I'd like to install a loft ladder - however the placement of the hatch isn't
ideal. The loft's ladders I've looked at on the web need space immediately
behind the hatch into which to push the collapsed ladder. My hatch is right
up against the wall in the loft and this is the only way which the ladder
can go up.

Any obvious solutions?

Thanks, Rob.

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Rob Nicholson wrote:

I'd like to install a loft ladder - however the placement of the
hatch isn't ideal. The loft's ladders I've looked at on the web need
space immediately behind the hatch into which to push the collapsed
ladder. My hatch is right up against the wall in the loft and this is
the only way which the ladder can go up.

Any obvious solutions?

Thanks, Rob.


I think I've seem some that concertina in order to fit within the hatch
space - but I can't remember where.
--
Cheers,
Set Square
______
Please reply to newsgroup. Reply address is Black Hole!

On Sun, 4 Jan 2004 18:21:22 -0000, "Rob Nicholson"
wrote:

I'd like to install a loft ladder - however the placement of the hatch isn't
ideal. The loft's ladders I've looked at on the web need space immediately
behind the hatch into which to push the collapsed ladder. My hatch is right
up against the wall in the loft and this is the only way which the ladder
can go up.

Any obvious solutions?

Thanks, Rob.


You can get folding wooden types which will fold within the footprint
of the hatch.

Look at

http://www.ladders-999.co.uk/loft_ladders_timber.htm

and Midmade Lux as a typical example.


I have two similar to this - one in the house and one in the garage to
access the boarded space above the joists.

There are different sizes and for some it may be necessary to lengthen
the hatch space. Basically you take out the existing hatch assembly
and replace it with the integrated ladder unit

One thing to watch for is the width. Most of these ladders are
designed to fit between ceiling joists that are 600mm on centre or
thereabouts, so the width of the casing is usually about 560 to 570mm.

The wooden ladder is also a lot more sturdy than aluminium ones that
I've had in the past and you don't waste any space in the loft. If
need be you can get off sideways as you get to the top.


..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

On Sun, 4 Jan 2004 18:40:45 -0000, "Set Square"
wrote:

I think I've seem some that concertina in order to fit within the hatch
space - but I can't remember where.

Loft ladder mounting has been the bane of my life this last year!

This loft ladder appears not to require additional space:

http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/...16318&ts=46971

However, a regular loft ladder might still do the trick - if some
thought was given to mounting it appropriately. If a wooden rail was
added about 8in into the loft area then it might be feasible to mount
the ladder and push it vertically upward when not in use.

However this does suggest some ingenuity would be required, and in
order for the loft ladder to be made available for use at the required
angle then the loft hatch would have to be rather wide! Plus the user
would need to be super careful when bringing the ladder down for use,
it could easily slip and come down at an alarming rate!

PoP

If you really must use the email address provided
with my newsreader please be aware that the email
is processed with spamcop. As a result your email
to me might be treated as spam!

"Rob Nicholson" wrote in message
...
I'd like to install a loft ladder - however the placement of the hatch
isn't
ideal. The loft's ladders I've looked at on the web need space immediately
behind the hatch into which to push the collapsed ladder. My hatch is
right
up against the wall in the loft and this is the only way which the ladder
can go up.

Any obvious solutions?


Depending on the size of your hatch, there are a couple of options here
http://tinyurl.com/2jtyt

Cheers
Clive

This loft ladder appears not to require additional space:

http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/...16318&ts=46971

From what I infer on the Screwfix site, this comes with a frame as well.

However, a regular loft ladder might still do the trick - if some
thought was given to mounting it appropriately. If a wooden rail was
added about 8in into the loft area then it might be feasible to mount
the ladder and push it vertically upward when not in use.

I'll have to spend some time up there having a closer look. A vertical
ladder might well work with all the caveats.

Cheers, Rob.

There are different sizes and for some it may be necessary to lengthen
the hatch space. Basically you take out the existing hatch assembly
and replace it with the integrated ladder unit

Thanks for the link - I'll get the ladder out and measure up the existing
hole, which just looking at the web-site picture isn't long enough. But at
least it can be lengthened quite easily. Luckly we're redecorating the whole
house so making a mess in extending isn't too bad.

