your local plumbers' merchants rather than buy the pack from Screwfix unless you need them for other jobs. I'm pretty sure that 600mm is the size of the radiator but you'll always need a bit of extra space for fitting the pipework and you should be able to extend your existing pipework if necessary using a 'straight coupler' - also from your local supplier. Cic. |
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Towel Radiator with Microbore
On Sun, 7 Mar 2004 20:45:18 +0000 (UTC), "Charles Middleton"
wrote: All, Im thinking about installing a towel radiator in my bathroom. However, my central heating is Microbore and Im not sure what sort of fittings I need to connect the radiator to the central heating system. Ive created a diagram to try and explain how it fits together.... http://www.btinternet.com/~remotec/towel.htm The side view is meant to show how far the pipes come away from the wall. The front view is reasonable self explanatory I hope. The current radiator fits in between the 570mm span. Will it be possible to install some sort of valves that go upwards instead of inwards (towards the radiator) like the current ones do and then perhaps put a reducer on that to make it into the correct size (15mm??) to feed the radiator? The microbore is embedded in the wall of the bathroom so I don't have much flexibility to move it around. I've had a quick look on screwfix etc and I can see radiators advertised that are for example 600mm in width. I presume that that measurement is the total width of the item and not the width between the two pipes that would feed it? If anyone can give me a quick and simple overview of what I would need to do fit the radiator Id be very very grateful. Thanks in advance, CM. Yes you can. If the towel rail has tappings in the bottom, one way is to use straight through radiator valves fitted vertically if the pipes are as you've drawn them. Otherwise you will have to do some adjustment of the pipework. You will need to buy some soft copper microbore tube of appropriate diameter (a plumber's merchant may let you have a short length) and some fittings and possibly a pipe bender. You will need a small microbore pipe cutter. Pipe benders for microbore are a hand held tool available for a bout a tenner. If you have enough space to make bends this way, the job should be neater and the flow better. However, you can get bends for microbore with a fairly gentle bend which are not too bad. Given the tight space of the pipe against the wall, you may have to use bends. To connect on, cut the pipe on the horizontal portion if you need to add a piece. Don't try to unbend the pipe - it will have hardened with time and will likely simply crease. For the valves, you may be able to get microbore ones. Otherwise there are reducers which have a microbore female end and a 15mm male tail. You attach the reducer to the pipe and then it will insert into the valve as though it has 15mm tube. There are also reducing ring sets which fit into the valve. However, unless you are really careful and also assemble in the right order (not obvious) they are a PITA. ..andy To email, substitute .nospam with .gl |
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Towel Radiator with Microbore
snip Thanks Andy/Cicero for your help on that one - looks like next weekends project is a towel radiator then! One more question - will there be any problems with connecting the radiator to my system? Are there any differences with using the Towel Rad. with microbore over 15mm plumbing? CM. |
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Towel Radiator with Microbore
On Sun, 7 Mar 2004 22:23:18 +0000 (UTC), "Charles Middleton"
wrote: snip Thanks Andy/Cicero for your help on that one - looks like next weekends project is a towel radiator then! One more question - will there be any problems with connecting the radiator to my system? Are there any differences with using the Towel Rad. with microbore over 15mm plumbing? CM. It should be OK unless you have a very high output one (although I have never seen a towel radiator with high output). As a rule of thumb, with 8mm tube over typical lengths in a house of say 4-5m from the manifold or other connection to the main flow and return, you can get about 1.5kW worth of water flow. With 10mm, it's about 2.5kW. So unless you have really long runs, you should be OK. You may have to play with the lockshield valve. Don't forget the inhibitor :-) ..andy To email, substitute .nospam with .gl |
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Towel Radiator with Microbore
Andy Hall wrote:
It should be OK unless you have a very high output one (although I have never seen a towel radiator with high output). As a rule of thumb, with 8mm tube over typical lengths in a house of say 4-5m from the manifold or other connection to the main flow and return, you can get about 1.5kW worth of water flow. With 10mm, it's about 2.5kW. So unless you have really long runs, you should be OK. You may have to play with the lockshield valve. Don't forget the inhibitor :-) Sorry to appear stupid :-) but whats the lock shield valve and whats an inhibitor? Feel free to refer to the relevant plumbing for dummies web site! Also, Id be interested in installing an electic heater onto the rail. I understand that you should have a mains outlet in a bathroom for good reason. The room adjacent to my bathroom is my landing and this has a plug socket on the wall - very close to where the rail will be in the bathroom. Is it acceptable for me to take a spur from that socket to a switch and then wire from the switch to the rail? This would be on the upstairs ring circuit which already has one spur on it running a double 13amp plug socket. Cheers, CM. |
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Towel Radiator with Microbore
Charles Middleton wrote: snip Also, Id be interested in installing an electic heater onto the rail. I understand that you should have a mains outlet in a bathroom for good reason. That should have ready *should not* have a mains outlet in a bathroom ..... CM. |
#8
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Towel Radiator with Microbore
In article , Charles Middleton
writes Also, Id be interested in installing an electic heater onto the rail. I understand that you should have a mains outlet in a bathroom for good reason. In case the mother-in-law comes to visit? -- Paul |
#9
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Towel Radiator with Microbore
On Tue, 9 Mar 2004 10:32:21 +0000 (UTC), Charles Middleton
