I've just been for a ride in someone's Nissan Leaf - it was impressive, so quiet and amazing acceleration.

Do electric cars have a gearbox (an automatic one I presume)? Or does the motor just run faster the faster you go? I was told by the owner the optimum speed for economy of battery usage is about 55mph.

It doesn't sound like it's changing gear.

Murmansk wrote in
:

I've just been for a ride in someone's Nissan Leaf - it was
impressive, so quiet and amazing acceleration.

Do electric cars have a gearbox (an automatic one I presume)? Or does
the motor just run faster the faster you go? I was told by the owner
the optimum speed for economy of battery usage is about 55mph.

It doesn't sound like it's changing gear.


No gearbox or clutch.

DerbyBorn wrote:
Murmansk wrote in
:

I've just been for a ride in someone's Nissan Leaf - it was
impressive, so quiet and amazing acceleration.

Do electric cars have a gearbox (an automatic one I presume)? Or does
the motor just run faster the faster you go? I was told by the owner
the optimum speed for economy of battery usage is about 55mph.

It doesn't sound like it's changing gear.


No gearbox or clutch.


Usually. Some do have a two speed gearbox.

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

"DerbyBorn" wrote in message
2.236...
Murmansk wrote in
:

I've just been for a ride in someone's Nissan Leaf - it was
impressive, so quiet and amazing acceleration.

Do electric cars have a gearbox (an automatic one I presume)? Or does
the motor just run faster the faster you go? I was told by the owner
the optimum speed for economy of battery usage is about 55mph.

It doesn't sound like it's changing gear.


No gearbox or clutch.

Mainly because an electric motor, when correctly driven, can generate torque
from zero speed and don't have such severe upper limits to the speed because
there are no reciprocating parts which have to rapidly reverse direction.

Not having a gearbox (automatic or manual) must make it much easier to drive
because torque/acceleration is directly dependent on accelerator position
and not a combination of that and gear ratio - you don't get gentle
acceleration which suddenly becomes kick-in-the-back acceleration as the
automatic transmission reacts to your gradually increasing accelerator
position by suddenly deciding to change down in a situation where a manual
driver would hold onto the present gear. I find this the hardest thing about
automatics: I accelerate out of a roundabout and the car suddenly lurches
forward so I ease off the throttle slightly and it changes back up - very
difficult to hit the happy medium.

It is also easier to build in torque limiting to any value, to prevent the
car lurching forwards if you press the accelerator too hard when setting off
from rest, or for a cruise control to also accelerate you briskly and yet
smoothly from one speed (eg rest) to the another speed speed. The fact that
(AFAIK) no cars implement this doesn't mean it's not possible to do.

In article ,
NY wrote:
Not having a gearbox (automatic or manual) must make it much easier to
drive because torque/acceleration is directly dependent on accelerator
position and not a combination of that and gear ratio - you don't get
gentle acceleration which suddenly becomes kick-in-the-back
acceleration as the automatic transmission reacts to your gradually
increasing accelerator position by suddenly deciding to change down in
a situation where a manual driver would hold onto the present gear. I
find this the hardest thing about automatics: I accelerate out of a
roundabout and the car suddenly lurches forward so I ease off the
throttle slightly and it changes back up - very difficult to hit the
happy medium.

Well written software on an auto should make it change rather like a well
driven manual.

But it's a pretty poor auto that 'lurches' forward. And where it changes
down where there is no need. The now ancient pure mechanical GM auto in my
old Rover is pretty well always in the gear I'd choose if it were a
manual, and certainly never lurches forward. Of course if you floor it at
moderate speeds it will drop to 1st gear and take off like a scalded cat.
But not something that happens by accident.

--
*The man who fell into an upholstery machine is fully recovered*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 19/04/17 19:47, Murmansk wrote:
I've just been for a ride in someone's Nissan Leaf - it was impressive, so quiet and amazing acceleration.

Do electric cars have a gearbox (an automatic one I presume)? Or does the motor just run faster the faster you go? I was told by the owner the optimum speed for economy of battery usage is about 55mph.

It doesn't sound like it's changing gear.

Some have gearboxes. 2 speed maybe.

But torque goes down to zero revs, so if you dont mind a bit of
inefficiency, you don't need one to start.

--
Karl Marx said religion is the opium of the people.
But Marxism is the crack cocaine.

On 19/04/17 23:03, NY wrote:
"DerbyBorn" wrote in message
2.236...
Murmansk wrote in
:

I've just been for a ride in someone's Nissan Leaf - it was
impressive, so quiet and amazing acceleration.

Do electric cars have a gearbox (an automatic one I presume)? Or does
the motor just run faster the faster you go? I was told by the owner
the optimum speed for economy of battery usage is about 55mph.

It doesn't sound like it's changing gear.


No gearbox or clutch.

Mainly because an electric motor, when correctly driven, can generate
torque from zero speed and don't have such severe upper limits to the
speed because there are no reciprocating parts which have to rapidly
reverse direction.

The severe upper limit is ion fact the driving voltage, When the motor
back EMF hit's that, it wont go faster.

Not having a gearbox (automatic or manual) must make it much easier to
drive because torque/acceleration is directly dependent on accelerator
position and not a combination of that and gear ratio - you don't get
gentle acceleration which suddenly becomes kick-in-the-back acceleration
as the automatic transmission reacts to your gradually increasing
accelerator position by suddenly deciding to change down in a situation
where a manual driver would hold onto the present gear. I find this the
hardest thing about automatics: I accelerate out of a roundabout and the
car suddenly lurches forward so I ease off the throttle slightly and it
changes back up - very difficult to hit the happy medium.

It is also easier to build in torque limiting to any value, to prevent
the car lurching forwards if you press the accelerator too hard when
setting off from rest, or for a cruise control to also accelerate you
briskly and yet smoothly from one speed (eg rest) to the another speed
speed. The fact that (AFAIK) no cars implement this doesn't mean it's
not possible to do.

Torque is directly proportionment to current. If you monitor that and
pedal position and use the difference top adjust a PWM chopper, then the
behaviour will be as you describe. It is not 'given' though. It has to
be designed in.


--
"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign,
that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."

Jonathan Swift.

On 19/04/17 23:03, NY wrote:
"DerbyBorn" wrote in message
2.236...
Murmansk wrote in
:

I've just been for a ride in someone's Nissan Leaf - it was
impressive, so quiet and amazing acceleration.

Do electric cars have a gearbox (an automatic one I presume)? Or does
the motor just run faster the faster you go? I was told by the owner
the optimum speed for economy of battery usage is about 55mph.

It doesn't sound like it's changing gear.


No gearbox or clutch.

Mainly because an electric motor, when correctly driven, can generate
torque from zero speed and don't have such severe upper limits to the
speed because there are no reciprocating parts which have to rapidly
reverse direction.

