UK diy (uk.d-i-y) For the discussion of all topics related to diy (do-it-yourself) in the UK. All levels of experience and proficency are welcome to join in to ask questions or offer solutions.

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Default Lonely Psychopathic Senile Ozzie Troll Alert!

On Mon, 11 Mar 2019 16:32:54 +1100, cantankerous trolling senile geezer Rot
Speed blabbered, again:

FLUSH more of the stinking senile troll's stinking troll****

....and much better air in here again.

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On Monday, 11 March 2019 03:37:03 UTC, Bill Wright wrote:
On 10/03/2019 22:29, tabbypurr wrote:

That's far from true. The process may be simple but there's lots of little complexities that come into it in practice, and the tester needs to know how to deal with those.


You're just trying to make out it's complicated in order to preserve the
status of the 'expert', same as lawyers try to make house conveyancing
sound difficult.

Bill


bzzt.


NT
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On Monday, 11 March 2019 04:22:01 UTC, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq wrote:

People have a right to be safe whatever the activity.


maybe in another 200 years that'll actually be possible. IRL there are hazards in pretty much everything we interact with.


NT
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On 11/03/2019 04:21, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq wrote:

All this just to look at a few pictures of flower arranging or something
equally pointless.

Bill


You are totally missing the point.

People have a right to be safe whatever the activity.


Of course. I wasn't disputing that; merely making a general philosophic
remark about the futility of much human activity!

Maybe if she can get someone "to be bothered" to inspect the cables
and equipment in the hall it may be a life changer for a potential
victim or two.


Yes, but it would be much safer if she didn't drive to the hall at all.
In fact we should all stay in bed all the time.

"Ownerless" cables are very vulnerable to abuse, you wouldn't know
that though would you?


Why wouldn't I be party to something so obvious? Or did you resort to
cheap sarcasm?

It takes experience and a vision of the
potential problems to arrive at a decision as to the best approach,
not just a simplistic I can google PAT response.


Many of the people in this group will have enough experience and
knowledge to test a mains extension lead. That includes me, but the way
you're carrying on about it makes me wonder if your own incompetence in
this area has led to you causing deaths and/or fires? You certainly do
seem to be very twitchy about it.

If you do post advice it is best to know what the hell you are talking
about.


Yes that's true. Luckily I am. I live in the real world of proportionate
risk assessment. I've been using and testing mains leads for donkey's
years. But remember the golden rule:

Black to red
Red to Black
Blue us to bits

Bill



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On 11/03/2019 08:37, Brian Gaff wrote:
He is probably looking out for himself. Surely if there is a system in place
for this at the hall then it will be obvious as it will have stickers on it.


I think there's too much reliance placed on stickers. The sticker is
only a sticker. From what I've seen of PAT testing it's largely a box
ticking exercise. I've seen some utterly silly decisions by PAT testers.
I'd rather rely on my own judgement and experience than on that of some
half-trained kid.

Bill
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On Monday, 11 March 2019 13:28:47 UTC, Bill Wright wrote:
On 11/03/2019 11:53, tabbypurr wrote:

You're just trying to make out it's complicated in order to preserve the
status of the 'expert', same as lawyers try to make house conveyancing
sound difficult.

Bill


bzzt.


Is that the sound of someone getting electrocuted because of a dodgy
extension lead?

Bill


no, it's a famous gameshow sound that happens when a contentant gives a wrong answer.

Seems I'm running late today.


NT
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On 11/03/2019 13:52, Bill Wright wrote:
On 11/03/2019 08:37, Brian Gaff wrote:
He is probably looking out for himself. Surely if there is a system in
place
for this at the hall then it will be obvious as it will have stickers
on it.


I think there's too much reliance placed on stickers. The sticker is
only a sticker. From what I've seen of PAT testing it's largely a box
ticking exercise. I've seen some utterly silly decisions by PAT testers.
I'd rather rely on my own judgement and experience than on that of some
half-trained kid.


Sadly that does seem to be a common problem with many "trained" testers.
Over reliance on the "I connect to tester, push button, it says ok, must
be good" school of thought. Whereas in the case of something like an
extension lead the proper visual inspection is worth as much or more
than the electrical tests.



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
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|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/
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On 11/03/2019 09:52, DerbyBorn wrote:



Resolved - one of the committee has a husband who has access to a recently
PAT Tested and stickered lead for the event.

