Home |
Search |
Today's Posts |
|
UK diy (uk.d-i-y) For the discussion of all topics related to diy (do-it-yourself) in the UK. All levels of experience and proficency are welcome to join in to ask questions or offer solutions. |
Reply |
|
LinkBack | Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#1
|
|||
|
|||
Putting a double glazed pane in an old frame
I have a deep window frame above my front door. It currently has a
single glazed pane in it. I was wondering whether anyone has had any experience getting a correct sized double glazed pane made up and fitting it into the existing frame. Are glazing companies willing to make a double glazed pane for this? And would it be cheap enough to be worthwhile. Also, would the double glazed pane fit OK into the existing pane? It is deep enough to accomodate the pane from what I can tell. Thanks in advance Jim |
#2
|
|||
|
|||
Putting a double glazed pane in an old frame
You can get sealed units made up, however there are issues with respect to
getting the units to last. Apparently they will fail ( mist up) if not fitted to allow for proper ventilation around the edges. And they require deeper rebates. Check out the following web site - they seem very knowledgeable on the forum: www.thewindowman.co.uk There is an "e-book" for download there, giving the ins and outs of fitting sealed units in old frames: http://www.thewindowman.co.uk/Ebook_...s_drainage.pdf Been meaning to try replacing one myself, but not got around to it yet... "coherers" "James W" wrote in message om... I have a deep window frame above my front door. It currently has a single glazed pane in it. I was wondering whether anyone has had any experience getting a correct sized double glazed pane made up and fitting it into the existing frame. Are glazing companies willing to make a double glazed pane for this? And would it be cheap enough to be worthwhile. Also, would the double glazed pane fit OK into the existing pane? It is deep enough to accomodate the pane from what I can tell. Thanks in advance Jim |
#3
|
|||
|
|||
Putting a double glazed pane in an old frame
James W wrote:
I have a deep window frame above my front door. It currently has a single glazed pane in it. I was wondering whether anyone has had any experience getting a correct sized double glazed pane made up and fitting it into the existing frame. Are glazing companies willing to make a double glazed pane for this? And would it be cheap enough to be worthwhile. Also, would the double glazed pane fit OK into the existing pane? It is deep enough to accomodate the pane from what I can tell. You need to be able to accommodate a unit at least 12mm thick. Most good DG companies will supply you with a sealed unit, and they are surprisingly cheap. I recently bought 8 of them (1.5x1.2m average) at about £50 each. The key point is that it must not end up sitting in a puddle of water in the frame. This is easily avoided through careful sealing. -- Grunff |
#4
|
|||
|
|||
Putting a double glazed pane in an old frame
"James W" wrote in message om... I have a deep window frame above my front door. It currently has a single glazed pane in it. I was wondering whether anyone has had any experience getting a correct sized double glazed pane made up and fitting it into the existing frame. Are glazing companies willing to make a double glazed pane for this? And would it be cheap enough to be worthwhile. Also, would the double glazed pane fit OK into the existing pane? It is deep enough to accomodate the pane from what I can tell. We've double glazed our whole house by getting the glass company to make factory sealed units to exactly the size we specified. That's thirty five (I think) units. Spouse fitted them over a couple of years so the cost - which was VERY low - wasn't felt at all. They've been perfect in every way. There has been absoutely no misting. They were easy to fit (he does know what he's doing but with a little care and intelligence anyone could do it - it's safer than single pane glazing). The key is accurate measuring. For the largest panes - up to 4' square - it needed two people because the units are heavy (on two ladders for 1st floor lights); for others one person inside and one outside was a help but not absolutely necessary. He did our 1st floor bedroom the week after being discharged from hospital after a hip replacement. What I like best is that we retain the timber frames and don't have the reduced light which is inevitable with plastic frames. The relative cost was unbelievably low and we were in control at all times. The only disruption was one pane being out at any one time - at our convenience. Go for it. Mary Thanks in advance Jim |
#5
|
|||
|
|||
Putting a double glazed pane in an old frame
On Sun, 18 Jan 2004 20:04:12 -0000, "Mary Fisher"
wrote: "James W" wrote in message . com... I have a deep window frame above my front door. It currently has a single glazed pane in it. I was wondering whether anyone has had any experience getting a correct sized double glazed pane made up and fitting it into the existing frame. Are glazing companies willing to make a double glazed pane for this? And would it be cheap enough to be worthwhile. Also, would the double glazed pane fit OK into the existing pane? It is deep enough to accomodate the pane from what I can tell. We've double glazed our whole house by getting the glass company to make factory sealed units to exactly the size we specified. That's thirty five (I think) units. Spouse fitted them over a couple of years so the cost - which was VERY low - wasn't felt at all. They've been perfect in every way. There has been absoutely no misting. They were easy to fit (he does know what he's doing but with a little care and intelligence anyone could do it - it's safer than single pane glazing). The key is accurate measuring. For the largest panes - up to 4' square - it needed two people because the units are heavy (on two ladders for 1st floor lights); for others one person inside and one outside was a help but not absolutely necessary. He did our 1st floor bedroom the week after being discharged from hospital after a hip replacement. What I like best is that we retain the timber frames and don't have the reduced light which is inevitable with plastic frames. The relative cost was unbelievably low and we were in control at all times. The only disruption was one pane being out at any one time - at our convenience. Go for it. Mary Are you talking about sash frames and windows here, Mary? How did you fit in the units and did you have to add to the sash weights if they were sashes? ..andy To email, substitute .nospam with .gl |
#6
|
|||
|
|||
Putting a double glazed pane in an old frame
"Andy Hall" wrote in message ... On Sun, 18 Jan 2004 20:04:12 -0000, "Mary Fisher" wrote: "James W" wrote in message . com... I have a deep window frame above my front door. It currently has a single glazed pane in it. I was wondering whether anyone has had any experience getting a correct sized double glazed pane made up and fitting it into the existing frame. Are glazing companies willing to make a double glazed pane for this? And would it be cheap enough to be worthwhile. Also, would the double glazed pane fit OK into the existing pane? It is deep enough to accomodate the pane from what I can tell. We've double glazed our whole house by getting the glass company to make factory sealed units to exactly the size we specified. That's thirty five (I think) units. Spouse fitted them over a couple of years so the cost - which was VERY low - wasn't felt at all. They've been perfect in every way. There has been absoutely no misting. They were easy to fit (he does know what he's doing but with a little care and intelligence anyone could do it - it's safer than single pane glazing). The key is accurate measuring. For the largest panes - up to 4' square - it needed two people because the units are heavy (on two ladders for 1st floor lights); for others one person inside and one outside was a help but not absolutely necessary. He did our 1st floor bedroom the week after being discharged from hospital after a hip replacement. What I like best is that we retain the timber frames and don't have the reduced light which is inevitable with plastic frames. The relative cost was unbelievably low and we were in control at all times. The only disruption was one pane being out at any one time - at our convenience. Go for it. Mary Are you talking about sash frames and windows here, Mary? How did you fit in the units and did you have to add to the sash weights if they were sashes? No, sorry, I should have specified.I suppose it they had been sashes I'd have said so. But I don't suppose he'd have been daunted by sashes and he has a collection of lead which he occasionally casts into moulds for various purposes. Working out the required added weight for the counterbalances would have been the cerebral part of the exercise. Mary .andy To email, substitute .nospam with .gl |
#7
|
|||
|
|||
Putting a double glazed pane in an old frame
On 18 Jan 2004 10:43:50 -0800, James W wrote:
I have a deep window frame above my front door. It currently has a single glazed pane in it. I was wondering whether anyone has had any experience getting a correct sized double glazed pane made up and fitting it into the existing frame. Are glazing companies willing to make a double glazed pane for this? And would it be cheap enough to be worthwhile. Also, would the double glazed pane fit OK into the existing pane? It is deep enough to accomodate the pane from what I can tell. Thanks in advance Jim Just in case you find that there is not enough depth for a double glazing unit, it is possible to have a stepped unit made - ie the two panes of glass are different sizes and the metal spacer is the size of the smaller pane, allowing the unit to fit a rebate meant only for single glazing, held in pace only by the larger pane. Steve W |
#8
|
|||
|
|||
Putting a double glazed pane in an old frame
Waste of money. If it's broken and needs replacing double glazing
still a waste of money - don't bother. cheers Jacob |
#9
|
|||
|
|||
Putting a double glazed pane in an old frame
In article ,
James W wrote: I have a deep window frame above my front door. It currently has a single glazed pane in it. I was wondering whether anyone has had any experience getting a correct sized double glazed pane made up and fitting it into the existing frame. Yup - did this recently. Are glazing companies willing to make a double glazed pane for this? And would it be cheap enough to be worthwhile. Also, would the double glazed pane fit OK into the existing pane? It is deep enough to accomodate the pane from what I can tell. Yes - any decent glazier will order up a double glazed panel in any size. But it can't just be fitted with putty - it needs to be fully sealed against rain and must be in a flexible seal so when the frame moves slightly it doesn't get subject to twisting, etc. The glazier will supply materials and details. If it's in a rebate it will probably have to be enlarged. If it's got planted on beading, then this can be changed or moved. -- *If a parsley farmer is sued, can they garnish his wages? Dave Plowman London SW 12 RIP Acorn |
#10
|
|||
|
|||
Putting a double glazed pane in an old frame
Heat loss through windows rule of thumb is about 10%.
Double glazing halves this and so saves 5% of heating component of fuel bills. Typically about £500 p.a. hence saving £25 p.a. Really not worth the bother. Higher proportion of heat lost through windows if the house is highly insulated but the small saving is the same i.e. larger % of smaller bill - still not worth it. Add in rapid obsolescence of DG units makes it very costly - they all mist up eventually. Better to increase loft insulation, reduce draughts, thicker curtains etc etc. Cheaper to install new gas condensing CH boiler will save much more. Double glazing expensive con. cheers Jacob |
#11
|
|||
|
|||
Putting a double glazed pane in an old frame
"jacob" wrote in message m... Heat loss through windows rule of thumb is about 10%. Double glazing halves this and so saves 5% of heating component of fuel bills. Typically about £500 p.a. hence saving £25 p.a. Really not worth the bother. There are other considerations than cost, even if your figures were universally accurate. Add in rapid obsolescence of DG units makes it very costly - they all mist up eventually. Not in my experience. It probably depends on the quality of the original units. Better to increase loft insulation, reduce draughts, thicker curtains During the day? Double glazing increases the comfort of a house, you can sit (as we do) close to uncurtained windows on the coldest of days and still be comfortable. Down draughts from single glazed windows can be shown by holding a candle flame near to them. The candle will flicker and gutter, it won't with an efficiently double glazed window. etc etc. Cheaper to install new gas condensing CH boiler will save much more. Double glazing expensive con. That depends on who does it. If you do it yourself (this IS a DIY ng) it is not expensive and you have control of the whole process. Yes, efficient insulation and draughtproofing are very important in the whole scheme of things but you won't dissuade me about the desirability of dg. You seem to either believe what you have no experience of or have had an unfortunate experience. It's not everyone's experience. Mary |
#12
|
|||
|
|||
Putting a double glazed pane in an old frame
In 'The Which Book of Plumbing & Central Heating' the heat loss quoted
for single glazed wooden windows is 5 W/sq.metre/deg C and for DG wooden or plastic windows is 2.9 ditto. This means DG saves 42% heat loss. Similar figures are quoted elsewhere, say approx 50% as a rule, of average 10% heat loss of whole house i.e. about 5% overall. If you work it out on paper every other way of reducing heat loss from simple draught measures up to replacing old boiler with modern high efficiency boiler, will cost less than whole house DG but save more or at least be more cost efficient. In other words DG is the last thing you should bother with - only after putting into place ALL the other measures especially loft insulation - and even then is not worth it unless you have money to burn. You can work it out for yourself. cheers Jacob |
#13
|
|||
|
|||
Putting a double glazed pane in an old frame
In article ,
jacob wrote: In other words DG is the last thing you should bother with - only after putting into place ALL the other measures especially loft insulation - and even then is not worth it unless you have money to burn. You can work it out for yourself. Whilst this may be true, double glazing seems to reduce draughts, so the overall temperature can often be reduced with no loss of comfort. -- * What do they call a coffee break at the Lipton Tea Company? * Dave Plowman London SW 12 RIP Acorn |
#14
|
|||
|
|||
Putting a double glazed pane in an old frame
In article ,
"Mary Fisher" wrote: Double glazing increases the comfort of a house, you can sit (as we do) close to uncurtained windows on the coldest of days and still be comfortable. Actually, one of the things I like about windows is you can sit next to them if you want to be a bit cooler but everyone else doesn't. OTOH Jacob's calculations are on heat loss and not including getting rid of unwanted heat gain. So how much would I save, Jacob, on my summer air/con power bills if I double glazed (which I won't). Figure on air/con being 'on' for a total of about 5 months a year [June - September plus bits and pieces in other months. |
#16
|
|||
|
|||
Putting a double glazed pane in an old frame
Simon Gardner wrote:
In article , "Mary Fisher" wrote: Double glazing increases the comfort of a house, you can sit (as we do) close to uncurtained windows on the coldest of days and still be comfortable. Actually, one of the things I like about windows is you can sit next to them if you want to be a bit cooler but everyone else doesn't. You can sit next to my SG windows wit the same result actually. Being small in area and hermetically sealed, they are onot that cold. DG is a bit of a con. Far more heat is lose through uninsulated walls and draughts. OTOH Jacob's calculations are on heat loss and not including getting rid of unwanted heat gain. So how much would I save, Jacob, on my summer air/con power bills if I double glazed (which I won't). Figure on air/con being 'on' for a total of about 5 months a year [June - September plus bits and pieces in other months. |
#17
|
|||
|
|||
Putting a double glazed pane in an old frame
OTOH Jacob's calculations are on heat loss and not including getting rid of
unwanted heat gain. So how much would I save, Jacob, on my summer air/con power bills if I double glazed (which I won't). Figure on air/con being 'on' for a total of about 5 months a year [June - September plus bits and pieces in other months. Dunno - you'll have to work it out for yourself! Can't say I've ever suffered from unwanted heat gain in Britain. I'd open the windows and generate a bit of through draught. The french have the answer to summer heat - high ceilings, large windows opening inwards with slatted shutters closed on the outside - bliss, who needs air conditioning? cheers Jacob |
#18
|
|||
|
|||
Putting a double glazed pane in an old frame
"jacob" wrote in message om... Dunno - you'll have to work it out for yourself! Can't say I've ever suffered from unwanted heat gain in Britain. I'd open the windows and generate a bit of through draught. The french have the answer to summer heat - high ceilings, large windows opening inwards with slatted shutters closed on the outside - bliss, who needs air conditioning? So why don't you live in france ? Mary cheers Jacob |
#19
|
|||
|
|||
Putting a double glazed pane in an old frame
OTOH Jacob's calculations are on heat loss and not including getting rid of
unwanted heat gain. So how much would I save, Jacob, on my summer air/con power bills if I double glazed (which I won't). Figure on air/con being 'on' for a total of about 5 months a year [June - September plus bits and pieces in other months. Come to think - summer heat gain would be based on difference between reasonable room temp say 65F and high summer air temp say 85F - 20deg F difference. Not a lot compared to winter frost, say - 5F; heat loss based on temp difference of 70 deg F. Hence DG contribution summer saving less than a 3rd of winter saving on any particular day with these temperatures. It would depend on the frequency of high/low temps and the efficiency of cooling compared to heating. I'd guess cooling less efficient than heating but I don't know. Opening windows a cheaper and more pleasant option. cheers Jacob |
#21
|
|||
|
|||
Putting a double glazed pane in an old frame
"Mary Fisher" wrote in message ...
