The recent winds have seen the end of a boarded arris rail fence.
The posts are 100mm x 100mm, 3m apart and the fence about 1.6m high with
3 arris rails per section. It was probably 30 years old.
The posts rotted off at ground level about 15 years ago, and I hammered
post sockets into the ground and lifted the posts with the panels
attached into the sockets (which was one hell of a job - they were damn
heavy). I think it did well to last another 15 years, but now both the
posts and arris rails have rotted, and I think that's it.

I intend on mounting the replacement posts so they stop above the
ground. One possibility is to reuse the post sockets, but the one I've
uncovered so far under the undergrowth and collapsed fence is no longer
vertical, so they may have had it too.

Another thought is to use concrete repair spurs set in concrete, with
the posts bolted to these. There are some repaired posts in the garden
like this already - they've been there 20+ years and and rock solid.

Any thoughts on concreting these in? I can't believe one bag of
postcrete is enough for a 1.6m high fence on 3m spaced posts.
Is postcrete a compromise over using a real cement mix?
If so, what's a good volume per post, and what concrete mix?

Also, is there a different name for arris rails which instead of being
flush with the post faces are mounted on the surface so the boarding is
spaced slightly away from the post faces? Instead of triangle section,
they are almost rectangular but the top surface is cut with a slight
slope to prevent water pooling. (This is what I would like to use and
have seen elsewhere, but not what the fence used before.)

TIA
Andrew Gabriel

On Thursday, 14 March 2019 21:35:14 UTC, Andrew Gabriel wrote:

Any thoughts on concreting these in?

Andrew Gabriel, is that really you?

Over the countless years I've been on this group I don't think I recall ever seeing a question from you - you've always been the one helping others! :-)

(And, apologies, no advice from me to offer other than I've heard nothing but good things about Postcrete and that it generally is considered perfect for its job and not worth trying to improve upon, even when it is an issue of quantity)

On Thursday, 14 March 2019 21:35:14 UTC, Andrew Gabriel wrote:
The recent winds have seen the end of a boarded arris rail fence.
The posts are 100mm x 100mm, 3m apart and the fence about 1.6m high with
3 arris rails per section. It was probably 30 years old.
The posts rotted off at ground level about 15 years ago, and I hammered
post sockets into the ground and lifted the posts with the panels
attached into the sockets (which was one hell of a job - they were damn
heavy). I think it did well to last another 15 years, but now both the
posts and arris rails have rotted, and I think that's it.

I intend on mounting the replacement posts so they stop above the
ground. One possibility is to reuse the post sockets, but the one I've
uncovered so far under the undergrowth and collapsed fence is no longer
vertical, so they may have had it too.

Another thought is to use concrete repair spurs set in concrete, with
the posts bolted to these. There are some repaired posts in the garden
like this already - they've been there 20+ years and and rock solid.

Any thoughts on concreting these in? I can't believe one bag of
postcrete is enough for a 1.6m high fence on 3m spaced posts.
Is postcrete a compromise over using a real cement mix?
If so, what's a good volume per post, and what concrete mix?

Also, is there a different name for arris rails which instead of being
flush with the post faces are mounted on the surface so the boarding is
spaced slightly away from the post faces? Instead of triangle section,
they are almost rectangular but the top surface is cut with a slight
slope to prevent water pooling. (This is what I would like to use and
have seen elsewhere, but not what the fence used before.)

TIA
Andrew Gabriel

The problem is even worse now, wood preservatives are such crap these days.
The fencing spikes are the best solution to rot I find. Plus give the ends of the posts a good soak in creocote/similar.
In exposed situations, braces at 90deg. to the fence run are the best solution if you can fit them in.
OR
https://www.tekplas.co.uk/shop/pvc-f... AEgJXh_D_BwE

On Thursday, March 14, 2019 at 11:36:36 PM UTC, Mathew Newton wrote:
On Thursday, 14 March 2019 21:35:14 UTC, Andrew Gabriel wrote:

Any thoughts on concreting these in?

Andrew Gabriel, is that really you?

Over the countless years I've been on this group I don't think I recall ever seeing a question from you - you've always been the one helping others! :-)

(And, apologies, no advice from me to offer other than I've heard nothing but good things about Postcrete and that it generally is considered perfect for its job and not worth trying to improve upon, even when it is an issue of quantity)

+1 - I *always* read what Andrew Gabriel has to say on uk.d-i-y, even when I
have no interest in the actual subject ;-)

Sorry Andrew, I too have nothing substantive to pass on to you. I hope you get
some better replies that ours. But at least some of us heartily appreciate
your presence here...

J^n

Andrew Gabriel wrote:

Another thought is to use concrete repair spurs set in concrete, with
the posts bolted to these. There are some repaired posts in the garden
like this already - they've been there 20+ years and and rock solid.

Any thoughts on concreting these in? I can't believe one bag of
postcrete is enough for a 1.6m high fence on 3m spaced posts.
Is postcrete a compromise over using a real cement mix?
If so, what's a good volume per post, and what concrete mix?

I built a pergola last year, and used

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Concrete-Bolt-Grip-Fence-Supports/dp/B00QIUEJB2

I decided that the metal to be embedded was a little short, so
dug the hole big enough to stand them on a couple of old bricks,
embedding the whole lot in 1.5 bags of postcrete.

Being a structure, I suppose I am more concerned with the whole
lot lifting/ pulling out, rather than blowing over.

I also have some timber posts for a trellis that I postcreted in
about 6 years ago, and are still in good condition.

There seems to be a product data sheet and calculation tool he

https://tarmac-bluecircle.co.uk/product/postcrete-trade/

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK


Plant amazing Acers.

On 15/03/2019 08:15, jkn wrote:
On Thursday, March 14, 2019 at 11:36:36 PM UTC, Mathew Newton wrote:
On Thursday, 14 March 2019 21:35:14 UTC, Andrew Gabriel wrote:

Any thoughts on concreting these in?

Andrew Gabriel, is that really you?

Over the countless years I've been on this group I don't think I recall ever seeing a question from you - you've always been the one helping others! :-)

(And, apologies, no advice from me to offer other than I've heard nothing but good things about Postcrete and that it generally is considered perfect for its job and not worth trying to improve upon, even when it is an issue of quantity)

+1 - I *always* read what Andrew Gabriel has to say on uk.d-i-y, even when I
have no interest in the actual subject ;-)

Sorry Andrew, I too have nothing substantive to pass on to you. I hope you get
some better replies that ours. But at least some of us heartily appreciate
your presence here...

Wow guys, thanks!

--
Andrew Gabriel

On 15/03/2019 07:19, harry wrote:


The problem is even worse now, wood preservatives are such crap these days.
The fencing spikes are the best solution to rot I find. Plus give the ends of the posts a good soak in creocote/similar.
In exposed situations, braces at 90deg. to the fence run are the best solution if you can fit them in.
OR
https://www.tekplas.co.uk/shop/pvc-f... AEgJXh_D_BwE


I had reasonable success with delaying the rot in wooden posts by taking
the concrete used secure in the ground to above the soil level. IMO the
mistake most people make is to put in the postcrete/concrete and then
fill the rest of the hole with soil. The post always rots at a soil/air
boundary.


--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

alan_m wrote:
On 15/03/2019 07:19, harry wrote:


The problem is even worse now, wood preservatives are such crap these days.
The fencing spikes are the best solution to rot I find. Plus give the
ends of the posts a good soak in creocote/similar.
In exposed situations, braces at 90deg. to the fence run are the best
solution if you can fit them in.
OR
https://www.tekplas.co.uk/shop/pvc-f... AEgJXh_D_BwE



I had reasonable success with delaying the rot in wooden posts by taking
the concrete used secure in the ground to above the soil level. IMO the
mistake most people make is to put in the postcrete/concrete and then
fill the rest of the hole with soil. The post always rots at a soil/air
boundary.

In general I don't use concrete at all if possible, it tends to keep
water/dampness around the post where it enters the ground. I have a
lot (probably one to two hundred) wooden posts around our smallholding
and the longest lasting ones are simply banged into the soil. The
quality of the posts is important, I have some original ones (which
were good ones!) which are now well over 20 years old and are still
sound whereas other not so good (and not so old) ones have failed.

It's quite difficult to be sure which suppliers' posts are best, ones
where the supplier talks about UC4 (or HC4) treatment are probably
good. Good 4"/100mm by 6' long posts now cost around £5 or more, back
20 years ago I could shop around and find them at about £1 each!

.... and modern preservatives are not so bad, apparently failures
reported to a wood research centre that studies this sort of thing are
no more now than before the CCA (copper/arsenic) treatment was banned.
Just make sure that the posts you get *are* UC4/HC4 treated, they will
often be date stamped and even have a 15 year guarantee.

--
Chris Green
·

On Thu, 14 Mar 2019 21:35:11 +0000, Andrew Gabriel wrote:

Another thought is to use concrete repair spurs set in concrete, with
the posts bolted to these. There are some repaired posts in the garden
like this already - they've been there 20+ years and and rock solid.

Any thoughts on concreting these in? I can't believe one bag of
postcrete is enough for a 1.6m high fence on 3m spaced posts.

It's how far into the ground the post goes that stops it falling over
rather than a mass around it. Postcrete is just a quick and simple
way of filling the space around the post. Rammed earth will do just
as well. Best if the post is snug in the hole, so a post borer or
post hole digger thingy rather than an 8" spade. Rule of thumb is 1/3
total post in the ground so 6' out of the ground, 2' in - 8' post.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On 15/03/2019 11:47, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Thu, 14 Mar 2019 21:35:11 +0000, Andrew Gabriel wrote:

Another thought is to use concrete repair spurs set in concrete, with
the posts bolted to these. There are some repaired posts in the garden
like this already - they've been there 20+ years and and rock solid.

Any thoughts on concreting these in? I can't believe one bag of
postcrete is enough for a 1.6m high fence on 3m spaced posts.

It's how far into the ground the post goes that stops it falling over
rather than a mass around it. Postcrete is just a quick and simple
way of filling the space around the post. Rammed earth will do just
as well. Best if the post is snug in the hole, so a post borer or
post hole digger thingy rather than an 8" spade. Rule of thumb is 1/3
total post in the ground so 6' out of the ground, 2' in - 8' post.


Is it just me or...

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On Thursday, March 14, 2019 at 11:36:36 PM UTC, Mathew Newton wrote:
On Thursday, 14 March 2019 21:35:14 UTC, Andrew Gabriel wrote:

Any thoughts on concreting these in?

Andrew Gabriel, is that really you?

Over the countless years I've been on this group I don't think I recall ever seeing a question from you - you've always been the one helping others! :-)

(And, apologies, no advice from me to offer other than I've heard nothing but good things about Postcrete and that it generally is considered perfect for its job and not worth trying to improve upon, even when it is an issue of quantity)

Installing a rabbit proof fence about 30 years ago we used pressure treated timber for the posts but ran short for the last 3 posts where we used atandard round posts. Having given up on the vegetable gardening 20 years later I decided to remove the fence posts. Every pressure treated post came out as new and in fact I reused them but the atandard posts had all rotted at ground level. We get these posts from a manufacturer of telegraph poles so they are the genuine pukka article.
I dont believe in setting timber posts in holes back filled with cement The timber wille inevitable shrink away freom the concrete and allow water in.

On 15/03/2019 11:58, Robin wrote:
On 15/03/2019 11:47, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Thu, 14 Mar 2019 21:35:11 +0000, Andrew Gabriel wrote:

Another thought is to use concrete repair spurs set in concrete, with
the posts bolted to these. There are some repaired posts in the garden
like this already - they've been there 20+ years and and rock solid.

Any thoughts on concreting these in? I can't believe one bag of
postcrete is enough for a 1.6m high fence on 3m spaced posts.

