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My wife has arranged a speaker for her WI Group at the Church Hall.

The speaker has asked for a PAT Tested Extension Lead for her projector.

I can't see why - other than to avoid any responsibility if a faulty lead
was provided. Surely her equipment could not be damaged.

A lead is provided by the Church Hall - we, as users, have no idea if it is
PAT Tested.

Not sure what to get my wife to say to the speaker.

I have not ruled out that the lead may be PAT tested - not easy to check
right now.

....but what responsibility is it of the speaker?

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On 10/03/2019 12:42, DerbyBorn wrote:
My wife has arranged a speaker for her WI Group at the Church Hall.

The speaker has asked for a PAT Tested Extension Lead for her projector.

I can't see why - other than to avoid any responsibility if a faulty lead
was provided. Surely her equipment could not be damaged.

A lead is provided by the Church Hall - we, as users, have no idea if it is
PAT Tested.

Not sure what to get my wife to say to the speaker.

I have not ruled out that the lead may be PAT tested - not easy to check
right now.

...but what responsibility is it of the speaker?


Just check the cable and then tell her it's been PAT tested. Print a
label off the internet (there's loads) and stick it on the thing if you
can be bothered.

Bill
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On Sun, 10 Mar 2019 12:58:51 +0000, Bill Wright
wrote:

On 10/03/2019 12:42, DerbyBorn wrote:
My wife has arranged a speaker for her WI Group at the Church Hall.

The speaker has asked for a PAT Tested Extension Lead for her projector.

I can't see why - other than to avoid any responsibility if a faulty lead
was provided. Surely her equipment could not be damaged.

A lead is provided by the Church Hall - we, as users, have no idea if it is
PAT Tested.

Not sure what to get my wife to say to the speaker.

I have not ruled out that the lead may be PAT tested - not easy to check
right now.

...but what responsibility is it of the speaker?


Just check the cable and then tell her it's been PAT tested. Print a
label off the internet (there's loads) and stick it on the thing if you
can be bothered.

Bill


I thought all the idiots on the NG were taken up by Brexit.

At one time people "on the road" were at particular risk from cables
being bundled into vans and the like after every "gig". Electric
guitar players were very prone to exiting the world of the living,
both through their own equipment and items left for the users of the
venue with no real responsibility for maintenance being taken.

If you need to ask the question as to responsibility for testing of
the cable, then you really are in no position to do your own testing
and pull labels off the internet.

Your speakers equipment couldn't in any forseeable way be damaged
whatever the condition of the connecting cable.

An opportunity for deep thought methinks, and while you're at it, look
up "duty of care" on your search engine.

Your speaker seems to have her wits about her, what's the subject it
may be quite a rewarding lecture.


AB
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On 10/03/2019 12:42, DerbyBorn wrote:
My wife has arranged a speaker for her WI Group at the Church Hall.

The speaker has asked for a PAT Tested Extension Lead for her projector.
I can't see why - other than to avoid any responsibility if a faulty lead
was provided. Surely her equipment could not be damaged.


Its not a risk to equipment particularly - although I suppose a lead
with damaged socket connections which could cause arcing, may blow a
projector lamp should it happen at the wrong time. (note that many
projector lamps can cost hundreds to replace)

A lead is provided by the Church Hall - we, as users, have no idea if it is
PAT Tested.


If you have no idea, then its likely its not. Its not something that
happens by accident.

Not sure what to get my wife to say to the speaker.


Probably cheaper to offer to buy a new one for her to use. Tell her she
can keep it as well for a contribution of funds!

Alternatively if there is a local charity shop that sells electrical
stuff, they probably have a tame tester you may be able to call on.

I have not ruled out that the lead may be PAT tested - not easy to check
right now.

...but what responsibility is it of the speaker?


Odd choice of words...?

Is the responsibility of the Hall "management" to ensure any equipment
provided is safe to use.

The speaker is just being (sensibly) cautious, since she is probably
aware that in small organisations like this, dodgy kit can knock about
for years without anyone actually inspecting it or, more importantly,
scrapping / repairing / taking out of service anything that looks
questionable.


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On 10/03/2019 12:42, DerbyBorn wrote:
My wife has arranged a speaker for her WI Group at the Church Hall.

