Our 1930's 45 degree bay fronted semi has been suffering from a sagging bay
since we bought it in May (well, its been suffering from it for longer than
that it appears!). This was the cause of some cladding to pop off a while
back (and a posting about what to stick it back on with).

Firstly an explanation of the symptoms:

Upstairs small (2mm?) crack showing in plaster at edge of the bay. After
removing plaster can see a 1cm gap at the top (window ledge height) going to
0cm at the bottom. This had obviously been replastered in the past.

Downstairs, the inside window ledge dips down slightly (enough to notice by
eye) at back of the corners where the large wooden supports go. Window sill
is otherwise flat and level.

Cladding (which is fitted against bottom of external window sill) popped off
in 1 place. Suspect that its happened before on other corner due to slight
differing of mortar colour.


Now, after taking a good look at the area exposed by the popped cladding I
believe I have now sourced the cause of the sagging. The underside of the
exterior window sill is very rotten. I can very easily push something into
it. The front part (which extends past the cladding) is okay, but gets
worse as you get further back towards the brickwork. From what I can see,
the bit exterior wooden sill (part of the whole window frame) sits directly
on the front wall of the cavity. If this sill has rotten, then the sill is
slowly being pressed/compacted into the brickwork as the wood rots further.

Does this sound like a reasonable explanation? If so, would replacing the
whole window be a suitable solution? I'm not thinking about curing the
slight drop in the upper bay as this appears to be stable - and once the
source of the dropping has been solved, it shouldn't move any further. In
the year we've been there, we've not noticed any further dropping - the
popped off cladding was just leaning off since we got it - so its not
suddenly popped that off.

I can't see that replacing the sill is going to be easy because its part of
the window frame, and would probably need the windows to be removed anyway
to get access. Removing windows means propping up the bay... whilst that's
being done, seems easy to put in new windows!

We had hoped on replacing the windows (old wooden frames with poor aluminium
double glazing) at some point - but if the structure of the house pretty
much depends on the windows being replaced, then it may be more urgent and
important to get it done sooner rather than later.

Any thoughts?

Thanks

David

We had hoped on replacing the windows (old wooden frames with poor
aluminium
double glazing) at some point - but if the structure of the house pretty
much depends on the windows being replaced, then it may be more urgent and
important to get it done sooner rather than later.

Any thoughts?

Thanks

David

Sounds like a replacement window is in order David,
I'm not sure a repair is possible, to get the window out would require the
removal of the glass in most cases.
Send for the window fitters !!!!!!!
I put hardwood bay windows in my last house, stained them, beautiful
!!!!!!!!
everybody complimented on them. This house has upvc plastic and not a patch
on wood.
mike

David Hearn wrote:
Our 1930's 45 degree bay fronted semi has been suffering from a
sagging bay since we bought it in May (well, its been suffering from
it for longer than that it appears!). This was the cause of some
cladding to pop off a while back (and a posting about what to stick
it back on with).

Firstly an explanation of the symptoms:

Upstairs small (2mm?) crack showing in plaster at edge of the bay.
After removing plaster can see a 1cm gap at the top (window ledge
height) going to 0cm at the bottom. This had obviously been
replastered in the past.

Downstairs, the inside window ledge dips down slightly (enough to
notice by eye) at back of the corners where the large wooden supports
go. Window sill is otherwise flat and level.

Cladding (which is fitted against bottom of external window sill)
popped off in 1 place. Suspect that its happened before on other
corner due to slight differing of mortar colour.


Now, after taking a good look at the area exposed by the popped
cladding I believe I have now sourced the cause of the sagging. The
underside of the exterior window sill is very rotten. I can very
easily push something into it. The front part (which extends past
the cladding) is okay, but gets worse as you get further back towards
the brickwork. From what I can see, the bit exterior wooden sill
(part of the whole window frame) sits directly on the front wall of
the cavity. If this sill has rotten, then the sill is slowly being
pressed/compacted into the brickwork as the wood rots further.

Does this sound like a reasonable explanation? If so, would
replacing the whole window be a suitable solution? I'm not thinking
about curing the slight drop in the upper bay as this appears to be
stable - and once the source of the dropping has been solved, it
shouldn't move any further. In the year we've been there, we've not
noticed any further dropping - the popped off cladding was just
leaning off since we got it - so its not suddenly popped that off.

I can't see that replacing the sill is going to be easy because its
part of the window frame, and would probably need the windows to be
removed anyway to get access. Removing windows means propping up the
bay... whilst that's being done, seems easy to put in new windows!

We had hoped on replacing the windows (old wooden frames with poor
aluminium double glazing) at some point - but if the structure of the
house pretty much depends on the windows being replaced, then it may
be more urgent and important to get it done sooner rather than later.

Any thoughts?

Thanks

David

In houses of that era the woodwork of the window frame is structural.
Its not unknown for them to collapse, happened to a friend of mine.
Also replacement doubleglazing obviously needs to have this taken into
account e.g with steel reinforcing bars inserted.
This is not obvious though to some cowboy companies.

"David Hearn" wrote in message ...
Our 1930's 45 degree bay fronted semi has been suffering from a sagging bay
since we bought it in May (well, its been suffering from it for longer than

Any thoughts?


Yes, a most ambiguous post.

N. Thornton wrote:
"David Hearn" wrote in message
...
Our 1930's 45 degree bay fronted semi has been suffering from a
sagging bay since we bought it in May (well, its been suffering from
it for longer than

Any thoughts?


Yes, a most ambiguous post.

What was ambiguous about it?

Thanks

D

"David Hearn" wrote in message


Yes, a most ambiguous post.

What was ambiguous about it?

You don't say what is built into the exterior angles of the lower window
to stop the second floor falling in on you when you eventually remove
the bottom window.

Windows are not egineered to take the weight of the building, they just
provide cheap infill in the manner of wattle and daub or brick panels in
timber framed (i.e. Tudor) houses. Fitted into a wall they reqire
lintles.

With a wooden bay they may have the sides extended all the way
to the top. With replacements this problem could be solved by just
cutting the old bits out and putting in replacements that are going to
sag after the fitters have been paid. Probably after the guarantee has
expired or the firm that supplied them has changed hands/gone
broke/found out what the fitters did.



--
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG

Does this link help?

http://www.axp.mdx.ac.uk/~john49/epi3.htm

Michael McNeil wrote:
"David Hearn" wrote in message


Yes, a most ambiguous post.

What was ambiguous about it?

You don't say what is built into the exterior angles of the lower
window to stop the second floor falling in on you when you eventually
remove the bottom window.

Windows are not egineered to take the weight of the building, they
just provide cheap infill in the manner of wattle and daub or brick
panels in timber framed (i.e. Tudor) houses. Fitted into a wall they
reqire lintles.

With a wooden bay they may have the sides extended all the way
to the top. With replacements this problem could be solved by just
cutting the old bits out and putting in replacements that are going to
sag after the fitters have been paid. Probably after the guarantee has
expired or the firm that supplied them has changed hands/gone
broke/found out what the fitters did.

Hence why we'll be using a company which has experience doing other bays in
our locality (preferably recommended by someone we known) and have been
trading under the same name for at least as long as their guarantee period.

Put it this way, the majority of houses in our road have PCVu windows and
all have bays. A couple have signs of bay drops being repaired (repointing
etc) so we're well aware of potential problems.

As for windows not being engineered to take load - the URL in the other
reply explains a lot about problems with dropped bays and new windows -
however points out the cause as being "the metal inserts in the window frame
elements 'X' were not fitted, or fitted incorrectly. ...Unfortunately over
time, with a constant load, PVC creeps, slowly lowering the upper bay. This
is why the metal inserts are needed." PVCu windows aren't incompatible with
bays - they just have to make sure that adequate provisions are made for
taking the weight.

Incidentally, our bay is already sagging due to the wood the vertical
supports sit on being rotten - hence why we need to replace that part, which
is likely to require removal of old windows.

D