Not having a gearbox (automatic or manual) must make it much easier to
drive because torque/acceleration is directly dependent on accelerator
position and not a combination of that and gear ratio - you don't get
gentle acceleration which suddenly becomes kick-in-the-back acceleration
as the automatic transmission reacts to your gradually increasing
accelerator position by suddenly deciding to change down in a situation
where a manual driver would hold onto the present gear. I find this the
hardest thing about automatics: I accelerate out of a roundabout and the
car suddenly lurches forward so I ease off the throttle slightly and it
changes back up - very difficult to hit the happy medium.

It is also easier to build in torque limiting to any value, to prevent
the car lurching forwards if you press the accelerator too hard when
setting off from rest, or for a cruise control to also accelerate you
briskly and yet smoothly from one speed (eg rest) to the another speed
speed. The fact that (AFAIK) no cars implement this doesn't mean it's
not possible to do.

Not only - but motors can be geared virtually - by changing the number
of poles.

Say you have a 24 pole motor. By deciding how to drive the windings in
phase or antiphase, you can pair off adjacent poles for an effective 12
pole, 8 pole, 6 pole etc setup.

More poles = slower and higher torque, less poles = higher rpm.

I have no idea if this method is used by any car motors but I think some
trains do - you can hear the "whirrr... drop pitch whirrr" which I can
only explain as pole changing as the motor is otherwise directly
connected to the axel.

However, I'm pretty sure most traction has at least one set of fixed
gears as motor rpms tend to be higher than desired wheel rpms.

On 20/04/17 08:10, Tim Watts wrote:
On 19/04/17 23:03, NY wrote:
"DerbyBorn" wrote in message
2.236...
Murmansk wrote in
:

I've just been for a ride in someone's Nissan Leaf - it was
impressive, so quiet and amazing acceleration.

Do electric cars have a gearbox (an automatic one I presume)? Or does
the motor just run faster the faster you go? I was told by the owner
the optimum speed for economy of battery usage is about 55mph.

It doesn't sound like it's changing gear.


No gearbox or clutch.

Mainly because an electric motor, when correctly driven, can generate
torque from zero speed and don't have such severe upper limits to the
speed because there are no reciprocating parts which have to rapidly
reverse direction.

Not having a gearbox (automatic or manual) must make it much easier to
drive because torque/acceleration is directly dependent on accelerator
position and not a combination of that and gear ratio - you don't get
gentle acceleration which suddenly becomes kick-in-the-back acceleration
as the automatic transmission reacts to your gradually increasing
accelerator position by suddenly deciding to change down in a situation
where a manual driver would hold onto the present gear. I find this the
hardest thing about automatics: I accelerate out of a roundabout and the
car suddenly lurches forward so I ease off the throttle slightly and it
changes back up - very difficult to hit the happy medium.

It is also easier to build in torque limiting to any value, to prevent
the car lurching forwards if you press the accelerator too hard when
setting off from rest, or for a cruise control to also accelerate you
briskly and yet smoothly from one speed (eg rest) to the another speed
speed. The fact that (AFAIK) no cars implement this doesn't mean it's
not possible to do.

Not only - but motors can be geared virtually - by changing the number
of poles.

Say you have a 24 pole motor. By deciding how to drive the windings in
phase or antiphase, you can pair off adjacent poles for an effective 12
pole, 8 pole, 6 pole etc setup.

More poles = slower and higher torque, less poles = higher rpm.


What utter ********.


I have no idea if this method is used by any car motors but I think some
trains do - you can hear the "whirrr... drop pitch whirrr" which I can
only explain as pole changing as the motor is otherwise directly
connected to the axel.

However, I'm pretty sure most traction has at least one set of fixed
gears as motor rpms tend to be higher than desired wheel rpms.

Well even there you would be wrong. Its depends on how many poles the
motor is built with (as opposed to driven).

I could explain the theory, but you wouldn't understand it would you?

--
"Corbyn talks about equality, justice, opportunity, health care, peace,
community, compassion, investment, security, housing...."
"What kind of person is not interested in those things?"

"Jeremy Corbyn?"

On Wednesday, 19 April 2017 19:47:29 UTC+1, Murmansk wrote:
I've just been for a ride in someone's Nissan Leaf - it was impressive, so quiet and amazing acceleration.

Do electric cars have a gearbox (an automatic one I presume)? Or does the motor just run faster the faster you go? I was told by the owner the optimum speed for economy of battery usage is about 55mph.

It doesn't sound like it's changing gear.

Internal combustion engines are inherently unsuitable for traction, hence the need for gearboxes/clutches etc.
Electric motors can be designed to be ideal for traction.
Max torque at zero rpm.
However this leads to skidding on moving from rest so most have some form of traction control.
Some electric cars have gearboxes but not many. Morgan was one of them.
When you have owned and electric car, you won't want to go back to petrol/diesel.
They are very cheap to run but costly to buy. No road tax ATM

Be warned, nobody can fix them if they go wrong.
Parts are modular and expensive. Batteries are very expensive.
There are lots of theories about battery life/deterioration.
No-one seems to know the truth.

On Thursday, 20 April 2017 07:20:39 UTC+1, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 19/04/17 23:03, NY wrote:
"DerbyBorn" wrote in message
2.236...
Murmansk wrote in
:

I've just been for a ride in someone's Nissan Leaf - it was
impressive, so quiet and amazing acceleration.

Do electric cars have a gearbox (an automatic one I presume)? Or does
the motor just run faster the faster you go? I was told by the owner
the optimum speed for economy of battery usage is about 55mph.

It doesn't sound like it's changing gear.


No gearbox or clutch.

Mainly because an electric motor, when correctly driven, can generate
torque from zero speed and don't have such severe upper limits to the
speed because there are no reciprocating parts which have to rapidly
reverse direction.

The severe upper limit is ion fact the driving voltage, When the motor
back EMF hit's that, it wont go faster.

Drivel. The motors are three phase synchronous motors with rare earth magnets, not milk float motors.

On Thursday, 20 April 2017 08:11:00 UTC+1, Tim Watts wrote:
On 19/04/17 23:03, NY wrote:
"DerbyBorn" wrote in message
2.236...
Murmansk wrote in
:

I've just been for a ride in someone's Nissan Leaf - it was
impressive, so quiet and amazing acceleration.

Do electric cars have a gearbox (an automatic one I presume)? Or does
the motor just run faster the faster you go? I was told by the owner
the optimum speed for economy of battery usage is about 55mph.

It doesn't sound like it's changing gear.


No gearbox or clutch.

Mainly because an electric motor, when correctly driven, can generate
torque from zero speed and don't have such severe upper limits to the
speed because there are no reciprocating parts which have to rapidly
reverse direction.

Not having a gearbox (automatic or manual) must make it much easier to
drive because torque/acceleration is directly dependent on accelerator
position and not a combination of that and gear ratio - you don't get
gentle acceleration which suddenly becomes kick-in-the-back acceleration
as the automatic transmission reacts to your gradually increasing
accelerator position by suddenly deciding to change down in a situation
where a manual driver would hold onto the present gear. I find this the
hardest thing about automatics: I accelerate out of a roundabout and the
car suddenly lurches forward so I ease off the throttle slightly and it
changes back up - very difficult to hit the happy medium.

