A woman just told me she had her house rewired because it hadn't been done for 30 years. Have you ever bothered? I mean if it works, why not just leave it? Wire doesn't rot.

--
The light at the end of the tunnel is the headlamp of the oncoming train.

On 21/10/2014 20:13, Uncle Peter wrote:

A woman just told me she had her house rewired because it hadn't been
done for 30 years. Have you ever bothered? I mean if it works, why not
just leave it? Wire doesn't rot.

The copper wire might not but the insulation around it certainly does -
especially if there is some ozone about. Take a look at what happens to
Post Office rubber bands after a year or so and then worry about it!

If you are still on prehistoric round pin plugs and wire fuses then it
is probably time for a rewiring by now.

There is also the risk of rodents sharpening their teeth on your wiring
with accumulating damage until they bridge live and neutral. But that
can happen to modern wiring sometimes if you are very unlucky.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On Tue, 21 Oct 2014 20:26:00 +0100, Martin Brown wrote:

On 21/10/2014 20:13, Uncle Peter wrote:

A woman just told me she had her house rewired because it hadn't been
done for 30 years. Have you ever bothered? I mean if it works, why not
just leave it? Wire doesn't rot.

The copper wire might not but the insulation around it certainly does -
especially if there is some ozone about.

What ozone source are you referring to?

Take a look at what happens to
Post Office rubber bands after a year or so and then worry about it!

That might apply to flex, but my house wiring (twin and earth etc) doesn't seem to go the same way.

If you are still on prehistoric round pin plugs and wire fuses then it
is probably time for a rewiring by now.

Nope, 1979 wiring. Wire fuses and square 13A sockets. I prefer wire fuses as they aren't over-sensitive. The only circuit beakers I got (plug in type in place of the consumer unit fuses) was for the lighting circuits, as a blown halogen bulb could damage a PIR sensor before the fuse blew.

There is also the risk of rodents sharpening their teeth on your wiring
with accumulating damage until they bridge live and neutral. But that
can happen to modern wiring sometimes if you are very unlucky.

I've had rodents in the house a few times, but they've never gone for wires, only things like cushions and poly bags. If they did it should blow a fuse, or the rat.

--
If you believe in telepathy, raise my hand.

"Uncle Peter" wrote in message
news
A woman just told me she had her house rewired because it hadn't been done
for 30 years. Have you ever bothered? I mean if it works, why not just
leave it? Wire doesn't rot.


30 years seems short time for a rewire unless there is also a major refurb
going on.


--
Adam

On Tue, 21 Oct 2014 21:06:07 +0100, ARW wrote:

"Uncle Peter" wrote in message
news
A woman just told me she had her house rewired because it hadn't been done
for 30 years. Have you ever bothered? I mean if it works, why not just
leave it? Wire doesn't rot.


30 years seems short time for a rewire unless there is also a major refurb
going on.

I've always heard 25-30 years stated as the recommended rewiring schedule. She was refurbishing the house BECAUSE it had just been rewired, leaving a mess.

--
Confucius say: "If you park, don't drink, accidents cause people."

On 21/10/2014 20:34, Uncle Peter wrote:
On Tue, 21 Oct 2014 20:26:00 +0100, Martin Brown
wrote:

On 21/10/2014 20:13, Uncle Peter wrote:

A woman just told me she had her house rewired because it hadn't been
done for 30 years. Have you ever bothered? I mean if it works, why not
just leave it? Wire doesn't rot.

The copper wire might not but the insulation around it certainly does -
especially if there is some ozone about.

What ozone source are you referring to?

Take a look at what happens to
Post Office rubber bands after a year or so and then worry about it!

That might apply to flex, but my house wiring (twin and earth etc)
doesn't seem to go the same way.

If you are still on prehistoric round pin plugs and wire fuses then it
is probably time for a rewiring by now.

Nope, 1979 wiring. Wire fuses and square 13A sockets. I prefer wire
fuses as they aren't over-sensitive. The only circuit beakers I got
(plug in type in place of the consumer unit fuses) was for the lighting
circuits, as a blown halogen bulb could damage a PIR sensor before the
fuse blew.

There is also the risk of rodents sharpening their teeth on your wiring
with accumulating damage until they bridge live and neutral. But that
can happen to modern wiring sometimes if you are very unlucky.

I've had rodents in the house a few times, but they've never gone for
wires, only things like cushions and poly bags. If they did it should
blow a fuse, or the rat.

You might find sockets are a bit thin on the ground by modern standards,
and "consumer units" have changed and improved; fuse wire is a bit dated
to my mind. Any "trip units" can deteriorate with age. More powerful
electric showers are now available, needing circuits 30 amp.

"Uncle Peter" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 21 Oct 2014 21:06:07 +0100, ARW
wrote:

"Uncle Peter" wrote in message
news
A woman just told me she had her house rewired because it hadn't been
done
for 30 years. Have you ever bothered? I mean if it works, why not just
leave it? Wire doesn't rot.


30 years seems short time for a rewire unless there is also a major
refurb
going on.

I've always heard 25-30 years stated as the recommended rewiring schedule.
She was refurbishing the house BECAUSE it had just been rewired, leaving a
mess.


Don't listen to small talk.

--
Adam

I've always heard 25-30 years stated as the recommended rewiring
schedule.

Even Electrical Safety First doesn't push such nonsense. They state
explicitly[1] "There are no set guidelines as to when a property should
be rewired. Just because your wiring's old, it doesn't mean it's unsafe.
Many factors can affect the wear and tear of your electrical
installation, including the materials used and how your property has
been used." And that's from a charity who generally lose no opportunity
to get people to spend more money on electricians[2].

