http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-39675418

I thought we had already done that.


--
Adam

ARW wrote:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-39675418
I thought we had already done that.

I thought we'd had "more solar than coal" one bright saturday?

On Saturday, 22 April 2017 07:29:26 UTC+1, Andy Burns wrote:
ARW wrote:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-39675418
I thought we had already done that.

I thought we'd had "more solar than coal" one bright saturday?

I don't see how that can be instantaneously measured.

On Sat, 22 Apr 2017 07:30:48 +0100, Andy Burns
wrote:

ARW wrote:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-39675418
I thought we had already done that.

I thought we'd had "more solar than coal" one bright saturday?
There was a subtle difference this time, no coal at all and it was
classed as on a "working Day" by the BBC thereby giving added fuel to
the argument that many 9 to 5 fivers in cushy jobs don't consider all
those people providing,services , healthcare, and vast numbers of the
self employed keeping their heads above water are actually working at
weekends and are doing it for fun.

G.Harman

On 22/04/17 07:30, Andy Burns wrote:
ARW wrote:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-39675418
I thought we had already done that.

I thought we'd had "more solar than coal" one bright saturday?

we had that some time ago, and there was a brief couple of hours in
2016 whene there was no coal, but this is a no coal *day*, and the
greens are wetting their pants thinking its terribly wonderful.,

Wait till be get a 'no electricity day'. The sad part about that is that
Gridwatch wont be able to record it.



--
Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as
foolish, and by the rulers as useful.

(Seneca the Younger, 65 AD)

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Andy Burns wrote:

ARW wrote:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-39675418
I thought we had already done that.

I thought we'd had "more solar than coal" one bright saturday?

we had that some time ago,

I was mis-remembering the BBC article from March when

"For the first time ever, the amount of electricity demanded by
homes and businesses in the afternoon on Saturday was lower than
it was in the night, because solar panels on rooftops and in
fields cut demand so much"

and there was a brief couple of hours in 2016 whene there was no
coal, but this is a no coal *day*, and the greens are wetting their
pants thinking its terribly wonderful.,

Wait till be get a 'no electricity day'. The sad part about that is that
Gridwatch wont be able to record it.

What? Not running in a datacentre with n+1 UPS and standby generators?

On 22/04/17 09:51, Chris Hogg wrote:
On Sat, 22 Apr 2017 09:36:49 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

On 22/04/17 07:30, Andy Burns wrote:
ARW wrote:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-39675418
I thought we had already done that.

I thought we'd had "more solar than coal" one bright saturday?

we had that some time ago, and there was a brief couple of hours in
2016 whene there was no coal, but this is a no coal *day*, and the
greens are wetting their pants thinking its terribly wonderful.,

Wait till be get a 'no electricity day'. The sad part about that is that
Gridwatch wont be able to record it.

But is it actually a 'no coal' day? Are there not coal-fired power
stations still burning coal as part of the STOR/spinning reserve? Or
is NG now relying solely on rapid start-up OCGT and banks of diesels
to cope with spikes in demand?

No I think it genuinely was.

All the big coal plant is shut for the summer, as the running hours
restrictions means they need to choose when to run. There seems to be a
360MW plant back up, which is all there was before yeterday. so my guess
is it needed a bit of maintenance and announced it would shut down for a
day.

STOR is not needed at this time of year - CCGT exists to fully cover any
margin requirements and what hydro there is can meet unexpected
shortfalls in demand for an hour or two. I would GUESS that a lot of
CCGT plant runs at 90% or so, so that its nicely efficient, but there is
a 10% margin there if needs be.

I can't remember how the heat rate varies with output power, but I am
pretty sure that CCGT doesn't lose too much if throttled back a little

Diesel and STOR are last resorts. hydro, CCGT and OCGT outrank them in
terms of cost effectiveness. So they are used wherever possible.
The reality is the grid is powered by gas, with nuclear underpinning it,
and coal coming in to baseload it in winter.

Short term peaks are net with hydro,

Renewable energy? pain in the arse. Increases the need for short term
balancing and costs a ruddy fortune. Should be banned, not subsidised.