It is also easier to build in torque limiting to any value, to prevent
the car lurching forwards if you press the accelerator too hard when
setting off from rest, or for a cruise control to also accelerate you
briskly and yet smoothly from one speed (eg rest) to the another speed
speed. The fact that (AFAIK) no cars implement this doesn't mean it's
not possible to do.

Not only - but motors can be geared virtually - by changing the number
of poles.

Say you have a 24 pole motor. By deciding how to drive the windings in
phase or antiphase, you can pair off adjacent poles for an effective 12
pole, 8 pole, 6 pole etc setup.

More poles = slower and higher torque, less poles = higher rpm.

I have no idea if this method is used by any car motors but I think some
trains do - you can hear the "whirrr... drop pitch whirrr" which I can
only explain as pole changing as the motor is otherwise directly
connected to the axel.

What drivel you write.

It depends. Many do not have them and use motors driven a bit like those in
CD players with constant torque no matter ewhat speed, while others use gear
trains but motors running quite fast.
Of course hybrids are far more complicated.

The problem with quiet cars though is that crossing the road in poor
visibilityccan be very dangerous.
Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"Murmansk" wrote in message
...
I've just been for a ride in someone's Nissan Leaf - it was impressive, so
quiet and amazing acceleration.

Do electric cars have a gearbox (an automatic one I presume)? Or does the
motor just run faster the faster you go? I was told by the owner the
optimum speed for economy of battery usage is about 55mph.

It doesn't sound like it's changing gear.

On 20/04/17 08:13, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 20/04/17 08:10, Tim Watts wrote:

More poles = slower and higher torque, less poles = higher rpm.


What utter ********.

Perhaps you should check your facts before you go slagging people off:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dahlan...changing_motor

I'll accept an apology when you've read that.


I have no idea if this method is used by any car motors but I think some
trains do - you can hear the "whirrr... drop pitch whirrr" which I can
only explain as pole changing as the motor is otherwise directly
connected to the axel.

However, I'm pretty sure most traction has at least one set of fixed
gears as motor rpms tend to be higher than desired wheel rpms.

Well even there you would be wrong. Its depends on how many poles the
motor is built with (as opposed to driven).

I could explain the theory, but you wouldn't understand it would you?


Perhaps you could try - or is it beneath you?

On 20/04/17 10:17, Tim Watts wrote:
On 20/04/17 08:13, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 20/04/17 08:10, Tim Watts wrote:

More poles = slower and higher torque, less poles = higher rpm.


What utter ********.

Perhaps you should check your facts before you go slagging people off:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dahlan...changing_motor

I'll accept an apology when you've read that.


I have no idea if this method is used by any car motors but I think some
trains do - you can hear the "whirrr... drop pitch whirrr" which I can
only explain as pole changing as the motor is otherwise directly
connected to the axel.

However, I'm pretty sure most traction has at least one set of fixed
gears as motor rpms tend to be higher than desired wheel rpms.

Well even there you would be wrong. Its depends on how many poles the
motor is built with (as opposed to driven).

I could explain the theory, but you wouldn't understand it would you?


Perhaps you could try - or is it beneath you?


People would simply say 'too long, didn't bother to read it' and go back
to believing simple fairy tales as per usual.

Lets just deal with one aspect. Number of poles. There is a given amount
of iron you can cram into a motor, that, plus the magnets you use
(unless they are electromagnets) determines the amount of energy *per
magnetic reversal* you can get in and out of the system

This leads to a simple rule: the more revs (reversals) the more power.
Until other factors limit you, as high frequencies start to impose their
own extra losses, as does friction.

Adding more poles allow for more reversals per shaft rotation. It is
equivalent to a gearbox. However only using *some* of those poles nets
you nothing, because you are simply using less ironwork. Its pointless.
No one does it. It is simply like having a smaller motor that weighs more.

Electric motors are UTTERLY different from other motors.They dont really
have a 'power rating' re se. Only when fed from a given voltage.

I've run motors designed for 3V, generally used at 6-7v, at 11-12 v and
got more than three times the power out of them. The limitation was
brush bounce and wear in that case, and the availability of gearboxes to
get the insane RPM down to something usable..


In practical terms a multipole motor is bigger and more expensive than a
two or three pole motor* BUT if the gearbox you need to use is more
expensive and heavier...then the multi-pole wins slightly.

Some of the model motors used to come with kevlar wound rotors, to stop
them exploding. More revs, more power.


That's part of the simple story. The more complex story involves
understanding copper losses (resistance) iron losses (hysteresis and
frictional motor losses) plus issues with the controlling electronics
(peak currents, inductance, switching losses and so on). And it it uses
permanent magnets, the field strength, weight, and performance versus
temperature of those as well.

Each one of which is a book chapters worth.

*two magnetic, three wound poles is the most basic uni-directional motor.


--
"Women actually are capable of being far more than the feminists will
let them."

On 20/04/17 10:51, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 20/04/17 10:17, Tim Watts wrote:
On 20/04/17 08:13, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 20/04/17 08:10, Tim Watts wrote:

More poles = slower and higher torque, less poles = higher rpm.


What utter ********.

Perhaps you should check your facts before you go slagging people off:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dahlan...changing_motor

I'll accept an apology when you've read that.


I have no idea if this method is used by any car motors but I think
some
trains do - you can hear the "whirrr... drop pitch whirrr" which I
can
only explain as pole changing as the motor is otherwise directly
connected to the axel.

However, I'm pretty sure most traction has at least one set of fixed
gears as motor rpms tend to be higher than desired wheel rpms.

Well even there you would be wrong. Its depends on how many poles the
motor is built with (as opposed to driven).

I could explain the theory, but you wouldn't understand it would you?


Perhaps you could try - or is it beneath you?


People would simply say 'too long, didn't bother to read it' and go back
to believing simple fairy tales as per usual.

Lets just deal with one aspect. Number of poles. There is a given amount
of iron you can cram into a motor, that, plus the magnets you use
(unless they are electromagnets) determines the amount of energy *per
magnetic reversal* you can get in and out of the system

This leads to a simple rule: the more revs (reversals) the more power.
Until other factors limit you, as high frequencies start to impose their
own extra losses, as does friction.

Adding more poles allow for more reversals per shaft rotation. It is
equivalent to a gearbox. However only using *some* of those poles nets
you nothing, because you are simply using less ironwork. Its pointless.
No one does it. It is simply like having a smaller motor that weighs more.

Electric motors are UTTERLY different from other motors.They dont really
have a 'power rating' re se. Only when fed from a given voltage.

I've run motors designed for 3V, generally used at 6-7v, at 11-12 v and
got more than three times the power out of them. The limitation was
brush bounce and wear in that case, and the availability of gearboxes to
get the insane RPM down to something usable..