I think it is all about just keeping people happy.

I suppose the presenter was trying to avoid any blame if a faulty lead had
been provided due to her requiring one for the presentation. Avoiding
liability by being seen to be taking every step to ensure safety.



Seemed an overkill.


Tis the modern world and "progress" for you... personal responsibility
and common sense are no longer politically correct - partly driven by
the increasing use of litigation as a first step in problem resolution.

If I were borrowing someone's extension lead, I would give it some
inspection before using it to ensure my own safety. If I were lending a
bit of kit out that belonged to some collective organisation, I would
inspect it as well to ensure their safety.


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Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
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| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
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wrote in message
...
On Monday, 11 March 2019 03:37:03 UTC, Bill Wright wrote:
On 10/03/2019 22:29, tabbypurr wrote:

That's far from true. The process may be simple but there's lots of
little complexities that come into it in practice, and the tester needs
to know how to deal with those.


You're just trying to make out it's complicated in order to preserve the
status of the 'expert', same as lawyers try to make house conveyancing
sound difficult.

Bill


bzzt.


You're not sposed to use your vibrator in here, you animal.

There are clearly children reading here.

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wrote in message
...
On Monday, 11 March 2019 04:22:01 UTC, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq
wrote:

People have a right to be safe whatever the activity.


maybe in another 200 years that'll actually be possible. IRL there are
hazards in pretty much everything we interact with.


There still will be in 200 years unless we all end up
being just a brain in a jar fed by hydroponics etc
and even then the pipe will still burst at times.

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"Bill Wright" wrote in message
...
On 11/03/2019 04:21, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq wrote:

All this just to look at a few pictures of flower arranging or something
equally pointless.

Bill


You are totally missing the point.

People have a right to be safe whatever the activity.


Of course. I wasn't disputing that; merely making a general philosophic
remark about the futility of much human activity!

Maybe if she can get someone "to be bothered" to inspect the cables
and equipment in the hall it may be a life changer for a potential
victim or two.


Yes, but it would be much safer if she didn't drive to the hall at all. In
fact we should all stay in bed all the time.


Much safer to be under the bed, then if the roof
caves in you have more protection from that and
you can't fall out of bed either.

"Ownerless" cables are very vulnerable to abuse, you wouldn't know
that though would you?


Why wouldn't I be party to something so obvious? Or did you resort to
cheap sarcasm?

It takes experience and a vision of the
potential problems to arrive at a decision as to the best approach,
not just a simplistic I can google PAT response.


Many of the people in this group will have enough experience and knowledge
to test a mains extension lead. That includes me, but the way you're
carrying on about it makes me wonder if your own incompetence in this area
has led to you causing deaths and/or fires?


You know what they say about the Irish. Its true.

You certainly do seem to be very twitchy about it.


Not surprising with all those Irish around him.

If you do post advice it is best to know what the hell you are talking
about.


Yes that's true. Luckily I am. I live in the real world of proportionate
risk assessment. I've been using and testing mains leads for donkey's
years. But remember the golden rule:

Black to red
Red to Black
Blue us to bits



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On Monday, 11 March 2019 14:39:20 UTC, John Rumm wrote:
On 11/03/2019 13:52, Bill Wright wrote:
On 11/03/2019 08:37, Brian Gaff wrote:
He is probably looking out for himself. Surely if there is a system in
place
for this at the hall then it will be obvious as it will have stickers
on it.


I think there's too much reliance placed on stickers. The sticker is
only a sticker. From what I've seen of PAT testing it's largely a box
ticking exercise. I've seen some utterly silly decisions by PAT testers..
I'd rather rely on my own judgement and experience than on that of some
half-trained kid.


Sadly that does seem to be a common problem with many "trained" testers.
Over reliance on the "I connect to tester, push button, it says ok, must
be good" school of thought. Whereas in the case of something like an
extension lead the proper visual inspection is worth as much or more
than the electrical tests.


I've seen the results of that, speaker wire used as mains wire etc. More common are testers that have done a course but are still ignorant of a fair range of gotchas. Old equipment especially often requires more subject understanding than you'll get on any PAT course.


NT


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On Mon, 11 Mar 2019 13:52:05 +0000, Bill Wright
wrote:

On 11/03/2019 08:37, Brian Gaff wrote:
He is probably looking out for himself. Surely if there is a system in place
for this at the hall then it will be obvious as it will have stickers on it.


