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Carl
 
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Default WARNING TO VAILLANT ECOMAX 6 & 8 SERIES BOILER OWNERS

This is not spam

On Friday night my Vaillant Ecomax 828/2E boiler (fitted June 2003) sprang a
leak and drenched the whole bathroom and kitchen underneath. The cost of
repairs is going to be considerable.

The boiler engineer came out Saturday and established the leak as a fault or
error as part of the manufacturing/assembling process. Inside these modern
boilers a lot of pipework is held together by spring clips which sit in
grooves and hold the copper piping - complete with rubber O-ring - in place
and sealed.

Well that is the theory. My main water feed to the boiler which will be
the first bit of pipework with these spring-clip connections came apart and
leaked. There is mains pressure in this pipework but fortunately for me the
pipe did not completely detach.

The cause of the problem, according to my installer, was that the spring
clip was NOT firmly and correctly seated in place and he went on to say the
the top bit of the clip (shaped like a horizontal "U") was in its groove but
the bottom part of the clip was not. Over time and with boiler use -
temperature changes, pressure fluctuations, humidity, vibration, etc, the
clip has failed to retain fully the copper pipe inside its fitting among the
boiler components and started leaking (pouring in my case).

This is part of the boiler that installers should not touch or interfere
with during the installation process as they are "ready to go". It is also
highly unlikely that these clips could come loose during any transportation
once they have left the factory. Which leaves an error on the production
line - i.e the clip was not fitted properly by someone in the factory. This
makes Vailllant liable I guess.

The reason these clips are fitted I am told is to make things quicker to
change over should components in your boiler fail. There are no compression
joints or soldered joints to mess about with, just pull a couple of clips
and replace the bad component. I personally don't like this. Had I known
that my water mains pressure was being held in by a clip on a pipe I would
not have gone down the Ecomax route.

There could also be design faults with these boilers and how the pipe
retention clips are used/made but I haven't heard about design problems from
Vaillant yet. Anyway my water poured all over my circuit board although the
installer dried it out with a hairdryer and got it working again. The
Vaillant engineer is coming on Tuesday and I will speak to him then about
potential design defects (and compensation).

If my installer is adamant he did not partly dislodge this clip and Vaillant
say there clip was firmly seated in place on the production line then a
design fault becomes more alarming and probable.

I urge you all to check your component parts inside the boiler and check all
these spring clips (there are several) to make sure they are firmly seated
top and bottom in their grooves. And if anyone else has had problems of
this nature pleas let me know.

Regards,

~Carl


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Lee Blaver
 
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Default WARNING TO VAILLANT ECOMAX 6 & 8 SERIES BOILER OWNERS

Carl wrote:

Snip

There could also be design faults with these boilers and how the pipe
retention clips are used/made but I haven't heard about design problems from
Vaillant yet. Anyway my water poured all over my circuit board although the
installer dried it out with a hairdryer and got it working again. The
Vaillant engineer is coming on Tuesday and I will speak to him then about
potential design defects (and compensation).


I can fully understand your mission to attach blame to Vaillant, but the
older non-condenser versions also use these clips and there most be many
thousands of these boilers installed. If there was a design fault, with
these clips then I would suspect that it would have surfaced by now.

Lee

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To reply use lee.blaver and ntlworld.com

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BillR
 
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Default WARNING TO VAILLANT ECOMAX 6 & 8 SERIES BOILER OWNERS

Lee Blaver wrote:
Carl wrote:

Snip

There could also be design faults with these boilers and how the pipe
retention clips are used/made but I haven't heard about design
problems from Vaillant yet. Anyway my water poured all over my
circuit board although the installer dried it out with a hairdryer
and got it working again. The Vaillant engineer is coming on
Tuesday and I will speak to him then about potential design defects
(and compensation).


I can fully understand your mission to attach blame to Vaillant, but
the older non-condenser versions also use these clips and there most
be many thousands of these boilers installed. If there was a design
fault, with
these clips then I would suspect that it would have surfaced by now.

Lee


A Vokera I recently installed appeared to have very similar clips.


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BigWallop
 
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Default WARNING TO VAILLANT ECOMAX 6 & 8 SERIES BOILER OWNERS


"Carl" wrote in message
...
This is not spam

On Friday night my Vaillant Ecomax 828/2E boiler (fitted June 2003) sprang

a
leak and drenched the whole bathroom and kitchen underneath. The cost of
repairs is going to be considerable.

The boiler engineer came out Saturday and established the leak as a fault

or
error as part of the manufacturing/assembling process. Inside these

modern
boilers a lot of pipework is held together by spring clips which sit in
grooves and hold the copper piping - complete with rubber O-ring - in

place
and sealed.

Well that is the theory. My main water feed to the boiler which will be
the first bit of pipework with these spring-clip connections came apart

and
leaked. There is mains pressure in this pipework but fortunately for me

the
pipe did not completely detach.