wrote: Andy Hall wrote: It should be OK unless you have a very high output one (although I have never seen a towel radiator with high output). As a rule of thumb, with 8mm tube over typical lengths in a house of say 4-5m from the manifold or other connection to the main flow and return, you can get about 1.5kW worth of water flow. With 10mm, it's about 2.5kW. So unless you have really long runs, you should be OK. You may have to play with the lockshield valve. Don't forget the inhibitor :-) Sorry to appear stupid :-) but whats the lock shield valve and whats an inhibitor? Feel free to refer to the relevant plumbing for dummies web site! The lockshield valve is the one which you don't use to turn the radiator on and off or isn't the TRV. It has a cap removable by a screw. You adjust it to regulate the flow and hence the temperature drop and heat output of the radiators. The idea is to have the temperature drop the same on all radiators so that they heat evenly and give the design output. There is info. on doing this in the FAQ. If you change a radiator's rating by altering type and size then the flow may need to be adjusted. If it is working OK after fitting then there may be no need to bother. Corrosion Inhibitor is a liquid or gel system additive which dramatically reduces or prevents system corrosion. It costs around £15-20 for a good one like Fernox MB-1 or Superconcentrate and lasts typically around three years. In comparison with the cost of new radiators it is a cheap insurance policy. Also, Id be interested in installing an electic heater onto the rail. I understand that you should have a mains outlet in a bathroom for good reason. The room adjacent to my bathroom is my landing and this has a plug socket on the wall - very close to where the rail will be in the bathroom. Is it acceptable for me to take a spur from that socket to a switch and then wire from the switch to the rail? This would be on the upstairs ring circuit which already has one spur on it running a double 13amp plug socket. There are two aspects to this. The first is the spur. This is OK, as long as the socket is not already a spur and that you have a fused connection unit with 13A (or less) fuse somewhere before the heater, but see note on position below.) The second is location of outlets and switches in a bathroom. Nowadays this is all defined by distance zones relative to baths and showers. There is a reference to it in the Wiring Regulations. This is an extract from one of the popular guides to them. http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Book/7.2.2A.htm The key is location, and whether you are in Zone 2 or 3 or beyond. A towel rail is a fixed appliance for these purposes, so you need to look at requirements for the outlet and switch. If you are able, by dint of the rules to have a switch, then it should be a switch with fuse, or the fused connection unit should precede it. ..andy To email, substitute .nospam with .gl |
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Towel Radiator with Microbore
On Tue, 9 Mar 2004 10:35:07 +0000 (UTC), Charles Middleton
wrote: Charles Middleton wrote: snip Also, Id be interested in installing an electic heater onto the rail. I understand that you should have a mains outlet in a bathroom for good reason. That should have ready *should not* have a mains outlet in a bathroom ..... CM. See other post.... ..andy To email, substitute .nospam with .gl |
#11
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Towel Radiator with Microbore
"Andy Hall" wrote in message ... snip The lockshield valve is the one which you don't use to turn the radiator on and off or isn't the TRV. snip Ok I know what you mean now. Thanks. snip The first is the spur. This is OK, as long as the socket is not already a spur and that you have a fused connection unit with 13A (or less) fuse somewhere before the heater, but see note on position below.) The socket I am talking about is not on a spur and is part of the ring so this is ok. As the socket is on the landing, I plan to take a spur from the socket into a fused switch (one that has a indication light on it as well) and this will also be mounted in the landing, above the original socket I have spurred from. I then plan to run cable (can you advise on type?) through the wall into the bathroom. What I'm not clear on is what fitting is any will be needed to allow the cable through the wall where it will then run into the radiator. Also these are partitions not load bearing walls so I also presume I need some sort of back box in which to mount the switch. Ill have a browse on TLC for that. The second is location of outlets and switches in a bathroom. Nowadays this is all defined by distance zones relative to baths and showers. I dont think this will be a problem as the switch will be outside the bathroom. Cheers, CM. |
#12
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Towel Radiator with Microbore
On Tue, 9 Mar 2004 17:40:22 +0000 (UTC), "Charles Middleton"
wrote: "Andy Hall" wrote in message .. . snip The lockshield valve is the one which you don't use to turn the radiator on and off or isn't the TRV. snip Ok I know what you mean now. Thanks. snip The first is the spur. This is OK, as long as the socket is not already a spur and that you have a fused connection unit with 13A (or less) fuse somewhere before the heater, but see note on position below.) The socket I am talking about is not on a spur and is part of the ring so this is ok. As the socket is on the landing, I plan to take a spur from the socket into a fused switch (one that has a indication light on it as well) and this will also be mounted in the landing, above the original socket I have spurred from. I then plan to run cable (can you advise on type?) through the wall into the bathroom. What I'm not clear on is what fitting is any will be needed to allow the cable through the wall where it will then run into the radiator. This would be a cable outlet, but you need to read through the rules - it depends on location. For the wiring to the rail, use a heat resistant PVC type. Also these are partitions not load bearing walls so I also presume I need some sort of back box in which to mount the switch. Ill have a browse on TLC for that. A dry lining box http://tinyurl.com/ysbes The second is location of outlets and switches in a bathroom. Nowadays this is all defined by distance zones relative to baths and showers. I dont think this will be a problem as the switch will be outside the bathroom. Be careful. Read through all the rules. Cheers, CM. ..andy To email, substitute .nospam with .gl |
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