The speaker has asked for a PAT Tested Extension Lead for her projector.

I can't see why - other than to avoid any responsibility if a faulty lead
was provided. Surely her equipment could not be damaged.

A lead is provided by the Church Hall - we, as users, have no idea if it is
PAT Tested.

Not sure what to get my wife to say to the speaker.

I have not ruled out that the lead may be PAT tested - not easy to check
right now.

....but what responsibility is it of the speaker?


Surely one bought from a reputable supplier can be regarded as safe.

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In article 6,
DerbyBorn wrote:
The speaker has asked for a PAT Tested Extension Lead for her projector.


I can't see why - other than to avoid any responsibility if a faulty
lead was provided. Surely her equipment could not be damaged.


An extension lead with line and earth reversed?

Might not damage the equipment, but could kill her.

If she is bringing her own projector why not her own extension lead too?
With an RCD plug fitted.

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On Sun, 10 Mar 2019 15:03:22 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article 6,
DerbyBorn wrote:
The speaker has asked for a PAT Tested Extension Lead for her projector.


I can't see why - other than to avoid any responsibility if a faulty
lead was provided. Surely her equipment could not be damaged.


An extension lead with line and earth reversed?

Might not damage the equipment, but could kill her.


Yes, well?


That was already fairly clear.


If she is bringing her own projector why not her own extension lead too?
With an RCD plug fitted.


It would be tempting but from the perspective of a person that uses
extentions on other peoples sites to power tools, laptops etc, it is
far better to get the site to organise the thing. Trying to get the go
ahead to use steps to run the cable off the floor is too unsafe for a
lot of the Hi Vis spotters in industry.

An extension is a pretty dangerous item, especially so if the room is
in semi darkness to display a projected image.

If the client supplies the cable and runs it out in what they say is a
safe manner, the speaker will have little chance of being sued when
someone goes flying over it.

Having said that, if there is an obvious problem with the cable route
and the speaker is aware, they too have a duty of care.

AB



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On Sunday, 10 March 2019 12:42:33 UTC, DerbyBorn wrote:
My wife has arranged a speaker for her WI Group at the Church Hall.
The speaker has asked for a PAT Tested Extension Lead for her projector.


She'll be bringing the PAT Testing certificate for the projector with her (with the test person's competency certificate and the calibration certificate for the test machine used)?

Owain

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On 10/03/2019 13:13, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq wrote:

Just check the cable and then tell her it's been PAT tested. Print a
label off the internet (there's loads) and stick it on the thing if you
can be bothered.

Bill


I thought all the idiots on the NG were taken up by Brexit.


The PAT test for extension leads comprises:
Test insulation resistance and polarity.
Visual check.

Anyone could do that, except possibly a remainer idiot.

Bill


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On Sunday, 10 March 2019 20:22:30 UTC, Bill Wright wrote:
The PAT test for extension leads comprises:
Test insulation resistance and polarity.
Visual check.
Anyone could do that, except possibly a remainer idiot.


My mother couldn't.

But she wouldn't have been able to use a projector, anyway.

Owain

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On Sun, 10 Mar 2019 20:22:30 +0000, Bill Wright wrote:

The PAT test for extension leads comprises:
Test insulation resistance and polarity.
Visual check.


And check the earth is continuous from the plug to each/every outlet.
And check the fuse is correct
And fill in the Log Book of equipment. Or give them a written note if it
is only the one piece of equipment that you need to inspect.
You can also stick on a Pass label if you want, though it isnt mandatory.
But, if you fit a label, you do need the 'new' labels (new being 4 years
old now) that do not have a 'next test date', as the Tester does not
recommend the next test date now, and it should not be printed on any
labels.

Anyone could do that,...


Well, possibly, but it isnt as easy as you think if done properly, as you
have just proven.

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"Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq"
wrote in message
...
On Sun, 10 Mar 2019 12:58:51 +0000, Bill Wright
wrote:

On 10/03/2019 12:42, DerbyBorn wrote:
My wife has arranged a speaker for her WI Group at the Church Hall.

The speaker has asked for a PAT Tested Extension Lead for her projector.