[1]
http://www.electricalsafetyfirst.org...ked-questions/
[2] which is not to say that's anything other than a very laudable
purpose in life

--
Robin
reply to address is (meant to be) valid

On Tue, 21 Oct 2014 21:54:04 +0100, newshound wrote:

On 21/10/2014 20:34, Uncle Peter wrote:
On Tue, 21 Oct 2014 20:26:00 +0100, Martin Brown
wrote:

On 21/10/2014 20:13, Uncle Peter wrote:

A woman just told me she had her house rewired because it hadn't been
done for 30 years. Have you ever bothered? I mean if it works, why not
just leave it? Wire doesn't rot.

The copper wire might not but the insulation around it certainly does -
especially if there is some ozone about.

What ozone source are you referring to?

Take a look at what happens to
Post Office rubber bands after a year or so and then worry about it!

That might apply to flex, but my house wiring (twin and earth etc)
doesn't seem to go the same way.

If you are still on prehistoric round pin plugs and wire fuses then it
is probably time for a rewiring by now.

Nope, 1979 wiring. Wire fuses and square 13A sockets. I prefer wire
fuses as they aren't over-sensitive. The only circuit beakers I got
(plug in type in place of the consumer unit fuses) was for the lighting
circuits, as a blown halogen bulb could damage a PIR sensor before the
fuse blew.

There is also the risk of rodents sharpening their teeth on your wiring
with accumulating damage until they bridge live and neutral. But that
can happen to modern wiring sometimes if you are very unlucky.

I've had rodents in the house a few times, but they've never gone for
wires, only things like cushions and poly bags. If they did it should
blow a fuse, or the rat.

You might find sockets are a bit thin on the ground by modern standards,

Adapters and 4 way strips suit me just fine. Or a couple of extra sockets can be added without changing the whole house.

and "consumer units" have changed and improved; fuse wire is a bit dated
to my mind.

It performs precisely the same function.

Any "trip units" can deteriorate with age. More powerful
electric showers are now available, needing circuits 30 amp.

Why would I want that? The original electric showers work just fine. There is no need for more power. If I did want one, that's one wire to the CU, not the whole house needing redone.

--
History teaches us that no other cause has brought more death than the word of god. -- Giulian Buzila

On Tue, 21 Oct 2014 22:03:40 +0100, ARW wrote:

"Uncle Peter" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 21 Oct 2014 21:06:07 +0100, ARW
wrote:

"Uncle Peter" wrote in message
news A woman just told me she had her house rewired because it hadn't been
done
for 30 years. Have you ever bothered? I mean if it works, why not just
leave it? Wire doesn't rot.


30 years seems short time for a rewire unless there is also a major
refurb
going on.

I've always heard 25-30 years stated as the recommended rewiring schedule.
She was refurbishing the house BECAUSE it had just been rewired, leaving a
mess.


Don't listen to small talk.

It appears she did. And when I said I had fuses she was horrified.

--
How do you scare a man?
Sneak up behind him and start throwing rice.

Martin Brown wrote
Uncle Peter wrote

A woman just told me she had her house rewired because
it hadn't been done for 30 years. Have you ever bothered?
I mean if it works, why not just leave it? Wire doesn't rot.

The copper wire might not but the insulation around it certainly does -
especially if there is some ozone about. Take a look at what happens
to Post Office rubber bands after a year or so and then worry about it!

Rubber bands are nothing like the insulation used on electrical wiring.

I have some old rubber extension cords that my dad had, must
be well over 60 years old now, they're still fine insulation wise.

The plastic extension cords I used when building the house
40 years ago now are still fine and the insulated wiring in the
house that I did myself is even better, essentially because it
was always better than the extension cords and doesn't even
get walked on because it's a flat roof with only a max of 15"
of space in the roof space. And that stuff does get pretty hot
in summer because its above the ceiling insulation and below
the metal deck roof and we routinely have 10 days in a row
over 100F, the roof space does get pretty hot in summer.

If you are still on prehistoric round pin plugs and wire
fuses then it is probably time for a rewiring by now.

Makes more sense to just change the sockets and CU.

Mine was done with wire fuses, just because there was
a shortage of breakers at the time and the electrical
supply authority had noticed that I was powering the
entire house from the builder's temporary supply using
an extension cord and so there was some urgency to
to the meter box and make it legal. I just use those
breakers that plug in in place of the fuse wire block.

Can't be arsed to redo the whole thing because that
would involve moving the meters and would involve
getting an electrician to say he did that and the two
I know who would be happy to do that, one has died
of cancer and the other has moved away and couldn't
be bothered with the stupid training requirement to
keep his license.

There is also the risk of rodents sharpening their teeth on your wiring
with accumulating damage until they bridge live and neutral. But that
can happen to modern wiring sometimes if you are very unlucky.

Yeah, that one isnt relevant to how often you need to rewire.

I don't have any of that damage to mine anyway, even
tho we have had a few mouse plagues over that time.

On 21/10/2014 23:30, Uncle Peter wrote:

It appears she did. And when I said I had fuses she was horrified.

I've just had some fuses replaced with trip switches on a house I'm
letting out. It makes life an awful lot simpler.

On 21/10/2014 23:49, GB wrote:
On 21/10/2014 23:30, Uncle Peter wrote:

It appears she did. And when I said I had fuses she was horrified.

I've just had some fuses replaced with trip switches on a house I'm
letting out. It makes life an awful lot simpler.


I should have said that the trip switches are just a plug in
replacement, so it's very easy to do.

In article ,
Uncle Peter wrote:
A woman just told me she had her house rewired because it hadn't been
done for 30 years. Have you ever bothered? I mean if it works, why not
just leave it? Wire doesn't rot.

It would depend on how comprehensive the original installation was. If it
were very basic, it might just be easier to start again if you want a
fairly sophisticated setup. But if it was well designed and installed
using quality materials, I'd certainly not expect it to *need* replacing.
The installation here is basically more than 30 years old done by myself.
But has been extended over the years, and a new CU fitted.