In practical terms a multipole motor is bigger and more expensive than a
two or three pole motor* BUT if the gearbox you need to use is more
expensive and heavier...then the multi-pole wins slightly.

Some of the model motors used to come with kevlar wound rotors, to stop
them exploding. More revs, more power.


That's part of the simple story. The more complex story involves
understanding copper losses (resistance) iron losses (hysteresis and
frictional motor losses) plus issues with the controlling electronics
(peak currents, inductance, switching losses and so on). And it it uses
permanent magnets, the field strength, weight, and performance versus
temperature of those as well.

Each one of which is a book chapters worth.

*two magnetic, three wound poles is the most basic uni-directional motor.



OK - fine. But you haven't explained why it's "********". I've found
references to train traction using, at some points in history, pole
changing configurations.

Also the type of motor described in the Wiki was an induction motor so
no permanent magnets.

Most EMUs these days use induction motors, even on DC lines so the power
electronics is there either way.

I'm not sure how having a larger number of lighter stator windings is
worse than 2-3 large windings either. Would any large traction motor
really use a 3 pole configuration - it seems unlikely - the starting
torque would suffer.

On 20/04/17 11:02, Tim Watts wrote:
On 20/04/17 10:51, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 20/04/17 10:17, Tim Watts wrote:
On 20/04/17 08:13, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 20/04/17 08:10, Tim Watts wrote:

More poles = slower and higher torque, less poles = higher rpm.


What utter ********.

Perhaps you should check your facts before you go slagging people off:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dahlan...changing_motor

I'll accept an apology when you've read that.


I have no idea if this method is used by any car motors but I think
some
trains do - you can hear the "whirrr... drop pitch whirrr" which I
can
only explain as pole changing as the motor is otherwise directly
connected to the axel.

However, I'm pretty sure most traction has at least one set of fixed
gears as motor rpms tend to be higher than desired wheel rpms.

Well even there you would be wrong. Its depends on how many poles the
motor is built with (as opposed to driven).

I could explain the theory, but you wouldn't understand it would you?


Perhaps you could try - or is it beneath you?


People would simply say 'too long, didn't bother to read it' and go back
to believing simple fairy tales as per usual.

Lets just deal with one aspect. Number of poles. There is a given amount
of iron you can cram into a motor, that, plus the magnets you use
(unless they are electromagnets) determines the amount of energy *per
magnetic reversal* you can get in and out of the system

This leads to a simple rule: the more revs (reversals) the more power.
Until other factors limit you, as high frequencies start to impose their
own extra losses, as does friction.

Adding more poles allow for more reversals per shaft rotation. It is
equivalent to a gearbox. However only using *some* of those poles nets
you nothing, because you are simply using less ironwork. Its pointless.
No one does it. It is simply like having a smaller motor that weighs
more.

Electric motors are UTTERLY different from other motors.They dont really
have a 'power rating' re se. Only when fed from a given voltage.

I've run motors designed for 3V, generally used at 6-7v, at 11-12 v and
got more than three times the power out of them. The limitation was
brush bounce and wear in that case, and the availability of gearboxes to
get the insane RPM down to something usable..


In practical terms a multipole motor is bigger and more expensive than a
two or three pole motor* BUT if the gearbox you need to use is more
expensive and heavier...then the multi-pole wins slightly.

Some of the model motors used to come with kevlar wound rotors, to stop
them exploding. More revs, more power.


That's part of the simple story. The more complex story involves
understanding copper losses (resistance) iron losses (hysteresis and
frictional motor losses) plus issues with the controlling electronics
(peak currents, inductance, switching losses and so on). And it it uses
permanent magnets, the field strength, weight, and performance versus
temperature of those as well.

Each one of which is a book chapters worth.

*two magnetic, three wound poles is the most basic uni-directional motor.



OK - fine. But you haven't explained why it's "********". I've found
references to train traction using, at some points in history, pole
changing configurations.

Also the type of motor described in the Wiki was an induction motor so
no permanent magnets.

Most EMUs these days use induction motors, even on DC lines so the power
electronics is there either way.

I'm not sure how having a larger number of lighter stator windings is
worse than 2-3 large windings either. Would any large traction motor
really use a 3 pole configuration - it seems unlikely - the starting
torque would suffer.


sigh. You see. I explain, and it makes no difference.

A 3 pole motor and a 3:1 gear box is EXACTLY equivalent to a 9 pole
motor of the same size.

If you found references to pole changing it was almost certainly using
all the poles but putting them in series or parallel pairs.

If you only have contactor type switches that's a very crude way to
limit starting current. i.e a 6 pole motor can be connected as a 3 pole
motor with either twice or half the RPM per volt and twice or half the
starting torque or current. Depending whether you series or parallel the
windings.,

But that isn't 'switching poles off' .

And all it really does is ensure you can start without burning the motor
out. These days an electronic controller does that better.






--
"When one man dies it's a tragedy. When thousands die it's statistics."

Josef Stalin

On 19/04/2017 19:47, Murmansk wrote:
I've just been for a ride in someone's Nissan Leaf - it was impressive, so quiet and amazing acceleration.

Do electric cars have a gearbox (an automatic one I presume)? Or does the motor just run faster the faster you go? I was told by the owner the optimum speed for economy of battery usage is about 55mph.

It doesn't sound like it's changing gear.


We looked at the Tesla and were told it didn't have a gear box.

We decided against all electric, we don't like the idea of being stuck
with a 'flat' battery on a journey. The idea of stopping for 'top ups'
on a long journey is fine until you consider the practical aspects.



--

Suspect someone is claiming a benefit under false pretences? Incapacity
Benefit or Personal Independence Payment when they don't need it? They
are depriving those in real need!

https://www.gov.uk/report-benefit-fraud

On 20-Apr-17 8:18 AM, harry wrote:
On Wednesday, 19 April 2017 19:47:29 UTC+1, Murmansk wrote:
I've just been for a ride in someone's Nissan Leaf - it was impressive, so quiet and amazing acceleration.

Do electric cars have a gearbox (an automatic one I presume)? Or does the motor just run faster the faster you go? I was told by the owner the optimum speed for economy of battery usage is about 55mph.

It doesn't sound like it's changing gear.

Internal combustion engines are inherently unsuitable for traction, hence the need for gearboxes/clutches etc.
Electric motors can be designed to be ideal for traction.
Max torque at zero rpm.

I could get that with a steam engine.

However this leads to skidding on moving from rest so most have some form of traction control.
Some electric cars have gearboxes but not many. Morgan was one of them.
When you have owned and electric car, you won't want to go back to petrol/diesel...

Before I even try one, somebody would have to make one that meets my
requirements: A large estate car with a 600+ mile range, able to cruise
comfortably at over 100mph (not necessarily both at the same time), with
full air conditioning, lots of electrical gadgets and capable of being
fully refilled in only a few minutes.


