All,

Im thinking about installing a towel radiator in my bathroom. However, my
central heating is Microbore and Im not sure what sort of fittings I need to
connect the radiator to the central heating system.

Ive created a diagram to try and explain how it fits together....

http://www.btinternet.com/~remotec/towel.htm

The side view is meant to show how far the pipes come away from the wall.

The front view is reasonable self explanatory I hope. The current radiator
fits in between the 570mm span.

Will it be possible to install some sort of valves that go upwards instead
of inwards (towards the radiator) like the current ones do and then perhaps
put a reducer on that to make it into the correct size (15mm??) to feed the
radiator?

The microbore is embedded in the wall of the bathroom so I don't have much
flexibility to move it around. I've had a quick look on screwfix etc and I
can see radiators advertised that are for example 600mm in width. I presume
that that measurement is the total width of the item and not the width
between the two pipes that would feed it?

If anyone can give me a quick and simple overview of what I would need to do
fit the radiator Id be very very grateful.

Thanks in advance,

CM.

"Charles Middleton" wrote in message
...
All,

Im thinking about installing a towel radiator in my bathroom. However, my
central heating is Microbore and Im not sure what sort of fittings I need
to
connect the radiator to the central heating system.

Ive created a diagram to try and explain how it fits together....

http://www.btinternet.com/~remotec/towel.htm

The side view is meant to show how far the pipes come away from the wall.

The front view is reasonable self explanatory I hope. The current radiator
fits in between the 570mm span.

Will it be possible to install some sort of valves that go upwards instead
of inwards (towards the radiator) like the current ones do and then
perhaps
put a reducer on that to make it into the correct size (15mm??) to feed
the
radiator?

The microbore is embedded in the wall of the bathroom so I don't have much
flexibility to move it around. I've had a quick look on screwfix etc and I
can see radiators advertised that are for example 600mm in width. I
presume
that that measurement is the total width of the item and not the width
between the two pipes that would feed it?

If anyone can give me a quick and simple overview of what I would need to
do
fit the radiator Id be very very grateful.

Thanks in advance,

CM.


=====================
You can use 'inline valves' as recommended by Screwfix in the description
of the towel radiators. Also look for 'reducer' (in www.screwfix.co.uk)
which will point you to either 15 * 10 or 15 * 8 reducers. You will have to
check the size of your microbore pipe (either 8mm or 10mm) to decide which
reducer you need. Of course it would be more sensible to buy a couple of
reducers from your local plumbers' merchants rather than buy the pack from
Screwfix unless you need them for other jobs.

I'm pretty sure that 600mm is the size of the radiator but you'll always
need a bit of extra space for fitting the pipework and you should be able to
extend your existing pipework if necessary using a 'straight coupler' - also
from your local supplier.

Cic.

On Sun, 7 Mar 2004 20:45:18 +0000 (UTC), "Charles Middleton"
wrote:

All,

Im thinking about installing a towel radiator in my bathroom. However, my
central heating is Microbore and Im not sure what sort of fittings I need to
connect the radiator to the central heating system.

Ive created a diagram to try and explain how it fits together....

http://www.btinternet.com/~remotec/towel.htm

The side view is meant to show how far the pipes come away from the wall.

The front view is reasonable self explanatory I hope. The current radiator
fits in between the 570mm span.

Will it be possible to install some sort of valves that go upwards instead
of inwards (towards the radiator) like the current ones do and then perhaps
put a reducer on that to make it into the correct size (15mm??) to feed the
radiator?

The microbore is embedded in the wall of the bathroom so I don't have much
flexibility to move it around. I've had a quick look on screwfix etc and I
can see radiators advertised that are for example 600mm in width. I presume
that that measurement is the total width of the item and not the width
between the two pipes that would feed it?

If anyone can give me a quick and simple overview of what I would need to do
fit the radiator Id be very very grateful.

Thanks in advance,

CM.


Yes you can.

If the towel rail has tappings in the bottom, one way is to use
straight through radiator valves fitted vertically if the pipes are
as you've drawn them.

Otherwise you will have to do some adjustment of the pipework.

You will need to buy some soft copper microbore tube of appropriate
diameter (a plumber's merchant may let you have a short length) and
some fittings and possibly a pipe bender. You will need a small
microbore pipe cutter.

