I'm not looking for a solution to a problem here - I'm just interested
why a plumber would have done something like this!

Went to install a dishwasher in a flat this morning. Started wrecking
the kitchen cabinet below the work surface, the cabinet was to be
replaced by the dishwasher.

As soon as I removed the bottom shelf of the cabinet I saw the
showstopper - two 15mm pipes which had been brought out of the floor
by approx 3in (75mm), joined by a solder fitting, then taken back down
into the floor. These formed an inverted 'U' shape in the pipework. In
over 30 years of being involved in DIY projects I have never seen this
sort of implementation before.

The pipes appear to have run from the boiler in the kitchen to the
bathroom - turning on the hot tap in the bathroom caused the pipe(s)
to get hot.

Now, the question is, why on earth have these pipes been taken out of
the floor like this to perform a simple joint???? Is this some sort of
expansion joint, or just a pipe jockey who couldn't be arsed to do the
job properly?

It is very unlikely that the bathroom was added as an extension to
this flat afterwards, so those pipes would've been put in at build
time.

Supplementary question: Am I chasing a mad plumber around the district
in which I live and work? This is a completely different development
to the bath fiasco in a flat which I reported a few days ago.....

PoP

On Tue, 16 Dec 2003 15:52:23 +0000, PoP
wrote:

I'm not looking for a solution to a problem here - I'm just interested
why a plumber would have done something like this!

Went to install a dishwasher in a flat this morning. Started wrecking
the kitchen cabinet below the work surface, the cabinet was to be
replaced by the dishwasher.

As soon as I removed the bottom shelf of the cabinet I saw the
showstopper - two 15mm pipes which had been brought out of the floor
by approx 3in (75mm), joined by a solder fitting, then taken back down
into the floor. These formed an inverted 'U' shape in the pipework. In
over 30 years of being involved in DIY projects I have never seen this
sort of implementation before.

The pipes appear to have run from the boiler in the kitchen to the
bathroom - turning on the hot tap in the bathroom caused the pipe(s)
to get hot.

Now, the question is, why on earth have these pipes been taken out of
the floor like this to perform a simple joint???? Is this some sort of
expansion joint, or just a pipe jockey who couldn't be arsed to do the
job properly?

If there were a very long pipe run possibly, but the normal thing with
copper pipe under floors (if done properly) was to wrap in Denso tape
( the gooey stuff) to protect the pipe and allow for movement.

Presumably this inverted U is too far out from the wall to fit the
dishwasher and you now have a broken cabinet as well and nothing to
show for it.



It is very unlikely that the bathroom was added as an extension to
this flat afterwards, so those pipes would've been put in at build
time.

Supplementary question: Am I chasing a mad plumber around the district
in which I live and work? This is a completely different development
to the bath fiasco in a flat which I reported a few days ago.....

There are so many bodgers around in all trades that nothing surprises
me.....




PoP

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

On Tue, 16 Dec 2003 17:21:09 +0000, Andy Hall
wrote:

Presumably this inverted U is too far out from the wall to fit the
dishwasher and you now have a broken cabinet as well and nothing to
show for it.

Yes, about a foot away from the wall.

Fortunately I hadn't got so far with breaking the cabinet that I
couldn't put it back together again, so that's an option. Have left it
slightly dismantled so that the chap can show his wife when she comes
in from work, and they can discuss the options - none of which looks
delightful.

I have advised the flat owner to consult a CH engineer to see if these
pipes could be reformed and laid flat - looks doable to me, though
some drainage of the water pipes will need to be done.

If it was my own place I'd be happy to do it, but with another flat
downstairs and not being 100% sure I'd rather not take the risk that
something could go awry (especially at this time of year....). Someone
else can carry the can for that.

PoP

On Tue, 16 Dec 2003 15:52:23 +0000, PoP wrote:

Now, the question is, why on earth have these pipes been taken out of
the floor like this to perform a simple joint???? Is this some sort of
expansion joint, or just a pipe jockey who couldn't be arsed to do the
job properly?

Could the sink (or washer) have been there previously? Maybe the pipe came
up to the sink then was teed off for the bathroom.

"PoP" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 16 Dec 2003 17:21:09 +0000, Andy Hall
wrote:

Presumably this inverted U is too far out from the wall to fit the
dishwasher and you now have a broken cabinet as well and nothing to
show for it.

Yes, about a foot away from the wall.

Fortunately I hadn't got so far with breaking the cabinet that I
couldn't put it back together again, so that's an option. Have left it
slightly dismantled so that the chap can show his wife when she comes
in from work, and they can discuss the options - none of which looks
delightful.

I have advised the flat owner to consult a CH engineer to see if these
pipes could be reformed and laid flat - looks doable to me, though
some drainage of the water pipes will need to be done.

That'd be the trick - a wet'n'dry vac would help here. Is the floor
concrete? If so it's an SDS hammer job and a slip joint to join the pipe, if
wood just a board or 2 up.



--
John Stumbles
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-|-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
-+
a town is never big enough to support one lawyer, but it can always support
two

On Tue, 16 Dec 2003 19:11:17 -0000, "John Stumbles"
] wrote:

That'd be the trick - a wet'n'dry vac would help here. Is the floor
concrete? If so it's an SDS hammer job and a slip joint to join the pipe, if
wood just a board or 2 up.

It is a concrete floor, but around these pipes is a sort of "loose"
concrete screed. I tried picking at it with my fingers but it didn't
really give - though I suspect using a small chisel and hammer would
have done the trick. I'd have thought an SDS would have seen a hole in
the ceiling of the flat below

The pipes to/from this raised section appear to be laid under wooden
boards - I tapped my way across the kitchen floor towards the bathroom
with the end of a screwdriver and it definitely changed the sound when
I moved off the pipe ducting.

PoP

PoP wrote:

Hello PoP

P| Now, the question is, why on earth have these pipes been
P| taken out of the floor like this to perform a simple
P| joint???? Is this some sort of expansion joint, or just a
P| pipe jockey who couldn't be arsed to do the
P| job properly?

Is it likely it once supplied something there which has now been
removed, and the feed for the bathroom was taken from there as "it's
convenient and out of sight"?

I can't see it being easier to add two 90' bends under the floor to
bring up the pipe to make it easier to add another.

--
Simon Avery, Dartmoor, UK
uk.d-i-y FAQ: http://www.diyfaq.org.uk/