--
--

Colin Bignell

On 4/20/2017 5:23 PM, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Brian Reay wrote:

On 19/04/2017 19:47, Murmansk wrote:
I've just been for a ride in someone's Nissan Leaf - it was
impressive, so
quiet and amazing acceleration.

Do electric cars have a gearbox (an automatic one I presume)? Or does
the
motor just run faster the faster you go? I was told by the owner the
optimum
speed for economy of battery usage is about 55mph.

It doesn't sound like it's changing gear.

We looked at the Tesla and were told it didn't have a gear box.

We decided against all electric, we don't like the idea of being stuck
with a 'flat' battery on a journey. The idea of stopping for 'top ups'
on a long journey is fine until you consider the practical aspects.

As a matter of interest, is anyone looking (as in considering making) a
hybrid electric? As in, rather than having a powerful petrol engine, a
less powerful electric motor, a normal size fuel tank and a smaller
battery (like my Toyota Auris), instead have a full-size electric
motor, larger battery, but with a small petrol engine and small fuel
tank?

That way one could stop anywhere to recharge or even do it on the go.


You mean like a Prius?

On 20-Apr-17 6:18 PM, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Nightjar
wrote:

On 20-Apr-17 8:18 AM, harry wrote:
On Wednesday, 19 April 2017 19:47:29 UTC+1, Murmansk wrote:
I've just been for a ride in someone's Nissan Leaf - it was
impressive, so
quiet and amazing acceleration.

Do electric cars have a gearbox (an automatic one I presume)? Or
does the
motor just run faster the faster you go? I was told by the owner the
optimum speed for economy of battery usage is about 55mph.

It doesn't sound like it's changing gear.

Internal combustion engines are inherently unsuitable for traction,
hence
the need for gearboxes/clutches etc.
Electric motors can be designed to be ideal for traction.
Max torque at zero rpm.

I could get that with a steam engine.

And a small one at that for a car. But AIUI, it's the condenser that's
the problem.


With a 24 gallon water tank, the 1924 Doble E had a 1500 mile range and
it could move off from cold in under 30 seconds.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars...le-steam-cars/

--
--

Colin Bignell

On 4/20/2017 6:19 PM, Tim Streater wrote:
In article ,
newshound wrote:

On 4/20/2017 5:23 PM, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Brian Reay wrote:

On 19/04/2017 19:47, Murmansk wrote:
I've just been for a ride in someone's Nissan Leaf - it was
impressive, so
quiet and amazing acceleration.

Do electric cars have a gearbox (an automatic one I presume)? Or
does the
motor just run faster the faster you go? I was told by the owner
the optimum
speed for economy of battery usage is about 55mph.

It doesn't sound like it's changing gear.

We looked at the Tesla and were told it didn't have a gear box.

We decided against all electric, we don't like the idea of being
stuck with a 'flat' battery on a journey. The idea of stopping for
'top ups' on a long journey is fine until you consider the practical
aspects.

As a matter of interest, is anyone looking (as in considering making) a
hybrid electric? As in, rather than having a powerful petrol engine, a
less powerful electric motor, a normal size fuel tank and a smaller
battery (like my Toyota Auris), instead have a full-size electric
motor, larger battery, but with a small petrol engine and small fuel
tank?

That way one could stop anywhere to recharge or even do it on the go.

You mean like a Prius?

Which one. The Prius hybrid is just the same as my Auris hybrid.

Ah. Do you mean a Prius with a charging socket? I am almost sure I have
heard of a rechargeable electric with a small IC engine for optional
charging (but not a Prius). Maybe it was a prototype.

Tim Streater wrote:
As a matter of interest, is anyone looking (as in considering making) a
hybrid electric? As in, rather than having a powerful petrol engine, a
less powerful electric motor, a normal size fuel tank and a smaller
battery (like my Toyota Auris), instead have a full-size electric
motor, larger battery, but with a small petrol engine and small fuel
tank?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Range_extender_(vehicle)

Theo

On 20/04/2017 17:23, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Brian Reay wrote:

On 19/04/2017 19:47, Murmansk wrote:
I've just been for a ride in someone's Nissan Leaf - it was
impressive, so
quiet and amazing acceleration.

Do electric cars have a gearbox (an automatic one I presume)? Or does
the
motor just run faster the faster you go? I was told by the owner the
optimum
speed for economy of battery usage is about 55mph.

It doesn't sound like it's changing gear.

We looked at the Tesla and were told it didn't have a gear box.

We decided against all electric, we don't like the idea of being stuck
with a 'flat' battery on a journey. The idea of stopping for 'top ups'
on a long journey is fine until you consider the practical aspects.

As a matter of interest, is anyone looking (as in considering making) a
hybrid electric? As in, rather than having a powerful petrol engine, a
less powerful electric motor, a normal size fuel tank and a smaller
battery (like my Toyota Auris), instead have a full-size electric
motor, larger battery, but with a small petrol engine and small fuel
tank?

That way one could stop anywhere to recharge or even do it on the go.

A few months ago I went through the EV search, I think the ones with
small ICEs are called Range Extenders. I decided on a plug-in hybrid and
am very pleased with it - 208HP ICE and 80HP electric motor driving a
seven speed auto box with some magic arrangement of clutches that allows
one or both to drive, or neither, or to use the motor for regen braking.
All very clever but probably a maintenance nightmare when it gets old.

On 4/20/2017 8:17 PM, Theo wrote:
Tim Streater wrote:
As a matter of interest, is anyone looking (as in considering making) a
hybrid electric? As in, rather than having a powerful petrol engine, a
less powerful electric motor, a normal size fuel tank and a smaller
battery (like my Toyota Auris), instead have a full-size electric
motor, larger battery, but with a small petrol engine and small fuel
tank?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Range_extender_(vehicle)

Theo

Oh good, I didn't imagine it!

On Thu, 20 Apr 2017 00:18:50 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

snip

When you have owned and electric car, you won't want to go back to petrol/diesel.

snip

Hmm, I've owned an electric car for over 30 years and I'd say that
whilst it has it's merits, it still has too many limitations to be the
primary vehicle for many (even excluding the annual holiday etc).

One of it's merits is it's simplicity (not sure it would be the case
these days?). When I first got it home (on a trailer behind my IC car)
I thought I'd give it a good check over. I checked the brakes, the
lights and the battery electrolyte levels ... and that was about it.

Ok, I know most production PEV's can go faster than 30 mph and a range
greater than 20 miles but the concept / limitations are still similar.

Now, as it happened I worked only 1/4 mile from the house so one (20p)
charge would get me to work and back (and at lunchtime) for a couple
of weeks at least (assuming I didn't go anywhere else).

It was also exempt the MOT (at the time) and carried Zero Road Tax
(but you still had to have a Tax disk g), was insured at about the
same cost as the original BL Mini and obviously ignoring the initial
cost / deterioration of the batteries, had hardly any other running
costs.

Not sure how many PEVs can tow a trailer or take roof bars?