The cause of the problem, according to my installer, was that the spring
clip was NOT firmly and correctly seated in place and he went on to say

the
the top bit of the clip (shaped like a horizontal "U") was in its groove

but
the bottom part of the clip was not. Over time and with boiler use -
temperature changes, pressure fluctuations, humidity, vibration, etc, the
clip has failed to retain fully the copper pipe inside its fitting among

the
boiler components and started leaking (pouring in my case).

This is part of the boiler that installers should not touch or interfere
with during the installation process as they are "ready to go". It is

also
highly unlikely that these clips could come loose during any

transportation
once they have left the factory. Which leaves an error on the production
line - i.e the clip was not fitted properly by someone in the factory.

This
makes Vailllant liable I guess.

The reason these clips are fitted I am told is to make things quicker to
change over should components in your boiler fail. There are no

compression
joints or soldered joints to mess about with, just pull a couple of clips
and replace the bad component. I personally don't like this. Had I known
that my water mains pressure was being held in by a clip on a pipe I would
not have gone down the Ecomax route.

There could also be design faults with these boilers and how the pipe
retention clips are used/made but I haven't heard about design problems

from
Vaillant yet. Anyway my water poured all over my circuit board although

the
installer dried it out with a hairdryer and got it working again. The
Vaillant engineer is coming on Tuesday and I will speak to him then about
potential design defects (and compensation).

If my installer is adamant he did not partly dislodge this clip and

Vaillant
say there clip was firmly seated in place on the production line then a
design fault becomes more alarming and probable.

I urge you all to check your component parts inside the boiler and check

all
these spring clips (there are several) to make sure they are firmly seated
top and bottom in their grooves. And if anyone else has had problems of
this nature pleas let me know.

Regards,

~Carl



I'd put it down to over stressing on the installation. If the installer has
to connect pipework to the section that failed inside the boiler, then there
is the chance that the installer could put to much strain on this section
and pull the joint apart. I don't think it's a matter of a recall by
Vaillant, but more a point of getting an installer who is competent at
fitting boilers.


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David Hearn
 
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Default WARNING TO VAILLANT ECOMAX 6 & 8 SERIES BOILER OWNERS

Carl wrote:
This is not spam

On Friday night my Vaillant Ecomax 828/2E boiler (fitted June 2003)
sprang a leak and drenched the whole bathroom and kitchen underneath.
The cost of repairs is going to be considerable.

The boiler engineer came out Saturday and established the leak as a
fault or error as part of the manufacturing/assembling process.
Inside these modern boilers a lot of pipework is held together by
spring clips which sit in grooves and hold the copper piping -
complete with rubber O-ring - in place and sealed.


I guess its now difficult to get Vaillant to acccept that it was their fault
if the engineer has dismantled the connection and re-made it.

Not much else you could have done really I guess as you needed a quick fix,
but seeing as it was still in warranty, it may have been worth calling
Vaillant's engineers.

I don't know your boiler engineer and how honest he is - but I would not be
surprised for any tradesperson looking at the damage and judging the the
cost of repairs to bathroom and kitchen, that even if it was a problem with
his installation - he'd have passed the buck somewhere if he could.

Remember though, AFAIK, if he supplied the boiler and fitted it, then your
contract is with him - even if the problem is with Vaillant and can be
rectified etc under warranty. This came up before with using a faulty
Pushfit fitting and a leak happening - you're unlikely to ever get any
compensation from Pushfit (or B&Q who sold the part)- partly because its
practically impossible to prove once the part has been fixed/changed etc -
and also because the contract was with whoever fitted it. This is where his
Public Liability Insurance should kick in. Don't automatically assume that
as he says its a problem with Vaillant's manufacturing process, that he has
no responsibility in fixing the situation (and the damage). I'm not saying
he's responsible for fixing the damage - but that its possible that its more
likely his responsibility that Vaillant's but even that depends possibly on
his T's&C's of working and how long he guarantees the work for etc.
uk.legal may be able to help further.

David





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Carl
 
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Default WARNING TO VAILLANT ECOMAX 6 & 8 SERIES BOILER OWNERS

Thanks for your posts. It seems I may have a legal argument on my hands as
to who is responsible. The clip that failed inside the boiler is right at
the bottom inside the case. My installer explained that during installation
the mains pipe connection is fitted underneath the boiler and not anywhere
near this clip fitting so I don't see how he could stress it loose. The
only thing he would pass over ther failed pipework would be the electric
plug leads for the control panel. I dont really care who is responsible as
long as someone pays. The installers explanation seemed plausible but he
did say that as Vaillaint are huge company I might not get any joy from
them. Having said that his parting shot was that from now on he would check
all the spring clip fittings upon completion of installation to make sure
they were fitted correctly at the factory. An admission of responsibility
here? I dunno. All I know is it wasn't me!

~Carl


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