I think there's too much reliance placed on stickers. The sticker is
only a sticker. From what I've seen of PAT testing it's largely a box
ticking exercise. I've seen some utterly silly decisions by PAT testers.
I'd rather rely on my own judgement and experience than on that of some
half-trained kid.

Bill


The sheer joy of PAT is the fact that any fool can set up as a tester
and indeed a lot do, they are paid peanuts for what they think is a
simple no brain cell job.

I did the C&G course for the practical and it was delivered over a
period of a few weeks.

The lecturer was plain wrong on a couple of points, so there were a
few "interesting" discussions. No one but myself challenged any part
of the course and indeed most of the "students" were council workmen
who would have gret difficulty getting through the Sun.

Like yourself though, they all knew everything there was to know about
the subject even before they did the course.

AB
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In article ,
wrote:
On Monday, 11 March 2019 14:39:20 UTC, John Rumm wrote:
On 11/03/2019 13:52, Bill Wright wrote:
On 11/03/2019 08:37, Brian Gaff wrote:
He is probably looking out for himself. Surely if there is a system
in place for this at the hall then it will be obvious as it will
have stickers on it.


I think there's too much reliance placed on stickers. The sticker is
only a sticker. From what I've seen of PAT testing it's largely a box
ticking exercise. I've seen some utterly silly decisions by PAT
testers. I'd rather rely on my own judgement and experience than on
that of some half-trained kid.


Sadly that does seem to be a common problem with many "trained"
testers. Over reliance on the "I connect to tester, push button, it
says ok, must be good" school of thought. Whereas in the case of
something like an extension lead the proper visual inspection is worth
as much or more than the electrical tests.


I've seen the results of that, speaker wire used as mains wire etc. More
common are testers that have done a course but are still ignorant of a
fair range of gotchas. Old equipment especially often requires more
subject understanding than you'll get on any PAT course.


Of course, what's now just 'speaker wire' used to be 'mains wire'.
Woolworths sold it as such.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle
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On Tuesday, 12 March 2019 06:15:08 UTC, charles wrote:
Of course, what's now just 'speaker wire' used to be 'mains wire'.
Woolworths sold it as such.


Along with those handy bayonet adapters ...

There's now more copper in 'speaker wire' than there is in 'mains wire' considering a lot of skinny leads on appliances.

Owain

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In article ,
Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq
wrote:
The sheer joy of PAT is the fact that any fool can set up as a tester
and indeed a lot do, they are paid peanuts for what they think is a
simple no brain cell job.


Really? I had to do a course. Didn't really tell me much I didn't already
know.

I doubt there are many with the correct gear who aren't qualified.

--
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Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
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On 11/03/2019 21:42, wrote:
On Monday, 11 March 2019 14:39:20 UTC, John Rumm wrote:
On 11/03/2019 13:52, Bill Wright wrote:
On 11/03/2019 08:37, Brian Gaff wrote:
He is probably looking out for himself. Surely if there is a system in
place
for this at the hall then it will be obvious as it will have stickers
on it.


I think there's too much reliance placed on stickers. The sticker is
only a sticker. From what I've seen of PAT testing it's largely a box
ticking exercise. I've seen some utterly silly decisions by PAT testers..
I'd rather rely on my own judgement and experience than on that of some
half-trained kid.


Sadly that does seem to be a common problem with many "trained" testers.
Over reliance on the "I connect to tester, push button, it says ok, must
be good" school of thought. Whereas in the case of something like an
extension lead the proper visual inspection is worth as much or more
than the electrical tests.


I've seen the results of that, speaker wire used as mains wire etc. More common are testers that have done a course but are still ignorant of a fair range of gotchas. Old equipment especially often requires more subject understanding than you'll get on any PAT course.


Surely speaker wire doesn't have the same colour coding as mains wire.
Usually just a black stripe down one side so you can get the phase right.

--
Max Demian


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On Tuesday, 12 March 2019 11:42:12 UTC, Max Demian wrote:
On 11/03/2019 21:42, tabbypurr wrote:
On Monday, 11 March 2019 14:39:20 UTC, John Rumm wrote:
On 11/03/2019 13:52, Bill Wright wrote:



I think there's too much reliance placed on stickers. The sticker is
only a sticker. From what I've seen of PAT testing it's largely a box
ticking exercise. I've seen some utterly silly decisions by PAT testers..
I'd rather rely on my own judgement and experience than on that of some
half-trained kid.

