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UK diy (uk.d-i-y) For the discussion of all topics related to diy (do-it-yourself) in the UK. All levels of experience and proficency are welcome to join in to ask questions or offer solutions.

New Woodburner Regulations



 
 
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  #61  
Old April 21st 17, 12:52 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Posts: 29,250
Default New Woodburner Regulations

In article ,
Huge wrote:
On 2017-04-21, Andy Burns wrote:
Andrew wrote:

new woodburner regulations


Speaking of new regulations (and not really needing another thread) I
hadn't realised that we are in a transition phase for cable
regulations, which will end in July from when all power/data/fibre
cables need to be "CPR compliant" and tested/marked in addition to
their existing BASEC etc compliance.


The executor of my estate will likely be dealing with the red/black
cable I have "in stock" ...


Got a tip for you, Huge. Blue equals black and brown red. You can now use
new cable safely. Print this out and keep it for future reference.

--
*There's two theories to arguing with a woman. Neither one works *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
Ads
  #62  
Old April 21st 17, 12:55 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Posts: 1,495
Default New Woodburner Regulations

In article , Capitol
wrote:
Andy Burns wrote:
Dave Plowman wrote:

I'd suggest to read up about the reasons behind such legislation.
Rather than making up your own.


Are you suggesting that saving a few hundred watts for a few minutes
per month is distinguishable from noise in the 2750 TWh EU electricity
budget?

I'd even agree that lighting is a worthwhile target, but that maybe
they pushed it a few years too early, how many subsidised CFLs lurk in
the backs of cupboards when decent LEDs were only a few years down the
track?


Hindsight is a wonderful thing. More to the point, why should we reduce
energy consumption?


presumably because creating energy has costs to the environment

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
  #63  
Old April 21st 17, 12:56 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Posts: 1,367
Default New Woodburner Regulations

Capitol wrote:

Some of my CFLs are 30years old. The modern CFLs die like flies IME.


Some of mine are close to that, they have been relegated to the loft
though ...


  #64  
Old April 21st 17, 12:57 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Posts: 29,250
Default New Woodburner Regulations

In article ,
charles wrote:
PAL was developed at the request of the European Broadcast Union. The
previous colour TV system, NTSC, had undergone extensive trials by the
BBC etc and been found lacking.


Not quite true. The BBC found NTSC quite useable - provided it was
treated properly. A test was made by sending am NTSC signal by
landline/microwave to Moscow & back - with no significant degradation.
The BBC backed NTSC, but when the majority of countries opted for PAL,
they used that system. One obvious indication of NTSC as the BBC's
choice was the high stability crystals needed for colour reference were
built for NTSC.


That is not the story we were told at BBC ETD. NTSC was simply not
consistent enough for domestic use in practice.

--
*If a pig loses its voice, is it disgruntled? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
  #65  
Old April 21st 17, 01:01 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Posts: 29,250
Default New Woodburner Regulations

In article ,
Andy Burns wrote:
RJH wrote:


Andy Burns wrote:

Are you suggesting that saving a few hundred watts for a few minutes
per month is distinguishable from noise in the 2750 TWh EU
electricity budget?


Most households have a vacuum - so you have to multiply your 'few
hundred watts' by at least twenty million for the UK to begin to
understand potential savings. And then multiply that figure by 27.


Even if all 220 million EU households bought a new vacuum that used 400W
less than their old one and used it for 2 hours a month, it would still
be 2749.8 TWh


So even less point having a light bulb that saves 40 watts?

And you seem to be making the common mistake that people are being forced
to rush out and buy a more efficient vacuum, which they're not. So why are
you so against them having a more efficient one available when they do
need a replacement?

Mind, the 'few minutes' does suggest interesting priorities :-)


Absolutely!


--
*Be more or less specific *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
  #66  
Old April 21st 17, 01:07 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Posts: 8,009
Default New Woodburner Regulations

The author has marked this message not to be archived. This post will be deleted on April 28, 2017.

In article , Dave Plowman (News)
wrote:

In article ,
charles wrote:
PAL was developed at the request of the European Broadcast Union. The
previous colour TV system, NTSC, had undergone extensive trials by the
BBC etc and been found lacking.


Not quite true. The BBC found NTSC quite useable - provided it was
treated properly. A test was made by sending am NTSC signal by
landline/microwave to Moscow & back - with no significant degradation.
The BBC backed NTSC, but when the majority of countries opted for PAL,
they used that system. One obvious indication of NTSC as the BBC's
choice was the high stability crystals needed for colour reference were
built for NTSC.


That is not the story we were told at BBC ETD. NTSC was simply not
consistent enough for domestic use in practice.


I found it relatively poor when I lived in the US. And you got a lot of
sound-on-vision and vice versa on cheap sets. Plus as has been pointed
out, you needed a tint knob.

--
Anyone who slaps a 'this page is best viewed with Browser X' label on
a Web page appears to be yearning for the bad old days, before the Web,
when you had very little chance of reading a document written on another
computer, another word processor, or another network. -- Tim Berners-Lee
  #67  
Old April 21st 17, 01:12 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
NY
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Posts: 676
Default New Woodburner Regulations

"Capitol" wrote in message
o.uk...
Andy Burns wrote:
Dave Plowman wrote:

I'd suggest to read up about the reasons behind such legislation. Rather
than making up your own.