--
*60-year-old, one owner - needs parts, make offer

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Tue, 21 Oct 2014 23:46:42 +0100, Rod Speed wrote:

Martin Brown wrote
Uncle Peter wrote

A woman just told me she had her house rewired because
it hadn't been done for 30 years. Have you ever bothered?
I mean if it works, why not just leave it? Wire doesn't rot.

The copper wire might not but the insulation around it certainly does -
especially if there is some ozone about. Take a look at what happens
to Post Office rubber bands after a year or so and then worry about it!

Rubber bands are nothing like the insulation used on electrical wiring.

I have some old rubber extension cords that my dad had, must
be well over 60 years old now, they're still fine insulation wise.

The plastic extension cords I used when building the house
40 years ago now are still fine and the insulated wiring in the
house that I did myself is even better, essentially because it
was always better than the extension cords and doesn't even
get walked on because it's a flat roof with only a max of 15"
of space in the roof space. And that stuff does get pretty hot
in summer because its above the ceiling insulation and below
the metal deck roof and we routinely have 10 days in a row
over 100F, the roof space does get pretty hot in summer.

If you are still on prehistoric round pin plugs and wire
fuses then it is probably time for a rewiring by now.

Makes more sense to just change the sockets and CU.

Mine was done with wire fuses, just because there was
a shortage of breakers at the time and the electrical
supply authority had noticed that I was powering the
entire house from the builder's temporary supply using
an extension cord and so there was some urgency to
to the meter box and make it legal. I just use those
breakers that plug in in place of the fuse wire block.

Can't be arsed to redo the whole thing because that
would involve moving the meters and would involve
getting an electrician to say he did that and the two
I know who would be happy to do that, one has died
of cancer and the other has moved away and couldn't
be bothered with the stupid training requirement to
keep his license.

Why can't you move the meters yourself? If it's anything like mine, there's a 100A fuse before the meter, which you can pull out while you move the meter.

There is also the risk of rodents sharpening their teeth on your wiring
with accumulating damage until they bridge live and neutral. But that
can happen to modern wiring sometimes if you are very unlucky.

Yeah, that one isnt relevant to how often you need to rewire.

I don't have any of that damage to mine anyway, even
tho we have had a few mouse plagues over that time.

--
Women are like dog ****, the older they get the easier they are to pick up.

On Tue, 21 Oct 2014 23:49:01 +0100, GB wrote:

On 21/10/2014 23:30, Uncle Peter wrote:

It appears she did. And when I said I had fuses she was horrified.

I've just had some fuses replaced with trip switches on a house I'm
letting out. It makes life an awful lot simpler.

Why is it simpler? Fuses hardly ever blow, unlike some breakers....

--
Are part-time bandleaders semi-conductors?
Only if they've had a sex-change. Then they're trans-sisters.

Uncle Peter wrote

A woman just told me she had her house rewired because it hadn't been done
for 30 years.

Mad.

Have you ever bothered?

Nope, and I did mine when I built the house in the very early 70s.

I mean if it works, why not just leave it? Wire doesn't rot.

The insulation can deteriorate, but not that quickly with stuff done 30
years ago.

The insulation of mine is fine and some of it gets stinking hot in summer
because its on top of the insulated ceiling, with a flat metal decking roof
only a foot above that and we can get 10 days in a row over 100F in summer.

On Wed, 22 Oct 2014 00:24:03 +0100, Rod Speed wrote:

Uncle Peter wrote

A woman just told me she had her house rewired because it hadn't been done
for 30 years.

Mad.

Have you ever bothered?

Nope, and I did mine when I built the house in the very early 70s.

I mean if it works, why not just leave it? Wire doesn't rot.

The insulation can deteriorate, but not that quickly with stuff done 30
years ago.

The insulation of mine is fine and some of it gets stinking hot in summer
because its on top of the insulated ceiling, with a flat metal decking roof
only a foot above that and we can get 10 days in a row over 100F in summer.

I'm in Scotland and I fitted an extractor on a thermostat for the attic, as I was getting stuff like paint etc drying out up there. Plus I used to have computers running up there which kinda didn't like hot summer days.

--
Red meat isn't bad for you. Fuzzy blue-green meat is bad for you.

On 21/10/2014 23:57, Uncle Peter wrote:
On Tue, 21 Oct 2014 23:49:01 +0100, GB wrote:

On 21/10/2014 23:30, Uncle Peter wrote:

It appears she did. And when I said I had fuses she was horrified.

I've just had some fuses replaced with trip switches on a house I'm
letting out. It makes life an awful lot simpler.

Why is it simpler? Fuses hardly ever blow, unlike some breakers....


See if you can work it out.

On Wed, 22 Oct 2014 00:33:04 +0100, GB wrote:

On 21/10/2014 23:57, Uncle Peter wrote:
On Tue, 21 Oct 2014 23:49:01 +0100, GB wrote:

On 21/10/2014 23:30, Uncle Peter wrote:

It appears she did. And when I said I had fuses she was horrified.

I've just had some fuses replaced with trip switches on a house I'm
letting out. It makes life an awful lot simpler.

Why is it simpler? Fuses hardly ever blow, unlike some breakers....


See if you can work it out.

It isn't simpler, that's the answer.

--
Paddy and his wife are lying in bed and the neighbours' dog is barking like mad in the garden.
Paddy says "To hell with this!" and storms off.
He comes back upstairs 5 minutes later and his wife asks "What did you do?"
Paddy replies "I've put the dog in our garden. Let's see how they like it!"

In article ,
Martin Brown wrote:
A woman just told me she had her house rewired because it hadn't been
done for 30 years. Have you ever bothered? I mean if it works, why
not just leave it? Wire doesn't rot.

