On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 11:45:47 -0700, lowbrowman, the endlessly driveling,
troll-feeding, senile idiot, blabbered again:


I worked for a company around 1970...

Oh, no! Yet another lengthy senile bull**** story! LOL

On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 13:00:48 -0600, Dean Hoffman, another brain dead,
troll-feeding senile Yankietard, blathered:


Pretty much the same reason one doesn't always turn

BUT: you will ALWAYS thankfully take his baits, regardless of how idiotic
they may be, right, troll-feeding, senile idiot? LOL

On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 21:23:55 -0000, mike wrote:

On 12/29/2018 10:16 AM, William Gothberg wrote:
On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 17:38:04 -0000, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 08:07:42 -0800, Bob F wrote:

On 12/29/2018 6:37 AM, trader_4 wrote:
On Saturday, December 29, 2018 at 9:23:42 AM UTC-5, Bill Gill wrote:
On 12/29/2018 7:43 AM, William Gothberg wrote:
Shouldn't we have faster microwaves by now giving out a few kW? They
were invented decades ago.
Higher powered microwaves would require higher powered electric
outlets, probably 220VAC (in the USA).

Also it is questionable whether higher powered ovens would be
practical for use. Getting warming times down to a couple of
seconds might not be a good idea. More speed is not always better.

Bill

+1

That about covers it. Not sure how useful more power would be. For
example,
last night I was thawing out a tomato sauce in a quart plastic
container.
The Panasonic has a defrost mode that uses about 30% power and
cycles that.


It gets the 30% power by cycling the 100% power on 30% of the time.

(By the way, adjusting the level does not actually change the wattage.
It simply means the microwave will pulse on and off at its fixed wattage
until the desired level is reached.)

https://lifehacker.com/5974788/famil...-cooking-a-joy

That was true of the first generation of Microwaves, but the current
"inverter" driver units actually CAN throttle the power. Inverter
microwaves are much better for defrosting AND cooking.

We've had ours for about 2 years now - replacing our original that we
bought in about 1985.

BIG difference (but the old one would likely still be working by the
time this one dies)

Why is it called an invertor? I thought an invertor was a device to
increase the voltage - like running 240V devices off a 12V car battery.

And why on earth would you not want to cook on full power? I've never
had a reason to lower the power from the maximum of 800W. I want the
meal as soon as possible!

There's been a lot of nitpicking in this thread.

All microwaves reduce power by cycling between 0 and 100% power.
The relative power level is the duty factor of that on/off cycle.

Older microwaves switch the INPUT to the power transformer.
That also runs the filament. The time to heat up the filament
is the limiting factor in how short you can make the on-time.
You get a minimum of about 10 seconds on-time.
That minimum time is plenty to make food explode.

Better microwaves are called "Inverter" microwaves.
I believe they're all licensed from Panasonic.
When I bought mine, it seemed that all the licensees had
dried up leaving Panasonic as the only locally available units.

It's my understanding that they heat the filament independently
and can have very short on-times. Duty factor is the same as
the older microwaves, but the on-time can be much shorter.

Foods don't explode on low power like they used to.

Food is not uniform. The effectiveness of microwaves decreases
as the food thickness increases. There's a thermal time constant.
So, if you cook at lower average power for longer time,
you can warm the inside without seriously overcooking the outside
or having local boiling that makes food explode.

The minimum on-time really helps with that. I haven't had food
explode since I got an Inverter microwave. The defrost cycle
really does work well.

They're slightly more expensive, but it's worth it.

I've never exploded food on a non-invertor microwave. Maybe I don't cook thick enough stuff. Or maybe they should work more on making the microwaves more even so you don't get so many hotspots.

On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 14:18:09 -0600, Arthur Conan Doyle, another mentally
challenged, troll-feeding senile Yankietard, blathered:


They do. Some microwaves had rotating wave guides hidden above the cooking
chamber in an attempt to even things out. Haven't looked to see if they still do
or just rely on the turntable, which doesn't work all that well. Suspect the
density consistency and evenness of the water content of the item being cooked
is the reason.

Slowly but surely, your senile heads seem to working it all out ...all
thanks to the trolling piece of Scottish ****! Yeah, idiots and seniles
obviously belong together! LOL

On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 13:23:55 -0800, mike, another mentally challenged
troll-feeding senile Yankietard, blathered:


There's been a lot of nitpicking in this thread.

Yeah, and you troll-feeding senile Yanks have been instrumental to it!

On 12/29/2018 11:51 AM, William Gothberg wrote:
I've watched countless Youtube videos of people abusing microwaves. The
funniest one was a teenager who thought it would be a good idea to
microwave one of those chemical lights - the ones you shake and they
glow green. It exploded and got him in the eyes, followed by his father
yelling "I told you not to do that!". I fell off my chair laughing.

Do not attempt to cook raw chicken livers in a microwave.

The preheaters were 100 MHz, not microwaves, but a fluorescent tube
would light if it was in the RF cavity. This was handy so a tube was
mounted in standard fuse clips which were bolted to the aluminum walls.
It was amusing to watch old school plant electricians figuring out how a
light with no wiring worked.

We also made use of the effect by taping a fluorescent to a broomstick
and waving it around the RF cavity to see if it was leaking.

That may be another factor for high power consumer microwaves. Various
government agencies get snarly if you're inadvertently running a
microwave transmitter in the kitchen. More power, more shielding.

Boring

--
Chris Green
·

On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 15:36:44 -0700, lowbrowman, the endlessly driveling,
troll-feeding, senile idiot, blabbered again:


Do not attempt to cook raw chicken livers in a microwave.

He WILL keep attempting to bait all you senile Yanks on ahr! And he WILL
succeed, EVERY time! Wanna bet, lowbrowman? G

"William Gothberg" wrote in message
news
On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 21:23:55 -0000, mike wrote:

On 12/29/2018 10:16 AM, William Gothberg wrote:
On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 17:38:04 -0000, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 08:07:42 -0800, Bob F wrote:

On 12/29/2018 6:37 AM, trader_4 wrote:
On Saturday, December 29, 2018 at 9:23:42 AM UTC-5, Bill Gill wrote:
On 12/29/2018 7:43 AM, William Gothberg wrote:
Shouldn't we have faster microwaves by now giving out a few kW?
They
were invented decades ago.
Higher powered microwaves would require higher powered electric
outlets, probably 220VAC (in the USA).

Also it is questionable whether higher powered ovens would be
practical for use. Getting warming times down to a couple of
seconds might not be a good idea. More speed is not always better.