Are you suggesting that saving a few hundred watts for a few minutes per
month is distinguishable from noise in the 2750 TWh EU electricity
budget?

I'd even agree that lighting is a worthwhile target, but that maybe they
pushed it a few years too early, how many subsidised CFLs lurk in the
backs of cupboards when decent LEDs were only a few years down the track?


I'd always judged LED lamps by the GU10 spotlights that we bought to replace
the tungsten ones in our bathroom and in the kitchen light fitting. They
tend to produce dimmer lighting and in a more restricted angle - definitely
not as good as 60W tungsten bulbs.

Then we bought a few Philips Hue lights. Leaving aside the fact that they
can be adjusted to various colours (we'd probably buy fixed-colour ones when
it came to replace the daylight CFLs that we have through the house) they
are very bright - most impressive. I'm not sure what the equivalent tungsten
wattage is, but I'd estimate somewhere between the equivalent of 60W and
100W, while using 7W of power.

It's a shame that a lot of the smaller bulbs (eg candle) are only available
in screw fittings, which means using a bayonet to screw adaptor (increasing
the length) in an existing light fitting, or else finding a matching screw
fitting that can replace the bayonet ones in a light cluster fitting.

  #68  
Old April 21st 17, 01:15 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Posts: 27,119
Default New Woodburner Regulations

On 21/04/17 12:31, Capitol wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
The Other Mike wrote:
On Thu, 20 Apr 2017 11:16:35 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"

wrote:


Old kit becomes obsolescent naturally. Anyone still using a 405 line
VHF
TV? No? Was that because of the EU?


Indirectly it was, the Krauts invented PAL, we managed perfectly well
with black and white tv's.


PAL was developed at the request of the European Broadcast Union. The
previous colour TV system, NTSC, had undergone extensive trials by the
BBC
etc and been found lacking.

There's an obvious reason why a German maker spent large sums developing
PAL as a European standard (incidentally first used in the UK, before
Germany) and that was they actually invested in industry, unlike the UK
which preferred to pay out as much as possible to shareholders. Hence
there being no UK owned electronics company these days, while the
descendants of Telefunken are still going strong.


Whilst basically I agree with you, you must bear in mind that UK
insurance companies own vast holdings of world wide shares. In that
respect, private companies are much better at investing than most public
ones. The normal sign of doom is purchase of a company by a hedge fund.
The result is normally a shell with no assets. cf BHS, Little Chef and
now Debenhams.


Ogh god, its 'Red Dave' whinging on about capitalists.

Howes the German jet engine business doing Dave?
When did you last buy a German camera?
What computers are designed in Germany Dave?
What chips are still designed in Germany Dave?

I don't want to live in a ****ry that makes only cars and windmills and
washing machines, frankly.





--
The theory of Communism may be summed up in one sentence: Abolish all
private property.

Karl Marx

  #69  
Old April 21st 17, 01:18 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Posts: 1,081
Default New Woodburner Regulations

On 21/04/2017 12:23, NY wrote:
"Andy Burns" wrote in message
...
Even if all 220 million EU households bought a new vacuum that used
400W less than their old one and used it for 2 hours a month, it would
still be 2749.8 TWh


But *would* it still be for 2 hours a month. If you simply reduce the
motor power, without making that motor power produce more suction, all
you are doing is meaning that the device has to be left on longer to do
the same amount of work, because you have to keep going over the bits
that a stronger suction would have picked up first time.


Possibly - bit like an electric shower. But/and a fair bit of time -
when doing stairs for example - it isn't doing anything except making a
noise (unless you switch off between steps).

It's the same with kettles. It takes a fixed amount of energy to boil a
given amount of water, so if you reduce the power, the kettle must be
left on longer to boil that water - no saving of energy and certainly no
saving of time (quite the reverse).


No, kettles are pretty much 100% efficient. A hoover is nothing like
that - witness the noise for a start. 3kW kettles are a wonderful thing.

Better to encourage people to heat less water - don't boil a full kettle
if your teapot only holds half a kettle-full. Or else encourage people
to use the remaining hot water as part of the washing-up water.


Agreed. I don't use hot water much - household cleaning and very grubby
mitts. Most of the time cold does me fine.

--
Cheers, Rob
  #70  
Old April 21st 17, 01:18 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 27,119
Default New Woodburner Regulations

On 21/04/17 12:45, Capitol wrote:
Andy Burns wrote:
Dave Plowman wrote:

I'd suggest to read up about the reasons behind such legislation. Rather
than making up your own.


Are you suggesting that saving a few hundred watts for a few minutes per
month is distinguishable from noise in the 2750 TWh EU electricity
budget?

I'd even agree that lighting is a worthwhile target, but that maybe they
pushed it a few years too early, how many subsidised CFLs lurk in the
backs of cupboards when decent LEDs were only a few years down the track?


Hindsight is a wonderful thing. More to the point, why should we
reduce energy consumption?


because energy comes at a price.

That's how the market used to work. If e.g. LED lightbulbs cost less
over the bulb lifetime than filament, you would buy LED.

But because the Lefty****s didn't get the ideological result they wanted
out of the free market, they turned it into a subsidy market, where
legislation and taxation dictated what you bought instead.


--
The theory of Communism may be summed up in one sentence: Abolish all
private property.

Karl Marx

 




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