Cheers, Rob.

On Sun, 4 Jan 2004 22:29:54 -0000, "Rob Nicholson"
wrote:

There are different sizes and for some it may be necessary to lengthen
the hatch space. Basically you take out the existing hatch assembly
and replace it with the integrated ladder unit

Thanks for the link - I'll get the ladder out and measure up the existing
hole, which just looking at the web-site picture isn't long enough. But at
least it can be lengthened quite easily. Luckly we're redecorating the whole
house so making a mess in extending isn't too bad.

Cheers, Rob.


You're welcome. The width is usually the issue, but if you do some
Googling on wooden loft ladder you should find a number of on line
sites with different widths.

After you have cut the hole, the installation technique is to put the
whole ladder assembly into the loft (you can unbolt the ladder
sections to make it lighter).

You then take a couple of lengths of timber (e.g. 75x25mm) about 1.5x
the gap between the joists and screw them to the ceiling
perpendicular to the joists ( screw into them). One piece goes towards
either end.

You then get into the loft and have a trusted assistant remove the
steps. The new ladder frame is then lowered into place onto these
timber pieces - this makes sure that it is flush with the underside of
the ceiling. You now pack any gaps between the sides of the frame and
the joists with thin wooden packing pieces before screwing through
each side of the frame into the joists. You can then climb down and
fix the ladder pieces on - there is a measuring procedure to get the
length and angle of the bottom section right were it meets the floor.

Finally, you can remove the temporary pieces of timber and make the
edges good. I used some narrow architrave screwed to the frame,
plugged and painted.

It took me a couple of hours to do the entire job. As I say, do
check the gap between joists carefully and at both ends of where the
frame will be. It is not unknown for joists not to be parallel :-)



..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

"Rob Nicholson" wrote in message
news:...
This loft ladder appears not to require additional space:

http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/...16318&ts=46971

From what I infer on the Screwfix site, this comes with a frame as well.

However, a regular loft ladder might still do the trick - if some
thought was given to mounting it appropriately. If a wooden rail was
added about 8in into the loft area then it might be feasible to mount
the ladder and push it vertically upward when not in use.

I'll have to spend some time up there having a closer look. A vertical
ladder might well work with all the caveats.

Cheers, Rob.

"Rob Nicholson" wrote in message
news:...
There are different sizes and for some it may be necessary to lengthen
the hatch space. Basically you take out the existing hatch assembly
and replace it with the integrated ladder unit

Thanks for the link - I'll get the ladder out and measure up the existing
hole, which just looking at the web-site picture isn't long enough. But at
least it can be lengthened quite easily. Luckly we're redecorating the
whole
house so making a mess in extending isn't too bad.

Cheers, Rob.

Apologies if this appears twice - NTL news server appears to be loosing
posts...

You're welcome. The width is usually the issue, but if you do some
Googling on wooden loft ladder you should find a number of on line
sites with different widths.

The existing hatch is 680mm wide on the outside and from the look of the one
from Screwfix, this is the same width. Length isn't too much of a problem as
there's space in the ceiling - just need to check there isn't a joist or
anything across there.

You then take a couple of lengths of timber (e.g. 75x25mm) about 1.5x
the gap between the joists and screw them to the ceiling
perpendicular to the joists ( screw into them). One piece goes towards
either end.

Ahh thanks - will check this. The existing hatch must fit into something but
thought it might need something on the other side.

You then get into the loft and have a trusted assistant remove the

Beverley!!

Finally, you can remove the temporary pieces of timber and make the
edges good. I used some narrow architrave screwed to the frame,
plugged and painted.

And have a cup of tea.

It took me a couple of hours to do the entire job. As I say, do
check the gap between joists carefully and at both ends of where the
frame will be. It is not unknown for joists not to be parallel :-)

I always try and expect the unexpected when it comes to DIY :-)

Thanks, Rob.