It's how far into the ground the post goes that stops it falling over
rather than a mass around it. Postcrete is just a quick and simple
way of filling the space around the post. Rammed earth will do just
as well. Best if the post is snug in the hole, so a post borer or
post hole digger thingy rather than an 8" spade. Rule of thumb is 1/3
total post in the ground so 6' out of the ground, 2' in - 8' post.


Is it just me or...

No.

On 15/03/2019 13:11, newshound wrote:
On 15/03/2019 11:58, Robin wrote:
On 15/03/2019 11:47, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Thu, 14 Mar 2019 21:35:11 +0000, Andrew Gabriel wrote:

Another thought is to use concrete repair spurs set in concrete, with
the posts bolted to these. There are some repaired posts in the garden
like this already - they've been there 20+ years and and rock solid.

Any thoughts on concreting these in? I can't believe one bag of
postcrete is enough for a 1.6m high fence on 3m spaced posts.

It's how far into the ground the post goes that stops it falling over
rather than a mass around it. Postcrete is just a quick and simple
way of filling the space around the post. Rammed earth will do just
as well. Best if the post is snug in the hole, so a post borer or
post hole digger thingy rather than an 8" spade. Rule of thumb is 1/3
total post in the ground so 6' out of the ground, 2' in - 8' post.


Is it just me or...

No.

though it (a) is a reflection of the common advice to sink 1/4 to 1/3 of
the post - depending on soil, wind load etc. and (b) possibly to be
welcomed as part of a cunning programme of neurological stimulation for
declining Usenet users

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On Thu, 14 Mar 2019 21:35:11 +0000, Andrew Gabriel
wrote:



Another thought is to use concrete repair spurs set in concrete, with
the posts bolted to these. There are some repaired posts in the garden
like this already - they've been there 20+ years and and rock solid.

This is what I used to repair a 7ft high fence which catches the wind
as it comes around the building. The original wooden posts set in
concrete had rotted and broken (albeit after 20 years)

Any thoughts on concreting these in? I can't believe one bag of
postcrete is enough for a 1.6m high fence on 3m spaced posts.
Is postcrete a compromise over using a real cement mix?
If so, what's a good volume per post, and what concrete mix?

I used Postcrete on the advice of a builder. One bag did one post. It
has lasted for a few years so far and enabled me to continue to use
the old fenceposts (sound above the rotten base) which I attached to
the concrete posts using stainless steel rod rather than coach bolts.

On 15/03/2019 07:19, harry wrote:
The fencing spikes are the best solution to rot I find.

I've got some raised decking sitting on those. They are rusting away.
I'm not sure they'll last much longer than wood would have.

Andy

Vir Campestris Wrote in message:
On 15/03/2019 07:19, harry wrote:
The fencing spikes are the best solution to rot I find.

I've got some raised decking sitting on those. They are rusting away.
I'm not sure they'll last much longer than wood would have.

Andy


There are good & not so good versions though... I like the heavy
hot dip galvanised ones, the brown "powder coated honest" ones
are sh1te imho (as is everything that is "powder coated", it just
flakes off back to bare metal in no time)...
--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

On 15/03/2019 23:13, Jim K.. wrote:
Vir Campestris Wrote in message:
On 15/03/2019 07:19, harry wrote:
The fencing spikes are the best solution to rot I find.

I've got some raised decking sitting on those. They are rusting away.
I'm not sure they'll last much longer than wood would have.

Andy


There are good & not so good versions though... I like the heavy
hot dip galvanised ones, the brown "powder coated honest" ones
are sh1te imho (as is everything that is "powder coated", it just
flakes off back to bare metal in no time)...


Worse than that - on some powder coated items it appears that the
coating doesn't adhere well to the item and just forms a waterproof
outer layer. When the coating begins to crack water gets in, capillary
action draws it much further in from the surface defect and remains
trapped between the metal and the power coating.

Its often worse on objects that are designed to be hit such as these
fence spikes. The coating can be some what brittle and the act of
banging them in causes hairline cracks in the powder coating.

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

alan_m Wrote in message:
On 15/03/2019 23:13, Jim K.. wrote:
Vir Campestris Wrote in message:
On 15/03/2019 07:19, harry wrote:
The fencing spikes are the best solution to rot I find.