I can't see why - other than to avoid any responsibility if a faulty
lead
was provided. Surely her equipment could not be damaged.

A lead is provided by the Church Hall - we, as users, have no idea if it
is
PAT Tested.

Not sure what to get my wife to say to the speaker.

I have not ruled out that the lead may be PAT tested - not easy to check
right now.

...but what responsibility is it of the speaker?


Just check the cable and then tell her it's been PAT tested. Print a
label off the internet (there's loads) and stick it on the thing if you
can be bothered.

Bill


I thought all the idiots on the NG were taken up by Brexit.

At one time people "on the road" were at particular risk from cables
being bundled into vans and the like after every "gig". Electric
guitar players were very prone to exiting the world of the living,
both through their own equipment and items left for the users of the
venue with no real responsibility for maintenance being taken.


Irrelevant to what can happen with an extension cord for
a PROJECTOR that has been checked for any problem.

If you need to ask the question as to responsibility for testing of
the cable, then you really are in no position to do your own testing
and pull labels off the internet.

Your speakers equipment couldn't in any forseeable way be damaged
whatever the condition of the connecting cable.

An opportunity for deep thought methinks, and while you're at it, look
up "duty of care" on your search engine.

Your speaker seems to have her wits about her, what's the subject it
may be quite a rewarding lecture.


AB


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On 10/03/2019 13:28, John Rumm wrote:
On 10/03/2019 12:42, DerbyBorn wrote:
My wife has arranged a speaker for her WI Group at the Church Hall.

The speaker has asked for a PAT Tested Extension Lead for her projector.
I can't see why - other than to avoid any responsibility if a faulty lead
was provided. Surely her equipment could not be damaged.


Its not a risk to equipment particularly - although I suppose a lead
with damaged socket connections which could cause arcing, may blow a
projector lamp should it happen at the wrong time. (note that many
projector lamps can cost hundreds to replace)

A lead is provided by the Church Hall - we, as users, have no idea if
it is
PAT Tested.


If you have no idea, then its likely its not. Its not something that
happens by accident.


Well they could always ask!


Not sure what to get my wife to say to the speaker.


Probably cheaper to offer to buy a new one for her to use. Tell her she
can keep it as well for a contribution of funds!

Alternatively if there is a local charity shop that sells electrical
stuff, they probably have a tame tester you may be able to call on.


Both excellent ideas. I think I am right in thinking that PAT testing
isn't legally required on kit less than a year old? (So keep the receipt).


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"Max Demian" wrote in message
o.uk...
On 10/03/2019 12:42, DerbyBorn wrote:
My wife has arranged a speaker for her WI Group at the Church Hall.

The speaker has asked for a PAT Tested Extension Lead for her projector.

I can't see why - other than to avoid any responsibility if a faulty lead
was provided. Surely her equipment could not be damaged.

A lead is provided by the Church Hall - we, as users, have no idea if it
is
PAT Tested.

Not sure what to get my wife to say to the speaker.

I have not ruled out that the lead may be PAT tested - not easy to check
right now.

....but what responsibility is it of the speaker?


Surely one bought from a reputable supplier can be regarded as safe.


And trivial to check that it actually is safe too.

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On 10/03/2019 15:01, Max Demian wrote:
On 10/03/2019 12:42, DerbyBorn wrote:
My wife has arranged a speaker for her WI Group at the Church Hall.

The speaker has asked for a PAT Tested Extension Lead for her projector.

I can't see why - other than to avoid any responsibility if a faulty lead
was provided. Surely her equipment could not be damaged.

A lead is provided by the Church Hall - we, as users, have no idea if
it is
PAT Tested.

Not sure what to get my wife to say to the speaker.

I have not ruled out that the lead may be PAT tested - not easy to check
right now.

....but what responsibility is it of the speaker?


Surely one bought from a reputable supplier can be regarded as safe.


Some years ago, a well known and reputable UK manufacturer produced a
whole load of extensions that were incorrectly wired and all had to be
recalled.

Whether any were actually sold to customers I don't know.