Bill

+1

That about covers it. Not sure how useful more power would be. For
example,
last night I was thawing out a tomato sauce in a quart plastic
container.
The Panasonic has a defrost mode that uses about 30% power and
cycles that.


It gets the 30% power by cycling the 100% power on 30% of the time.

(By the way, adjusting the level does not actually change the wattage.
It simply means the microwave will pulse on and off at its fixed
wattage
until the desired level is reached.)

https://lifehacker.com/5974788/famil...-cooking-a-joy

That was true of the first generation of Microwaves, but the current
"inverter" driver units actually CAN throttle the power. Inverter
microwaves are much better for defrosting AND cooking.

We've had ours for about 2 years now - replacing our original that we
bought in about 1985.

BIG difference (but the old one would likely still be working by the
time this one dies)

Why is it called an invertor? I thought an invertor was a device to
increase the voltage - like running 240V devices off a 12V car battery.

And why on earth would you not want to cook on full power? I've never
had a reason to lower the power from the maximum of 800W. I want the
meal as soon as possible!

There's been a lot of nitpicking in this thread.

All microwaves reduce power by cycling between 0 and 100% power.
The relative power level is the duty factor of that on/off cycle.

Older microwaves switch the INPUT to the power transformer.
That also runs the filament. The time to heat up the filament
is the limiting factor in how short you can make the on-time.
You get a minimum of about 10 seconds on-time.
That minimum time is plenty to make food explode.

Better microwaves are called "Inverter" microwaves.
I believe they're all licensed from Panasonic.
When I bought mine, it seemed that all the licensees had
dried up leaving Panasonic as the only locally available units.

It's my understanding that they heat the filament independently
and can have very short on-times. Duty factor is the same as
the older microwaves, but the on-time can be much shorter.

Foods don't explode on low power like they used to.

Food is not uniform. The effectiveness of microwaves decreases
as the food thickness increases. There's a thermal time constant.
So, if you cook at lower average power for longer time,
you can warm the inside without seriously overcooking the outside
or having local boiling that makes food explode.

The minimum on-time really helps with that. I haven't had food
explode since I got an Inverter microwave. The defrost cycle
really does work well.

They're slightly more expensive, but it's worth it.

I've never exploded food on a non-invertor microwave.

Try microwaving an egg in its shell sometime.

Maybe I don't cook thick enough stuff.

Yep, you vegys don't.

Or maybe they should work more on making the microwaves more even so you
don't get so many hotspots.

That's not the problem. The problem is that with something
large like a leg of lamb, the microwaves get absorbed on
the outside so that if you blast it with full power of say 2KW
you will burn the outside and leave the inside uncooked.

On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 22:49:05 -0000, 87213 wrote:



"William Gothberg" wrote in message
news
On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 21:23:55 -0000, mike wrote:

On 12/29/2018 10:16 AM, William Gothberg wrote:
On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 17:38:04 -0000, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 08:07:42 -0800, Bob F wrote:

On 12/29/2018 6:37 AM, trader_4 wrote:
On Saturday, December 29, 2018 at 9:23:42 AM UTC-5, Bill Gill wrote:
On 12/29/2018 7:43 AM, William Gothberg wrote:
Shouldn't we have faster microwaves by now giving out a few kW?
They
were invented decades ago.
Higher powered microwaves would require higher powered electric
outlets, probably 220VAC (in the USA).

Also it is questionable whether higher powered ovens would be
practical for use. Getting warming times down to a couple of
seconds might not be a good idea. More speed is not always better.

Bill

+1

That about covers it. Not sure how useful more power would be. For
example,
last night I was thawing out a tomato sauce in a quart plastic
container.
The Panasonic has a defrost mode that uses about 30% power and
cycles that.


It gets the 30% power by cycling the 100% power on 30% of the time.

(By the way, adjusting the level does not actually change the wattage.
It simply means the microwave will pulse on and off at its fixed
wattage
until the desired level is reached.)

https://lifehacker.com/5974788/famil...-cooking-a-joy

That was true of the first generation of Microwaves, but the current
"inverter" driver units actually CAN throttle the power. Inverter
microwaves are much better for defrosting AND cooking.

We've had ours for about 2 years now - replacing our original that we
bought in about 1985.

BIG difference (but the old one would likely still be working by the
time this one dies)

Why is it called an invertor? I thought an invertor was a device to
increase the voltage - like running 240V devices off a 12V car battery.

And why on earth would you not want to cook on full power? I've never
had a reason to lower the power from the maximum of 800W. I want the
meal as soon as possible!

There's been a lot of nitpicking in this thread.

All microwaves reduce power by cycling between 0 and 100% power.
The relative power level is the duty factor of that on/off cycle.

Older microwaves switch the INPUT to the power transformer.
That also runs the filament. The time to heat up the filament
is the limiting factor in how short you can make the on-time.
You get a minimum of about 10 seconds on-time.
That minimum time is plenty to make food explode.

Better microwaves are called "Inverter" microwaves.
I believe they're all licensed from Panasonic.
When I bought mine, it seemed that all the licensees had
dried up leaving Panasonic as the only locally available units.

It's my understanding that they heat the filament independently
and can have very short on-times. Duty factor is the same as
the older microwaves, but the on-time can be much shorter.

Foods don't explode on low power like they used to.

Food is not uniform. The effectiveness of microwaves decreases
as the food thickness increases. There's a thermal time constant.
So, if you cook at lower average power for longer time,
you can warm the inside without seriously overcooking the outside
or having local boiling that makes food explode.

The minimum on-time really helps with that. I haven't had food
explode since I got an Inverter microwave. The defrost cycle
really does work well.

They're slightly more expensive, but it's worth it.

I've never exploded food on a non-invertor microwave.

Try microwaving an egg in its shell sometime.

People are free to microwave at a lower power if they wish Rod. Nothing wrong with increasing the maximum available Mr Speed.

Maybe I don't cook thick enough stuff.

Yep, you vegys don't.

We eat real food Rod, not pre-prepared stuff already digested Mr Speed. I guess this is why my cats **** so much, because there's so little nutrition in meat that they have to eat so much of it.

Or maybe they should work more on making the microwaves more even so you
don't get so many hotspots.

That's not the problem. The problem is that with something
large like a leg of lamb, the microwaves get absorbed on
the outside so that if you blast it with full power of say 2KW
you will burn the outside and leave the inside uncooked.

Not everything in a microwave is large Rod. You're always free to select a different output level for larger pieces of meat Mr Speed.