Sadly that does seem to be a common problem with many "trained" testers.
Over reliance on the "I connect to tester, push button, it says ok, must
be good" school of thought. Whereas in the case of something like an
extension lead the proper visual inspection is worth as much or more
than the electrical tests.


I've seen the results of that, speaker wire used as mains wire etc. More common are testers that have done a course but are still ignorant of a fair range of gotchas. Old equipment especially often requires more subject understanding than you'll get on any PAT course.


Surely speaker wire doesn't have the same colour coding as mains wire.
Usually just a black stripe down one side so you can get the phase right.


It's been available in a wide range of colours over the century. But what's that got to do with it?


NT
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On 12/03/2019 03:57, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq wrote:

Like yourself though, they all knew everything there was to know about
the subject even before they did the course.


Your sarcasm fails because actually I do know everything necessary to
check the safety of a mains extension lead. As do many people.

Unfortunately for technical pseudo-elitists it really isn't rocket science.

Bill
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In article ,
Bill Wright wrote:
On 12/03/2019 03:57, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq wrote:


Like yourself though, they all knew everything there was to know about
the subject even before they did the course.


Your sarcasm fails because actually I do know everything necessary to
check the safety of a mains extension lead. As do many people.


Unfortunately for technical pseudo-elitists it really isn't rocket
science.


Are you saying you've never come across such a thing miss wired, Bill? In
the days when people made up their own extension leads?

I've seen plugs where the brown went to earth. After all brown is closer
to the colour of earth than green.

--
*Sorry, I don't date outside my species.

Dave Plowman London SW
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On 12/03/2019 12:50, wrote:
On Tuesday, 12 March 2019 11:42:12 UTC, Max Demian wrote:
On 11/03/2019 21:42, tabbypurr wrote:
On Monday, 11 March 2019 14:39:20 UTC, John Rumm wrote:
On 11/03/2019 13:52, Bill Wright wrote:



I think there's too much reliance placed on stickers. The sticker is
only a sticker. From what I've seen of PAT testing it's largely a box
ticking exercise. I've seen some utterly silly decisions by PAT testers..
I'd rather rely on my own judgement and experience than on that of some
half-trained kid.

Sadly that does seem to be a common problem with many "trained" testers.
Over reliance on the "I connect to tester, push button, it says ok, must
be good" school of thought. Whereas in the case of something like an
extension lead the proper visual inspection is worth as much or more
than the electrical tests.


I've seen the results of that, speaker wire used as mains wire etc. More common are testers that have done a course but are still ignorant of a fair range of gotchas. Old equipment especially often requires more subject understanding than you'll get on any PAT course.


Surely speaker wire doesn't have the same colour coding as mains wire.
Usually just a black stripe down one side so you can get the phase right.


It's been available in a wide range of colours over the century. But what's that got to do with it?


If it's not red/black or brown/blue, it's not mains cable.

--
Max Demian


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In article ,
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Bill Wright wrote:
On 12/03/2019 03:57, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq wrote:


Like yourself though, they all knew everything there was to know about
the subject even before they did the course.


Your sarcasm fails because actually I do know everything necessary to
check the safety of a mains extension lead. As do many people.


Unfortunately for technical pseudo-elitists it really isn't rocket
science.


Are you saying you've never come across such a thing miss wired, Bill? In
the days when people made up their own extension leads?


I've seen plugs where the brown went to earth. After all brown is closer
to the colour of earth than green.


If it's pre-harmonisation german equipment - red is earth

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle
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In article , Max Demian
wrote:
On 12/03/2019 12:50, wrote:
On Tuesday, 12 March 2019 11:42:12 UTC, Max Demian wrote:
On 11/03/2019 21:42, tabbypurr wrote:
On Monday, 11 March 2019 14:39:20 UTC, John Rumm wrote:
On 11/03/2019 13:52, Bill Wright wrote:



I think there's too much reliance placed on stickers. The sticker
is only a sticker. From what I've seen of PAT testing it's largely
a box ticking exercise. I've seen some utterly silly decisions by
PAT testers.. I'd rather rely on my own judgement and experience
than on that of some half-trained kid.