SteveW
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On Sun, 10 Mar 2019 20:22:30 +0000, Bill Wright
wrote:

On 10/03/2019 13:13, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq wrote:

Just check the cable and then tell her it's been PAT tested. Print a
label off the internet (there's loads) and stick it on the thing if you
can be bothered.

Bill


I thought all the idiots on the NG were taken up by Brexit.


The PAT test for extension leads comprises:
Test insulation resistance and polarity.
Visual check.

Anyone could do that, except possibly a remainer idiot.

Bill


"Just check the cable and then tell her it's been PAT tested. Print a
label off the internet (there's loads) and stick it on the thing if
you
can be bothered."

The initial question should have made it abundantly clear the bloke
was clueless.

Anyone cannot do it, there is a C&G course to train people to do it
and they still get it wrong.

Your "advice" is just typical of the gormless idiots infesting this NG
that are clueless about a subject, google a few words and then try to
impress the poor recipient with their astounding knowledge.

"If you can be bothered" and safety are mutually exclusive terms.

AB

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Bill Wright wrote:
On 10/03/2019 13:13, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq wrote:

Just check the cable and then tell her it's been PAT tested. Print a
label off the internet (there's loads) and stick it on the thing if you
can be bothered.

Bill


I thought all the idiots on the NG were taken up by Brexit.


The PAT test for extension leads comprises:
Test insulation resistance and polarity.
Visual check.

Anyone could do that, except possibly a remainer idiot.

Did you really have to bring that into the issue? It may be obvous to
say it but - wanting to leave the EU or not doesn't have anything to
do with PAT. It makes me wonder why I should listen to anything you
say (well I don't much).

--
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On Sunday, 10 March 2019 22:10:21 UTC, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq wrote:
On Sun, 10 Mar 2019 20:22:30 +0000, Bill Wright
wrote:
On 10/03/2019 13:13, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq wrote:


The PAT test for extension leads comprises:
Test insulation resistance and polarity.
Visual check.

Anyone could do that, except possibly a remainer idiot.

Bill


That's far from true. The process may be simple but there's lots of little complexities that come into it in practice, and the tester needs to know how to deal with those.
eg not all cordgrips are acceptable. The average person has no idea what forms exist or how to assess which do the job - or even what the job is they need to do.
eg not all flexes are acceptable. Some are single insulated, 110v rated, clearly too thin, etc etc.
Plug type matters, most folk have no idea about that.
I've found sockets that function but don't grip the plug pins. A fire waiting to happen, they shouldn't pass.


NT

"Just check the cable and then tell her it's been PAT tested. Print a
label off the internet (there's loads) and stick it on the thing if
you
can be bothered."

The initial question should have made it abundantly clear the bloke
was clueless.

Anyone cannot do it, there is a C&G course to train people to do it
and they still get it wrong.

Your "advice" is just typical of the gormless idiots infesting this NG
that are clueless about a subject, google a few words and then try to
impress the poor recipient with their astounding knowledge.

"If you can be bothered" and safety are mutually exclusive terms.

AB

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On Sun, 10 Mar 2019 12:42:30 GMT, DerbyBorn
wrote:

My wife has arranged a speaker for her WI Group at the Church Hall.

The speaker has asked for a PAT Tested Extension Lead for her projector.

I can't see why - other than to avoid any responsibility if a faulty lead
was provided. Surely her equipment could not be damaged.

A lead is provided by the Church Hall - we, as users, have no idea if it is
PAT Tested.

Not sure what to get my wife to say to the speaker.

I have not ruled out that the lead may be PAT tested - not easy to check
right now.

...but what responsibility is it of the speaker?


Doesn't the WI group have their own projector that could be used? If
not, the speaker should provide her own extension lead if she's
worried.
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Default Lonely Psychopathic Senile Ozzie Troll Alert!

On Mon, 11 Mar 2019 08:34:29 +1100, cantankerous trolling senile geezer Rot
Speed blabbered, again:


Irrelevant to what can happen with an extension cord for
a PROJECTOR that has been checked for any problem.


Did you EVER have anything to do with projectors, all-knowing senile
asshole? Or the EU, or the UK, or the US, or anyone or anything for that
matter, you all-knowing, psychopathic, senile asshole? LOL

--
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"You can **** off as you know less than pig **** you sad
little ignorant ****."
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On Mon, 11 Mar 2019 08:57:23 +1100, cantankerous trolling senile geezer Rot
Speed blabbered, again:



And trivial to check that it actually is safe too.


