What's the best make? And possibly one that can be repaired when it starts
leaking?

--
*I started out with nothing... and I still have most of it.

Dave Plowman London SW 12
RIP Acorn

On Sun, 07 Dec 2003 23:20:18 +0000 (GMT), Dave Plowman
wrote:

What's the best make? And possibly one that can be repaired when it starts
leaking?

I've got Invensys ones (Drayton), which I've had for 18 years

Approx 3 of them have had new heads about 5 years ago, the rest are
fine Ultimately all TRV heads fail and generally it's that they
become insensitive to temperature change and as you turn the control
the valve clunks on and off. Most manufacturers suggest about a 7
year life, so I am pretty happy.

None of the valve bases have failed at all, and I don't know of anyone
who has had one fail. The neoprene gaskets are available for
Drayton AFAIK.

The heads can be bought separately but are not repairable AFAICS.




..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

In article ,
Andy Hall wrote:
What's the best make? And possibly one that can be repaired when it starts
leaking?

I've got Invensys ones (Drayton), which I've had for 18 years

Crikey. Mine seem to average about 5. I've had several different makes,
but just the sheds own brands.

Approx 3 of them have had new heads about 5 years ago, the rest are
fine Ultimately all TRV heads fail and generally it's that they
become insensitive to temperature change and as you turn the control
the valve clunks on and off. Most manufacturers suggest about a 7
year life, so I am pretty happy.

Mine all start leaking. Can't say I've ever actually tried to repair them,
since draining down the system is the real pain rather than changing the
valve. One has just gone in a big way in the kitchen, so that's tomorrow
taken care of. But I'm considering changing the whole lot as it's a while
since the last one failed, and they're not all the same age.

None of the valve bases have failed at all, and I don't know of anyone
who has had one fail. The neoprene gaskets are available for
Drayton AFAIK.

The heads can be bought separately but are not repairable AFAICS.

Not really a problem since they're so easy to change.

--
*Never miss a good chance to shut up.*

Dave Plowman London SW 12
RIP Acorn

On Mon, 08 Dec 2003 01:33:36 +0000 (GMT), Dave Plowman
wrote:

In article ,
Andy Hall wrote:
What's the best make? And possibly one that can be repaired when it starts
leaking?

I've got Invensys ones (Drayton), which I've had for 18 years

Crikey. Mine seem to average about 5. I've had several different makes,
but just the sheds own brands.

Looking on the Plumbcenter site, Drayton, Myson, Pegler etc. are all
at around £15 list. Last time I bought a couple, I managed to get
them down to £12 without too much problem.

Probably if you bought ten or so, you could do better than that.....


Approx 3 of them have had new heads about 5 years ago, the rest are
fine Ultimately all TRV heads fail and generally it's that they
become insensitive to temperature change and as you turn the control
the valve clunks on and off. Most manufacturers suggest about a 7
year life, so I am pretty happy.

Mine all start leaking. Can't say I've ever actually tried to repair them,
since draining down the system is the real pain rather than changing the
valve. One has just gone in a big way in the kitchen, so that's tomorrow
taken care of. But I'm considering changing the whole lot as it's a while
since the last one failed, and they're not all the same age.

If they're all of the same type, then there's a fairly good chance
that others will fail. As you say, draining down and replacing
inhibitor unless you keep the water, becomes a pain.

Given the situation, I think I'd bite the bullet and swap the lot in
one go. Once you get organised, it goes pretty quickly.



None of the valve bases have failed at all, and I don't know of anyone
who has had one fail. The neoprene gaskets are available for
Drayton AFAIK.

The heads can be bought separately but are not repairable AFAICS.

Not really a problem since they're so easy to change.

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

In message , Dave Plowman
writes
In article ,
Andy Hall wrote:
What's the best make? And possibly one that can be repaired when it starts
leaking?

I've got Invensys ones (Drayton), which I've had for 18 years

Crikey. Mine seem to average about 5. I've had several different makes,
but just the sheds own brands.

I fitted Drayton TR4's almost 7 years ago when I did our CH, not had any
problems with any of them yet.


--
Chris French, Leeds

What's the best make? And possibly one that can be repaired when it starts
leaking?

I've got Invensys ones (Drayton), which I've had for 18 years

Crikey. Mine seem to average about 5. I've had several different makes,
but just the sheds own brands.

I fitted Drayton TR4's almost 7 years ago when I did our CH, not had any
problems with any of them yet.