The copper wire might not but the insulation around it certainly does -
especially if there is some ozone about. Take a look at what happens to
Post Office rubber bands after a year or so and then worry about it!

30 years ago was 1984. PVC insulation was around 20 odd years before that
- and well before the change to metric cable around '70. Also I'd not be
sure rubber bands use the same rubber as used for cable insulation. Car
tyres don't self destruct in a year either.

If you are still on prehistoric round pin plugs and wire fuses then it
is probably time for a rewiring by now.

Eh? The 13 amp final ring system dates from just after WW2 - and most new
installations used it shortly afterwards. Obviously round pin sockets were
still around till much later - but I doubt were used in any new
installation 30 years ago. Wire fuses are different.

There is also the risk of rodents sharpening their teeth on your wiring
with accumulating damage until they bridge live and neutral. But that
can happen to modern wiring sometimes if you are very unlucky.

It could well be *more* likely with PVC than rubber.

--
*I didn't drive my husband crazy -- I flew him there -- it was faster

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In message , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
In article ,
Uncle Peter wrote:
A woman just told me she had her house rewired because it hadn't been
done for 30 years. Have you ever bothered? I mean if it works, why not
just leave it? Wire doesn't rot.

It would depend on how comprehensive the original installation was. If it
were very basic, it might just be easier to start again if you want a
fairly sophisticated setup. But if it was well designed and installed
using quality materials, I'd certainly not expect it to *need* replacing.
The installation here is basically more than 30 years old done by myself.
But has been extended over the years, and a new CU fitted.


Yeah, going by the history of this house, and the fittings used (it was
sold in the late 60's and was largely unchanged since the 20-30's by the
sounds of it) most of our installation probably dates from circa 1970 or
so. Obviously with additions/modification over the years

The cable all seems sound, CPC on the lighting circuits, we even seem to
have a reasonable number of sockets (but no fixed lighting in the
sitting room for some reason). There have a been a couple of faults,
down to some dodgy wiring in the back of sockets, and I put in a new CU
a few years ago. I find that I am gradually replacing the switches and
sockets as they are either knackered or just look pretty scruffy once a
room is redecorated.

But basically it's fine


--
Chris French

In article ,
Uncle Peter wrote:
On Tue, 21 Oct 2014 23:49:01 +0100, GB wrote:

On 21/10/2014 23:30, Uncle Peter wrote:

It appears she did. And when I said I had fuses she was horrified.

I've just had some fuses replaced with trip switches on a house I'm
letting out. It makes life an awful lot simpler.

Why is it simpler? Fuses hardly ever blow, unlike some breakers....

Never known a breaker blow. It might trip if overloaded, which is its
purpose. As a fuse will blow. Know which one is more simple to sort, once
the cause of the overload is removed.

--
*Do infants enjoy infancy as much as adults enjoy adultery?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

En el artículo , Dave Plowman (News)
escribió:

Never known a breaker blow

http://www.jasper.org.uk/pics/IMG_6149.JPG

About 4 weeks ago.

--
(\_/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

Uncle Peter wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Martin Brown wrote
Uncle Peter wrote

A woman just told me she had her house rewired because
it hadn't been done for 30 years. Have you ever bothered?
I mean if it works, why not just leave it? Wire doesn't rot.

The copper wire might not but the insulation around it certainly does -
especially if there is some ozone about. Take a look at what happens
to Post Office rubber bands after a year or so and then worry about it!

Rubber bands are nothing like the insulation used on electrical wiring.

I have some old rubber extension cords that my dad had, must
be well over 60 years old now, they're still fine insulation wise.

The plastic extension cords I used when building the house
40 years ago now are still fine and the insulated wiring in the
house that I did myself is even better, essentially because it
was always better than the extension cords and doesn't even
get walked on because it's a flat roof with only a max of 15"
of space in the roof space. And that stuff does get pretty hot
in summer because its above the ceiling insulation and below
the metal deck roof and we routinely have 10 days in a row
over 100F, the roof space does get pretty hot in summer.

If you are still on prehistoric round pin plugs and wire
fuses then it is probably time for a rewiring by now.

Makes more sense to just change the sockets and CU.

Mine was done with wire fuses, just because there was
a shortage of breakers at the time and the electrical
supply authority had noticed that I was powering the
entire house from the builder's temporary supply using
an extension cord and so there was some urgency to
to the meter box and make it legal. I just use those
breakers that plug in in place of the fuse wire block.

Can't be arsed to redo the whole thing because that
would involve moving the meters and would involve
getting an electrician to say he did that and the two
I know who would be happy to do that, one has died
of cancer and the other has moved away and couldn't
be bothered with the stupid training requirement to
keep his license.

Why can't you move the meters yourself?

Our system doesn't allow that. It has to be done by a licensed electrician.

If it's anything like mine, there's a 100A fuse before the meter, which
you can pull out while you move the meter.

I was talking about the legalitys, not how you do it physically.

We do have fuses on the point of connection, where
the cable from the street pole is attached to the house.
Very easy to just pull those, they are cartridge fuses in
quite large ceramic blocks that pull out downwards.

There is also the risk of rodents sharpening their teeth on your wiring
with accumulating damage until they bridge live and neutral. But that
can happen to modern wiring sometimes if you are very unlucky.

Yeah, that one isnt relevant to how often you need to rewire.

I don't have any of that damage to mine anyway, even
tho we have had a few mouse plagues over that time.

Uncle Peter wrote
GB wrote
On 21/10/2014 23:30, Uncle Peter wrote

It appears she did. And when I said I had fuses she was horrified.

I've just had some fuses replaced with trip switches on a
house I'm letting out. It makes life an awful lot simpler.

Why is it simpler?

You just push the lever instead of finding
some fuse wire and rewiring the fuse.

Fuses hardly ever blow,

True.

unlike some breakers....

None of my plug in breakers that go where
the fuse wire holder goes has ever blown.

Uncle Peter wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Uncle Peter wrote

A woman just told me she had her house rewired because it hadn't been
done for 30 years.

Mad.

Have you ever bothered?

Nope, and I did mine when I built the house in the very early 70s.

I mean if it works, why not just leave it? Wire doesn't rot.

The insulation can deteriorate, but not that quickly with stuff done 30
years ago.

The insulation of mine is fine and some of it gets stinking hot in summer
because its on top of the insulated ceiling, with a flat metal decking
roof
only a foot above that and we can get 10 days in a row over 100F in
summer.

I'm in Scotland and I fitted an extractor on a thermostat for the attic,

I don't have any attic or even roofspace you can get into.
The roofspace is at most 15" deep at the deepest in the
center and goes down to about 12" at the edge of the roof.

I don't care about what temperature it gets to
because its above the well insulated ceiling.

And you'd need a hell of a lot more than an extractor
fan to do much about the temperature when its 110F
outside on a stinking hot summer day with the sun
beating down on the decking roof.

as I was getting stuff like paint etc drying out up there.

I don't have anything up there except the electrical wiring.

All the plumbing is under the concrete slab
and never goes anywhere near the roofspace.

Plus I used to have computers running up there which kinda didn't like hot
summer days.

Mine don't care even when the house gets up to 40C
if its got no one in it and I haven't got the cooler on.

Red meat isn't bad for you. Fuzzy blue-green meat is bad for you.

We survived over a summer where we got a meat
delivery twice a week with the mailman and no fridge
at all. It could get pretty fuzzy blue green at times.

In article ,
Uncle Peter wrote:
On Tue, 21 Oct 2014 23:46:42 +0100, Rod Speed wrote:

Martin Brown wrote
Uncle Peter wrote

A woman just told me she had her house rewired because
it hadn't been done for 30 years. Have you ever bothered?
I mean if it works, why not just leave it? Wire doesn't rot.

The copper wire might not but the insulation around it certainly does -
especially if there is some ozone about. Take a look at what happens
to Post Office rubber bands after a year or so and then worry about it!

Rubber bands are nothing like the insulation used on electrical wiring.

I have some old rubber extension cords that my dad had, must
be well over 60 years old now, they're still fine insulation wise.

The plastic extension cords I used when building the house
40 years ago now are still fine and the insulated wiring in the
house that I did myself is even better, essentially because it
was always better than the extension cords and doesn't even
get walked on because it's a flat roof with only a max of 15"
of space in the roof space. And that stuff does get pretty hot
in summer because its above the ceiling insulation and below
the metal deck roof and we routinely have 10 days in a row
over 100F, the roof space does get pretty hot in summer.

If you are still on prehistoric round pin plugs and wire
fuses then it is probably time for a rewiring by now.

Makes more sense to just change the sockets and CU.

Mine was done with wire fuses, just because there was
a shortage of breakers at the time and the electrical
supply authority had noticed that I was powering the
entire house from the builder's temporary supply using
an extension cord and so there was some urgency to
to the meter box and make it legal. I just use those
breakers that plug in in place of the fuse wire block.

Can't be arsed to redo the whole thing because that
would involve moving the meters and would involve
getting an electrician to say he did that and the two
I know who would be happy to do that, one has died
of cancer and the other has moved away and couldn't
be bothered with the stupid training requirement to
keep his license.

Why can't you move the meters yourself? If it's anything like mine,
there's a 100A fuse before the meter, which you can pull out while you
move the meter.

They should be sealed in place with a security tag which you break at your
peril.

--
From KT24

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.18

"Uncle Peter" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 21 Oct 2014 21:54:04 +0100, newshound
wrote:

On 21/10/2014 20:34, Uncle Peter wrote:
On Tue, 21 Oct 2014 20:26:00 +0100, Martin Brown
wrote:

On 21/10/2014 20:13, Uncle Peter wrote:

A woman just told me she had her house rewired because it hadn't been
done for 30 years. Have you ever bothered? I mean if it works, why
not
just leave it? Wire doesn't rot.

The copper wire might not but the insulation around it certainly does -
especially if there is some ozone about.

What ozone source are you referring to?

Take a look at what happens to
Post Office rubber bands after a year or so and then worry about it!

That might apply to flex, but my house wiring (twin and earth etc)
doesn't seem to go the same way.

If you are still on prehistoric round pin plugs and wire fuses then it
is probably time for a rewiring by now.

Nope, 1979 wiring. Wire fuses and square 13A sockets. I prefer wire
fuses as they aren't over-sensitive. The only circuit beakers I got
(plug in type in place of the consumer unit fuses) was for the lighting
circuits, as a blown halogen bulb could damage a PIR sensor before the
fuse blew.

There is also the risk of rodents sharpening their teeth on your wiring
with accumulating damage until they bridge live and neutral. But that
can happen to modern wiring sometimes if you are very unlucky.

I've had rodents in the house a few times, but they've never gone for
wires, only things like cushions and poly bags. If they did it should
blow a fuse, or the rat.

You might find sockets are a bit thin on the ground by modern standards,

Adapters and 4 way strips suit me just fine. Or a couple of extra sockets
can be added without changing the whole house.

and "consumer units" have changed and improved; fuse wire is a bit dated
to my mind.

It performs precisely the same function.

Any "trip units" can deteriorate with age. More powerful
electric showers are now available, needing circuits 30 amp.

Why would I want that? The original electric showers work just fine.
There is no need for more power. If I did want one, that's one wire to
the CU, not the whole house needing redone.


Miniature Circuit Breakers provide a much closer degree of protection
compared with fuse wire.
Fuse wire will carry four times the rated load for around half an hour
before melting.
Long enough to start a fire.

Since MCBs appeared, electrical fault-fires have reduced by 90% so they are
hugely more safe.
They are designed to be failsafe.

PVC/polythene wire does not deteriorate as long as not subjected to strong
sunlight.
Switches and other hardware does but is easily changed.

The remaining source of fires is mainly mechanical damage of various forms.
Rodent chewing wires, people drillling holes in walls etc.
And flexes running along/under flammable things like carpets and curtains.

CFL are less likely to start a fire as they run cooler.

On Wed, 22 Oct 2014 08:20:33 +0100, charles wrote:

In article ,
Uncle Peter wrote:
On Tue, 21 Oct 2014 23:46:42 +0100, Rod Speed wrote:

Martin Brown wrote
Uncle Peter wrote

A woman just told me she had her house rewired because
it hadn't been done for 30 years. Have you ever bothered?
I mean if it works, why not just leave it? Wire doesn't rot.

The copper wire might not but the insulation around it certainly does -
especially if there is some ozone about. Take a look at what happens
to Post Office rubber bands after a year or so and then worry about it!

Rubber bands are nothing like the insulation used on electrical wiring.

I have some old rubber extension cords that my dad had, must
be well over 60 years old now, they're still fine insulation wise.

The plastic extension cords I used when building the house
40 years ago now are still fine and the insulated wiring in the
house that I did myself is even better, essentially because it
was always better than the extension cords and doesn't even
get walked on because it's a flat roof with only a max of 15"
of space in the roof space. And that stuff does get pretty hot
in summer because its above the ceiling insulation and below
the metal deck roof and we routinely have 10 days in a row
over 100F, the roof space does get pretty hot in summer.

If you are still on prehistoric round pin plugs and wire
fuses then it is probably time for a rewiring by now.

Makes more sense to just change the sockets and CU.

Mine was done with wire fuses, just because there was
a shortage of breakers at the time and the electrical
supply authority had noticed that I was powering the
entire house from the builder's temporary supply using
an extension cord and so there was some urgency to
to the meter box and make it legal. I just use those
breakers that plug in in place of the fuse wire block.

Can't be arsed to redo the whole thing because that
would involve moving the meters and would involve
getting an electrician to say he did that and the two
I know who would be happy to do that, one has died
of cancer and the other has moved away and couldn't
be bothered with the stupid training requirement to
keep his license.

Why can't you move the meters yourself? If it's anything like mine,
there's a 100A fuse before the meter, which you can pull out while you
move the meter.

They should be sealed in place with a security tag which you break at your
peril.

Easy enough to buy a new tag and clamp tool. Or just leave it untagged like an electrician I know does. The electricity board don't say anything. After all it's the only way to shut off the electricity into your house. My gas pipe has a shut off lever before the meter for an emergency, so the electric should have the same.

--
"Computers in the future may weigh no more than 1.5 tons." -- Popular Mechanics, 1949

On Wed, 22 Oct 2014 08:24:18 +0100, harryagain wrote:


"Uncle Peter" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 21 Oct 2014 21:54:04 +0100, newshound
wrote:

On 21/10/2014 20:34, Uncle Peter wrote:
On Tue, 21 Oct 2014 20:26:00 +0100, Martin Brown
wrote:

On 21/10/2014 20:13, Uncle Peter wrote:

A woman just told me she had her house rewired because it hadn't been
done for 30 years. Have you ever bothered? I mean if it works, why
not
just leave it? Wire doesn't rot.

The copper wire might not but the insulation around it certainly does -
especially if there is some ozone about.

What ozone source are you referring to?

Take a look at what happens to
Post Office rubber bands after a year or so and then worry about it!

That might apply to flex, but my house wiring (twin and earth etc)
doesn't seem to go the same way.

If you are still on prehistoric round pin plugs and wire fuses then it
is probably time for a rewiring by now.

Nope, 1979 wiring. Wire fuses and square 13A sockets. I prefer wire
fuses as they aren't over-sensitive. The only circuit beakers I got
(plug in type in place of the consumer unit fuses) was for the lighting
circuits, as a blown halogen bulb could damage a PIR sensor before the
fuse blew.

There is also the risk of rodents sharpening their teeth on your wiring
with accumulating damage until they bridge live and neutral. But that
can happen to modern wiring sometimes if you are very unlucky.

I've had rodents in the house a few times, but they've never gone for
wires, only things like cushions and poly bags. If they did it should
blow a fuse, or the rat.

You might find sockets are a bit thin on the ground by modern standards,

Adapters and 4 way strips suit me just fine. Or a couple of extra sockets
can be added without changing the whole house.

and "consumer units" have changed and improved; fuse wire is a bit dated
to my mind.

It performs precisely the same function.

Any "trip units" can deteriorate with age. More powerful
electric showers are now available, needing circuits 30 amp.

Why would I want that? The original electric showers work just fine.
There is no need for more power. If I did want one, that's one wire to
the CU, not the whole house needing redone.


Miniature Circuit Breakers provide a much closer degree of protection
compared with fuse wire.
Fuse wire will carry four times the rated load for around half an hour
before melting.
Long enough to start a fire.

The trouble with breakers is you get a lot of nuisance trips. A lot of things might use 4 times the rated load for a bit.

Since MCBs appeared, electrical fault-fires have reduced by 90% so they are
hugely more safe.
They are designed to be failsafe.

PVC/polythene wire does not deteriorate as long as not subjected to strong
sunlight.
Switches and other hardware does but is easily changed.

The remaining source of fires is mainly mechanical damage of various forms.
Rodent chewing wires, people drillling holes in walls etc.

Wouldn't you notice if you drilled through a wire?

And flexes running along/under flammable things like carpets and curtains.

CFL are less likely to start a fire as they run cooler.