What could be more trivial than your senile trolling on these groups, you
subnormal trolling senile idiot?

--
Richard addressing Rot Speed:
"**** you're thick/pathetic excuse for a troll."
MID:


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On 10/03/2019 22:13, Chris Green wrote:
Bill Wright wrote:
On 10/03/2019 13:13, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq wrote:

Just check the cable and then tell her it's been PAT tested. Print a
label off the internet (there's loads) and stick it on the thing if you
can be bothered.

Bill

I thought all the idiots on the NG were taken up by Brexit.


The PAT test for extension leads comprises:
Test insulation resistance and polarity.
Visual check.

Anyone could do that, except possibly a remainer idiot.

Did you really have to bring that into the issue? It may be obvous to
say it but - wanting to leave the EU or not doesn't have anything to
do with PAT. It makes me wonder why I should listen to anything you
say (well I don't much).


As with anyone in the group, with time you get to learn which posters
have useful knowledge on which topics.

However I suspect in this case most are having a sense of humour failure!


--
Cheers,

John.

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On 11/03/2019 00:26, John Rumm wrote:

Anyone could do that, except possibly a remainer idiot.

Did you really have to bring that into the issue?


It was satire. He said "I thought all the idiots on the NG were taken up
by Brexit."

Bill
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On 10/03/2019 22:34, Dave W wrote:

Doesn't the WI group have their own projector that could be used? If
not, the speaker should provide her own extension lead if she's
worried.


All this just to look at a few pictures of flower arranging or something
equally pointless.

Bill


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On Mon, 11 Mar 2019 03:38:31 +0000, Bill Wright
wrote:

On 10/03/2019 22:34, Dave W wrote:

Doesn't the WI group have their own projector that could be used? If
not, the speaker should provide her own extension lead if she's
worried.


All this just to look at a few pictures of flower arranging or something
equally pointless.

Bill


You are totally missing the point.

People have a right to be safe whatever the activity.

Maybe if she can get someone "to be bothered" to inspect the cables
and equipment in the hall it may be a life changer for a potential
victim or two.

"Ownerless" cables are very vulnerable to abuse, you wouldn't know
that though would you? It takes experience and a vision of the
potential problems to arrive at a decision as to the best approach,
not just a simplistic I can google PAT response.

If you do post advice it is best to know what the hell you are talking
about.

AB
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"Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq"
wrote in message
news
On Mon, 11 Mar 2019 03:38:31 +0000, Bill Wright
wrote:

On 10/03/2019 22:34, Dave W wrote:

Doesn't the WI group have their own projector that could be used? If
not, the speaker should provide her own extension lead if she's
worried.


All this just to look at a few pictures of flower arranging or something
equally pointless.

Bill


You are totally missing the point.


You are.

People have a right to be safe whatever the activity.


Yes, but someone like Bill is quite capable of checking
if the extension cord is safe, no need for a PAT test so
if the silly cow is that ignorant, fine to lie that it is.

Maybe if she can get someone "to be bothered" to
inspect the cables and equipment in the hall it may
be a life changer for a potential victim or two.


Bill is quite capable of checking the hall's extension cord.

"Ownerless" cables are very vulnerable to abuse,


But trivial to check if they are safe.

you wouldn't know that though would you?


He's quite capable of checking the cord.

It takes experience and a vision of the potential problems
to arrive at a decision as to the best approach,


Not with a ****ing extension cord.

not just a simplistic I can google PAT response.


If you do post advice it is best to know what the hell you are talking
about.


Thanks for that completely superfluous proof of why you keep getting the
bums rush.

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On Sun, 10 Mar 2019 21:43:29 +0000, newshound wrote:

Both excellent ideas. I think I am right in thinking that PAT testing
isn't legally required on kit less than a year old? (So keep the
receipt).


New kit is accepted as being "safe" for a period of time but I don't
think there is any fixed PAT interval. Most of PATing is
visual/common sense, the "plug in a box and press a button:
[pass/fail]" just catches hidden miss-wiring (moulded plugs...) etc.