B and Q - £5 odd - noisy from start leaking after 6 months - changing to Drayton

Nick

In article ,
Andy Hall wrote:
If they're all of the same type, then there's a fairly good chance
that others will fail. As you say, draining down and replacing
inhibitor unless you keep the water, becomes a pain.

Given the situation, I think I'd bite the bullet and swap the lot in
one go. Once you get organised, it goes pretty quickly.

I've had a look at the Drayton ones and there's a major snag. They have
what I'd describe as conventional compression fittings to the incoming
pipe.

Mine have a male 'nut' which fits into the female housing, rather than
the more usual compression fitting type female cap and male body. To
change to the Drayton ones would mean removing the olives so I could
change the entire thing rather than re-using the nut part and existing
olive as I've done before.

So any alternative make that is a direct replacement or should I just go
for replacement Homebase ones - assuming they haven't changed the design...

The thought of trying to remove that number of olives doesn't appeal - I'd
rather just pay up and leave the problem for another 5 years...

--
*Money isn't everything, but it sure keeps the kids in touch.

Dave Plowman London SW 12
RIP Acorn

"Nick Smith" wrote in
:



B and Q - £5 odd - noisy from start leaking after 6 months - changing
to Drayton

Nick



Wickes - same price - no problems after 2 years. Dunno who make the wickes
ones.

"Dave Plowman" wrote in message ...

What's the best make?

Danfoss, IMHO.

And possibly one that can be repaired when it starts leaking?

Have never known them leak. Have known them stick shut, over summer in a
badly sludged system, but they are easily unstuck without the need to drain
down and with no more than a few cc of water spilt.

That will be 2d please.
--
Andy

"Danny Monaghan" wrote in message
...
"Nick Smith" wrote in
:



B and Q - £5 odd - noisy from start leaking after 6 months - changing
to Drayton

Nick



Wickes - same price - no problems after 2 years. Dunno who make the wickes
ones.

Pegler Terrier II (from Screwfix). £8.99 each (or £7.99 for 10 or more).
No problems after 12 hours.

D

"Dave Plowman" wrote in message
...
What's the best make? And possibly one that can be repaired when it starts
leaking?

I have always used Danfoss Randall, but I've just ordered some Pegler ones
from Screwfix to see how they go. It is supposed to be a decent brand so we
shall see.

In article ,
Dave Plowman wrote:
So any alternative make that is a direct replacement or should I just go
for replacement Homebase ones - assuming they haven't changed the
design...

To follow up, I had a trawl of all the DIY palces and PMs, and of course
non do a direct replacment for the type I have which I think came from
Homebase - which has changed hands in the interim.

So taking Andy Hall's advice I bought Drayton from my local Plumbase.
15.67 squids each after discount, so about twice the price of shed ones.

Looks like I'll have to change the stub pipes into the rads as well - I
hope the PTFE tape has prevented corrosion since they're about 25 years
old...

So 10 olives and stubs to remove without damage. Think I'll leave it till
tomorrow to get a full day at it.

--
*If vegetable oil comes from vegetables, where does baby oil come from? *

Dave Plowman London SW 12
RIP Acorn

On Mon, 8 Dec 2003 10:16:37 +0000 (UTC), Danny Monaghan
wrote:

"Nick Smith" wrote in
:


B and Q - £5 odd - noisy from start leaking after 6 months - changing
to Drayton

Wickes - same price - no problems after 2 years. Dunno who make the wickes
ones.

Westherm, I think. I have a mix of them and some cheapies from B&Q, all
were about £6. After 6-7 years, none have leaked and the one or two that
seem to be inaccurate have been like that for some time.

--
What is the sound of one modem connecting?

Mail john rather than nospam...

In article ,
Andy Hall writes:
On Mon, 08 Dec 2003 01:33:36 +0000 (GMT), Dave Plowman
wrote:

In article ,
Andy Hall wrote:
What's the best make? And possibly one that can be repaired when it starts
leaking?

I've got Invensys ones (Drayton), which I've had for 18 years

Crikey. Mine seem to average about 5. I've had several different makes,
but just the sheds own brands.

Looking on the Plumbcenter site, Drayton, Myson, Pegler etc. are all
at around £15 list. Last time I bought a couple, I managed to get
them down to £12 without too much problem.

Probably if you bought ten or so, you could do better than that.....