Cheers, T i m

On 21/04/2017 00:04, wrote:
On 20/04/2017 17:23, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Brian Reay wrote:

On 19/04/2017 19:47, Murmansk wrote:
I've just been for a ride in someone's Nissan Leaf - it was
impressive, so
quiet and amazing acceleration.

Do electric cars have a gearbox (an automatic one I presume)? Or does
the
motor just run faster the faster you go? I was told by the owner the
optimum
speed for economy of battery usage is about 55mph.

It doesn't sound like it's changing gear.

We looked at the Tesla and were told it didn't have a gear box.

We decided against all electric, we don't like the idea of being stuck
with a 'flat' battery on a journey. The idea of stopping for 'top ups'
on a long journey is fine until you consider the practical aspects.

As a matter of interest, is anyone looking (as in considering making) a
hybrid electric? As in, rather than having a powerful petrol engine, a
less powerful electric motor, a normal size fuel tank and a smaller
battery (like my Toyota Auris), instead have a full-size electric
motor, larger battery, but with a small petrol engine and small fuel
tank?

That way one could stop anywhere to recharge or even do it on the go.

A few months ago I went through the EV search, I think the ones with
small ICEs are called Range Extenders. I decided on a plug-in hybrid and
am very pleased with it - 208HP ICE and 80HP electric motor driving a
seven speed auto box with some magic arrangement of clutches that allows
one or both to drive, or neither, or to use the motor for regen braking.
All very clever but probably a maintenance nightmare when it gets old.

BMW 3 series? A friend has one and likes it.

--
Cheers, Rob

On Thursday, 20 April 2017 10:17:56 UTC+1, Tim Watts wrote:
On 20/04/17 08:13, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 20/04/17 08:10, Tim Watts wrote:

More poles = slower and higher torque, less poles = higher rpm.


What utter ********.

Perhaps you should check your facts before you go slagging people off:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dahlan...changing_motor

I'll accept an apology when you've read that.


This is totally obsolete technology.
I remember seeing a few such motors when I was an apprentice fifty odd years ago.

Completely irrelevant for traction.

On Thursday, 20 April 2017 10:51:23 UTC+1, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 20/04/17 10:17, Tim Watts wrote:
On 20/04/17 08:13, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 20/04/17 08:10, Tim Watts wrote:

More poles = slower and higher torque, less poles = higher rpm.


What utter ********.

Perhaps you should check your facts before you go slagging people off:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dahlan...changing_motor

I'll accept an apology when you've read that.


I have no idea if this method is used by any car motors but I think some
trains do - you can hear the "whirrr... drop pitch whirrr" which I can
only explain as pole changing as the motor is otherwise directly
connected to the axel.

However, I'm pretty sure most traction has at least one set of fixed
gears as motor rpms tend to be higher than desired wheel rpms.

Well even there you would be wrong. Its depends on how many poles the
motor is built with (as opposed to driven).

I could explain the theory, but you wouldn't understand it would you?


Perhaps you could try - or is it beneath you?


People would simply say 'too long, didn't bother to read it' and go back
to believing simple fairy tales as per usual.

Lets just deal with one aspect. Number of poles. There is a given amount
of iron you can cram into a motor, that, plus the magnets you use
(unless they are electromagnets) determines the amount of energy *per
magnetic reversal* you can get in and out of the system

This leads to a simple rule: the more revs (reversals) the more power.
Until other factors limit you, as high frequencies start to impose their
own extra losses, as does friction.

Adding more poles allow for more reversals per shaft rotation. It is
equivalent to a gearbox. However only using *some* of those poles nets
you nothing, because you are simply using less ironwork. Its pointless.
No one does it. It is simply like having a smaller motor that weighs more.

Electric motors are UTTERLY different from other motors.They dont really
have a 'power rating' re se. Only when fed from a given voltage.

I've run motors designed for 3V, generally used at 6-7v, at 11-12 v and
got more than three times the power out of them. The limitation was
brush bounce and wear in that case, and the availability of gearboxes to
get the insane RPM down to something usable..


In practical terms a multipole motor is bigger and more expensive than a
two or three pole motor* BUT if the gearbox you need to use is more
expensive and heavier...then the multi-pole wins slightly.

Some of the model motors used to come with kevlar wound rotors, to stop
them exploding. More revs, more power.


That's part of the simple story. The more complex story involves
understanding copper losses (resistance) iron losses (hysteresis and
frictional motor losses) plus issues with the controlling electronics
(peak currents, inductance, switching losses and so on). And it it uses
permanent magnets, the field strength, weight, and performance versus
temperature of those as well.

Each one of which is a book chapters worth.

*two magnetic, three wound poles is the most basic uni-directional motor.


Most of the above is ******** too.

On Thursday, 20 April 2017 12:03:28 UTC+1, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 20/04/17 11:02, Tim Watts wrote:
On 20/04/17 10:51, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 20/04/17 10:17, Tim Watts wrote:
On 20/04/17 08:13, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 20/04/17 08:10, Tim Watts wrote:

More poles = slower and higher torque, less poles = higher rpm.


What utter ********.

Perhaps you should check your facts before you go slagging people off:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dahlan...changing_motor

I'll accept an apology when you've read that.


I have no idea if this method is used by any car motors but I think
some
trains do - you can hear the "whirrr... drop pitch whirrr" which I
can
only explain as pole changing as the motor is otherwise directly
connected to the axel.

However, I'm pretty sure most traction has at least one set of fixed
gears as motor rpms tend to be higher than desired wheel rpms.

Well even there you would be wrong. Its depends on how many poles the
motor is built with (as opposed to driven).

I could explain the theory, but you wouldn't understand it would you?


Perhaps you could try - or is it beneath you?


People would simply say 'too long, didn't bother to read it' and go back
to believing simple fairy tales as per usual.

Lets just deal with one aspect. Number of poles. There is a given amount
of iron you can cram into a motor, that, plus the magnets you use
(unless they are electromagnets) determines the amount of energy *per
magnetic reversal* you can get in and out of the system

This leads to a simple rule: the more revs (reversals) the more power.
Until other factors limit you, as high frequencies start to impose their
own extra losses, as does friction.

Adding more poles allow for more reversals per shaft rotation. It is
equivalent to a gearbox. However only using *some* of those poles nets
you nothing, because you are simply using less ironwork. Its pointless.
No one does it. It is simply like having a smaller motor that weighs
more.

Electric motors are UTTERLY different from other motors.They dont really
have a 'power rating' re se. Only when fed from a given voltage.

I've run motors designed for 3V, generally used at 6-7v, at 11-12 v and
got more than three times the power out of them. The limitation was
brush bounce and wear in that case, and the availability of gearboxes to
get the insane RPM down to something usable..


In practical terms a multipole motor is bigger and more expensive than a
two or three pole motor* BUT if the gearbox you need to use is more
expensive and heavier...then the multi-pole wins slightly.

Some of the model motors used to come with kevlar wound rotors, to stop
them exploding. More revs, more power.