On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 22:47:40 +0000, Chris Green, another mentally challenged
senile troll-lover, babbled:

Boring

NOT for me, you laughable senile troll-lover! LOL

On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 22:36:44 -0000, rbowman wrote:

On 12/29/2018 11:51 AM, William Gothberg wrote:
I've watched countless Youtube videos of people abusing microwaves. The
funniest one was a teenager who thought it would be a good idea to
microwave one of those chemical lights - the ones you shake and they
glow green. It exploded and got him in the eyes, followed by his father
yelling "I told you not to do that!". I fell off my chair laughing.

Do not attempt to cook raw chicken livers in a microwave.

I don't eat meat, I prefer real food. Stuff that doesn't give me food poisoning if I cook it wrong.

The preheaters were 100 MHz, not microwaves, but a fluorescent tube
would light if it was in the RF cavity. This was handy so a tube was
mounted in standard fuse clips which were bolted to the aluminum walls.
It was amusing to watch old school plant electricians figuring out how a
light with no wiring worked.

We also made use of the effect by taping a fluorescent to a broomstick
and waving it around the RF cavity to see if it was leaking.

Fluorescents are fun with Van de Graffs.

That may be another factor for high power consumer microwaves. Various
government agencies get snarly if you're inadvertently running a
microwave transmitter in the kitchen. More power, more shielding.

I can very easily defeat the door safety catches and leave the thing running with the door open in my garden if I wanted to **** them off.

On 12/29/2018 1:23 PM, mike wrote:

It gets the 30% power by cycling the 100% power on 30% of the time.

(By the way, adjusting the level does not actually change the wattage.
It simply means the microwave will pulse on and off at its fixed
wattage
until the desired level is reached.)

https://lifehacker.com/5974788/famil...-cooking-a-joy


*That was true of the first generation of Microwaves, but the current
"inverter" driver units actually CAN throttle the power. Inverter
microwaves are much better for defrosting AND cooking.

All microwaves reduce power by cycling between 0 and 100% power.
The relative power level is the duty factor of that on/off cycle.

Older microwaves switch the INPUT to the power transformer.
That also runs the filament.* The time to heat up the filament
is the limiting factor in how short you can make the on-time.
You get a minimum of about 10 seconds on-time.
That minimum time is plenty to make food explode.

I believe they're all licensed from Panasonic.
When I bought mine, it seemed that all the licensees had
dried up leaving Panasonic as the only locally available units.

It's my understanding that they heat the filament independently
and can have very short on-times. Duty factor is the same as
the older microwaves, but the on-time can be much shorter.

Foods don't explode on low power like they used to.


I was all ready to concede that I was wrong. Then you came along and
proved otherwise. Thanks for educating me.

Obviously, I've never had an "inverter microwave".

Dean Hoffman formulated on Saturday :
Well, the microwave cooking instructions on a lot of things say to stir
halfway
through cooking time. That would lead me to think microwaves have the same
issue as conventional ovens with the evenness factor.

I would expect the microwave energy to follow the inverse square law
and the energy to rapidly drop off the deeper it has to penetrate the
food, especially so if that food is a solid, with no convection
currents as in a liquid. So more power, will cook the outside too
quickly and leave the middle un-cooked or even cold.

On 12/29/2018 12:06 PM, William Gothberg wrote:
On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 18:00:47 -0000, Bill Gill wrote:

On 12/29/2018 11:29 AM, William Gothberg wrote:
On 2018-12-29 10:26 a.m., William Gothberg wrote:
On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 14:46:52 -0000, Andy Bennet wrote:

On 29/12/2018 13:43, William Gothberg wrote:
Shouldn't we have faster microwaves by now giving out a few kW?* They
were invented decades ago.

High power microwaves (1MW) are used in industry in for example ore
extraction/rock pulverizing.
1MW into a cup of water is not pretty, explodes the water contents and
breaks the cup.

I don't need a MW, but the usual 600W to 900W in domestic ovens is
pitiful.* What's wrong with 2kW?

too expensive

1200 watt consumer microwaves are widely available. Check your
Walmart or whatever you have.

1200W isn't much more than the 900W most are.
Let me see: 900 / 1200 = .75.
So a 900 Watt microwave has 3/4 of the power of
a 1200 Watt microwave. Or looking at it the other
way a 1200 Watt microwave has 1/3 more power than
a 900 Watt microwave. That doesn't sound like a
negligible difference. I know when I accidentally
replaced my 1200 Watt unit with an 1100 Watt unit
I noticed the difference. (I didn't look closely
enough when I grabbed it off of the shelf.)

Bill

On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 17:30:36 -0600, Bill Gill, another brain damaged,
troll-feeding, senile Yankietard, blathered:


Let me see: 900 / 1200 = .75.

Let's see you NOT feeding the retarded troll on every occasion, senile Yank!

On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 23:37:19 -0000, trader_4 wrote:

On Saturday, December 29, 2018 at 6:30:41 PM UTC-5, Bill Gill wrote:
On 12/29/2018 12:06 PM, William Gothberg wrote:
On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 18:00:47 -0000, Bill Gill wrote:

On 12/29/2018 11:29 AM, William Gothberg wrote:
On 2018-12-29 10:26 a.m., William Gothberg wrote:
On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 14:46:52 -0000, Andy Bennet wrote:

On 29/12/2018 13:43, William Gothberg wrote:
Shouldn't we have faster microwaves by now giving out a few kW? They
were invented decades ago.

High power microwaves (1MW) are used in industry in for example ore
extraction/rock pulverizing.
1MW into a cup of water is not pretty, explodes the water contents and
breaks the cup.

I don't need a MW, but the usual 600W to 900W in domestic ovens is
pitiful. What's wrong with 2kW?

too expensive

1200 watt consumer microwaves are widely available. Check your
Walmart or whatever you have.

1200W isn't much more than the 900W most are.
Let me see: 900 / 1200 = .75.
So a 900 Watt microwave has 3/4 of the power of
a 1200 Watt microwave. Or looking at it the other
way a 1200 Watt microwave has 1/3 more power than
a 900 Watt microwave. That doesn't sound like a
negligible difference. I know when I accidentally
replaced my 1200 Watt unit with an 1100 Watt unit
I noticed the difference. (I didn't look closely
enough when I grabbed it off of the shelf.)

Bill

+1

It's like saying that going 90 mph isn't much more than going 60. Maybe that helps.

As a rule of thumb, I prefer doubling the power/speed/etc. If I'm going to upgrade my computer's CPU, hard disk, etc, I get one that's twice as good. Less than double just ain't impressive. Same goes for cars, a 2 litre engine is more fun than a 1 litre engine, but adding one third? Why bother? 1.0 litre, 1.3 litre, they're both ****.