I think I got them for around £9 when buying them together
with the radiators. This was from a small independant (AFAIK)
plumbers merchant in the high street (who for reasons I don't
understand, often puts the bits into a plumbcenter bag).

That reminds me -- I keep meaning to find a supplier for the
adjusting tool which allows you to use them for flow balancing
adjustment too.

Has anyone done this? The instructions say you can only turn
the adjustment one way, but I presume if you go too far, there's
some way back, like turning it all the way round again or
something? Instructions don't say.

--
Andrew Gabriel

On Mon, 08 Dec 2003 10:13:00 +0000 (GMT), Dave Plowman
wrote:

Mine have a male 'nut' which fits into the female housing, rather than
the more usual compression fitting type female cap and male body. To
change to the Drayton ones would mean removing the olives so I could
change the entire thing rather than re-using the nut part and existing
olive as I've done before.

I'm not sure I would assume any compatibility across makes if you wish to
retain the existing threaded fitting. I think I have some of these - is the
olive a strange tapered thing that closes over slightly at the top and
actually sits on the end of the pipe rather than sliding up and down it ?

--
I used to be disgusted, but now I try to be amused.

Mail john rather than nospam...

In article , Andy Wade spambucket
@ajwade.clara.co.uk writes

Danfoss, IMHO.

I have those. Must be 15-20 years old.

Have never known them leak. Have known them stick shut, over summer in a
badly sludged system,

One or two of mine sometimes stick over the summer, but energetically
working them open and closed a few times seems to cure it.

but they are easily unstuck without the need to drain
down and with no more than a few cc of water spilt.

Any chance of more info?

"Andrew Gabriel" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Andy Hall writes:
On Mon, 08 Dec 2003 01:33:36 +0000 (GMT), Dave Plowman
wrote:

In article ,
Andy Hall wrote:
What's the best make? And possibly one that can be repaired when it
starts
leaking?

I've got Invensys ones (Drayton), which I've had for 18 years

Crikey. Mine seem to average about 5. I've had several different makes,
but just the sheds own brands.

Looking on the Plumbcenter site, Drayton, Myson, Pegler etc. are all
at around £15 list. Last time I bought a couple, I managed to get
them down to £12 without too much problem.

Probably if you bought ten or so, you could do better than that.....

I think I got them for around £9

What make did you buy?


---
--

Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.548 / Virus Database: 341 - Release Date: 05/12/2003

"Andy Wade" wrote
"Dave Plowman" wrote

What's the best make?

Danfoss, IMHO.

I was sold one of these by PTS. Fearsomely expensive, but seem to be
good quality compared to the shed cheapies.

I only needed one anyway !

Cheers,

Paul.

On Mon, 08 Dec 2003 13:32:49 +0000 (GMT), Dave Plowman wrote:

So 10 olives and stubs to remove without damage. Think I'll leave it
till tomorrow to get a full day at it.

See other recent thread about olive removal. Four major approaches:

1) Don't bother, use more gunk/PTFE and hope. But that doesn't apply
to your case.

2) Slide hammer improvised from an adjustable spanner. Only works if
they are very loose.

3) Careful use of junior hacksaw and big screwdriver. My prefered
method.

4) Nifty olive removal tool available for about =A330 all in. URL in the=

other thread, ah I book marked it:

http://www.tooled-up.com/Product.asp...er=3DAffWindow

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

In article ,
Dave Liquorice wrote:
So 10 olives and stubs to remove without damage. Think I'll leave it
till tomorrow to get a full day at it.

See other recent thread about olive removal. Four major approaches:

1) Don't bother, use more gunk/PTFE and hope. But that doesn't apply
to your case.
Yup.

2) Slide hammer improvised from an adjustable spanner. Only works if
they are very loose.

I'm hoping...

3) Careful use of junior hacksaw and big screwdriver. My prefered
method.

It's the one I use, but supporting a pipe sticking up out of the floor
ain't easy. And some of them aren't that accessible. And I'm getting too
old for bending down all day.

4) Nifty olive removal tool available for about £30 all in. URL in the
other thread, ah I book marked it:

http://www.tooled-up.com/Product.asp...rrer=AffWindow

I'll have a look. Wonder how much space it needs?

--
*Parenthetical remarks (however relevant) are (usually) unnecessary *

Dave Plowman London SW 12
RIP Acorn

On Tue, 09 Dec 2003 01:39:13 +0000 (GMT), Dave Plowman wrote:

It's the one I use, but supporting a pipe sticking up out of the
floor ain't easy.

Block of wood with a just clearance 15mm hole in it and a screw to
hold it down to the floor?

And some of them aren't that accessible. And I'm getting too
old for bending down all day.

Bending isn't a problem but my knees object after a few hours,

I'll have a look. Wonder how much space it needs?

From the look of the picture not a lot at for quite a long way around
the tip. Obviously a foot or deep and 4" wide for the grips at 90deg
to the olive/pipe.

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

On Tue, 09 Dec 2003 07:36:53 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:


Bending isn't a problem but my knees object after a few hours,

Gel kneepads are really helpful for this
..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...

On Tue, 09 Dec 2003 07:36:53 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:

Bending isn't a problem but my knees object after a few hours,

Gel kneepads are really helpful for this

What exactly are they? Most people get cold on their knees at they protrude
outwards acting as a good heat sink. Knee warmers are fine for this.


---
--

Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.548 / Virus Database: 341 - Release Date: 05/12/2003

On Tue, 9 Dec 2003 15:07:58 -0000, "IMM" wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
.. .

On Tue, 09 Dec 2003 07:36:53 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:

Bending isn't a problem but my knees object after a few hours,

Gel kneepads are really helpful for this

What exactly are they? Most people get cold on their knees at they protrude
outwards acting as a good heat sink. Knee warmers are fine for this.


The issue is pressure on the knee joints from prolonged kneeling and
is a common problem for plumbers and others who work on their knees a
lot like floor tilers, gardeners, Monica Lewinsky etc.

I tried a few different kinds of ordinary ones but found them
inadequate for various reasons - uncomfortable, too small etc. .


I found gel filled ones in Home Depot in the U.S. and bought a large
size pair. These use the same idea as gel filled wrist wrests for
PCs.

They are now available here as well.

http://www.axminster.co.uk/default.asp?part=640011


The plastic shell on the front is flexible but fairly tough. The
gel pads are built into the cloth that is in front of and around the
knees.

I've used these for several hours at a time and find them really good
to use.







---

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

On Tue, 09 Dec 2003 15:00:15 +0000, Andy Hall
wrote:

Gel kneepads are really helpful for this

I don't know about Gel kneepads, but thanks to a suggestion on this
very newsgroup several months ago I bought a set of kneepads despite
never having used them before - and it was one of the best investments
I ever made!

PoP

Job went fine with no snags. The funny design of TRVs was actually a help,
as the 'top hat' olives are easy to remove without damaging the pipe - you
simply saw through the top part and slightly down the side and they break
with a screwdriver.

Since the new TRVs are reversible, I took the opportunity to swap ends on
three of the rads where this would make them more accessible. I've also
put them horizontal this time - be interested to see if they control the
temp any more accurately being sited slightly further away from the heat
source.

The water when drained down was amazingly clean - as were the dribbles
from the rads. A tribute to Fernox in a pretty old system. I'll put in the
fresh tomorrow after a final check for leaks.

--
*If you lived in your car, you'd be home by now *

Dave Plowman London SW 12
RIP Acorn

On Tue, 09 Dec 2003 18:05:29 +0000 (GMT), Dave Plowman
wrote:

Job went fine with no snags. The funny design of TRVs was actually a help,
as the 'top hat' olives are easy to remove without damaging the pipe - you
simply saw through the top part and slightly down the side and they break
with a screwdriver.

Since the new TRVs are reversible, I took the opportunity to swap ends on
three of the rads where this would make them more accessible. I've also
put them horizontal this time - be interested to see if they control the
temp any more accurately being sited slightly further away from the heat
source.


I've done that with a few and I think it does improve behaviour a bit.


The water when drained down was amazingly clean - as were the dribbles
from the rads. A tribute to Fernox in a pretty old system. I'll put in the
fresh tomorrow after a final check for leaks.

One wonders why people *don't* put this in. It's very cheap
insurance.

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

In article ,
Andy Hall wrote:
The water when drained down was amazingly clean - as were the dribbles
from the rads. A tribute to Fernox in a pretty old system. I'll put in
the fresh tomorrow after a final check for leaks.

One wonders why people *don't* put this in. It's very cheap insurance.

Cowboy plumbers. Saving the cost won't cause problems within warranty time.

My brother has a BG or whatever service contract, and they did the
original installation. I've lost count of how many rads they've changed
through them corroding and leaking. I'm told they don't use any inhibitor.

--
*One tequila, two tequila, three tequila, floor.

Dave Plowman London SW 12
RIP Acorn

"Mike Tomlinson" wrote in message ...

[Danfoss TRVs]
but they are easily unstuck without the need to drain
down and with no more than a few cc of water spilt.

Any chance of more info?

1. Ensure that the system pump is not running.

2. Remove the TRV sensor head.

3. Unscrew & remove the 'gland seal' - this is the central hex headed
brass assembly which holds the actuator pin. The innards of the
valve are now exposed and a slight seepage of water is usual at
this point.

4. Using something small and round, such as a small electrical
screwdriver, feel inside for the recess that the actuator pin
engages with; this is one end of a rod with the valve cone on its
other end. _Gently_ attempt to push this rod from side to side with
a circular or waggling motion, increasing the force applied until
you start to feel the valve un-stick. The internal spring does the
rest and the rod will pop outwards by a few mm, accompanied by a
little gush of water (have old towels ready).

5. Quickly replace the gland seal and tighten.

6. Press on the actuator pin and ensure that it returns under spring
pressure - you can easily distinguish between stuck and unstuck
valves by the feel of their pins.

7. Replace the head.

HTH
--
Andy

In article , Andy Wade spambucket
@ajwade.clara.co.uk writes

Any chance of more info?

1. Ensure that the system pump is not running.

[snip instructions]

Very useful, thank you. Printed and filed for reference

--
A. Top posters.
Q. What's the most annoying thing on Usenet?

Hey aren't you the same Dave Plowman that said the following:

Not all newsreaders support threading, and not all like using it.

You carry on being the odd one out. Do you drive on the right hand side of
the road too?

These are criticisms made against me for not making reference to a previous
thread and yet you done exactly the same in a thread about TRV's posted
09/12/2003 ?????


What's it like to be caught out and embarrassed.

HYPOCRITE

Mike P.
************************************

Below is the content of your thread without reference to the subject!.


"Dave Plowman" wrote in message
...
Job went fine with no snags. The funny design of TRVs was actually a help,
as the 'top hat' olives are easy to remove without damaging the pipe - you
simply saw through the top part and slightly down the side and they break
with a screwdriver.

Since the new TRVs are reversible, I took the opportunity to swap ends on
three of the rads where this would make them more accessible. I've also
put them horizontal this time - be interested to see if they control the
temp any more accurately being sited slightly further away from the heat
source.

The water when drained down was amazingly clean - as were the dribbles
from the rads. A tribute to Fernox in a pretty old system. I'll put in the
fresh tomorrow after a final check for leaks.

--
*If you lived in your car, you'd be home by now *
Dave Plowman London SW 12
RIP Acorn

"Mike P" wrote in message
...
Hey aren't you the same Dave Plowman that said the following:

Not all newsreaders support threading, and not all like using it.

You carry on being the odd one out. Do you drive on the right hand side
of
the road too?

These are criticisms made against me for not making reference to a
previous
thread and yet you done exactly the same in a thread about TRV's
posted
09/12/2003 ?????

What's it like to be caught out and embarrassed.

HYPOCRITE

Mike,

You hit the nail on the head Mike. This what he wears, yes he does...he
said...
"Well, I got a rather flash pair of DeWalt boots from TLC, so there.;-)"

Mike, sad isn't it.

He also attempts to give advise and criticise views on heating, yet he
said...

"Mine managed over 10 years without being touched before it needed a clean.
'Sooting up' once it starts, happens very quickly."

He didn't have his gas boiler serviced for over 10 years.

I know what you mean Mike. I know what you mean.



---
--

Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.548 / Virus Database: 341 - Release Date: 05/12/2003

In article ,
IMM wrote:
You hit the nail on the head Mike. This what he wears, yes he does...he
said... "Well, I got a rather flash pair of DeWalt boots from TLC, so
there.;-)"

Mike, sad isn't it.

He also attempts to give advise and criticise views on heating, yet he
said...

"Mine managed over 10 years without being touched before it needed a
clean. 'Sooting up' once it starts, happens very quickly."

He didn't have his gas boiler serviced for over 10 years.

I'm flattered that you should remember my posts from years back.

I wish I could return the compliment, but yours tend to get forgotten even
while reading.

I know what you mean Mike. I know what you mean.

At last you've found a soul mate. Can we expect a happy event?

--
*Hard work pays off in the future. Laziness pays off now *

Dave Plowman London SW 12
RIP Acorn