Hmmmmm..... I always thought the quick tripping was for electric shock safety only. And that fires were normally from shorts which tend to break a fuse just as well as a breaker. And that the fires that didn't trip/blow the breaker/fuse were not carrying more than the circuit's rated current.

--
I was telling a girl in the pub about my ability to guess what day a woman was born just by feeling her boobs.
"Really" she said, "Go on then.... try."
After about 30 seconds of fondling she began to lose patience and said, "Come on, what day was I born?"
I said, "Yesterday."

In article , Uncle Peter wrote:
On Wed, 22 Oct 2014 08:20:33 +0100, charles
wrote:

In article , Uncle Peter wrote:
On Tue, 21 Oct 2014 23:46:42 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:

Martin Brown wrote
Uncle Peter wrote

A woman just told me she had her house rewired because it hadn't
been done for 30 years. Have you ever bothered? I mean if it
works, why not just leave it? Wire doesn't rot.

The copper wire might not but the insulation around it certainly
does - especially if there is some ozone about. Take a look at what
happens to Post Office rubber bands after a year or so and then
worry about it!

Rubber bands are nothing like the insulation used on electrical
wiring.

I have some old rubber extension cords that my dad had, must be well
over 60 years old now, they're still fine insulation wise.

The plastic extension cords I used when building the house 40 years
ago now are still fine and the insulated wiring in the house that I
did myself is even better, essentially because it was always better
than the extension cords and doesn't even get walked on because it's
a flat roof with only a max of 15" of space in the roof space. And
that stuff does get pretty hot in summer because its above the
ceiling insulation and below the metal deck roof and we routinely
have 10 days in a row over 100F, the roof space does get pretty hot
in summer.

If you are still on prehistoric round pin plugs and wire fuses then
it is probably time for a rewiring by now.

Makes more sense to just change the sockets and CU.

Mine was done with wire fuses, just because there was a shortage of
breakers at the time and the electrical supply authority had noticed
that I was powering the entire house from the builder's temporary
supply using an extension cord and so there was some urgency to to
the meter box and make it legal. I just use those breakers that plug
in in place of the fuse wire block.

Can't be arsed to redo the whole thing because that would involve
moving the meters and would involve getting an electrician to say he
did that and the two I know who would be happy to do that, one has
died of cancer and the other has moved away and couldn't be bothered
with the stupid training requirement to keep his license.

Why can't you move the meters yourself? If it's anything like mine,
there's a 100A fuse before the meter, which you can pull out while you
move the meter.

They should be sealed in place with a security tag which you break at
your peril.

Easy enough to buy a new tag and clamp tool. Or just leave it untagged
like an electrician I know does. The electricity board don't say
anything. After all it's the only way to shut off the electricity into
your house. My gas pipe has a shut off lever before the meter for an
emergency, so the electric should have the same.

why - can you have an electricity leak before the meter?

--
From KT24

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.18

"Uncle Peter" wrote in message
news
On Wed, 22 Oct 2014 08:24:18 +0100, harryagain
wrote:


"Uncle Peter" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 21 Oct 2014 21:54:04 +0100, newshound
wrote:

On 21/10/2014 20:34, Uncle Peter wrote:
On Tue, 21 Oct 2014 20:26:00 +0100, Martin Brown
wrote:

On 21/10/2014 20:13, Uncle Peter wrote:

A woman just told me she had her house rewired because it hadn't
been
done for 30 years. Have you ever bothered? I mean if it works, why
not
just leave it? Wire doesn't rot.

The copper wire might not but the insulation around it certainly
does -
especially if there is some ozone about.

What ozone source are you referring to?

Take a look at what happens to
Post Office rubber bands after a year or so and then worry about it!

That might apply to flex, but my house wiring (twin and earth etc)
doesn't seem to go the same way.

If you are still on prehistoric round pin plugs and wire fuses then
it
is probably time for a rewiring by now.

Nope, 1979 wiring. Wire fuses and square 13A sockets. I prefer wire
fuses as they aren't over-sensitive. The only circuit beakers I got
(plug in type in place of the consumer unit fuses) was for the
lighting
circuits, as a blown halogen bulb could damage a PIR sensor before the
fuse blew.

There is also the risk of rodents sharpening their teeth on your
wiring
with accumulating damage until they bridge live and neutral. But that
can happen to modern wiring sometimes if you are very unlucky.

I've had rodents in the house a few times, but they've never gone for
wires, only things like cushions and poly bags. If they did it should
blow a fuse, or the rat.

You might find sockets are a bit thin on the ground by modern
standards,

Adapters and 4 way strips suit me just fine. Or a couple of extra
sockets
can be added without changing the whole house.

and "consumer units" have changed and improved; fuse wire is a bit
dated
to my mind.

It performs precisely the same function.

Any "trip units" can deteriorate with age. More powerful
electric showers are now available, needing circuits 30 amp.

Why would I want that? The original electric showers work just fine.
There is no need for more power. If I did want one, that's one wire to
the CU, not the whole house needing redone.


Miniature Circuit Breakers provide a much closer degree of protection
compared with fuse wire.
Fuse wire will carry four times the rated load for around half an hour
before melting.
Long enough to start a fire.

The trouble with breakers is you get a lot of nuisance trips.

I've never ever had even one.

A lot of things might use 4 times the rated load for a bit.

**** all do in fact.

Since MCBs appeared, electrical fault-fires have reduced by 90% so they
are hugely more safe. They are designed to be failsafe.

PVC/polythene wire does not deteriorate as long as not subjected to
strong
sunlight. Switches and other hardware does but is easily changed.

The remaining source of fires is mainly mechanical damage of various
forms.
Rodent chewing wires, people drillling holes in walls etc.

Wouldn't you notice if you drilled through a wire?