That's part of the simple story. The more complex story involves
understanding copper losses (resistance) iron losses (hysteresis and
frictional motor losses) plus issues with the controlling electronics
(peak currents, inductance, switching losses and so on). And it it uses
permanent magnets, the field strength, weight, and performance versus
temperature of those as well.

Each one of which is a book chapters worth.

*two magnetic, three wound poles is the most basic uni-directional motor.



OK - fine. But you haven't explained why it's "********". I've found
references to train traction using, at some points in history, pole
changing configurations.

Also the type of motor described in the Wiki was an induction motor so
no permanent magnets.

Most EMUs these days use induction motors, even on DC lines so the power
electronics is there either way.

I'm not sure how having a larger number of lighter stator windings is
worse than 2-3 large windings either. Would any large traction motor
really use a 3 pole configuration - it seems unlikely - the starting
torque would suffer.


sigh. You see. I explain, and it makes no difference.

A 3 pole motor and a 3:1 gear box is EXACTLY equivalent to a 9 pole
motor of the same size.

If you found references to pole changing it was almost certainly using
all the poles but putting them in series or parallel pairs.

If you only have contactor type switches that's a very crude way to
limit starting current. i.e a 6 pole motor can be connected as a 3 pole
motor with either twice or half the RPM per volt and twice or half the
starting torque or current. Depending whether you series or parallel the
windings.,

But that isn't 'switching poles off' .

And all it really does is ensure you can start without burning the motor
out. These days an electronic controller does that better.



That is a very inaccurate explanation.
Verging on ********

On Thursday, 20 April 2017 17:41:08 UTC+1, Nightjar wrote:
On 20-Apr-17 8:18 AM, harry wrote:
On Wednesday, 19 April 2017 19:47:29 UTC+1, Murmansk wrote:
I've just been for a ride in someone's Nissan Leaf - it was impressive, so quiet and amazing acceleration.

Do electric cars have a gearbox (an automatic one I presume)? Or does the motor just run faster the faster you go? I was told by the owner the optimum speed for economy of battery usage is about 55mph.

It doesn't sound like it's changing gear.

Internal combustion engines are inherently unsuitable for traction, hence the need for gearboxes/clutches etc.
Electric motors can be designed to be ideal for traction.
Max torque at zero rpm.

I could get that with a steam engine.

A steam engine is not an ICE.



However this leads to skidding on moving from rest so most have some form of traction control.
Some electric cars have gearboxes but not many. Morgan was one of them.
When you have owned and electric car, you won't want to go back to petrol/diesel...

Before I even try one, somebody would have to make one that meets my
requirements: A large estate car with a 600+ mile range, able to cruise
comfortably at over 100mph (not necessarily both at the same time), with
full air conditioning, lots of electrical gadgets and capable of being
fully refilled in only a few minutes.


Few ICE cars can do this.

On Thursday, 20 April 2017 19:24:26 UTC+1, Nightjar wrote:
On 20-Apr-17 6:18 PM, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Nightjar
wrote:

On 20-Apr-17 8:18 AM, harry wrote:
On Wednesday, 19 April 2017 19:47:29 UTC+1, Murmansk wrote:
I've just been for a ride in someone's Nissan Leaf - it was
impressive, so
quiet and amazing acceleration.

Do electric cars have a gearbox (an automatic one I presume)? Or
does the
motor just run faster the faster you go? I was told by the owner the
optimum speed for economy of battery usage is about 55mph.

It doesn't sound like it's changing gear.

Internal combustion engines are inherently unsuitable for traction,
hence
the need for gearboxes/clutches etc.
Electric motors can be designed to be ideal for traction.
Max torque at zero rpm.

I could get that with a steam engine.

And a small one at that for a car. But AIUI, it's the condenser that's
the problem.


With a 24 gallon water tank, the 1924 Doble E had a 1500 mile range and
it could move off from cold in under 30 seconds.

Drivel.
Water is not fuel.
It actually did about 3mpg (equivalent)due to the inherent inefficiencies of steam engines and boilers.
Maintenence/repair costs were huge too.
Dobel was just a rich idiot.

On Thursday, 20 April 2017 08:48:46 UTC+1, Brian Gaff wrote:
It depends. Many do not have them and use motors driven a bit like those in
CD players with constant torque no matter ewhat speed, while others use gear
trains but motors running quite fast.

Drivel.

On Thursday, 20 April 2017 16:39:29 UTC+1, Brian Reay wrote:
On 19/04/2017 19:47, Murmansk wrote:
I've just been for a ride in someone's Nissan Leaf - it was impressive, so quiet and amazing acceleration.

Do electric cars have a gearbox (an automatic one I presume)? Or does the motor just run faster the faster you go? I was told by the owner the optimum speed for economy of battery usage is about 55mph.

It doesn't sound like it's changing gear.


We looked at the Tesla and were told it didn't have a gear box.

We decided against all electric, we don't like the idea of being stuck
with a 'flat' battery on a journey. The idea of stopping for 'top ups'
on a long journey is fine until you consider the practical aspects.


The practical aspects are
1. The charge point(s) are in use.
2. The charge point has been vandalised.
3. Some idiot has parked an ICE car in the charge bay.

On Thursday, 20 April 2017 20:09:44 UTC+1, newshound wrote:
On 4/20/2017 6:19 PM, Tim Streater wrote:
In article ,
newshound wrote:

On 4/20/2017 5:23 PM, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Brian Reay wrote:

On 19/04/2017 19:47, Murmansk wrote:
I've just been for a ride in someone's Nissan Leaf - it was
impressive, so
quiet and amazing acceleration.

Do electric cars have a gearbox (an automatic one I presume)? Or
does the
motor just run faster the faster you go? I was told by the owner
the optimum
speed for economy of battery usage is about 55mph.

It doesn't sound like it's changing gear.

We looked at the Tesla and were told it didn't have a gear box.

We decided against all electric, we don't like the idea of being
stuck with a 'flat' battery on a journey. The idea of stopping for
'top ups' on a long journey is fine until you consider the practical
aspects.

As a matter of interest, is anyone looking (as in considering making) a
hybrid electric? As in, rather than having a powerful petrol engine, a
less powerful electric motor, a normal size fuel tank and a smaller
battery (like my Toyota Auris), instead have a full-size electric
motor, larger battery, but with a small petrol engine and small fuel
tank?

That way one could stop anywhere to recharge or even do it on the go.

You mean like a Prius?

Which one. The Prius hybrid is just the same as my Auris hybrid.

Ah. Do you mean a Prius with a charging socket? I am almost sure I have
heard of a rechargeable electric with a small IC engine for optional
charging (but not a Prius). Maybe it was a prototype.

It's called a "Plug In Hybrid"
They are common
Eg Mitsubishi make one called PHEV.