Sadly that does seem to be a common problem with many "trained"
testers. Over reliance on the "I connect to tester, push button, it
says ok, must be good" school of thought. Whereas in the case of
something like an extension lead the proper visual inspection is
worth as much or more than the electrical tests.

I've seen the results of that, speaker wire used as mains wire etc.
More common are testers that have done a course but are still
ignorant of a fair range of gotchas. Old equipment especially often
requires more subject understanding than you'll get on any PAT course.

Surely speaker wire doesn't have the same colour coding as mains wire.
Usually just a black stripe down one side so you can get the phase
right.


It's been available in a wide range of colours over the century. But
what's that got to do with it?


If it's not red/black or brown/blue, it's not mains cable.


It isn't now - but it was then.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle
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On Tuesday, 12 March 2019 17:30:30 UTC, Max Demian wrote:
On 12/03/2019 12:50, tabbypurr wrote:
On Tuesday, 12 March 2019 11:42:12 UTC, Max Demian wrote:
On 11/03/2019 21:42, tabbypurr wrote:
On Monday, 11 March 2019 14:39:20 UTC, John Rumm wrote:
On 11/03/2019 13:52, Bill Wright wrote:



I think there's too much reliance placed on stickers. The sticker is
only a sticker. From what I've seen of PAT testing it's largely a box
ticking exercise. I've seen some utterly silly decisions by PAT testers..
I'd rather rely on my own judgement and experience than on that of some
half-trained kid.

Sadly that does seem to be a common problem with many "trained" testers.
Over reliance on the "I connect to tester, push button, it says ok, must
be good" school of thought. Whereas in the case of something like an
extension lead the proper visual inspection is worth as much or more
than the electrical tests.

I've seen the results of that, speaker wire used as mains wire etc. More common are testers that have done a course but are still ignorant of a fair range of gotchas. Old equipment especially often requires more subject understanding than you'll get on any PAT course.

Surely speaker wire doesn't have the same colour coding as mains wire.
Usually just a black stripe down one side so you can get the phase right.


It's been available in a wide range of colours over the century. But what's that got to do with it?


If it's not red/black or brown/blue, it's not mains cable.


I've got plenty of kit with mains cables not coloured blue/brown or red/black.


NT
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On Tuesday, 12 March 2019 13:15:08 UTC, Bill Wright wrote:
On 12/03/2019 03:57, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq wrote:


Like yourself though, they all knew everything there was to know about
the subject even before they did the course.


Your sarcasm fails because actually I do know everything necessary to
check the safety of a mains extension lead. As do many people.

Unfortunately for technical pseudo-elitists it really isn't rocket science.

Bill


You're welcome to your opinion, but this time it's just wrong. Under different circumstances I'd test you by showing you a bunch of difficult appliances to test. Let's get some examples I've encountered that would catch many pat testers out:
1952 Hoover floor polisher
1937 McMichael radio
Modern 6 way extension lead
1951 Hoover junior vacuum cleaner
Modern LED lights
Assorted wallwarts
1934 2 valve reaction set, home made
Fan heater, 1960s or 70s
Fan heater, 2017

In fact why not. Ask whatever PAT test relevant questions you need to about them, see if you can spot the issues.


NT
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On Tue, 12 Mar 2019 13:15:05 +0000, Bill Wright
wrote:

On 12/03/2019 03:57, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq wrote:

Like yourself though, they all knew everything there was to know about
the subject even before they did the course.


Your sarcasm fails because actually I do know everything necessary to
check the safety of a mains extension lead. As do many people.

Unfortunately for technical pseudo-elitists it really isn't rocket science.

Bill


Really?

I would suggest that you are not fit to plug the dammned cable into a
socket.

"Just check the cable and then tell her it's been PAT tested. Print a
label off the internet (there's loads) and stick it on the thing if you
can be bothered."



Bill


Sums up the approach fully does it not?

One should either do things correctly or not at all.

Being bothered 100% of the time is mandatory!