"jacob" wrote in message om... Dunno - you'll have to work it out for yourself! Can't say I've ever suffered from unwanted heat gain in Britain. I'd open the windows and generate a bit of through draught. The french have the answer to summer heat - high ceilings, large windows opening inwards with slatted shutters closed on the outside - bliss, who needs air conditioning? So why don't you live in france ? Mary Good point. Employment the main prob I suppose. We go there a lot for hols (cycle touring). People with holiday homes often seem pinned down whereas we can go to any part of France. Best thing is to know people with 2nd homes and go and visit them, rather than having ones own. cheers Jacob |
#22
|
|||
|
|||
Putting a double glazed pane in an old frame
"jacob" wrote in message om... "Mary Fisher" wrote in message ... "jacob" wrote in message om... Dunno - you'll have to work it out for yourself! Can't say I've ever suffered from unwanted heat gain in Britain. I'd open the windows and generate a bit of through draught. The french have the answer to summer heat - high ceilings, large windows opening inwards with slatted shutters closed on the outside - bliss, who needs air conditioning? So why don't you live in france ? Mary Good point. Employment the main prob I suppose. We go there a lot for hols (cycle touring). People with holiday homes often seem pinned down whereas we can go to any part of France. Best thing is to know people with 2nd homes and go and visit them, rather than having ones own. Or you could shell a bit out and make your windows oopen inwards and fix slatted shutters on the outside then you'll have your own bliss. I wonder how many deaths of French people that saved during last year's torrid conditions ... |
#23
|
|||
|
|||
Putting a double glazed pane in an old frame
On Sun, 18 Jan 2004 20:04:12 -0000, "Mary Fisher"
wrote: We've double glazed our whole house by getting the glass company to make factory sealed units to exactly the size we specified. That's thirty five (I think) units. Spouse fitted them over a couple of years so the cost - which was VERY low - wasn't felt at all. We replace with these when a window gets broken. No problems with them at all. (Wooden frames about 20 years old.) An added advantage is when getting telesales calls from DG companies, the determined ones who ask you whether you have replacement windows quickly shut up and go away when you tell them you have fitted sealed units to existing sound windows as they realise you are not going to fall for their speil. -- Niall |
#24
|
|||
|
|||
Putting a double glazed pane in an old frame
Just spotted this in the grauniad
cheers Jacob Scientists' survival tip: go with the flow Tim Radford, science editor Thursday August 7, 2003 The Guardian British scientists have just issued a hot tip for survival when the fan has broken down and the thermometer is up. It saves energy and exploits everyday household technology. Just open a window, says Gary Hunt, who leads research at Imperial College London into the fluid mechanics of natural ventilation. It helps to have a sash window in the right place and at the right height. "Many of us have forgotten how to correctly use the sash windows so carefully installed by the Edwardians and Victorians to maximise airflow," he said. "If used correctly it is possible to significantly improve comfort in the office or at home without using air conditioning units that place high demands on energy and increase carbon dioxide emissions." He used a small laboratory model to simulate the average home as a hothouse and keep track of cool airflow through rooms and buildings. It is best to have your sash window open equally top and bottom. That way cooler air flows into the room through the lower opening and flushes the warm air out through the top. If the windows are too small, or badly placed, however, hot air is trapped at ceiling level and extends down to make the inhabitants unpleasantly hot and muggy. "Our research shows a good strategy is to leave sash windows in the mid-position overnight - providing it is safe to do so," he says. "The cool external air flushes the warm air of of the room and also cools the walls, floor and ceiling. The cool walls absorb the heat the following day and prevent the internal from temperatures rising as high." |
#26
|
|||
|
|||
Putting a double glazed pane in an old frame
|
#28
|
|||
|
|||
Putting a double glazed pane in an old frame
In article ,
(jacob) wrote: rnet[dot]co[dot]uk (Simon Gardner) wrote in message ... In article , (jacob) wrote: "The cool external air flushes the warm air of of the room and also cools the walls, floor and ceiling. The cool walls absorb the heat the following day and prevent the internal from temperatures rising as high." This is completely pointless, however, when the external air is not cool - as it wasn't last August, or the August before that or the August before that. The external air will be cool relative to the internal air so there would be some benefit. Not in my house it won't - and there wouldn't. If not it would make sense to sleep with all the windows closed during a heat wave. It certainly does - as long as the lovely, lovely aircon is functioning properly. |
#29
|
|||
|
|||
Putting a double glazed pane in an old frame
"The cool external air flushes the warm air of of the room and also
cools the walls, floor and ceiling. The cool walls absorb the heat the following day and prevent the internal from temperatures rising as high." This is completely pointless, however, when the external air is not cool - as it wasn't last August, or the August before that or the August before that. Another afterthought - if Simon doesn't think opening windows has any benefit in hot weather does this mean that he has spent the last 3 very hot Augusts with windows closed? If so he would have been extremely uncomfortable. This could account for his enthusiasm for air conditioning, which most of us can do without, having discovered the benefits of opening windows in hot weather. Conversely I wonder if he opens all his windows in winter and turns up the central heating? cheers Jacob |
#30
|
|||
|
|||
Putting a double glazed pane in an old frame
|
Reply |
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Forum | |||
Use BOTH hands to open new double glazed door? | UK diy | |||
Trouble fixing handle/closing mechanism on double glazed window | UK diy | |||
Cracked outer double glazing pane | UK diy |