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Gravity fed Shower mixer ; cold from mains, hot from cylinder tank



 
 
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  #1  
Old February 15th 04, 08:12 PM
Ghazali
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Default Gravity fed Shower mixer ; cold from mains, hot from cylinder tank

Hi, posted this message on another thread, but didn't quite get any
definitive answers. Please consider:

I am thinking of running both the basin mixer and bath shower/mixer
cold taps off of the mains, whilst still having the hot from the hot
cylinder. (Hot will not be pumped).

My thinking is that I will turn up the thermostat on the hot cylinder
so that it gives much hotter temperature, and then I will only need to
use a small amount of hot flow in the mixer shower, thus utilising
mainly the increased pressure/flow of the cold mains, whilst still
getting a decent temperature.

Now I know it is not the done thing to do this, but before giving your
comments please consider the following:

1. A kithchen sink mixer also usually runs cold off the mains and hot
from the storage cylinder, yet I never hear pple complaining about
'pressure imbalance' for washing up purposes. Why is it any different
for a shower.

2. I usually have an early morning shower, at a time when no-one else
is using any other water supply in the house, so there is no risk of
any sudden temperature/flow change from, say, another tap being used
elsewhere.

3. Because of the usual daily timing of the shower, surely the mains
pressure will also be similar. (I have heard it can vary depending on
how many other pple are using it on the street, or at different times
of the day).

4. If the water is coming through a shower mixer (i.e. pre-mixed), why
would a pressure imbalance between hot and cold have any noticeable
effect?

BTW: I'm not a plumber remember - so please could any
comments/suggestions be of a sort that I can understand and relay to
my plumber in layman's terms.
Cheers
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  #2  
Old February 15th 04, 08:52 PM
Chris J Dixon
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Default Gravity fed Shower mixer ; cold from mains, hot from cylinder tank

Ghazali wrote:

I am thinking of running both the basin mixer and bath shower/mixer
cold taps off of the mains, whilst still having the hot from the hot
cylinder. (Hot will not be pumped).

1. A kithchen sink mixer also usually runs cold off the mains and hot
from the storage cylinder, yet I never hear pple complaining about
'pressure imbalance' for washing up purposes. Why is it any different
for a shower.

A kitchen mixer doesn't generally combine the two flows within
the body of the tap, it is only after leaving the nozzle that
they mix. They do not, therefore, get any chance to interact,
whatever their relative pressures.

4. If the water is coming through a shower mixer (i.e. pre-mixed), why
would a pressure imbalance between hot and cold have any noticeable
effect?

The mixer will be trying to achieve the set temperature by
opening and closing apertures for the two flows, If they are at
significantly different pressures it will be difficult to limit
the higher pressure flow to admit enough of the low pressure one.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK


Have dancing shoes, will ceilidh.
  #3  
Old February 16th 04, 09:24 AM
Christian McArdle
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Default Gravity fed Shower mixer ; cold from mains, hot from cylinder tank

I am thinking of running both the basin mixer and bath shower/mixer
cold taps off of the mains, whilst still having the hot from the hot
cylinder. (Hot will not be pumped).


This won't work. Assuming the shower mixer is pressure balancing with
sufficient range, it will throttle off the cold mains to match the crap hot
pressure, giving you a pathetic shower. If it isn't pressure balancing (i.e.
manual valve), you'll get cold out of the shower head and the cold mains
will push back up through the hot water cylinder and dump its contents
through your overflow.

Your choices:

1. Use a venturi type shower mixer.
2. Pump the hot
3. Add gravity cold supply and pump hot and cold.
4. Install mains pressure hot water.

Options 1 & 2 will provide good results at minimum cost. 3 is really not
worth it. Lots of work for no real advantage over 2. 4 would be much more
expensive still, involving the replacement of either your boiler or hot
water cylinder and should only really be considered if either need
replacement already.

Christian.


  #4  
Old February 16th 04, 11:24 AM
Ghazali
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Default Gravity fed Shower mixer ; cold from mains, hot from cylinder tank

Chris J Dixon wrote in message . ..

4. If the water is coming through a shower mixer (i.e. pre-mixed), why
would a pressure imbalance between hot and cold have any noticeable
effect?

The mixer will be trying to achieve the set temperature by
opening and closing apertures for the two flows, If they are at
significantly different pressures it will be difficult to limit
the higher pressure flow to admit enough of the low pressure one.

Chris


Right, so the if higher pressure will be the cold, that stops me
getting scalded, which is what I'm most worried about.

If there is a concern that not enough of the lower pressure flow (in
this case the hot) will be admitted surely this will be sorted
(admittedly with a bit of initial fine tuning) by setting a high
enough temperature for the hot on the cylinder thermostat.

So far, this is sounding like a good idea......Would someone please
provide a convincing argument as to WHY I DEFINITELY should NOT try
this !

It sounds like a win win situation, (Especially as under my current
arrangement (cold fed from storage tank in loft) the hot cylinder
thermostat is set to its minimum setting, and even then I only need to
set the mixer flow very slightly to hot to get a comfortable
temperature).
  #5  
Old February 16th 04, 11:45 AM
Christian McArdle
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Default Gravity fed Shower mixer ; cold from mains, hot from cylinder tank

So far, this is sounding like a good idea......Would someone please
provide a convincing argument as to WHY I DEFINITELY should NOT try
this !


The valve will reduce the pressure to that of the hot water supply. You will
get a drizzle out of the shower head. It will be utterly pathetic and no
better than a normal gravity shower, possibly with only about 2 feet head,
if the shower is on the floor below the tank. If you don't have a pressure
balancing valve, the shower will run cold and your hot water will leave the
building via the header tank overflow.

Christian.



  #6  
Old February 16th 04, 12:22 PM
IMM
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Default Gravity fed Shower mixer ; cold from mains, hot from cylinder tank


"Ghazali" wrote in message
m...
Chris J Dixon wrote in message

. ..

4. If the water is coming through a shower mixer (i.e. pre-mixed), why
would a pressure imbalance between hot and cold have any noticeable
effect?

The mixer will be trying to achieve the set temperature by
opening and closing apertures for the two flows, If they are at
significantly different pressures it will be difficult to limit
the higher pressure flow to admit enough of the low pressure one.

Chris


Right, so the if higher pressure will be the cold, that stops me
getting scalded, which is what I'm most worried about.

If there is a concern that not enough of the lower pressure flow (in
this case the hot) will be admitted surely this will be sorted
(admittedly with a bit of initial fine tuning) by setting a high
enough temperature for the hot on the cylinder thermostat.

So far, this is sounding like a good idea......Would someone please
provide a convincing argument as to WHY I DEFINITELY should NOT try
this !

It sounds like a win win situation, (Especially as under my current
arrangement (cold fed from storage tank in loft) the hot cylinder
thermostat is set to its minimum setting, and even then I only need to
set the mixer flow very slightly to hot to get a comfortable
temperature).


This sia lose, lose, situation. The pressure at the shower mixer should be
about equal,otherwise the high pressure cold may work its way bacj up the
not pipe into the cylinder. temperature adjustmnent is applaing giving
scalds.

Best use on the basin hot from cylidner and cold from loft tank with a low
pressure mixer; not for mains pressure. On the shower use a venturi, or
somethimes called hydro, shower mixer. This takes cold from the mains and
hot from the low pressure cylidner giving a power type of shower. B&Q now
sell them. Ideal Standard Trevi Boost is an up market version. The kitchen
mixer? Get a mixer to suit; low hot and high cold pressure These are
commonly available. The bath? Hot from the cylinder and cold from the loft
tank, usings a low pressure mixer.



 




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