And whoever keeps deleting the crossposts, fix your newsreader.

On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 19:02:23 -0000 (UTC), Andrew Gabriel, yet another
absolutely brain dead, troll-feeeding, senile idiot, blathered:


And in reference to your other post, it's not simply a matter of
dividing the cooking time by two.

It's ONLY a matter of HOW many senile idiots he can bait with his idiotc
trolls, you abysmally stupid senile retard! tsk

On 29/12/2018 23:13, William Gothberg wrote:
On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 22:36:44 -0000, rbowman wrote:

On 12/29/2018 11:51 AM, William Gothberg wrote:
I've watched countless Youtube videos of people abusing microwaves.* The
funniest one was a teenager who thought it would be a good idea to
microwave one of those chemical lights - the ones you shake and they
glow green. It exploded and got him in the eyes, followed by his father
yelling "I told you not to do that!".* I fell off my chair laughing.

Do not attempt to cook raw chicken livers in a microwave.

I don't eat meat, I prefer real food.* Stuff that doesn't give me food
poisoning if I cook it wrong.

May I suggest /Amanita phalloides/, grilled for breakfast.

--
Max Demian

On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 23:56:39 +0000, Max Demian, an especially stupid,
notorious, troll-feeding, senile idiot, blathered:


I don't eat meat, I prefer real food.* Stuff that doesn't give me food
poisoning if I cook it wrong.

May I suggest /Amanita phalloides/, grilled for breakfast.

May I suggest you stop feeding the attention starved sociopathic troll?

"William Gothberg" wrote in message
news
On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 22:49:05 -0000, 87213 wrote:



"William Gothberg" wrote in message
news
On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 21:23:55 -0000, mike wrote:

On 12/29/2018 10:16 AM, William Gothberg wrote:
On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 17:38:04 -0000, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 08:07:42 -0800, Bob F
wrote:

On 12/29/2018 6:37 AM, trader_4 wrote:
On Saturday, December 29, 2018 at 9:23:42 AM UTC-5, Bill Gill
wrote:
On 12/29/2018 7:43 AM, William Gothberg wrote:
Shouldn't we have faster microwaves by now giving out a few kW?
They
were invented decades ago.
Higher powered microwaves would require higher powered electric
outlets, probably 220VAC (in the USA).

Also it is questionable whether higher powered ovens would be
practical for use. Getting warming times down to a couple of
seconds might not be a good idea. More speed is not always
better.

Bill

+1

That about covers it. Not sure how useful more power would be.
For
example,
last night I was thawing out a tomato sauce in a quart plastic
container.
The Panasonic has a defrost mode that uses about 30% power and
cycles that.


It gets the 30% power by cycling the 100% power on 30% of the time.

(By the way, adjusting the level does not actually change the
wattage.
It simply means the microwave will pulse on and off at its fixed
wattage
until the desired level is reached.)

https://lifehacker.com/5974788/famil...-cooking-a-joy

That was true of the first generation of Microwaves, but the current
"inverter" driver units actually CAN throttle the power. Inverter
microwaves are much better for defrosting AND cooking.

We've had ours for about 2 years now - replacing our original that we
bought in about 1985.

BIG difference (but the old one would likely still be working by the
time this one dies)

Why is it called an invertor? I thought an invertor was a device to
increase the voltage - like running 240V devices off a 12V car
battery.

And why on earth would you not want to cook on full power? I've never
had a reason to lower the power from the maximum of 800W. I want the
meal as soon as possible!

There's been a lot of nitpicking in this thread.

All microwaves reduce power by cycling between 0 and 100% power.
The relative power level is the duty factor of that on/off cycle.

Older microwaves switch the INPUT to the power transformer.
That also runs the filament. The time to heat up the filament
is the limiting factor in how short you can make the on-time.
You get a minimum of about 10 seconds on-time.
That minimum time is plenty to make food explode.

Better microwaves are called "Inverter" microwaves.
I believe they're all licensed from Panasonic.
When I bought mine, it seemed that all the licensees had
dried up leaving Panasonic as the only locally available units.

It's my understanding that they heat the filament independently
and can have very short on-times. Duty factor is the same as
the older microwaves, but the on-time can be much shorter.

Foods don't explode on low power like they used to.

Food is not uniform. The effectiveness of microwaves decreases
as the food thickness increases. There's a thermal time constant.
So, if you cook at lower average power for longer time,
you can warm the inside without seriously overcooking the outside
or having local boiling that makes food explode.

The minimum on-time really helps with that. I haven't had food
explode since I got an Inverter microwave. The defrost cycle
really does work well.

They're slightly more expensive, but it's worth it.

I've never exploded food on a non-invertor microwave.

Try microwaving an egg in its shell sometime.

People are free to microwave at a lower power if they wish Rod. Nothing
wrong with increasing the maximum available Mr Speed.

Maybe I don't cook thick enough stuff.

Yep, you vegys don't.

We eat real food Rod,

But not in big enough chunks to
see the effect being discussed.

I guess this is why my cats **** so much, because there's so little
nutrition in meat that they have to eat so much of it.

Guess again. When humans eat nothing but meat
and some do that, they **** rather less than if the
only eat vegys, much of which doesn't get digested.

Or maybe they should work more on making the microwaves more even so you
don't get so many hotspots.

That's not the problem. The problem is that with something
large like a leg of lamb, the microwaves get absorbed on
the outside so that if you blast it with full power of say 2KW
you will burn the outside and leave the inside uncooked.

Not everything in a microwave is large.

But that's the stuff that wouldn't do as well in a 2KW microwave, stupid.

You're always free to select a different output level for larger pieces of
meat

Says the pathetic excuse for a troll that had previously proclaimed
that there is never any need to have anything less than full power.

On Sun, 30 Dec 2018 09:49:05 +1100, 87213, better known as cantankerous
trolling senile geezer Rot Speed, wrote:

FLUSH the stinking troll****

You got a problem with people's killfiles, you ridiculous, nym-shifting,
senile idiot? LOL


--
about senile Rot Speed:
"This is like having a conversation with someone with brain damage."
MID:

On Sun, 30 Dec 2018 11:06:53 +1100, 87213, better known as cantankerous
trolling senile geezer Rot Speed, wrote:

FLUSH troll****

....and much better air in here again!

--
The Natural Philosopher about senile Rot:
"Rod speed is not a Brexiteer. He is an Australian troll and arsehole."
Message-ID:

On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 23:56:39 -0000, Max Demian wrote:

On 29/12/2018 23:13, William Gothberg wrote:
On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 22:36:44 -0000, rbowman wrote:

On 12/29/2018 11:51 AM, William Gothberg wrote:
I've watched countless Youtube videos of people abusing microwaves. The
funniest one was a teenager who thought it would be a good idea to
microwave one of those chemical lights - the ones you shake and they
glow green. It exploded and got him in the eyes, followed by his father
yelling "I told you not to do that!". I fell off my chair laughing.

Do not attempt to cook raw chicken livers in a microwave.

I don't eat meat, I prefer real food. Stuff that doesn't give me food
poisoning if I cook it wrong.

May I suggest /Amanita phalloides/, grilled for breakfast.

Not available in Tesco, with or without your strange / signs.

On Sun, 30 Dec 2018 00:04:06 -0000, trader_4 wrote:

On Saturday, December 29, 2018 at 6:37:22 PM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote:
On Saturday, December 29, 2018 at 6:30:41 PM UTC-5, Bill Gill wrote:
On 12/29/2018 12:06 PM, William Gothberg wrote:
On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 18:00:47 -0000, Bill Gill wrote:

On 12/29/2018 11:29 AM, William Gothberg wrote:
On 2018-12-29 10:26 a.m., William Gothberg wrote:
On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 14:46:52 -0000, Andy Bennet wrote:

On 29/12/2018 13:43, William Gothberg wrote:
Shouldn't we have faster microwaves by now giving out a few kW? They
were invented decades ago.

High power microwaves (1MW) are used in industry in for example ore
extraction/rock pulverizing.
1MW into a cup of water is not pretty, explodes the water contents and
breaks the cup.

I don't need a MW, but the usual 600W to 900W in domestic ovens is
pitiful. What's wrong with 2kW?

too expensive

1200 watt consumer microwaves are widely available. Check your
Walmart or whatever you have.

1200W isn't much more than the 900W most are.
Let me see: 900 / 1200 = .75.
So a 900 Watt microwave has 3/4 of the power of
a 1200 Watt microwave. Or looking at it the other
way a 1200 Watt microwave has 1/3 more power than
a 900 Watt microwave. That doesn't sound like a
negligible difference. I know when I accidentally
replaced my 1200 Watt unit with an 1100 Watt unit
I noticed the difference. (I didn't look closely
enough when I grabbed it off of the shelf.)

Bill

+1

It's like saying that going 90 mph isn't much more than going 60. Maybe that helps.

Typo there, meant 80 versus 60.

It isn't much more, I go 100 in 60 limits.

[crossposts repaired, stop ****ing about]

On Sun, 30 Dec 2018 00:06:53 -0000, 87213 wrote:



"William Gothberg" wrote in message
news
On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 22:49:05 -0000, 87213 wrote:



"William Gothberg" wrote in message
news On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 21:23:55 -0000, mike wrote:

On 12/29/2018 10:16 AM, William Gothberg wrote:
On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 17:38:04 -0000, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 08:07:42 -0800, Bob F
wrote:

On 12/29/2018 6:37 AM, trader_4 wrote:
On Saturday, December 29, 2018 at 9:23:42 AM UTC-5, Bill Gill
wrote:
On 12/29/2018 7:43 AM, William Gothberg wrote:
Shouldn't we have faster microwaves by now giving out a few kW?
They
were invented decades ago.
Higher powered microwaves would require higher powered electric
outlets, probably 220VAC (in the USA).

Also it is questionable whether higher powered ovens would be
practical for use. Getting warming times down to a couple of
seconds might not be a good idea. More speed is not always
better.

Bill

+1

That about covers it. Not sure how useful more power would be.
For
example,
last night I was thawing out a tomato sauce in a quart plastic
container.
The Panasonic has a defrost mode that uses about 30% power and
cycles that.


It gets the 30% power by cycling the 100% power on 30% of the time.

(By the way, adjusting the level does not actually change the
wattage.
It simply means the microwave will pulse on and off at its fixed
wattage
until the desired level is reached.)

https://lifehacker.com/5974788/famil...-cooking-a-joy

That was true of the first generation of Microwaves, but the current
"inverter" driver units actually CAN throttle the power. Inverter
microwaves are much better for defrosting AND cooking.

We've had ours for about 2 years now - replacing our original that we
bought in about 1985.

BIG difference (but the old one would likely still be working by the
time this one dies)

Why is it called an invertor? I thought an invertor was a device to
increase the voltage - like running 240V devices off a 12V car
battery.

And why on earth would you not want to cook on full power? I've never
had a reason to lower the power from the maximum of 800W. I want the
meal as soon as possible!

There's been a lot of nitpicking in this thread.

All microwaves reduce power by cycling between 0 and 100% power.
The relative power level is the duty factor of that on/off cycle.

Older microwaves switch the INPUT to the power transformer.
That also runs the filament. The time to heat up the filament
is the limiting factor in how short you can make the on-time.
You get a minimum of about 10 seconds on-time.
That minimum time is plenty to make food explode.

Better microwaves are called "Inverter" microwaves.
I believe they're all licensed from Panasonic.
When I bought mine, it seemed that all the licensees had
dried up leaving Panasonic as the only locally available units.

It's my understanding that they heat the filament independently
and can have very short on-times. Duty factor is the same as
the older microwaves, but the on-time can be much shorter.

Foods don't explode on low power like they used to.

Food is not uniform. The effectiveness of microwaves decreases
as the food thickness increases. There's a thermal time constant.
So, if you cook at lower average power for longer time,
you can warm the inside without seriously overcooking the outside
or having local boiling that makes food explode.

The minimum on-time really helps with that. I haven't had food
explode since I got an Inverter microwave. The defrost cycle
really does work well.

They're slightly more expensive, but it's worth it.

I've never exploded food on a non-invertor microwave.

Try microwaving an egg in its shell sometime.

People are free to microwave at a lower power if they wish Rod. Nothing
wrong with increasing the maximum available Mr Speed.

Maybe I don't cook thick enough stuff.

Yep, you vegys don't.

We eat real food Rod,

But not in big enough chunks to
see the effect being discussed.

**** off Rod.

On Sun, 30 Dec 2018 00:17:59 -0000, Clare Snyder wrote:

On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 12:00:47 -0600, Bill Gill
wrote:

On 12/29/2018 11:29 AM, William Gothberg wrote:
On 2018-12-29 10:26 a.m., William Gothberg wrote:
On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 14:46:52 -0000, Andy Bennet wrote:

On 29/12/2018 13:43, William Gothberg wrote:
Shouldn't we have faster microwaves by now giving out a few kW? They
were invented decades ago.

High power microwaves (1MW) are used in industry in for example ore
extraction/rock pulverizing.
1MW into a cup of water is not pretty, explodes the water contents and
breaks the cup.

I don't need a MW, but the usual 600W to 900W in domestic ovens is
pitiful. What's wrong with 2kW?

too expensive

1200 watt consumer microwaves are widely available. Check your
Walmart or whatever you have.

Bill
The "normal" microwave here in Canada is 1000 watts with the odd 1200

Depends what you call normal. Do you mean the cheapest, the most expensive, the most common make, what most people buy, .....

[crosspost repaired, stop ****ing about]

"William Gothberg" wrote in message
news
On Sun, 30 Dec 2018 00:06:53 -0000, 87213 wrote:



"William Gothberg" wrote in message
news
On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 22:49:05 -0000, 87213 wrote:



"William Gothberg" wrote in message
news On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 21:23:55 -0000, mike wrote:

On 12/29/2018 10:16 AM, William Gothberg wrote:
On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 17:38:04 -0000, Clare Snyder

wrote:

On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 08:07:42 -0800, Bob F
wrote:

On 12/29/2018 6:37 AM, trader_4 wrote:
On Saturday, December 29, 2018 at 9:23:42 AM UTC-5, Bill Gill
wrote:
On 12/29/2018 7:43 AM, William Gothberg wrote:
Shouldn't we have faster microwaves by now giving out a few kW?
They
were invented decades ago.
Higher powered microwaves would require higher powered electric
outlets, probably 220VAC (in the USA).

Also it is questionable whether higher powered ovens would be
practical for use. Getting warming times down to a couple of
seconds might not be a good idea. More speed is not always
better.

Bill

+1

That about covers it. Not sure how useful more power would be.
For
example,
last night I was thawing out a tomato sauce in a quart plastic
container.
The Panasonic has a defrost mode that uses about 30% power and
cycles that.


It gets the 30% power by cycling the 100% power on 30% of the
time.

(By the way, adjusting the level does not actually change the
wattage.
It simply means the microwave will pulse on and off at its fixed
wattage
until the desired level is reached.)

https://lifehacker.com/5974788/famil...-cooking-a-joy

That was true of the first generation of Microwaves, but the
current
"inverter" driver units actually CAN throttle the power. Inverter
microwaves are much better for defrosting AND cooking.

We've had ours for about 2 years now - replacing our original that
we
bought in about 1985.

BIG difference (but the old one would likely still be working by
the
time this one dies)

Why is it called an invertor? I thought an invertor was a device to
increase the voltage - like running 240V devices off a 12V car
battery.

And why on earth would you not want to cook on full power? I've
never
had a reason to lower the power from the maximum of 800W. I want
the
meal as soon as possible!

There's been a lot of nitpicking in this thread.

All microwaves reduce power by cycling between 0 and 100% power.
The relative power level is the duty factor of that on/off cycle.

Older microwaves switch the INPUT to the power transformer.
That also runs the filament. The time to heat up the filament
is the limiting factor in how short you can make the on-time.
You get a minimum of about 10 seconds on-time.
That minimum time is plenty to make food explode.

Better microwaves are called "Inverter" microwaves.
I believe they're all licensed from Panasonic.
When I bought mine, it seemed that all the licensees had
dried up leaving Panasonic as the only locally available units.

It's my understanding that they heat the filament independently
and can have very short on-times. Duty factor is the same as
the older microwaves, but the on-time can be much shorter.

Foods don't explode on low power like they used to.

Food is not uniform. The effectiveness of microwaves decreases
as the food thickness increases. There's a thermal time constant.
So, if you cook at lower average power for longer time,
you can warm the inside without seriously overcooking the outside
or having local boiling that makes food explode.

The minimum on-time really helps with that. I haven't had food
explode since I got an Inverter microwave. The defrost cycle
really does work well.

They're slightly more expensive, but it's worth it.

I've never exploded food on a non-invertor microwave.

Try microwaving an egg in its shell sometime.

People are free to microwave at a lower power if they wish Rod. Nothing
wrong with increasing the maximum available Mr Speed.

Maybe I don't cook thick enough stuff.

Yep, you vegys don't.

We eat real food Rod,

But not in big enough chunks to
see the effect being discussed.

**** off Rod.

Go and **** yourself, PHucker.

On Sun, 30 Dec 2018 00:21:51 -0000, Clare Snyder wrote:

On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 10:25:56 -0800 (PST),
wrote:

On Saturday, December 29, 2018 at 1:06:23 PM UTC-5, William Gothberg wrote:
On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 17:57:35 -0000, Bill Gill wrote:

On 12/29/2018 11:34 AM, William Gothberg wrote:
On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 16:56:35 -0000, trader_4 wrote:

On Saturday, December 29, 2018 at 11:27:53 AM UTC-5, William Gothberg
wrote:
On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 14:23:37 -0000, Bill Gill wrote:

On 12/29/2018 7:43 AM, William Gothberg wrote:
Shouldn't we have faster microwaves by now giving out a few kW? They
were invented decades ago.
Higher powered microwaves would require higher powered electric
outlets, probably 220VAC (in the USA).

Not a problem in Europe where everything is 240V. Another reason you
ought to stop that low voltage crap! Do you seriously have to hard
wire all your washing machines, dishwashers, tumble dryers, etc,
etc? And what on earth do you do with hoovers?

No. Of those only a dishwasher is hardwired, typically. The rest are
plug
and cord, 240V in the case of electric dryers. Works for me.

So you do have sockets where you can plug in 240V 3kW devices, just like
in the UK. So no problem with a more powerful microwave then.
If you don't mind going to the garage/laundry room/etc. to use your
microwave.

In the UK we don't have that problem, my kitchen is full of 13A 240V sockets, just like every other room, it's what I plug my kettle, dishwasher, washing machine, bread maker, etc, etc into. All of which would be utterly useless on a 120V circuit. I thought the USA had 240V sockets in rooms where they're likely to be needed, like the kitchen? And where do you plug in a 2kW hoover? I plug mine in any room I'm hoovering.

If there's a 240V socket in the kitchen, it's quite likely behind the stove,
which is plugged into it.

I wasn't conveniently able to find the power consumption of my vacuum
cleaner, but I'm sure it isn't 2 kW. My floors are hardwood, so that
kind of power isn't required.

Cindy Hamilton
My central Vac

By Vac you mean vacuum cleaner? Central? WTF?

is 1680 watts rated - actually runs about 1450 and can
pull 1700 starting.

I doubt that, motors are almost a dead short on starting.

It runs on a high magnetic 15 amp brealer on 120
volts.

Brealer? Do you mean breaker?

As for 15 amps, my vacuum only needs 5 amps, as it's 1200W on 240V, thinner flex, much more convenient.

[crosspost repaired, stop ****ing about]

On Sun, 30 Dec 2018 00:28:25 -0000, Clare Snyder wrote:

On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 12:27:21 -0600, Arthur Conan Doyle
wrote:

"William Gothberg" wrote:

Why is it called an invertor?

Typical microwaves use fixed AC power to drive the magnetron. Inverter driven
magnetrons use DC power, which can be variable.
No, the inverter still produces AC - but the AC is variable. The AC
in both systems is rectified to DC for the magnetron.

The inverter produces a lot higher frequency AC than line frequency.
High frequency produces a much easier to filter DC .

Plus smaller coils/transformers/inductors required.

[crosspost repaired, stop ****ing about]

On Sun, 30 Dec 2018 11:36:53 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rot Speed,
the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH another 142 lines of stinking troll****

--
about senile Rot Speed:
"This is like having a conversation with someone with brain damage."
MID:

On 2018-12-29 5:38 p.m., William Gothberg wrote:
On Sun, 30 Dec 2018 00:28:25 -0000, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 12:27:21 -0600, Arthur Conan Doyle
wrote:

"William Gothberg" wrote:

Why is it called an invertor?

Typical microwaves use fixed AC power to drive the magnetron.
Inverter driven
magnetrons use DC power, which can be variable.
*No, the inverter still produces AC - but the AC is variable. The AC
in both systems is rectified to DC for the magnetron.

The inverter produces a lot higher frequency AC than line frequency.
High frequency produces a much easier to filter DC .

Plus smaller coils/transformers/inductors required.

[crosspost repaired, stop ****ing about]

put you dick in the microwave and see if two minutes is fast enough

On 12/29/2018 3:20 PM, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Dean Hoffman formulated on Saturday :
*Well,* the microwave cooking instructions on a lot of things say to
stir halfway
through cooking time.* That would lead me to think microwaves have the
same
issue as conventional ovens with the evenness factor.

I would expect the microwave energy to follow the inverse square law and
the energy to rapidly drop off the deeper it has to penetrate the food,
especially so if that food is a solid, with no convection currents as in
a liquid. So more power, will cook the outside too quickly and leave the
middle un-cooked or even cold.

Just like UHF TV has a harder time getting through rain, snow, trees and
walls than VHF.

On 12/29/2018 11:15 AM, Rod Speed wrote:


"William Gothberg" wrote in message
news
On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 14:23:37 -0000, Bill Gill wrote:

On 12/29/2018 7:43 AM, William Gothberg wrote:
Shouldn't we have faster microwaves by now giving out a few kW?* They
were invented decades ago.
Higher powered microwaves would require higher powered electric
outlets, probably 220VAC (in the USA).

Not a problem in Europe where everything is 240V.* Another reason you
ought to stop that low voltage crap!

Another pathetic excuse for a troll.

Do you seriously have to hard wire all your washing machines,
dishwashers, tumble dryers, etc, etc?

Nope the higher power devices plug in.

And what on earth do you do with hoovers?

They work fine on 110V, stupid.

Also it is questionable whether higher powered ovens would be
practical for use.* Getting warming times down to a couple of
seconds might not be a good idea.* More speed is not always better.

It can take 5 minutes to warm something from frozen to eating
temperature.

Hardly the end of civilisation as we know it.

I see no reason that couldn't be made into 2 minutes.


William is famous for seeing no reason.

"Bob F" wrote in message
...
On 12/29/2018 11:15 AM, Rod Speed wrote:


"William Gothberg" wrote in message
news
On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 14:23:37 -0000, Bill Gill wrote:

On 12/29/2018 7:43 AM, William Gothberg wrote:
Shouldn't we have faster microwaves by now giving out a few kW? They
were invented decades ago.
Higher powered microwaves would require higher powered electric
outlets, probably 220VAC (in the USA).

Not a problem in Europe where everything is 240V. Another reason you
ought to stop that low voltage crap!

Another pathetic excuse for a troll.

Do you seriously have to hard wire all your washing machines,
dishwashers, tumble dryers, etc, etc?

Nope the higher power devices plug in.

And what on earth do you do with hoovers?

They work fine on 110V, stupid.

Also it is questionable whether higher powered ovens would be
practical for use. Getting warming times down to a couple of
seconds might not be a good idea. More speed is not always better.

It can take 5 minutes to warm something from frozen to eating
temperature.

Hardly the end of civilisation as we know it.

I see no reason that couldn't be made into 2 minutes.


William is famous for seeing no reason.

Yeah, wanked himself completely blind long ago.

William Gothberg wrote:
On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 14:46:52 -0000, Andy Bennet wrote:

On 29/12/2018 13:43, William Gothberg wrote:
Shouldn't we have faster microwaves by now giving out a few kW?* They
were invented decades ago.

High power microwaves (1MW) are used in industry in for example ore
extraction/rock pulverizing.
1MW into a cup of water is not pretty, explodes the water contents and
breaks the cup.

I don't need a MW, but the usual 600W to 900W in domestic ovens is
pitiful.* What's wrong with 2kW?

They do not trust you poms, most of our small domestic microwaves are
1000,to 1200 watts

William Gothberg wrote:
On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 17:34:22 -0000, Arthur Conan Doyle
wrote:

"William Gothberg" wrote:

I don't need a MW, but the usual 600W to 900W in domestic ovens is
pitiful.* What's wrong with 2kW?

There are higher rating consumer units, but you have to look for them.
I had a
1.2kw range hood type that worked much better than the 900w types. I
think
commerical units (i.e. convenience store) can be found that are 1.8kw.

That said, what I find annoying is that the power control for every
consumer
microwave I've seen is duty cycle based. That is, so many seconds of
full power
followed by so many seconds of no power.

Some foods and defrosting would work much better if the actual power
level could
be adjusted. Panasonic claims to make an inverter based design, but
I'm not
convinced they actually adjust the outpout power.

I'm unsure how magnetrons work, but what's the big deal with running
them at half power?* Do they have to be on full power, and also can't be
cycled more quickly?

Anyway, I've never used a microwave on anything other than full power -
even when defrosting, which for some reason people think you have to
select "defrost".* Why?* It just takes longer.* I can defrost food much
faster on full power.

Because that is not defrosting it is cooking, Not remotely like
defrosting, methinks thou art a dill.


Another weird thing my current (Hyundai 800W) microwave does is to
switch off the heating completely for the last 15 seconds but continue
to run the fan, light, and turntable (if you've selected at least 4
minutes time).** So er like why not just remove the food 15 seconds
earlier?* Which I often do.* Funnily enough nothing ever exploded.

William Gothberg wrote:
On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 17:38:04 -0000, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 08:07:42 -0800, Bob F wrote:

On 12/29/2018 6:37 AM, trader_4 wrote:
On Saturday, December 29, 2018 at 9:23:42 AM UTC-5, Bill Gill wrote:
On 12/29/2018 7:43 AM, William Gothberg wrote:
Shouldn't we have faster microwaves by now giving out a few kW?* They
were invented decades ago.
Higher powered microwaves would require higher powered electric
outlets, probably 220VAC (in the USA).

Also it is questionable whether higher powered ovens would be
practical for use.* Getting warming times down to a couple of
seconds might not be a good idea.* More speed is not always better.

Bill

+1

That about covers it.* Not sure how useful more power would be.* For
example,
last night I was thawing out a tomato sauce in a quart plastic
container.
The Panasonic has a defrost mode that uses about 30% power and
cycles that.


It gets the 30% power by cycling the 100% power on 30% of the time.

(By the way, adjusting the level does not actually change the wattage.
It simply means the microwave will pulse on and off at its fixed wattage
until the desired level is reached.)

https://lifehacker.com/5974788/famil...-cooking-a-joy

*That was true of the first generation of Microwaves, but the current
"inverter" driver units actually CAN throttle the power. Inverter
microwaves are much better for defrosting AND cooking.

We've had ours for about 2 years now - replacing our original that we
bought in about 1985.

BIG difference (but the old one would likely still be working by the
time this one dies)

Why is it called an invertor?* I thought an invertor was a device to
increase the voltage - like running 240V devices off a 12V car battery.

Why do you persist in posting waffle about which you know absolutely
nothing, twould be better to post on subjects you know or ask and
educate yourself about the other

And why on earth would you not want to cook on full power?* I've never
had a reason to lower the power from the maximum of 800W.* I want the
meal as soon as possible!

On 29/12/2018 17:35, William Gothberg wrote:
On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 17:15:05 -0000, Bill Wright
wrote:

On 29/12/2018 16:27, William Gothberg wrote:

It can take 5 minutes to warm something from frozen to eating
temperature.* I see no reason that couldn't be made into 2 minutes.

Conduction

Which would be way faster if the water content the microwaves were
hitting was heated hotter.

But the difference in temp between the outside and the inside of the
food would be greater and this could result in food that was both over-
and under-cooked. This is why microwave ovens have low settings, so food
can cook slowly and evenly. Anyone who uses a microwave a lot will be
well aware of this. For items where convection can assist conduction
higher power can be fine, but not for large solid lumps of food.

Bill

87213 wrote:


"William Gothberg" wrote in message
news
On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 21:23:55 -0000, mike wrote:

On 12/29/2018 10:16 AM, William Gothberg wrote:
On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 17:38:04 -0000, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 08:07:42 -0800, Bob F wrote:

On 12/29/2018 6:37 AM, trader_4 wrote:
On Saturday, December 29, 2018 at 9:23:42 AM UTC-5, Bill Gill wrote:
On 12/29/2018 7:43 AM, William Gothberg wrote:
Shouldn't we have faster microwaves by now giving out a few kW?
They
were invented decades ago.
Higher powered microwaves would require higher powered electric
outlets, probably 220VAC (in the USA).

Also it is questionable whether higher powered ovens would be
practical for use.* Getting warming times down to a couple of
seconds might not be a good idea.* More speed is not always better.

Bill

+1

That about covers it.* Not sure how useful more power would be.* For
example,
last night I was thawing out a tomato sauce in a quart plastic
container.
The Panasonic has a defrost mode that uses about 30% power and
cycles that.


It gets the 30% power by cycling the 100% power on 30% of the time.

(By the way, adjusting the level does not actually change the
wattage.
It simply means the microwave will pulse on and off at its fixed
wattage
until the desired level is reached.)

https://lifehacker.com/5974788/famil...-cooking-a-joy


*That was true of the first generation of Microwaves, but the current
"inverter" driver units actually CAN throttle the power. Inverter
microwaves are much better for defrosting AND cooking.

We've had ours for about 2 years now - replacing our original that we
bought in about 1985.

BIG difference (but the old one would likely still be working by the
time this one dies)

Why is it called an invertor?* I thought an invertor was a device to
increase the voltage - like running 240V devices off a 12V car battery.

And why on earth would you not want to cook on full power?* I've never
had a reason to lower the power from the maximum of 800W.* I want the
meal as soon as possible!

There's been a lot of* nitpicking in this thread.

All microwaves reduce power by cycling between 0 and 100% power.
The relative power level is the duty factor of that on/off cycle.

Older microwaves switch the INPUT to the power transformer.
That also runs the filament.* The time to heat up the filament
is the limiting factor in how short you can make the on-time.
You get a minimum of about 10 seconds on-time.
That minimum time is plenty to make food explode.

Better microwaves are called "Inverter" microwaves.
I believe they're all licensed from Panasonic.
When I bought mine, it seemed that all the licensees had
dried up leaving Panasonic as the only locally available units.

It's my understanding that they heat the filament independently
and can have very short on-times.* Duty factor is the same as
the older microwaves, but the on-time can be much shorter.

Foods don't explode on low power like they used to.

Food is not uniform.* The effectiveness of microwaves decreases
as the food thickness increases.* There's a thermal time constant.
So, if you cook at lower average power for longer time,
you can warm the inside without seriously overcooking the outside
or having local boiling that makes food explode.

The minimum on-time really helps with that.* I haven't had food
explode since I got an Inverter microwave.* The defrost cycle
really does work well.

They're slightly more expensive, but it's worth it.

I've never exploded food on a non-invertor microwave.

Try microwaving an egg in its shell sometime.


Do it all the time, for ten seconds for one or two eggs to bring to room
temp from the fridge.



Maybe I don't cook thick enough stuff.

Yep, you vegys don't.

Or maybe they should work more on making the microwaves more even so
you don't get so many hotspots.

That's not the problem. The problem is that with something
large like a leg of lamb, the microwaves get absorbed on
the outside so that if you blast it with full power of say 2KW
you will burn the outside and leave the inside uncooked.