AB


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On 12/03/2019 18:15, wrote:
On Tuesday, 12 March 2019 17:30:30 UTC, Max Demian wrote:
On 12/03/2019 12:50, tabbypurr wrote:
On Tuesday, 12 March 2019 11:42:12 UTC, Max Demian wrote:
On 11/03/2019 21:42, tabbypurr wrote:
On Monday, 11 March 2019 14:39:20 UTC, John Rumm wrote:
On 11/03/2019 13:52, Bill Wright wrote:


I think there's too much reliance placed on stickers. The sticker is
only a sticker. From what I've seen of PAT testing it's largely a box
ticking exercise. I've seen some utterly silly decisions by PAT testers..
I'd rather rely on my own judgement and experience than on that of some
half-trained kid.

Sadly that does seem to be a common problem with many "trained" testers.
Over reliance on the "I connect to tester, push button, it says ok, must
be good" school of thought. Whereas in the case of something like an
extension lead the proper visual inspection is worth as much or more
than the electrical tests.

I've seen the results of that, speaker wire used as mains wire etc. More common are testers that have done a course but are still ignorant of a fair range of gotchas. Old equipment especially often requires more subject understanding than you'll get on any PAT course.

Surely speaker wire doesn't have the same colour coding as mains wire.
Usually just a black stripe down one side so you can get the phase right.

It's been available in a wide range of colours over the century. But what's that got to do with it?


If it's not red/black or brown/blue, it's not mains cable.


I've got plenty of kit with mains cables not coloured blue/brown or red/black.


Well yes extruded pairs but they can probably be used for either.

--
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On 12/03/2019 16:06, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Bill Wright wrote:
On 12/03/2019 03:57, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq wrote:


Like yourself though, they all knew everything there was to know about
the subject even before they did the course.


Your sarcasm fails because actually I do know everything necessary to
check the safety of a mains extension lead. As do many people.


Unfortunately for technical pseudo-elitists it really isn't rocket
science.


Are you saying you've never come across such a thing miss wired, Bill? In
the days when people made up their own extension leads?

I've seen plugs where the brown went to earth. After all brown is closer
to the colour of earth than green.


Yes I've seen many such things. Very easy to detect. Like I said, not
rocket science.

Bill
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On 12/03/2019 19:22, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq wrote:

Your sarcasm fails because actually I do know everything necessary to
check the safety of a mains extension lead. As do many people.

Unfortunately for technical pseudo-elitists it really isn't rocket science.

Bill


Really?

I would suggest that you are not fit to plug the dammned cable into a
socket.


What danger would befall me or others were I to do that? Bear in mind
that I used to buy and install extension cables 25 at a time, and I used
to buy 13A plugs fitted with 3A fuses by the hundred and use them all,
and in fifty years I didn't electrocute or otherwise harm a single person.

Bill
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On Tuesday, 12 March 2019 18:12:08 UTC, charles wrote:
In article ,
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Bill Wright wrote:
On 12/03/2019 03:57, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq wrote:


Like yourself though, they all knew everything there was to know about
the subject even before they did the course.


Your sarcasm fails because actually I do know everything necessary to
check the safety of a mains extension lead. As do many people.


Unfortunately for technical pseudo-elitists it really isn't rocket
science.


Are you saying you've never come across such a thing miss wired, Bill? In
the days when people made up their own extension leads?


I've seen plugs where the brown went to earth. After all brown is closer
to the colour of earth than green.


If it's pre-harmonisation german equipment - red is earth


About 20 years ago one of our German research student wired a plug up, like that.
Perhaps that one reason why we don't allow DIY lead making and if we really need to they get PAT tested.







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On 12/03/2019 19:22, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq wrote:
On Tue, 12 Mar 2019 13:15:05 +0000, Bill Wright
wrote:

On 12/03/2019 03:57, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq wrote:

Like yourself though, they all knew everything there was to know about
the subject even before they did the course.


Your sarcasm fails because actually I do know everything necessary to
check the safety of a mains extension lead. As do many people.

Unfortunately for technical pseudo-elitists it really isn't rocket science.

Bill


Really?

I would suggest that you are not fit to plug the dammned cable into a
socket.


Yup, but that is because you are generally obnoxious and have your head
too far up your own arse.


--
Cheers,

John.

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On Wednesday, 13 March 2019 03:40:41 UTC, Bill Wright wrote:
On 12/03/2019 18:21, tabbypurr wrote:

Like yourself though, they all knew everything there was to know about
the subject even before they did the course.

Your sarcasm fails because actually I do know everything necessary to
check the safety of a mains extension lead. As do many people.