Pipe benders for microbore are a hand held tool available for a bout a
tenner. If you have enough space to make bends this way, the job
should be neater and the flow better.
However, you can get bends for microbore with a fairly gentle bend
which are not too bad. Given the tight space of the pipe against the
wall, you may have to use bends.

To connect on, cut the pipe on the horizontal portion if you need to
add a piece. Don't try to unbend the pipe - it will have hardened
with time and will likely simply crease.

For the valves, you may be able to get microbore ones. Otherwise
there are reducers which have a microbore female end and a 15mm male
tail. You attach the reducer to the pipe and then it will insert into
the valve as though it has 15mm tube. There are also reducing ring
sets which fit into the valve. However, unless you are really careful
and also assemble in the right order (not obvious) they are a PITA.




..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

snip

Thanks Andy/Cicero for your help on that one - looks like next weekends
project is a towel radiator then!

One more question - will there be any problems with connecting the radiator
to my system?

Are there any differences with using the Towel Rad. with microbore over 15mm
plumbing?

CM.

On Sun, 7 Mar 2004 22:23:18 +0000 (UTC), "Charles Middleton"
wrote:


snip

Thanks Andy/Cicero for your help on that one - looks like next weekends
project is a towel radiator then!

One more question - will there be any problems with connecting the radiator
to my system?

Are there any differences with using the Towel Rad. with microbore over 15mm
plumbing?

CM.


It should be OK unless you have a very high output one (although I
have never seen a towel radiator with high output).

As a rule of thumb, with 8mm tube over typical lengths in a house of
say 4-5m from the manifold or other connection to the main flow and
return, you can get about 1.5kW worth of water flow.
With 10mm, it's about 2.5kW.

So unless you have really long runs, you should be OK. You may have
to play with the lockshield valve.

Don't forget the inhibitor :-)




..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

Andy Hall wrote:

It should be OK unless you have a very high output one (although I
have never seen a towel radiator with high output).

As a rule of thumb, with 8mm tube over typical lengths in a house of
say 4-5m from the manifold or other connection to the main flow and
return, you can get about 1.5kW worth of water flow.
With 10mm, it's about 2.5kW.

So unless you have really long runs, you should be OK. You may have
to play with the lockshield valve.

Don't forget the inhibitor :-)



Sorry to appear stupid :-) but whats the lock shield valve and whats an
inhibitor? Feel free to refer to the relevant plumbing for dummies web site!

Also, Id be interested in installing an electic heater onto the rail. I
understand that you should have a mains outlet in a bathroom for good
reason. The room adjacent to my bathroom is my landing and this has a
plug socket on the wall - very close to where the rail will be in the
bathroom.

Is it acceptable for me to take a spur from that socket to a switch and
then wire from the switch to the rail? This would be on the upstairs
ring circuit which already has one spur on it running a double 13amp
plug socket.

Cheers,

CM.

Charles Middleton wrote:

snip

Also, Id be interested in installing an electic heater onto the rail. I
understand that you should have a mains outlet in a bathroom for good
reason.

That should have ready *should not* have a mains outlet in a bathroom .....

CM.

In article , Charles Middleton
writes
Also, Id be interested in installing an electic heater onto the rail. I
understand that you should have a mains outlet in a bathroom for good
reason.

In case the mother-in-law comes to visit?

--
Paul

On Tue, 9 Mar 2004 10:32:21 +0000 (UTC), Charles Middleton
wrote:

Andy Hall wrote:

It should be OK unless you have a very high output one (although I
have never seen a towel radiator with high output).

As a rule of thumb, with 8mm tube over typical lengths in a house of
say 4-5m from the manifold or other connection to the main flow and
return, you can get about 1.5kW worth of water flow.
With 10mm, it's about 2.5kW.

So unless you have really long runs, you should be OK. You may have
to play with the lockshield valve.

Don't forget the inhibitor :-)



Sorry to appear stupid :-) but whats the lock shield valve and whats an
inhibitor? Feel free to refer to the relevant plumbing for dummies web site!

The lockshield valve is the one which you don't use to turn the
radiator on and off or isn't the TRV. It has a cap removable by a
screw. You adjust it to regulate the flow and hence the temperature
drop and heat output of the radiators. The idea is to have the
temperature drop the same on all radiators so that they heat evenly
and give the design output. There is info. on doing this in the FAQ.
If you change a radiator's rating by altering type and size then the
flow may need to be adjusted. If it is working OK after fitting
then there may be no need to bother.