I've got some raised decking sitting on those. They are rusting away.
I'm not sure they'll last much longer than wood would have.

Andy


There are good & not so good versions though... I like the heavy
hot dip galvanised ones, the brown "powder coated honest" ones
are sh1te imho (as is everything that is "powder coated", it just
flakes off back to bare metal in no time)...


Worse than that - on some powder coated items it appears that the
coating doesn't adhere well to the item and just forms a waterproof
outer layer. When the coating begins to crack water gets in, capillary
action draws it much further in from the surface defect and remains
trapped between the metal and the power coating.

Its often worse on objects that are designed to be hit such as these
fence spikes. The coating can be some what brittle and the act of
banging them in causes hairline cracks in the powder coating.


Yes I should have said "flakes off to rusty metal" :-)
--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

On 16/03/2019 09:31, Jim K.. wrote:
alan_m Wrote in message:
On 15/03/2019 23:13, Jim K.. wrote:
Vir Campestris Wrote in message:
On 15/03/2019 07:19, harry wrote:
The fencing spikes are the best solution to rot I find.

I've got some raised decking sitting on those. They are rusting away.
I'm not sure they'll last much longer than wood would have.

Andy


There are good & not so good versions though... I like the heavy
hot dip galvanised ones, the brown "powder coated honest" ones
are sh1te imho (as is everything that is "powder coated", it just
flakes off back to bare metal in no time)...


Worse than that - on some powder coated items it appears that the
coating doesn't adhere well to the item and just forms a waterproof
outer layer. When the coating begins to crack water gets in, capillary
action draws it much further in from the surface defect and remains
trapped between the metal and the power coating.

Its often worse on objects that are designed to be hit such as these
fence spikes. The coating can be some what brittle and the act of
banging them in causes hairline cracks in the powder coating.


Yes I should have said "flakes off to rusty metal" :-)

That sounds scarily familiar. I didn't know there were any good ones.

Andy

On Thursday, 14 March 2019 21:35:14 UTC, Andrew Gabriel wrote:
The recent winds have seen the end of a boarded arris rail fence.
The posts are 100mm x 100mm, 3m apart and the fence about 1.6m high with
3 arris rails per section. It was probably 30 years old.
The posts rotted off at ground level about 15 years ago, and I hammered
post sockets into the ground and lifted the posts with the panels
attached into the sockets (which was one hell of a job - they were damn
heavy). I think it did well to last another 15 years, but now both the
posts and arris rails have rotted, and I think that's it.

I intend on mounting the replacement posts so they stop above the
ground. One possibility is to reuse the post sockets, but the one I've
uncovered so far under the undergrowth and collapsed fence is no longer
vertical, so they may have had it too.

Another thought is to use concrete repair spurs set in concrete, with
the posts bolted to these. There are some repaired posts in the garden
like this already - they've been there 20+ years and and rock solid.

Any thoughts on concreting these in? I can't believe one bag of
postcrete is enough for a 1.6m high fence on 3m spaced posts.
Is postcrete a compromise over using a real cement mix?
If so, what's a good volume per post, and what concrete mix?

Also, is there a different name for arris rails which instead of being
flush with the post faces are mounted on the surface so the boarding is
spaced slightly away from the post faces? Instead of triangle section,
they are almost rectangular but the top surface is cut with a slight
slope to prevent water pooling. (This is what I would like to use and
have seen elsewhere, but not what the fence used before.)

TIA
Andrew Gabriel

In our last house, which only had a short fence, one post lasted without obvious damage while the rest all suffered right up to total failure. The one that lasted, I had made quite a large hole. Put fairly coarse gravel the bottom and made it dead flat and tamped down. Stood the post on the gravel and then filled the sides with concrete (might have been postcrete - far too long ago to remember). That meant any water could, eventually, drain away.

In our current house, the builder has done what looks like a fine job with every post wrapped in something that looks a bit like roofing felt to about four inches above ground. Only about three years old so not really tested.