On Friday, 21 April 2017 00:04:28 UTC+1, wrote:
On 20/04/2017 17:23, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Brian Reay wrote:

On 19/04/2017 19:47, Murmansk wrote:
I've just been for a ride in someone's Nissan Leaf - it was
impressive, so
quiet and amazing acceleration.

Do electric cars have a gearbox (an automatic one I presume)? Or does
the
motor just run faster the faster you go? I was told by the owner the
optimum
speed for economy of battery usage is about 55mph.

It doesn't sound like it's changing gear.

We looked at the Tesla and were told it didn't have a gear box.

We decided against all electric, we don't like the idea of being stuck
with a 'flat' battery on a journey. The idea of stopping for 'top ups'
on a long journey is fine until you consider the practical aspects.

As a matter of interest, is anyone looking (as in considering making) a
hybrid electric? As in, rather than having a powerful petrol engine, a
less powerful electric motor, a normal size fuel tank and a smaller
battery (like my Toyota Auris), instead have a full-size electric
motor, larger battery, but with a small petrol engine and small fuel
tank?

That way one could stop anywhere to recharge or even do it on the go.

A few months ago I went through the EV search, I think the ones with
small ICEs are called Range Extenders. I decided on a plug-in hybrid and
am very pleased with it - 208HP ICE and 80HP electric motor driving a
seven speed auto box with some magic arrangement of clutches that allows
one or both to drive, or neither, or to use the motor for regen braking.
All very clever but probably a maintenance nightmare when it gets old.

Wait until it breaks.
Then try and find someone to fix it.
The dealers lie BTW.

On 21/04/2017 00:04, wrote:
On 20/04/2017 17:23, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Brian Reay wrote:

On 19/04/2017 19:47, Murmansk wrote:
I've just been for a ride in someone's Nissan Leaf - it was
impressive, so
quiet and amazing acceleration.

Do electric cars have a gearbox (an automatic one I presume)? Or does
the
motor just run faster the faster you go? I was told by the owner the
optimum
speed for economy of battery usage is about 55mph.

It doesn't sound like it's changing gear.

We looked at the Tesla and were told it didn't have a gear box.

We decided against all electric, we don't like the idea of being stuck
with a 'flat' battery on a journey. The idea of stopping for 'top ups'
on a long journey is fine until you consider the practical aspects.

As a matter of interest, is anyone looking (as in considering making) a
hybrid electric? As in, rather than having a powerful petrol engine, a
less powerful electric motor, a normal size fuel tank and a smaller
battery (like my Toyota Auris), instead have a full-size electric
motor, larger battery, but with a small petrol engine and small fuel
tank?

That way one could stop anywhere to recharge or even do it on the go.

A few months ago I went through the EV search, I think the ones with
small ICEs are called Range Extenders. I decided on a plug-in hybrid and
am very pleased with it - 208HP ICE and 80HP electric motor driving a
seven speed auto box with some magic arrangement of clutches that allows
one or both to drive, or neither, or to use the motor for regen braking.
All very clever but probably a maintenance nightmare when it gets old.

Or like my Peugeot ICE drives front wheels, Electric motor drives rear
wheels. So I have 4WD when I need it, and silent running when in town
just to scare the natives:-)

Mike

On 21-Apr-17 8:41 AM, harry wrote:
On Thursday, 20 April 2017 17:41:08 UTC+1, Nightjar wrote:
On 20-Apr-17 8:18 AM, harry wrote:
On Wednesday, 19 April 2017 19:47:29 UTC+1, Murmansk wrote:
I've just been for a ride in someone's Nissan Leaf - it was impressive, so quiet and amazing acceleration.

Do electric cars have a gearbox (an automatic one I presume)? Or does the motor just run faster the faster you go? I was told by the owner the optimum speed for economy of battery usage is about 55mph.

It doesn't sound like it's changing gear.

Internal combustion engines are inherently unsuitable for traction, hence the need for gearboxes/clutches etc.
Electric motors can be designed to be ideal for traction.
Max torque at zero rpm.

I could get that with a steam engine.

A steam engine is not an ICE.

My point was that electric cars are not unique in that respect.

However this leads to skidding on moving from rest so most have some form of traction control.
Some electric cars have gearboxes but not many. Morgan was one of them.
When you have owned and electric car, you won't want to go back to petrol/diesel...

Before I even try one, somebody would have to make one that meets my
requirements: A large estate car with a 600+ mile range, able to cruise
comfortably at over 100mph (not necessarily both at the same time), with
full air conditioning, lots of electrical gadgets and capable of being
fully refilled in only a few minutes.


Few ICE cars can do this.

Mine can, which is why I chose it rather than something else, although I
did have to specify the extended fuel tank to get the range. No existing
electric cars could even get close.


--
--

Colin Bignell

On 21-Apr-17 8:47 AM, harry wrote:
On Thursday, 20 April 2017 19:24:26 UTC+1, Nightjar wrote:
On 20-Apr-17 6:18 PM, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Nightjar
wrote:

On 20-Apr-17 8:18 AM, harry wrote:
On Wednesday, 19 April 2017 19:47:29 UTC+1, Murmansk wrote:
I've just been for a ride in someone's Nissan Leaf - it was
impressive, so
quiet and amazing acceleration.

Do electric cars have a gearbox (an automatic one I presume)? Or
does the
motor just run faster the faster you go? I was told by the owner the
optimum speed for economy of battery usage is about 55mph.

It doesn't sound like it's changing gear.

Internal combustion engines are inherently unsuitable for traction,
hence
the need for gearboxes/clutches etc.
Electric motors can be designed to be ideal for traction.
Max torque at zero rpm.

I could get that with a steam engine.

And a small one at that for a car. But AIUI, it's the condenser that's
the problem.


With a 24 gallon water tank, the 1924 Doble E had a 1500 mile range and
it could move off from cold in under 30 seconds.

Drivel.
Water is not fuel.

I was answering the point about the condenser. However, recent advances
in catalytic splitting of water could make it feasible to use water as
fuel, if you really wanted to.

It actually did about 3mpg (equivalent)due to the inherent inefficiencies of steam engines and boilers.

It is said to have been comparable to internal combustion engines of the
time. Those have improved considerably since and there have been some
serious investigations of steam powered cars in recent years, which
suggest that steam cars could still be competitive, as well as being
inherently less polluting.

Maintenence/repair costs were huge too.

As they were for contemporary cars of the same class.

Dobel was just a rich idiot.

Rich visionary.


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Colin Bignell

On 21/04/2017 10:01, Tim Streater wrote:
In article ,
Muddymike wrote:

Or like my Peugeot ICE drives front wheels, Electric motor drives rear
wheels. So I have 4WD when I need it, and silent running when in town
just to scare the natives:-)

Can you put the ICE in reverse while the electric is going forwards?

To get a stretched limo? That is the sort of thing I would try if
possible:-) but no it has four selectable functions. Auto, Electric
only, 4WD, and Sport.

I like Sport, both motors work at once if the battery is well charged.
So it accelerates like a rocket!!!

Mike