Unfortunately for technical pseudo-elitists it really isn't rocket science.

Bill


You're welcome to your opinion, but this time it's just wrong. Under different circumstances I'd test you by showing you a bunch of difficult appliances to test.


You're moving the goalposts. See my words above: "I do know everything
necessary to check the safety of a mains extension lead." I didn't
mention other devices.

Let's get some examples I've encountered that would catch many pat
testers out:
1952 Hoover floor polisher
1937 McMichael radio
Modern 6 way extension lead
1951 Hoover junior vacuum cleaner
Modern LED lights
Assorted wallwarts
1934 2 valve reaction set, home made
Fan heater, 1960s or 70s
Fan heater, 2017


Bill


You can just address the modern extension lead if you like.


NT
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On Wednesday, 13 March 2019 03:44:34 UTC, Bill Wright wrote:
On 12/03/2019 19:22, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq wrote:


I would suggest that you are not fit to plug the dammned cable into a
socket.


What danger would befall me or others were I to do that? Bear in mind
that I used to buy and install extension cables 25 at a time, and I used
to buy 13A plugs fitted with 3A fuses by the hundred and use them all,
and in fifty years I didn't electrocute or otherwise harm a single person.

Bill


I used to do various silly things with mains when a kid, no-one got harmed, doesn't mean it was safe.
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On 12/03/2019 18:21, wrote:
On Tuesday, 12 March 2019 13:15:08 UTC, Bill Wright wrote:
On 12/03/2019 03:57, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq wrote:


Like yourself though, they all knew everything there was to know about
the subject even before they did the course.


Your sarcasm fails because actually I do know everything necessary to
check the safety of a mains extension lead. As do many people.

Unfortunately for technical pseudo-elitists it really isn't rocket science.

Bill


You're welcome to your opinion, but this time it's just wrong.


Its likely that its not wrong, however since you don't have adequate
information to assess Bill's competence to verify if an extension lead
is safe, the statement is pointless.

Under different circumstances I'd test you by showing you a bunch of difficult appliances to test. Let's get some examples I've encountered that would catch many pat testers out:


You seem to be discussing more than just extension leads here...

1952 Hoover floor polisher
1937 McMichael radio
1951 Hoover junior vacuum cleaner
1934 2 valve reaction set, home made
Fan heater, 1960s or 70s


Can't see those being common in the average office, and your average PAT
testing course is unlikely to dwell on specific instructions for vintage
kit.

Modern 6 way extension lead
Modern LED lights
Assorted wallwarts
Fan heater, 2017


Wall warts in particular show one of the weaknesses of PAT tests - many
are fundamentally compromised by poor design and yet you can't see that
from outside of the box, and testing to prove the point would be
destructive so unlikely to be popular with clients.

99%+ of what you will meet PAT testing for businesses requires some
experience, a small amount of test gear, and a basic level of
understanding of electrical principles. Its a skilled endeavour, but
trainable. It does not require a graduate level engineer.

Rocket science on the other hand is difficult - not least because it
involves a vastly wider range of disciplines and far more difficult sums!


--
Cheers,

John.

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On 13/03/2019 10:38, whisky-dave wrote:
On Tuesday, 12 March 2019 18:12:08 UTC, charles wrote:
In article , Dave Plowman (News)
wrote:
In article , Bill Wright
wrote:
On 12/03/2019 03:57, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq wrote:


Like yourself though, they all knew everything there was to
know about the subject even before they did the course.


Your sarcasm fails because actually I do know everything
necessary to check the safety of a mains extension lead. As do
many people.


Unfortunately for technical pseudo-elitists it really isn't
rocket science.


Are you saying you've never come across such a thing miss wired,
Bill? In the days when people made up their own extension leads?


I've seen plugs where the brown went to earth. After all brown is
closer to the colour of earth than green.


If it's pre-harmonisation german equipment - red is earth


About 20 years ago one of our German research student wired a plug
up, like that. Perhaps that one reason why we don't allow DIY lead
making and if we really need to they get PAT tested.


One of the engineers at GEC made up some plugs that would pass a PAT
tester but they were so dangerous we banned him from touching anything
electrical.
He stripped about 1 1/2 inches of insulation off each core and screwed
the end into the terminals, we found it after fuses started to blow if
you moved the flex a bit on some he hadn't tightened the strain relief
enough.

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