The interval really demends on the kit and it's use. I'd say 12
months is too long for an extension lead used by all a sundry several
times a day. Generally people haven't a clue how to
coil/uncoil/layout/plug/unplug things and an extension used in such
an enviroment will take a hammering. Mnay people are also happy to
use obviously damaged cables/plugs and/or not report such things to
the owner.

A bit of kit carefully and properly installed into a rack and not
disturbed again, 5 years would be acceptable.

In this case I'd say the guest speaker is trying to avoid having to
use a lead that may be "unsafe". So why doen't they bring their own,
known "safe" lead? Presumably her projector etc is PATed (if not why
not if it's being used in a "public" place?), so why not have their
extension checked when they have that checked?

--
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Dave.





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In article ,
Alan wrote:
On Sun, 10 Mar 2019 20:22:30 +0000, Bill Wright wrote:


The PAT test for extension leads comprises:
Test insulation resistance and polarity.
Visual check.


And check the earth is continuous from the plug to each/every outlet.
And check the fuse is correct
And fill in the Log Book of equipment. Or give them a written note if it
is only the one piece of equipment that you need to inspect.
You can also stick on a Pass label if you want, though it isnt mandatory.
But, if you fit a label, you do need the 'new' labels (new being 4 years
old now) that do not have a 'next test date', as the Tester does not
recommend the next test date now, and it should not be printed on any
labels.


Indeed,so. It's up to the owner to do a risk assessment to determine the
frequency of testing and always has been.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle
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On Sun, 10 Mar 2019 21:36:58 +0000 (GMT), charles wrote:

If the lead belongs to the Church Hall, then it is the responsibility of
the Hall management to provide safe equipment for hirers to use.


Yep, but remember a PAT is like and MOT only valid when it's done. If
later the day of the PAT someone yanked the lead and pulled the
sleeve out of the grip say, it's be a PAT fail and shouldn't be used
regardless of any PAT sticker.

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Dave.



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In article ,
newshound wrote:
On 10/03/2019 13:28, John Rumm wrote:
On 10/03/2019 12:42, DerbyBorn wrote:
My wife has arranged a speaker for her WI Group at the Church Hall.

The speaker has asked for a PAT Tested Extension Lead for her projector.
I can't see why - other than to avoid any responsibility if a faulty lead
was provided. Surely her equipment could not be damaged.


Its not a risk to equipment particularly - although I suppose a lead
with damaged socket connections which could cause arcing, may blow a
projector lamp should it happen at the wrong time. (note that many
projector lamps can cost hundreds to replace)

A lead is provided by the Church Hall - we, as users, have no idea if
it is
PAT Tested.


If you have no idea, then its likely its not. Its not something that
happens by accident.


Well they could always ask!



Not sure what to get my wife to say to the speaker.


Probably cheaper to offer to buy a new one for her to use. Tell her she
can keep it as well for a contribution of funds!

Alternatively if there is a local charity shop that sells electrical
stuff, they probably have a tame tester you may be able to call on.


Both excellent ideas. I think I am right in thinking that PAT testing
isn't legally required on kit less than a year old? (So keep the receipt).


I bought some brand new equipent, but I didn't like the look of one item,
It failed on the earth continuity test.

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from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle
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On Monday, 11 March 2019 09:17:43 UTC, Dave Liquorice wrote:
Yep, but remember a PAT is like and MOT only valid when it's done. If
later the day of the PAT someone yanked the lead and pulled the
sleeve out of the grip say, it's be a PAT fail and shouldn't be used
regardless of any PAT sticker.


It shouldn't be, but try telling the local council that.

(and the sleeve was pulled out of the heater end of the flex,which could be said to be even more dangerous as a pull on the plug end has a chance of disconnecting without leaving exposed live wires).

Owain

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Resolved - one of the committee has a husband who has access to a recently
PAT Tested and stickered lead for the event.

I think it is all about just keeping people happy.

I suppose the presenter was trying to avoid any blame if a faulty lead had
been provided due to her requiring one for the presentation. Avoiding
liability by being seen to be taking every step to ensure safety.



Seemed an overkill.
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