--
"Women actually are capable of being far more than the feminists will
let them."

En el artículo , ARW aXXXwadsworth@blueyond
er.co.uk escribió:

I thought we had already done that.

We had. For 19 hours, not 24.

Notable that the link at the bottom is to Gridwatch.co.uk, not the
swivel-eyed one's gridwatch.templar.

--
(\_/)
(='.'=) "Between two evils, I always pick
(")_(") the one I never tried before." - Mae West

On Sat, 22 Apr 2017 10:40:57 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:


All the big coal plant is shut for the summer,

So all four boilers at Ratclffe on Soar have been turned off? I'll
have to have a look next time I'm passing the A453, though last time I
did notice the coal heap looked low, but that in itself is not
unusual.

as the running hours
restrictions means they need to choose when to run.

Can you expand? Does this mean for instance ok during the day and not
during the night or a limit to the number of hours per year?

They've spent an awful lot of money in the past years trying to keep
it up to standards. Will Brexit change anything?

--
AnthonyL

In article ,
wrote:
On Sat, 22 Apr 2017 07:30:48 +0100, Andy Burns
wrote:

ARW wrote:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-39675418
I thought we had already done that.

I thought we'd had "more solar than coal" one bright saturday?
There was a subtle difference this time, no coal at all and it was
classed as on a "working Day" by the BBC thereby giving added fuel to
the argument that many 9 to 5 fivers in cushy jobs don't consider all
those people providing,services , healthcare, and vast numbers of the
self employed keeping their heads above water are actually working at
weekends and are doing it for fun.

at one point in the 1960s, there was new cleaners' contact at Television
Centre. As a result the toilets were only cleaned on Monday to Friday. No
matter that the studios were busiest at the weekend!

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England

On 22/04/17 10:36, Andy Burns wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Andy Burns wrote:

ARW wrote:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-39675418
I thought we had already done that.

I thought we'd had "more solar than coal" one bright saturday?

we had that some time ago,

I was mis-remembering the BBC article from March when

"For the first time ever, the amount of electricity demanded by
homes and businesses in the afternoon on Saturday was lower than
it was in the night, because solar panels on rooftops and in
fields cut demand so much"

and there was a brief couple of hours in 2016 whene there was no
coal, but this is a no coal *day*, and the greens are wetting their
pants thinking its terribly wonderful.,

Wait till be get a 'no electricity day'. The sad part about that is that
Gridwatch wont be able to record it.

What? Not running in a datacentre with n+1 UPS and standby generators?

I am sure the server is, but whether it could do 24 hours without power
is another matter, BUT if the grid at large goes down, can you guarantee
all the meters in and around powers stations and the grid and the UK
internet itself would stay up? I doubt it.


I hope someone somewhere at GCHQ or MI sioomething or other hgas run a
detailed scenario of what actually would be left functional if we had a
national power cut.

My guess is apart from a few MILSPEC comms links and a red telephone
shoved um T Mays bottom, 'not much' is the answer.

All supermarket food spoilt.
No transactions possible except cash.
NO working petrol or diesel pumps.
No road transport after a day or so
No water
No sewage.
No central heating or hot water
No lights
No radio
No TV
No Internet
No mobile phones.
(Landlines would work for a bit, if you had a POTS to plug in)

Never mind the Greens, it only takes half a dozen shaped charges on a
few major transmission line pylons to trip the lot I would think.

Done properly should take out 50% of all city dwellers in a few days



--
Canada is all right really, though not for the whole weekend.

"Saki"

On 22/04/17 10:51, Mike Tomlinson wrote:
En el artÃ*culo , ARW aXXXwadsworth@blueyond
er.co.uk escribió:

I thought we had already done that.

We had. For 19 hours, not 24.

Notable that the link at the bottom is to Gridwatch.co.uk, not the
swivel-eyed one's gridwatch.templar.

No that link was on the BBC business site

Of course gridwatch.co.uk is a complete carbon copy rip off.

designed to make money, not to collect fantastical data to help towards
a better energy policy.

So naturally you would prefer it.


--
The New Left are the people they warned you about.

AnthonyL wrote:

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

the running hours restrictions means they need to choose when to
run.