There are different sizes and for some it may be necessary to lengthen
the hatch space. Basically you take out the existing hatch assembly
and replace it with the integrated ladder unit

Darn - unfortunately, there is a joist running right across where I'd need
to extend the hatch lengthways :-(

However, I did see a concertina type one that might fit.

Cheers, Rob.

On Sat, 10 Jan 2004 15:47:20 -0000, "Rob Nicholson"
wrote:

There are different sizes and for some it may be necessary to lengthen
the hatch space. Basically you take out the existing hatch assembly
and replace it with the integrated ladder unit

Darn - unfortunately, there is a joist running right across where I'd need
to extend the hatch lengthways :-(

However, I did see a concertina type one that might fit.

Cheers, Rob.


Is it a joist or is it a noggin going between two joists - that's what
I'd expect.

If it is a noggin, it should be OK to put in another a bit further
along and take out the one that's in the way.



..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

If it is a noggin, it should be OK to put in another a bit further
along and take out the one that's in the way.

It's probably a noggin (great name) but this one is supporting one
corner/side of the water tanks and I'm reluctant to mess around with it.

Cheers, Rob.

On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 09:07:41 -0000, "Rob Nicholson"
wrote:

If it is a noggin, it should be OK to put in another a bit further
along and take out the one that's in the way.

It's probably a noggin (great name) but this one is supporting one
corner/side of the water tanks and I'm reluctant to mess around with it.

Cheers, Rob.

OK.

Is there another place (completely) that would be more convenient
perhaps?


..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

Is there another place (completely) that would be more convenient
perhaps?

That's a possibility yes - in the back bedroom. I'll have another look
tonight.

Cheers, Rob.

On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 10:08:06 -0000, "Rob Nicholson"
wrote:

Is there another place (completely) that would be more convenient
perhaps?

That's a possibility yes - in the back bedroom. I'll have another look
tonight.

Cheers, Rob.


I was just thinking that if you want to use the loft for storage (I
tend to use mine for light but bulky items) then having a) a
reasonable size opening) and b) a reasonably sturdy ladder is a good
idea.

I have previously had sliding aluminium ladders which push up and lay
flat in the space behind the hatch and the concertina type. They
are kind of OK, but not very substantial and I didn't feel too
comfortable taking things up and down. OTOH, if it were just for
access to check tanks etc. then it would have been OK.



..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

Any obvious solutions?

Thanks for all the suggestions everyone. In the end I went for the ALU-FIX
10 concertina loft ladder which whilst not the cheapest, was the only
practical solution due to the position of the hatch.

Just finished fitting it - took about four hours but I did also a) assemble
a new work bench and b) strengthen the existing hatch frame. The concertina
ladder is quite a scary piece of equipment with some strong springs that
hold it up in place. It sort of hangs over the opening, attached to a
vertical wooden board. Without extending/strengthen my existing hatch, this
would have been rocking on a 2" wide strip - didn't feel safe at all!

The plastic hook lasted all of two uses - as useless as a chocolate
fireguard!

So now I can move all the crap from downstairs ready for starting the
bathroom next weekend. Ho hum!

Cheers, Rob.

Just finished fitting it - took about four hours but I did also a)
assemble

PS. Would suggest having a strong friend on hand to hold the darn thing
whilst final screwing is carried out. My gf wimped out and my arms were
about to fall off at one point.

Cheers, Rob.

Rob Nicholson wrote:

Any obvious solutions?

Thanks for all the suggestions everyone. In the end I went for the ALU-FIX
10 concertina loft ladder which whilst not the cheapest, was the only
practical solution due to the position of the hatch.

How well does it perform: does it feel safe, and does it look
like it will last?

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK


Have dancing shoes, will ceilidh.

How well does it perform:

It performs very well although those springs are a bit fierce.

does it feel safe,

I'm not exactly small so it can take my weight :-) Get the angle right and
it feels as safe as a normal ladder with maybe a little give in the middle.

does it look like it will last?

It's certainly well made and the build quality is good, apart from
aforementioned useless plastic hook. It's not going to get a huge amount of
use and I probably wouldn't suggest it for daily access to a loft.

Cheers, Rob.