Corrosion Inhibitor is a liquid or gel system additive which
dramatically reduces or prevents system corrosion. It costs around
£15-20 for a good one like Fernox MB-1 or Superconcentrate and lasts
typically around three years. In comparison with the cost of new
radiators it is a cheap insurance policy.



Also, Id be interested in installing an electic heater onto the rail. I
understand that you should have a mains outlet in a bathroom for good
reason. The room adjacent to my bathroom is my landing and this has a
plug socket on the wall - very close to where the rail will be in the
bathroom.

Is it acceptable for me to take a spur from that socket to a switch and
then wire from the switch to the rail? This would be on the upstairs
ring circuit which already has one spur on it running a double 13amp
plug socket.

There are two aspects to this.

The first is the spur. This is OK, as long as the socket is not
already a spur and that you have a fused connection unit with 13A (or
less) fuse somewhere before the heater, but see note on position
below.)

The second is location of outlets and switches in a bathroom.
Nowadays this is all defined by distance zones relative to baths and
showers.

There is a reference to it in the Wiring Regulations. This is an
extract from one of the popular guides to them.

http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Book/7.2.2A.htm

The key is location, and whether you are in Zone 2 or 3 or beyond.

A towel rail is a fixed appliance for these purposes, so you need to
look at requirements for the outlet and switch.

If you are able, by dint of the rules to have a switch, then it should
be a switch with fuse, or the fused connection unit should precede it.


..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

On Tue, 9 Mar 2004 10:35:07 +0000 (UTC), Charles Middleton
wrote:



Charles Middleton wrote:

snip

Also, Id be interested in installing an electic heater onto the rail. I
understand that you should have a mains outlet in a bathroom for good
reason.

That should have ready *should not* have a mains outlet in a bathroom .....

CM.



See other post....




..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...

snip

The lockshield valve is the one which you don't use to turn the
radiator on and off or isn't the TRV.

snip

Ok I know what you mean now. Thanks.

snip

The first is the spur. This is OK, as long as the socket is not
already a spur and that you have a fused connection unit with 13A (or
less) fuse somewhere before the heater, but see note on position
below.)

The socket I am talking about is not on a spur and is part of the ring so
this is ok. As the socket is on the landing, I plan to take a spur from the
socket into a fused switch (one that has a indication light on it as well)
and this will also be mounted in the landing, above the original socket I
have spurred from. I then plan to run cable (can you advise on type?)
through the wall into the bathroom.

What I'm not clear on is what fitting is any will be needed to allow the
cable through the wall where it will then run into the radiator. Also these
are partitions not load bearing walls so I also presume I need some sort of
back box in which to mount the switch. Ill have a browse on TLC for that.

The second is location of outlets and switches in a bathroom.
Nowadays this is all defined by distance zones relative to baths and
showers.

I dont think this will be a problem as the switch will be outside the
bathroom.

Cheers,

CM.

On Tue, 9 Mar 2004 17:40:22 +0000 (UTC), "Charles Middleton"
wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
.. .

snip

The lockshield valve is the one which you don't use to turn the
radiator on and off or isn't the TRV.

snip

Ok I know what you mean now. Thanks.

snip

The first is the spur. This is OK, as long as the socket is not
already a spur and that you have a fused connection unit with 13A (or
less) fuse somewhere before the heater, but see note on position
below.)

The socket I am talking about is not on a spur and is part of the ring so
this is ok. As the socket is on the landing, I plan to take a spur from the
socket into a fused switch (one that has a indication light on it as well)
and this will also be mounted in the landing, above the original socket I
have spurred from. I then plan to run cable (can you advise on type?)
through the wall into the bathroom.

What I'm not clear on is what fitting is any will be needed to allow the
cable through the wall where it will then run into the radiator.

This would be a cable outlet, but you need to read through the rules -
it depends on location.

For the wiring to the rail, use a heat resistant PVC type.


Also these
are partitions not load bearing walls so I also presume I need some sort of
back box in which to mount the switch. Ill have a browse on TLC for that.

A dry lining box

http://tinyurl.com/ysbes



The second is location of outlets and switches in a bathroom.
Nowadays this is all defined by distance zones relative to baths and
showers.

I dont think this will be a problem as the switch will be outside the
bathroom.

Be careful. Read through all the rules.


Cheers,

CM.


..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl