Uncle Peter made this incredible statement:

"This is a fact. -20C air does not make you cold, . You might shiver
if you were naked, but the shivering will stop you getting any colder".

To me, it sounds like he's talking absolute bull**** and he should be
sent to the funny farm, but is there an element of truth in what he
said?....Anyone know?

Bod wrote

Uncle Peter made this incredible statement:

"This is a fact. -20C air does not make you cold, .
You might shiver if you were naked, but the
shivering will stop you getting any colder".

To me, it sounds like he's talking absolute bull****
and he should be sent to the funny farm, but is
there an element of truth in what he said?....

Nope. Its certainly possible to be quite active when
naked in -20C air and do fine, but just standing there
naked and shivering wont let you survive for long.

In spades if there is a decent wind and -20C

Anyone know?

Plenty do.

On 31/10/2014 04:56, Bod wrote:
Uncle Peter made this incredible statement:

"This is a fact. -20C air does not make you cold, . You might shiver
if you were naked, but the shivering will stop you getting any colder".

To me, it sounds like he's talking absolute bull**** and he should be
sent to the funny farm, but is there an element of truth in what he
said?....Anyone know?

He is talking rubbish as usual. That is why I have him in my kill file.

--
Peter Crosland

Reply address is valid

The body does shiver for a while to keep warm, but there are limits, and
that seems to be governed by your core temperature dropping by nearly 2
degrees. Of course prolonged cold make the body keep the blood inside the
bodies main organs, shutting circulation off to extremities. if this goes
on too long tissue dies, ie frostbbite etc.

So its all in the timing and the core temperature. Of course if your
clothing starts to get wet as well and there is a wind, then you have far
less time to do something about it.
Brian

--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active
"Bod" wrote in message
...
Uncle Peter made this incredible statement:

"This is a fact. -20C air does not make you cold, . You might shiver if
you were naked, but the shivering will stop you getting any colder".

To me, it sounds like he's talking absolute bull**** and he should be
sent to the funny farm, but is there an element of truth in what he
said?....Anyone know?

On 31/10/2014 07:55, Brian Gaff wrote:
The body does shiver for a while to keep warm, but there are limits, and
that seems to be governed by your core temperature dropping by nearly 2
degrees. Of course prolonged cold make the body keep the blood inside the
bodies main organs, shutting circulation off to extremities. if this goes
on too long tissue dies, ie frostbbite etc.

So its all in the timing and the core temperature. Of course if your
clothing starts to get wet as well and there is a wind, then you have far
less time to do something about it.
Brian


A mate of mine died from hypothermia, fully clothed, inside his flat in
the month of May. He was incredibly drunk though

On 31/10/2014 08:32, stuart noble wrote:
On 31/10/2014 07:55, Brian Gaff wrote:
The body does shiver for a while to keep warm, but there are limits, and
that seems to be governed by your core temperature dropping by nearly 2
degrees. Of course prolonged cold make the body keep the blood inside the
bodies main organs, shutting circulation off to extremities. if this
goes
on too long tissue dies, ie frostbbite etc.

So its all in the timing and the core temperature. Of course if your
clothing starts to get wet as well and there is a wind, then you have far
less time to do something about it.
Brian


A mate of mine died from hypothermia, fully clothed, inside his flat in
the month of May. He was incredibly drunk though


Blimey! Sorry to hear that.

On Fri, 31 Oct 2014 04:56:45 +0000, Bod wrote:

Uncle Peter made this incredible statement:

"This is a fact. -20C air does not make you cold, . You might shiver
if you were naked, but the shivering will stop you getting any colder".

To me, it sounds like he's talking absolute bull**** and he should be
sent to the funny farm, but is there an element of truth in what he
said?

No.

On Friday, 31 October 2014 04:56:48 UTC, Bod wrote:
Uncle Peter made this incredible statement:

"This is a fact. -20C air does not make you cold, . You might shiver
if you were naked, but the shivering will stop you getting any colder".

To me, it sounds like he's talking absolute bull**** and he should be
sent to the funny farm, but is there an element of truth in what he
said?....Anyone know?

You could always get him to prove it, as in try it post a vid. to youtube.
They say that as you approach Hyperthermia you start to feel warm/hot and remove your cloths.
Of course -20C air doesn't make you cold unless you're actually exposed to it.

On 31/10/2014 11:14, whisky-dave wrote:
On Friday, 31 October 2014 04:56:48 UTC, Bod wrote:
Uncle Peter made this incredible statement:

"This is a fact. -20C air does not make you cold, . You might shiver
if you were naked, but the shivering will stop you getting any colder".

To me, it sounds like he's talking absolute bull**** and he should be
sent to the funny farm, but is there an element of truth in what he
said?....Anyone know?

You could always get him to prove it, as in try it post a vid. to youtube.
They say that as you approach Hyperthermia you start to feel warm/hot and remove your cloths.
Of course -20C air doesn't make you cold unless you're actually exposed to it.

:-)

On Fri, 31 Oct 2014 07:05:33 -0000, Rod Speed wrote:

Bod wrote

Uncle Peter made this incredible statement:

"This is a fact. -20C air does not make you cold, .
You might shiver if you were naked, but the
shivering will stop you getting any colder".

To me, it sounds like he's talking absolute bull****
and he should be sent to the funny farm, but is
there an element of truth in what he said?....

Nope. Its certainly possible to be quite active when
naked in -20C air and do fine, but just standing there
naked and shivering wont let you survive for long.

Active or not it doesn't matter. Shivering replaces active, it's the same thing, your muscles are moving. You also have reduced blood flow to the surface (all of you, not just your fingers and toes and other sticky out things), and brown fat cells which generate heat directly from calories.

--
Why didn't Noah swat those two mosquitoes?

2 degrees is required to MAKE you shiver. This (along with reduced blood flow to your skin and brown fat cells becoming active) prevents it going much further. You need to lose 17C to die.

My fingers don't mind the cold, they in fact go RED to increase blood to them to prevent frostbite.


On Fri, 31 Oct 2014 07:55:45 -0000, Brian Gaff wrote:

The body does shiver for a while to keep warm, but there are limits, and
that seems to be governed by your core temperature dropping by nearly 2
degrees. Of course prolonged cold make the body keep the blood inside the
bodies main organs, shutting circulation off to extremities. if this goes
on too long tissue dies, ie frostbbite etc.

So its all in the timing and the core temperature. Of course if your
clothing starts to get wet as well and there is a wind, then you have far
less time to do something about it.
Brian



--
If swimming is so good for your figure, how do you explain whales?

On Fri, 31 Oct 2014 11:14:23 -0000, whisky-dave wrote:

On Friday, 31 October 2014 04:56:48 UTC, Bod wrote:
Uncle Peter made this incredible statement:

"This is a fact. -20C air does not make you cold, . You might shiver
if you were naked, but the shivering will stop you getting any colder".

To me, it sounds like he's talking absolute bull**** and he should be
sent to the funny farm, but is there an element of truth in what he
said?....Anyone know?

You could always get him to prove it, as in try it post a vid. to youtube.
They say that as you approach Hyperthermia you start to feel warm/hot and remove your cloths.
Of course -20C air doesn't make you cold unless you're actually exposed to it.

My comment to Bod which has been missed out completely in this thread was that air is nowhere near as cooling as water. The conversation was originally about dry air at -20C, which I said was nothing like even cool water for cooling you down.

--
What's soft and warm when you go to bed, but hard and stiff when you wake up?
Vomit.

On Fri, 31 Oct 2014 11:43:53 -0000, Bod wrote:

On 31/10/2014 11:14, whisky-dave wrote:
On Friday, 31 October 2014 04:56:48 UTC, Bod wrote:
Uncle Peter made this incredible statement:

"This is a fact. -20C air does not make you cold, . You might shiver
if you were naked, but the shivering will stop you getting any colder".

To me, it sounds like he's talking absolute bull**** and he should be
sent to the funny farm, but is there an element of truth in what he
said?....Anyone know?

You could always get him to prove it, as in try it post a vid. to youtube.
They say that as you approach Hyperthermia you start to feel warm/hot and remove your cloths.
Of course -20C air doesn't make you cold unless you're actually exposed to it.

:-)

I've swum in a lake at 0C for 2 hours. Just made me shiver hard when I got out for half an hour.

--
In the beginning, there was nothing, which exploded.

On 31/10/2014 11:46, Uncle Peter wrote:
On Fri, 31 Oct 2014 07:05:33 -0000, Rod Speed
wrote:

Bod wrote

Uncle Peter made this incredible statement:

"This is a fact. -20C air does not make you cold, .
You might shiver if you were naked, but the
shivering will stop you getting any colder".

To me, it sounds like he's talking absolute bull****
and he should be sent to the funny farm, but is
there an element of truth in what he said?....

Nope. Its certainly possible to be quite active when
naked in -20C air and do fine, but just standing there
naked and shivering wont let you survive for long.

Active or not it doesn't matter. Shivering replaces active, it's the
same thing, your muscles are moving. You also have reduced blood flow
to the surface (all of you, not just your fingers and toes and other
sticky out things), and brown fat cells which generate heat directly
from calories.

Yup, which leads to frostbite on your extremities.

On Fri, 31 Oct 2014 11:50:56 -0000, Bod wrote:

On 31/10/2014 11:46, Uncle Peter wrote:
On Fri, 31 Oct 2014 07:05:33 -0000, Rod Speed
wrote:

Bod wrote

Uncle Peter made this incredible statement:

"This is a fact. -20C air does not make you cold, .
You might shiver if you were naked, but the
shivering will stop you getting any colder".

To me, it sounds like he's talking absolute bull****
and he should be sent to the funny farm, but is
there an element of truth in what he said?....

Nope. Its certainly possible to be quite active when
naked in -20C air and do fine, but just standing there
naked and shivering wont let you survive for long.

Active or not it doesn't matter. Shivering replaces active, it's the
same thing, your muscles are moving. You also have reduced blood flow
to the surface (all of you, not just your fingers and toes and other
sticky out things), and brown fat cells which generate heat directly
from calories.

Yup, which leads to frostbite on your extremities.

Your body won't allow that if you have a reasonably fit body. I've gone hillwalking barefoot in the snow. My feet go cold and numb at first, then eventually they go red and warm up again.

--
Men have two emotions: Hungry and Horny. If you see him without a boner, make him a sandwich.

On 31/10/2014 11:48, Uncle Peter wrote:
2 degrees is required to MAKE you shiver. This (along with reduced
blood flow to your skin and brown fat cells becoming active) prevents it
going much further. You need to lose 17C to die.

My fingers don't mind the cold, they in fact go RED to increase blood to
them to prevent frostbite.


How can that be!? Your blood reduces flow to your extremities when very
cold, to protect your vital organs.

On Fri, 31 Oct 2014 11:56:31 -0000, Bod wrote:

On 31/10/2014 11:48, Uncle Peter wrote:
2 degrees is required to MAKE you shiver. This (along with reduced
blood flow to your skin and brown fat cells becoming active) prevents it
going much further. You need to lose 17C to die.

My fingers don't mind the cold, they in fact go RED to increase blood to
them to prevent frostbite.

How can that be!? Your blood reduces flow to your extremities when very
cold, to protect your vital organs.

Your fingers and toes are more important. Your "vital organs" are inside you and much warmer anyway. Try shoving just your hand in a tub of cold water right now. Leave it in there for a while, your hand will go red. That's MORE blood to protect it.

--
Viagra Lite
For people who only want to masturbate

Viagrallium
A mix of Viagra and Vallium: if you don't get to ****, then you don't give a ****.

On 31/10/2014 11:49, Uncle Peter wrote:
On Fri, 31 Oct 2014 11:14:23 -0000, whisky-dave
wrote:

On Friday, 31 October 2014 04:56:48 UTC, Bod wrote:
Uncle Peter made this incredible statement:

"This is a fact. -20C air does not make you cold, . You might shiver
if you were naked, but the shivering will stop you getting any colder".

To me, it sounds like he's talking absolute bull**** and he should be
sent to the funny farm, but is there an element of truth in what he
said?....Anyone know?

You could always get him to prove it, as in try it post a vid. to
youtube.
They say that as you approach Hyperthermia you start to feel warm/hot
and remove your cloths.
Of course -20C air doesn't make you cold unless you're actually
exposed to it.

My comment to Bod which has been missed out completely in this thread
was that air is nowhere near as cooling as water. The conversation was
originally about dry air at -20C, which I said was nothing like even
cool water for cooling you down.

No, you have previously stated that anyone could sleep out in snow all
night when the temperature was minus 20 and only wearing jeans and a tee
shirt.
I can produce the email where you said that, if you wish.

On Fri, 31 Oct 2014 12:08:58 -0000, Bod wrote:

On 31/10/2014 11:49, Uncle Peter wrote:
On Fri, 31 Oct 2014 11:14:23 -0000, whisky-dave
wrote:

On Friday, 31 October 2014 04:56:48 UTC, Bod wrote:
Uncle Peter made this incredible statement:

"This is a fact. -20C air does not make you cold, . You might shiver
if you were naked, but the shivering will stop you getting any colder".

To me, it sounds like he's talking absolute bull**** and he should be
sent to the funny farm, but is there an element of truth in what he
said?....Anyone know?

You could always get him to prove it, as in try it post a vid. to
youtube.
They say that as you approach Hyperthermia you start to feel warm/hot
and remove your cloths.
Of course -20C air doesn't make you cold unless you're actually
exposed to it.

My comment to Bod which has been missed out completely in this thread
was that air is nowhere near as cooling as water. The conversation was
originally about dry air at -20C, which I said was nothing like even
cool water for cooling you down.

No, you have previously stated that anyone could sleep out in snow all
night when the temperature was minus 20 and only wearing jeans and a tee
shirt.
I can produce the email where you said that, if you wish.

Yes, and? How does that contradict what I just said? That situation does not involve being in water.

As for the jeans and tshirt, nobody can get cold when dressed. Jeans and tshirt are quite warm clothes.

--
Peter is listening to "DJ Splash - Ring dinge ding"

On 31/10/2014 12:08, Uncle Peter wrote:
On Fri, 31 Oct 2014 11:56:31 -0000, Bod wrote:

On 31/10/2014 11:48, Uncle Peter wrote:
2 degrees is required to MAKE you shiver. This (along with reduced
blood flow to your skin and brown fat cells becoming active) prevents it
going much further. You need to lose 17C to die.

My fingers don't mind the cold, they in fact go RED to increase blood to
them to prevent frostbite.

How can that be!? Your blood reduces flow to your extremities when very
cold, to protect your vital organs.

Your fingers and toes are more important. Your "vital organs" are
inside you and much warmer anyway. Try shoving just your hand in a tub
of cold water right now. Leave it in there for a while, your hand will
go red. That's MORE blood to protect it.

Tell me! what parts of the body tend to get frostbite first if it's not
fingers and toes?

On Fri, 31 Oct 2014 12:17:25 -0000, Bod wrote:

On 31/10/2014 12:08, Uncle Peter wrote:
On Fri, 31 Oct 2014 11:56:31 -0000, Bod wrote:

On 31/10/2014 11:48, Uncle Peter wrote:
2 degrees is required to MAKE you shiver. This (along with reduced
blood flow to your skin and brown fat cells becoming active) prevents it
going much further. You need to lose 17C to die.

My fingers don't mind the cold, they in fact go RED to increase blood to
them to prevent frostbite.

How can that be!? Your blood reduces flow to your extremities when very
cold, to protect your vital organs.

Your fingers and toes are more important. Your "vital organs" are
inside you and much warmer anyway. Try shoving just your hand in a tub
of cold water right now. Leave it in there for a while, your hand will
go red. That's MORE blood to protect it.

Tell me! what parts of the body tend to get frostbite first if it's not
fingers and toes?

Nothing does if you're fit and healthy. Shutting off your extremities is ****ing stupid. You need those to walk on, therefore they are as important as your "vital organs". You'll find they are more likely to get blood flow if you're using them too.

--
5 Brits were injured last year in accidents involving out of control Scalextric cars.

On Fri, 31 Oct 2014 11:55:23 -0000, Uncle Peter wrote:

"This is a fact. -20C air does not make you cold, .
You might shiver if you were naked, but the
shivering will stop you getting any colder".

To me, it sounds like he's talking absolute bull****
and he should be sent to the funny farm, but is
there an element of truth in what he said?....

Nope. Its certainly possible to be quite active when
naked in -20C air and do fine, but just standing there
naked and shivering wont let you survive for long.

Quite shivering (proper shivering not what most people think of as
shivering) is the bodies attempt at trying to maintain your core
temperature. It might be able to depending on the rate of heat loss
but naked in, even still, -20 C air you won't be able to generate
enough heat and your core temp will drop, you'll stop shivering, you
may even feel quite warm (so much so that people falling into
hypothermia may take their clothes off), then you drift off to
sleep...

Active or not it doesn't matter. Shivering replaces active, it's
the
same thing, your muscles are moving. You also have reduced blood
flow
to the surface (all of you, not just your fingers and toes and
other
sticky out things), and brown fat cells which generate heat
directly
from calories.

Yup, which leads to frostbite on your extremities.

Your body won't allow that if you have a reasonably fit body. I've gone
hillwalking barefoot in the snow. My feet go cold and numb at first,
then eventually they go red and warm up again.

Keep barefoot in that snow for a few hours and see what happens. What
temperature was that snow at? Fresh dry powder snow can be very cold,
think in the terms of -40 C ...

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Fri, 31 Oct 2014 11:49:52 -0000, Uncle Peter wrote:

I've swum in a lake at 0C for 2 hours. Just made me shiver hard when I
got out for half an hour.

And what temperature was the
water?

http://www.seagrant.umn.edu/coastal_...pothermia#time
http://www.ussartf.org/cold_water_survival.htm
http://www.shipwrite.bc.ca/Chilling_truth.htm
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/su...er-d_1567.html


Water temp 0.3 C Exhaustion/unconsious 15 mins, survival 45 mins.

TBH rather too consistent numbers for my liking of web sources but
fit with memory from other sources.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Fri, 31 Oct 2014 13:02:43 -0000, Dave Liquorice wrote:

On Fri, 31 Oct 2014 11:55:23 -0000, Uncle Peter wrote:

"This is a fact. -20C air does not make you cold, .
You might shiver if you were naked, but the
shivering will stop you getting any colder".

To me, it sounds like he's talking absolute bull****
and he should be sent to the funny farm, but is
there an element of truth in what he said?....

Nope. Its certainly possible to be quite active when
naked in -20C air and do fine, but just standing there
naked and shivering wont let you survive for long.

Quite shivering (proper shivering not what most people think of as
shivering) is the bodies attempt at trying to maintain your core
temperature. It might be able to depending on the rate of heat loss
but naked in, even still, -20 C air you won't be able to generate
enough heat and your core temp will drop, you'll stop shivering, you
may even feel quite warm (so much so that people falling into
hypothermia may take their clothes off), then you drift off to
sleep...

You'd have to be an utter wimp with a dose of the flu, or 95 years old to not be able to create enough heat for that, especially as you've reduced blood flow to the surface of your skin (on your entire body), and your brown fat cells are creating heat aswell.

Active or not it doesn't matter. Shivering replaces active, it's
the
same thing, your muscles are moving. You also have reduced blood
flow
to the surface (all of you, not just your fingers and toes and
other
sticky out things), and brown fat cells which generate heat
directly
from calories.

Yup, which leads to frostbite on your extremities.

Your body won't allow that if you have a reasonably fit body. I've gone
hillwalking barefoot in the snow. My feet go cold and numb at first,
then eventually they go red and warm up again.

Keep barefoot in that snow for a few hours and see what happens. What
temperature was that snow at? Fresh dry powder snow can be very cold,
think in the terms of -40 C ...

It was all day, and on a few occasions it was snowing and quite windy. And I wasn't wearing a shirt either. You don't get -40C snow in the UK. In fact wet slushy snow is colder, as the water contacts your whole foot and stays there. Frozen snow conducts less heat away.

--
"The best things in life actually cost a lot of money" - The Beatles

On Friday, 31 October 2014 11:48:23 UTC, Uncle Peter wrote:
2 degrees is required to MAKE you shiver. This (along with reduced blood flow to your skin and brown fat cells becoming active) prevents it going much further. You need to lose 17C to die.

and you will die, shivering just means you might last a little longer.


My fingers don't mind the cold, they in fact go RED to increase blood to them to prevent frostbite.

I would have thought everyone's does but I don;t think that pre3vents frost bite, plenty of atric explorers have experience frost bit and plenty choose top wear gloves.

On Friday, 31 October 2014 11:55:27 UTC, Uncle Peter wrote:
On Fri, 31 Oct 2014 11:50:56 -0000, Bod wrote:

On 31/10/2014 11:46, Uncle Peter wrote:
On Fri, 31 Oct 2014 07:05:33 -0000, Rod Speed
wrote:

Bod wrote

Uncle Peter made this incredible statement:

"This is a fact. -20C air does not make you cold, .
You might shiver if you were naked, but the
shivering will stop you getting any colder".

To me, it sounds like he's talking absolute bull****
and he should be sent to the funny farm, but is
there an element of truth in what he said?....

Nope. Its certainly possible to be quite active when
naked in -20C air and do fine, but just standing there
naked and shivering wont let you survive for long.

Active or not it doesn't matter. Shivering replaces active, it's the
same thing, your muscles are moving. You also have reduced blood flow
to the surface (all of you, not just your fingers and toes and other
sticky out things), and brown fat cells which generate heat directly
from calories.

Yup, which leads to frostbite on your extremities.

Your body won't allow that if you have a reasonably fit body.

your body doesn;t get the choice.

I've gone hillwalking barefoot in the snow. My feet go cold and numb at first, then eventually they go red and warm up again.

and then your brain freezes and you post to usenet ;-)

On Friday, 31 October 2014 12:19:48 UTC, Uncle Peter wrote:
On Fri, 31 Oct 2014 12:17:25 -0000, Bod wrote:

On 31/10/2014 12:08, Uncle Peter wrote:

Tell me! what parts of the body tend to get frostbite first if it's not
fingers and toes?

Nothing does if you're fit and healthy.

sounds like complete crap to me.
I'm sure we've all heard of an explorewr or tow who left theirn tent and didn't return.

Shutting off your extremities is ****ing stupid.
The extremities are colder so ccutting them off is a good idea, because that is where heat is lost. All yo need to do is check out thermal images of livingn creatures to see what happens.



You need those to walk on,

you need a brain to tell your feet to walk.

therefore they are as important as your "vital organs". You'll find they are more likely to get blood flow if you're using them too.

The brain is pretty vital. Well most peoples are. ;-)

On Fri, 31 Oct 2014 13:17:12 -0000, Dave Liquorice wrote:

On Fri, 31 Oct 2014 11:49:52 -0000, Uncle Peter wrote:

I've swum in a lake at 0C for 2 hours. Just made me shiver hard when I
got out for half an hour.

And what temperature was the
water?

I said above, 0C. There was ice floating on the surface. Last time I looked at my thermometer watch in those conditions, it read about 0.3.

http://www.seagrant.umn.edu/coastal_...pothermia#time
http://www.ussartf.org/cold_water_survival.htm
http://www.shipwrite.bc.ca/Chilling_truth.htm
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/su...er-d_1567.html


Water temp 0.3 C Exhaustion/unconsious 15 mins, survival 45 mins.

TBH rather too consistent numbers for my liking of web sources but
fit with memory from other sources.

I've seen times quoted from 4 minutes to 15 minutes for death, and this site says 2 hours: http://wildernessmedicinenewsletter....n-mythbusters/

I've swum in 0C for 2 hours as I said, and I was neither unconscious or dead. In fact afterwards I ate a sandwich then jogged home across the hills.

--
If you want a stable relationship....buy a horse.

whisky-dave wrote:

They say that as you approach Hyperthermia you start to feel warm/hot

Well you would wouldn't you?

HypER-something means too much, over. HyPO means too little, or under.

Hence a hypodermic syringe is for use under the skin (dermis). Hyperactive
is very active, hyperglycaemic is high blood sugar, hypoglycaemia is low
blood sugar. They're opposite extremes.

--
Jeremy C B Nicoll - my opinions are my own.

Email sent to my from-address will be deleted. Instead, please reply
to replacing "aaa" by "284".

On Fri, 31 Oct 2014 13:33:57 -0000, whisky-dave wrote:

On Friday, 31 October 2014 11:48:23 UTC, Uncle Peter wrote:
2 degrees is required to MAKE you shiver. This (along with reduced blood flow to your skin and brown fat cells becoming active) prevents it going much further. You need to lose 17C to die.

and you will die, shivering just means you might last a little longer.

It's very difficult to lose 17C. And you can shiver indefinitely as long as you don't starve (it does burn a lot of calories, and I've found it an easy way to lose weight fast - you can either just be cold, or even better be cold while exercising, then you lose weight twofold).

My fingers don't mind the cold, they in fact go RED to increase blood to them to prevent frostbite.

I would have thought everyone's does but I don;t think that pre3vents frost bite, plenty of atric explorers have experience frost bit and plenty choose top wear gloves.

It depends on how good your circulation is I guess. I have no problems with cold fingers or toes.

--
Is a booby trap only dangerous for women?

On Fri, 31 Oct 2014 13:37:32 -0000, whisky-dave wrote:

On Friday, 31 October 2014 11:55:27 UTC, Uncle Peter wrote:
On Fri, 31 Oct 2014 11:50:56 -0000, Bod wrote:

On 31/10/2014 11:46, Uncle Peter wrote:
On Fri, 31 Oct 2014 07:05:33 -0000, Rod Speed
wrote:

Bod wrote

Uncle Peter made this incredible statement:

"This is a fact. -20C air does not make you cold, .
You might shiver if you were naked, but the
shivering will stop you getting any colder".

To me, it sounds like he's talking absolute bull****
and he should be sent to the funny farm, but is
there an element of truth in what he said?....

Nope. Its certainly possible to be quite active when
naked in -20C air and do fine, but just standing there
naked and shivering wont let you survive for long.

Active or not it doesn't matter. Shivering replaces active, it's the
same thing, your muscles are moving. You also have reduced blood flow
to the surface (all of you, not just your fingers and toes and other
sticky out things), and brown fat cells which generate heat directly
from calories.

Yup, which leads to frostbite on your extremities.

Your body won't allow that if you have a reasonably fit body.

your body doesn;t get the choice.

Your body is actually very resilient and can adjust blood flow to make heat go anywhere it wants.

I've gone hillwalking barefoot in the snow. My feet go cold and numb at first, then eventually they go red and warm up again.

and then your brain freezes and you post to usenet ;-)

I've never had a problem with my brain not working when I'm cold. Or drunk for that matter, maybe some people have weak brains.

--
You are The One. But not The One. The One who is not The One, but is Another One. But you are that One who is The One who is The Other One who is, in fact, The One. All is lost.

On Fri, 31 Oct 2014 13:44:45 -0000, whisky-dave wrote:

On Friday, 31 October 2014 12:19:48 UTC, Uncle Peter wrote:
On Fri, 31 Oct 2014 12:17:25 -0000, Bod wrote:

On 31/10/2014 12:08, Uncle Peter wrote:

Tell me! what parts of the body tend to get frostbite first if it's not
fingers and toes?

Nothing does if you're fit and healthy.

sounds like complete crap to me.
I'm sure we've all heard of an explorewr or tow who left theirn tent and didn't return.

That's how we evolve, the weak die off.

Shutting off your extremities is ****ing stupid.
The extremities are colder so ccutting them off is a good idea, because that is where heat is lost. All yo need to do is check out thermal images of livingn creatures to see what happens.

And how are you going to hunt for food the next day when you've lost your fingers? Complete lack of forward planning.

You need those to walk on,

you need a brain to tell your feet to walk.

Your brain is deep inside your head, and won't get cold very easily. It'll function well below 37C anyway.

therefore they are as important as your "vital organs". You'll find they are more likely to get blood flow if you're using them too.

The brain is pretty vital. Well most peoples are. ;-)

And your fingers are equally vital, as I said above to allow you to survive the next day.

--
What does a Polish woman do after she sucks a cock?
Spits out the feathers.

On Fri, 31 Oct 2014 12:17:25 +0000, Bod wrote:

On 31/10/2014 12:08, Uncle Peter wrote:
On Fri, 31 Oct 2014 11:56:31 -0000, Bod wrote:

On 31/10/2014 11:48, Uncle Peter wrote:
2 degrees is required to MAKE you shiver. This (along with reduced
blood flow to your skin and brown fat cells becoming active) prevents it
going much further. You need to lose 17C to die.

My fingers don't mind the cold, they in fact go RED to increase blood to
them to prevent frostbite.

How can that be!? Your blood reduces flow to your extremities when very
cold, to protect your vital organs.

Your fingers and toes are more important. Your "vital organs" are
inside you and much warmer anyway. Try shoving just your hand in a tub
of cold water right now. Leave it in there for a while, your hand will
go red. That's MORE blood to protect it.

Tell me! what parts of the body tend to get frostbite first if it's not
fingers and toes?

In Uncle Peter's case, I'd imagine it would be his dickhead.
--
J B Good

Uncle Peter wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Bod wrote

Uncle Peter made this incredible statement:

"This is a fact. -20C air does not make you cold, .
You might shiver if you were naked, but the
shivering will stop you getting any colder".

To me, it sounds like he's talking absolute bull****
and he should be sent to the funny farm, but is
there an element of truth in what he said?....

Nope. Its certainly possible to be quite active when
naked in -20C air and do fine, but just standing there
naked and shivering wont let you survive for long.

Active or not it doesn't matter.

Bull****. Try going for a walk when its -20C and see the
difference it makes, or chopping up some firewood etc.

Shivering replaces active, it's the same thing,

Bull****.

your muscles are moving.

Much less when shivering instead of chopping firewood etc.

You also have reduced blood flow to the surface (all of you,
not just your fingers and toes and other sticky out things),
and brown fat cells which generate heat directly from calories.

And if you are actually stupid enough to be stark naked in a gale
at -20C and just stand there, you will be dead quite quickly.

Uncle Peter wrote

2 degrees is required to MAKE you shiver.

Bull****. I start to shiver when its just too cold for long enough
with not enough clothes on with a room temp of 10C.

This (along with reduced blood flow to your skin and brown fat cells
becoming active) prevents it going much further.

Bull****, particularly when there is a decent wind blowing.

You need to lose 17C to die.

Bull****.

My fingers don't mind the cold, they in fact go RED to increase blood to
them to prevent frostbite.

And plenty get chilblains and frostbite.


Brian Gaff wrote

The body does shiver for a while to keep warm, but there are limits, and
that seems to be governed by your core temperature dropping by nearly 2
degrees. Of course prolonged cold make the body keep the blood inside the
bodies main organs, shutting circulation off to extremities. if this
goes
on too long tissue dies, ie frostbbite etc.

So its all in the timing and the core temperature. Of course if your
clothing starts to get wet as well and there is a wind, then you have far
less time to do something about it.

On Fri, 31 Oct 2014 18:31:42 -0000, Rod Speed wrote:

Uncle Peter wrote

2 degrees is required to MAKE you shiver.

Bull****. I start to shiver when its just too cold for long enough
with not enough clothes on with a room temp of 10C.

That sentence is very mixed up. What temperature is the room, how long are you in it, and what are you wearing?

Anyway, by 2 degrees, I meant a 2 degree drop in body temperature, I wasn't referring to ambient temperature.

This (along with reduced blood flow to your skin and brown fat cells
becoming active) prevents it going much further.

Bull****, particularly when there is a decent wind blowing.

You do know what warm blooded means don't you?

You need to lose 17C to die.

Bull****.

It's true. It's a scientific fact that you die at around 20C body temperature. And they have actually found people (including a baby) with a lower temperature than that and still alive.

My fingers don't mind the cold, they in fact go RED to increase blood to
them to prevent frostbite.

And plenty get chilblains and frostbite.

I don't.

--
If people from Poland are called Poles, why aren't people from Holland called Holes?

On Fri, 31 Oct 2014 18:27:45 -0000, Rod Speed wrote:

Uncle Peter wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Bod wrote

Uncle Peter made this incredible statement:

"This is a fact. -20C air does not make you cold, .
You might shiver if you were naked, but the
shivering will stop you getting any colder".

To me, it sounds like he's talking absolute bull****
and he should be sent to the funny farm, but is
there an element of truth in what he said?....

Nope. Its certainly possible to be quite active when
naked in -20C air and do fine, but just standing there
naked and shivering wont let you survive for long.

Active or not it doesn't matter.

Bull****. Try going for a walk when its -20C and see the
difference it makes, or chopping up some firewood etc.

I've been in the cold plenty times, and if not active I just shiver. No big deal.

Shivering replaces active, it's the same thing,

Bull****.

It's what shivering is for, it uses your muscles to generate heat, just as though you were running.

your muscles are moving.

Much less when shivering instead of chopping firewood etc.

Wrong. Your muscles will shiver as much strength as they have, you can't chop firewood with more power than your muscles have.

You also have reduced blood flow to the surface (all of you,
not just your fingers and toes and other sticky out things),
and brown fat cells which generate heat directly from calories.

And if you are actually stupid enough to be stark naked in a gale
at -20C and just stand there, you will be dead quite quickly.

Wrong. I always thought as a kid that all this "wrap up warm" was a load of nonsense, so I tried stuff like snowball fights with no gloves, then going cycling in winter in the snow with no shirt, and swimming in icy lakes. I disproved the bull**** that everyone just believes and passes on like utter ignorant morons.

--
Impeccable, adjective: something which cannot be destroyed by the beak of a parrot. Scientists have yet to discover such a substance.

On Fri, 31 Oct 2014 17:29:25 -0000, Johny B Good wrote:

On Fri, 31 Oct 2014 12:17:25 +0000, Bod wrote:

On 31/10/2014 12:08, Uncle Peter wrote:
On Fri, 31 Oct 2014 11:56:31 -0000, Bod wrote:

On 31/10/2014 11:48, Uncle Peter wrote:
2 degrees is required to MAKE you shiver. This (along with reduced
blood flow to your skin and brown fat cells becoming active) prevents it
going much further. You need to lose 17C to die.

My fingers don't mind the cold, they in fact go RED to increase blood to
them to prevent frostbite.

How can that be!? Your blood reduces flow to your extremities when very
cold, to protect your vital organs.

Your fingers and toes are more important. Your "vital organs" are
inside you and much warmer anyway. Try shoving just your hand in a tub
of cold water right now. Leave it in there for a while, your hand will
go red. That's MORE blood to protect it.

Tell me! what parts of the body tend to get frostbite first if it's not
fingers and toes?

In Uncle Peter's case, I'd imagine it would be his dickhead.

Absolutely impossible, that area has the best blood flow of all your body parts.

--
A child is for life, not just for benefits.

"Uncle Peter" wrote in message
news
On Fri, 31 Oct 2014 11:50:56 -0000, Bod wrote:

On 31/10/2014 11:46, Uncle Peter wrote:
On Fri, 31 Oct 2014 07:05:33 -0000, Rod Speed
wrote:

Bod wrote

Uncle Peter made this incredible statement:

"This is a fact. -20C air does not make you cold, .
You might shiver if you were naked, but the
shivering will stop you getting any colder".

To me, it sounds like he's talking absolute bull****
and he should be sent to the funny farm, but is
there an element of truth in what he said?....

Nope. Its certainly possible to be quite active when
naked in -20C air and do fine, but just standing there
naked and shivering wont let you survive for long.

Active or not it doesn't matter. Shivering replaces active, it's the
same thing, your muscles are moving. You also have reduced blood flow
to the surface (all of you, not just your fingers and toes and other
sticky out things), and brown fat cells which generate heat directly
from calories.

Yup, which leads to frostbite on your extremities.

Your body won't allow that if you have a reasonably fit body.

Bull****. Happens all the time with the extremely fit on Everest etc.

I've gone hillwalking barefoot in the snow.

Try climbing Everest in bare feet and see how long your toes last.

My feet go cold and numb at first, then eventually they go red and warm up
again.

Didn't happen with those that got frostbite on Everest.

"Uncle Peter" wrote in message
news
On Fri, 31 Oct 2014 11:56:31 -0000, Bod wrote:

On 31/10/2014 11:48, Uncle Peter wrote:
2 degrees is required to MAKE you shiver. This (along with reduced
blood flow to your skin and brown fat cells becoming active) prevents it
going much further. You need to lose 17C to die.

My fingers don't mind the cold, they in fact go RED to increase blood to
them to prevent frostbite.

How can that be!? Your blood reduces flow to your extremities when very
cold, to protect your vital organs.

Your fingers and toes are more important.

Bull****. That's what you lose to frostbite, for a reason.

Your "vital organs" are inside you and much warmer anyway.

Try seeing what happens when your core body temp drops significantly.

Try shoving just your hand in a tub of cold water right now. Leave it in
there for a while, your hand will go red.

Now try spending the night in the freezer naked
and see how long your fingers and toes last.

That's MORE blood to protect it.

Doesn't explain why some get frostbite on Everest, stupid.