Can you expand? Does this mean for instance ok during the day and not
during the night or a limit to the number of hours per year?

A total of 20,000 hours per plant since 2007 for plants when the LCPD
directive was introduced, but only for those plants which decided not to
fit flue gas scrubbers (though Ratcliffe did fit scrubbers, so isn't
affected).

On 22/04/17 10:56, AnthonyL wrote:
On Sat, 22 Apr 2017 10:40:57 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:


All the big coal plant is shut for the summer,

So all four boilers at Ratclffe on Soar have been turned off? I'll
have to have a look next time I'm passing the A453, though last time I
did notice the coal heap looked low, but that in itself is not
unusual.

as the running hours
restrictions means they need to choose when to run.

Can you expand? Does this mean for instance ok during the day and not
during the night or a limit to the number of hours per year?

They've spent an awful lot of money in the past years trying to keep
it up to standards. Will Brexit change anything?

https://www.utilitywise.com/2016/11/...2025-deadline/

is pretty comprehensive

the IED (industrial emissions directive) is the EU directive at the
heart of it all as reflected into the Large Combustion Plant directive
http://ec.europa.eu/environment/arch...egislation.htm

Its typically fudged ****e. What is says is that power stations must
reduce emissions, either by fitting expensive crap to their stacks or
by *running less hours*.

Most coal power stations are simply running less hours and will close as
its not worth the cost of retrofitting scrubbers when the UKs avowed
intention is no coal by 2025 or something.

I did read through a DECC policy document once on this. What it boiled
down to was that any plant, new or old, had to produce only as much
emissions as was justified by its *nameplate capacity*. The simple way
to do that is to run it at a lower capacity factor. That is: build a 3GW
power station and run it at 1GW average. That complied. Building a 1GW
power station and running it flat out did not!

It's insane, but that's what happens when you let lefty****s like Chris
Huhne or the EU or the greens near energy policy.

That's why te EU has a policy on increasing renewable energy, but no
policy on actually reducing carbon emissions.

That's why I voted to leave the bloody thing.



--
Canada is all right really, though not for the whole weekend.

"Saki"

On Sat, 22 Apr 2017 10:51:39 +0100, Mike Tomlinson wrote:

En el artÃ*culo , ARW aXXXwadsworth@blueyond
er.co.uk escribió:

I thought we had already done that.

We had. For 19 hours, not 24.

Notable that the link at the bottom is to Gridwatch.co.uk, not the
swivel-eyed one's gridwatch.templar.

The one on the live commentary at 13:59 *is* to templar.

--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

On 22/04/17 12:02, Bob Eager wrote:
On Sat, 22 Apr 2017 10:51:39 +0100, Mike Tomlinson wrote:

En el artÃ*culo , ARW aXXXwadsworth@blueyond
er.co.uk escribió:

I thought we had already done that.

We had. For 19 hours, not 24.

Notable that the link at the bottom is to Gridwatch.co.uk, not the
swivel-eyed one's gridwatch.templar.

The one on the live commentary at 13:59 *is* to templar.

Ssh. Don't tell him that, he so desperately wants me to be a failure.


--
If I had all the money I've spent on drink...
...I'd spend it on drink.

Sir Henry (at Rawlinson's End)

On Sat, 22 Apr 2017 13:52:02 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 22/04/17 12:02, Bob Eager wrote:
On Sat, 22 Apr 2017 10:51:39 +0100, Mike Tomlinson wrote:

En el artÃ*culo , ARW
aXXXwadsworth@blueyond er.co.uk escribió:

I thought we had already done that.

We had. For 19 hours, not 24.

Notable that the link at the bottom is to Gridwatch.co.uk, not the
swivel-eyed one's gridwatch.templar.

The one on the live commentary at 13:59 *is* to templar.

Ssh. Don't tell him that, he so desperately wants me to be a failure.

I did send a complaining tweet.

--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

So did I. Is this some new broom stuck on watching a web site?

I do feel though we are still sailing close to the wind a little in this
country power wise.

Its going to be bitterly cold next week.
Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"ARW" wrote in message
news
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-39675418

I thought we had already done that.


--
Adam

On 4/22/2017 11:06 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 22/04/17 10:36, Andy Burns wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Andy Burns wrote:

ARW wrote:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-39675418
I thought we had already done that.

I thought we'd had "more solar than coal" one bright saturday?

we had that some time ago,

I was mis-remembering the BBC article from March when

"For the first time ever, the amount of electricity demanded by
homes and businesses in the afternoon on Saturday was lower than
it was in the night, because solar panels on rooftops and in
fields cut demand so much"

and there was a brief couple of hours in 2016 whene there was no
coal, but this is a no coal *day*, and the greens are wetting their
pants thinking its terribly wonderful.,

Wait till be get a 'no electricity day'. The sad part about that is that
Gridwatch wont be able to record it.

What? Not running in a datacentre with n+1 UPS and standby generators?

I am sure the server is, but whether it could do 24 hours without power
is another matter, BUT if the grid at large goes down, can you guarantee
all the meters in and around powers stations and the grid and the UK
internet itself would stay up? I doubt it.


I hope someone somewhere at GCHQ or MI sioomething or other hgas run a
detailed scenario of what actually would be left functional if we had a
national power cut.

My guess is apart from a few MILSPEC comms links and a red telephone
shoved um T Mays bottom, 'not much' is the answer.

All supermarket food spoilt.
No transactions possible except cash.
NO working petrol or diesel pumps.
No road transport after a day or so
No water
No sewage.
No central heating or hot water
No lights
No radio
No TV
No Internet
No mobile phones.
(Landlines would work for a bit, if you had a POTS to plug in)

Never mind the Greens, it only takes half a dozen shaped charges on a
few major transmission line pylons to trip the lot I would think.

Done properly should take out 50% of all city dwellers in a few days



I often wondered why the IRA never had a go at this. (ISTR there might
have been one sabotage/terrorism attempt a fair while ago).

I don't doubt that the SAS or the Royal Engineers or demolition
specialists could do it, but I suspect it might not be quite as easy as
you think. In any case it is a pretty obvious target, and we don't know
what security there might be these days. Also I suspect that a single
downed tower could be replaced in a day.

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

All supermarket food spoilt.

most supermarkets have standby generators

No transactions possible except cash.
NO working petrol or diesel pumps.
except those at supermarkets?

No road transport after a day or so
No water
No sewage.

Gravity will help

No central heating or hot water
No lights

I have candles -= don't you.

No radio

Most radio transmitters have standby generators.

No TV
No Internet
No mobile phones.
(Landlines would work for a bit, if you had a POTS to plug in)

Never mind the Greens, it only takes half a dozen shaped charges on a
few major transmission line pylons to trip the lot I would think.

Done properly should take out 50% of all city dwellers in a few days

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England

On Saturday, 22 April 2017 17:19:56 UTC+1, charles wrote:
All supermarket food spoilt.
most supermarkets have standby generators

Which are tested how often, and run for how long? Also how long can individual branches continue if they're off-line from head office computers for reordering stock?

How long can farms go with no mains electricity for milking and milk cooling/storage? I know they usually have generators for short periods.

No water
No sewage.
Gravity will help

In some locations; far from all. Where gravity causes the sewage to run into the water supply, things could get very nasty very quickly.

No radio
Most radio transmitters have standby generators.

But do most people have battery radios any more?

(Landlines would work for a bit, if you had a POTS to plug in)

Big red "power fail" phone :-) Couldn't afford to make many phone calls on it though (or maybe the billing computers would be down)

Owain

On 22/04/17 17:14, newshound wrote:
On 4/22/2017 11:06 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 22/04/17 10:36, Andy Burns wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Andy Burns wrote:

ARW wrote:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-39675418
I thought we had already done that.

I thought we'd had "more solar than coal" one bright saturday?

we had that some time ago,

I was mis-remembering the BBC article from March when

"For the first time ever, the amount of electricity demanded by
homes and businesses in the afternoon on Saturday was lower than
it was in the night, because solar panels on rooftops and in
fields cut demand so much"

and there was a brief couple of hours in 2016 whene there was no
coal, but this is a no coal *day*, and the greens are wetting their
pants thinking its terribly wonderful.,

Wait till be get a 'no electricity day'. The sad part about that is
that
Gridwatch wont be able to record it.

What? Not running in a datacentre with n+1 UPS and standby generators?

I am sure the server is, but whether it could do 24 hours without
power is another matter, BUT if the grid at large goes down, can you
guarantee all the meters in and around powers stations and the grid
and the UK internet itself would stay up? I doubt it.


I hope someone somewhere at GCHQ or MI sioomething or other hgas run a
detailed scenario of what actually would be left functional if we had
a national power cut.

My guess is apart from a few MILSPEC comms links and a red telephone
shoved um T Mays bottom, 'not much' is the answer.

All supermarket food spoilt.
No transactions possible except cash.
NO working petrol or diesel pumps.
No road transport after a day or so
No water
No sewage.
No central heating or hot water
No lights
No radio
No TV
No Internet
No mobile phones.
(Landlines would work for a bit, if you had a POTS to plug in)

Never mind the Greens, it only takes half a dozen shaped charges on a
few major transmission line pylons to trip the lot I would think.

Done properly should take out 50% of all city dwellers in a few days



I often wondered why the IRA never had a go at this. (ISTR there might
have been one sabotage/terrorism attempt a fair while ago).

I don't doubt that the SAS or the Royal Engineers or demolition
specialists could do it, but I suspect it might not be quite as easy as
you think. In any case it is a pretty obvious target, and we don't know
what security there might be these days. Also I suspect that a single
downed tower could be replaced in a day.

you would take out half a dozen round te country.


And no, not in a day for a big pylon. More like a week working full
emergency.

I suspect they would lay a cable along the surface around the downed
tower first.

Given proper mobile phone coverage and access to electricity...oh dear.

The point is the repairs would be undertaken from a nation already
crippled, and the grid would need to be black started.



--
"If you dont read the news paper, you are un-informed. If you read the
news paper, you are mis-informed."

Mark Twain

On 22/04/17 17:19, charles wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

All supermarket food spoilt.

most supermarkets have standby generators
You reckon?

No transactions possible except cash.
NO working petrol or diesel pumps.
except those at supermarkets?

No road transport after a day or so
No water
No sewage.

Gravity will help

No, it wont. Water needs to be pumped up to where its stored and so too
dies sewage


No central heating or hot water
No lights

I have candles -= don't you.

No.

No radio

Most radio transmitters have standby generators.

You reckon?

No TV
No Internet
No mobile phones.
(Landlines would work for a bit, if you had a POTS to plug in)

Never mind the Greens, it only takes half a dozen shaped charges on a
few major transmission line pylons to trip the lot I would think.

Done properly should take out 50% of all city dwellers in a few days


All this standby generator stuff - I doubt most places have enough
diesel for more than 48 hours tops.


--
"If you dont read the news paper, you are un-informed. If you read the
news paper, you are mis-informed."

Mark Twain

On 22/04/2017 10:56, charles wrote:
In article ,
wrote:
On Sat, 22 Apr 2017 07:30:48 +0100, Andy Burns
wrote:

ARW wrote:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-39675418
I thought we had already done that.

I thought we'd had "more solar than coal" one bright saturday?


at one point in the 1960s, there was new cleaners' contact at Television
Centre. As a result the toilets were only cleaned on Monday to Friday. No
matter that the studios were busiest at the weekend!

No ****, Sherlock !!.

In article , charles
scribeth thus
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

All supermarket food spoilt.

most supermarkets have standby generators

No transactions possible except cash.
NO working petrol or diesel pumps.
except those at supermarkets?

No road transport after a day or so
No water
No sewage.

Gravity will help

No central heating or hot water
No lights

I have candles -= don't you.

No radio

Most radio transmitters have standby generators.

Do they ?. And do they test them and keep the Oil topped up and I can
tell you a tale of some 'ner do wells about that!...

Course it might be easier to bring down a TV ,mast or two;!..


No TV
No Internet
No mobile phones.
(Landlines would work for a bit, if you had a POTS to plug in)

Never mind the Greens, it only takes half a dozen shaped charges on a
few major transmission line pylons to trip the lot I would think.

Done properly should take out 50% of all city dwellers in a few days


--
Tony Sayer

En el artículo , Bob Eager
escribió:

The one on the live commentary at 13:59 *is* to templar.

The article I read (at the same URL given earlier) was to .co.uk.

Not that it matters.

--
(\_/)
(='.'=) "Between two evils, I always pick
(")_(") the one I never tried before." - Mae West

On 23/04/17 05:19, Mike Tomlinson wrote:
En el artÃ*culo , Bob Eager
escribió:

The one on the live commentary at 13:59 *is* to templar.

The article I read (at the same URL given earlier) was to .co.uk.

Not that it matters.

two articles, two different links


--
"When one man dies it's a tragedy. When thousands die it's statistics."

Josef Stalin

On Saturday, 22 April 2017 17:57:55 UTC+1, wrote:
On Saturday, 22 April 2017 17:19:56 UTC+1, charles wrote:
All supermarket food spoilt.
most supermarkets have standby generators

Which are tested how often, and run for how long? Also how long can individual branches continue if they're off-line from head office computers for reordering stock?

How long can farms go with no mains electricity for milking and milk cooling/storage? I know they usually have generators for short periods.

No water
No sewage.
Gravity will help

In some locations; far from all. Where gravity causes the sewage to run into the water supply, things could get very nasty very quickly.

No radio
Most radio transmitters have standby generators.

But do most people have battery radios any more?


They have cars with radios.

On Sunday, 23 April 2017 07:40:20 UTC+1, harry wrote:
But do most people have battery radios any more?
They have cars with radios.

In 2.4-children-in-suburbia-land they do.

In cities where a parking space costs more than my flat they don't. And cities are where the rioting and looting will start.

Owain

In article ,
wrote:
In cities where a parking space costs more than my flat they don't. And
cities are where the rioting and looting will start.

Trying to think of a UK city with no car parking. I live in London, and
even most council estates have car parking. There may be the odd area
where it is very expensive to park a car - but Mayfair etc isn't usually
where riots start.

--
*Of course I'm against sin; I'm against anything that I'm too old to enjoy.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
wrote:
In cities where a parking space costs more than my flat they don't. And
cities are where the rioting and looting will start.

Trying to think of a UK city with no car parking. I live in London, and
even most council estates have car parking. There may be the odd area
where it is very expensive to park a car - but Mayfair etc isn't usually
where riots start.

I suspect that Oxford has no public car parks in the city. It was the
firsty place to start Park & Ride w9th the car parks on the edge,

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England

On Sat, 22 Apr 2017 17:19:45 +0100, charles wrote:

All supermarket food spoilt.

most supermarkets have standby generators

They may well have to keep the chillers and freezers running and core
IT.

No transactions possible except cash.
NO working petrol or diesel pumps.
except those at supermarkets?

In my experience loss of mains power forces closure of nearly all
shops, supermarkets and petrol stations. The POS equipment is not
"core IT".

No road transport after a day or so
No water
No sewage.

Gravity will help

A lot of the water supply is gravity. Sewage tends to need pumping,
if only to get it from the buried pipes to the surface treatment
works.

No central heating or hot water
No lights

I have candles -= don't you.

Local power cut here only affects the CH/HW until I drag the genset
out or run out of red. Lighting is mainly gas lanterns, candles are a
crap and risky source of light.

No radio

Most radio transmitters have standby generators.

You'd like to think so, I have my doubts.

A complete grid blackout is highly unlikely. They'd load shed and
island to protect generation and supplies. Of course near
simultanously felling a pylon or three about the country that are
feeding the grid with the ouput of a few of the nukes would present a
serious restoration problem and what the automatics did in trying to
protect the system might be "interesting". Humans would be to slow to
react...

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Sun, 23 Apr 2017 12:25:17 +0100 (BST), "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:

On Sat, 22 Apr 2017 17:19:45 +0100, charles wrote:

All supermarket food spoilt.

most supermarkets have standby generators

They may well have to keep the chillers and freezers running and core
IT.

No transactions possible except cash.
NO working petrol or diesel pumps.
except those at supermarkets?

In my experience loss of mains power forces closure of nearly all
shops, supermarkets and petrol stations. T
No water
No sewage.

Gravity will help

A lot of the water supply is gravity. Sewage tends to need pumping,
if only to get it from the buried pipes to the surface treatment
works.

People who still have a loft tank may become popular with those who
have modernised and rely on direct mains pressure.

G.Harman

On 23/04/17 12:25, Dave Liquorice wrote:
Humans would be to slow to
react...

Average time of a person to react to a threat: 300ms.

Average time for the EU to react to a threat: 3 years.


--
Gun Control: The law that ensures that only criminals have guns.

On 23/04/17 15:41, wrote:
On Sun, 23 Apr 2017 12:25:17 +0100 (BST), "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:

On Sat, 22 Apr 2017 17:19:45 +0100, charles wrote:

All supermarket food spoilt.

most supermarkets have standby generators

They may well have to keep the chillers and freezers running and core
IT.

No transactions possible except cash.
NO working petrol or diesel pumps.
except those at supermarkets?

In my experience loss of mains power forces closure of nearly all
shops, supermarkets and petrol stations. T
No water
No sewage.

Gravity will help

A lot of the water supply is gravity. Sewage tends to need pumping,
if only to get it from the buried pipes to the surface treatment
works.

People who still have a loft tank may become popular with those who
have modernised and rely on direct mains pressure.

for about 40 minutes till the tank runs dry

G.Harman



--
Gun Control: The law that ensures that only criminals have guns.

On Sun, 23 Apr 2017 16:13:43 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:



A lot of the water supply is gravity. Sewage tends to need pumping,
if only to get it from the buried pipes to the surface treatment
works.

People who still have a loft tank may become popular with those who
have modernised and rely on direct mains pressure.

for about 40 minutes till the tank runs dry

G.Harman

Well you wouldn't want to be too popular that is true.
It should give a bit of reserve if kept for ones own use and isn't
wasted by flushing the bog .
As you hinted it would be city and town dwellers especially those in
flats who are really dependent on mains water not failing.
Those in rural areas or with gardens may be better off if they have
thought about it, Water butts can be a source of water for flushing
the bog or you could just dig a hole in the garden if pushed.
We have about 2500 litres of rainwater stored here , and after that
there is the wildlife pond with about 6000 litres.
it can't be that poisonous if newts are living in it so a boil on a
fire should make it acceptable compared to dying of thirst.

G.Harman

On 23/04/17 16:31, wrote:
On Sun, 23 Apr 2017 16:13:43 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:



A lot of the water supply is gravity. Sewage tends to need pumping,
if only to get it from the buried pipes to the surface treatment
works.

People who still have a loft tank may become popular with those who
have modernised and rely on direct mains pressure.

for about 40 minutes till the tank runs dry

G.Harman

Well you wouldn't want to be too popular that is true.
It should give a bit of reserve if kept for ones own use and isn't
wasted by flushing the bog .
As you hinted it would be city and town dwellers especially those in
flats who are really dependent on mains water not failing.
Those in rural areas or with gardens may be better off if they have
thought about it, Water butts can be a source of water for flushing
the bog or you could just dig a hole in the garden if pushed.
We have about 2500 litres of rainwater stored here , and after that
there is the wildlife pond with about 6000 litres.
it can't be that poisonous if newts are living in it so a boil on a
fire should make it acceptable compared to dying of thirst.

G.Harman

The problem is that all water and sewage needs to be pumped.

Unless you live near dams.

Or up high. London all sewage is pumped. All water is pumped. London
with no electricity would become (more of) a cesspit (than it already is).


--
Truth welcomes investigation because truth knows investigation will lead
to converts. It is deception that uses all the other techniques.

In article ,
wrote:
A lot of the water supply is gravity. Sewage tends to need pumping,
if only to get it from the buried pipes to the surface treatment
works.

People who still have a loft tank may become popular with those who
have modernised and rely on direct mains pressure.

Most have 'modernised' because that was easiest for their plumber.

--
*What do little birdies see when they get knocked unconscious? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.