Not necessarily.

And flexes running along/under flammable things like carpets and
curtains.

CFL are less likely to start a fire as they run cooler.

Hmmmmm..... I always thought the quick tripping was for electric shock
safety only.

Nope, it clearly is for electrical fires too.

And that fires were normally from shorts which tend to break a fuse just
as well as a breaker.

Doesn't explain why there has been a big drop in electrical fires.

And that the fires that didn't trip/blow the breaker/fuse were not
carrying more than the circuit's rated current.

Doesn't explain why there has been a big drop in electrical fires.

Corse that may be due to the much better insulation used now.

"charles" wrote in message
...
In article , Uncle Peter wrote:
On Wed, 22 Oct 2014 08:20:33 +0100, charles
wrote:

In article , Uncle Peter
wrote:
On Tue, 21 Oct 2014 23:46:42 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:

Martin Brown wrote
Uncle Peter wrote

A woman just told me she had her house rewired because it hadn't
been done for 30 years. Have you ever bothered? I mean if it
works, why not just leave it? Wire doesn't rot.

The copper wire might not but the insulation around it certainly
does - especially if there is some ozone about. Take a look at what
happens to Post Office rubber bands after a year or so and then
worry about it!

Rubber bands are nothing like the insulation used on electrical
wiring.

I have some old rubber extension cords that my dad had, must be well
over 60 years old now, they're still fine insulation wise.

The plastic extension cords I used when building the house 40 years
ago now are still fine and the insulated wiring in the house that I
did myself is even better, essentially because it was always better
than the extension cords and doesn't even get walked on because it's
a flat roof with only a max of 15" of space in the roof space. And
that stuff does get pretty hot in summer because its above the
ceiling insulation and below the metal deck roof and we routinely
have 10 days in a row over 100F, the roof space does get pretty hot
in summer.

If you are still on prehistoric round pin plugs and wire fuses then
it is probably time for a rewiring by now.

Makes more sense to just change the sockets and CU.

Mine was done with wire fuses, just because there was a shortage of
breakers at the time and the electrical supply authority had noticed
that I was powering the entire house from the builder's temporary
supply using an extension cord and so there was some urgency to to
the meter box and make it legal. I just use those breakers that plug
in in place of the fuse wire block.

Can't be arsed to redo the whole thing because that would involve
moving the meters and would involve getting an electrician to say he
did that and the two I know who would be happy to do that, one has
died of cancer and the other has moved away and couldn't be bothered
with the stupid training requirement to keep his license.

Why can't you move the meters yourself? If it's anything like mine,
there's a 100A fuse before the meter, which you can pull out while you
move the meter.

They should be sealed in place with a security tag which you break at
your peril.

Easy enough to buy a new tag and clamp tool. Or just leave it untagged
like an electrician I know does. The electricity board don't say
anything. After all it's the only way to shut off the electricity into
your house. My gas pipe has a shut off lever before the meter for an
emergency, so the electric should have the same.

why - can you have an electricity leak before the meter?

Corse you can with the wiring between the meter and the street cable.

On 22/10/2014 04:17, Rod Speed wrote:
Uncle Peter wrote
GB wrote
On 21/10/2014 23:30, Uncle Peter wrote

It appears she did. And when I said I had fuses she was horrified.

I've just had some fuses replaced with trip switches on a house I'm
letting out. It makes life an awful lot simpler.

Why is it simpler?

You just push the lever instead of finding some fuse wire and rewiring
the fuse.

Can you imagine a tenant doing this? More likely to ring the landlord in
the middle of the night.



Fuses hardly ever blow,

True.
unlike some breakers....

None of my plug in breakers that go where the fuse wire holder goes has
ever blown.

I agree. The only possibnble reason is if the house has, in its history had
a flood or some other disaster like a fire.
Brian

--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active
"Uncle Peter" wrote in message
news
A woman just told me she had her house rewired because it hadn't been done
for 30 years. Have you ever bothered? I mean if it works, why not just
leave it? Wire doesn't rot.

--
The light at the end of the tunnel is the headlamp of the oncoming train.

One thing it worth looking at though is the state of the sockets and if
their connections are loose, same goes for switches and any jointing
terminal blocks or whatever. Chances are at least one socket will be showing
signs of heat damage and several loose screws will be found.
Brian

--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active
"Uncle Peter" wrote in message
news
A woman just told me she had her house rewired because it hadn't been done
for 30 years. Have you ever bothered? I mean if it works, why not just
leave it? Wire doesn't rot.

--
The light at the end of the tunnel is the headlamp of the oncoming train.

In article ,
"Uncle Peter" writes:
A woman just told me she had her house rewired because it hadn't been done for 30 years. Have you ever bothered? I mean if it works, why not just leave it? Wire doesn't rot.

Cable:

At 30 years old, it will be PVC cable.
Life of PVC cable depends on running temperature. At max running temperature
(70C), life is estimated at 22 years. However, at room temperature, standard
PVC cable life is estimated at just over 1000 years, and most cables in a
home spend most of their time at room temperature.

Accessories:

Wiring accessories (sockets, switches, consumer units, lampholders, etc)
generally have a life of around 30 years. That's not to say they'll all
die at 30 years old, but the first ones will start deteriorating by then,
and you should consider an extensive inspection of them all to ensure
any are replaced before they become unsafe. You might take the opportunity
to change all the sockets and switches to a more current design, and so
they all still match.

Accessories which handle high currents (such as electric showers, hobs,
immersion heaters, etc) can age much more quickly, and in the process,
can generate local heating at the cable terminations which rapidly ages
the cable there too. These should be checked more often and high quality
versions chosen to give best life of the installation as a whole.

Design:

The design of a wiring installation will become outdated as it increasingly
fails to meet current needs.

In my parents' 1950's home (which was wired with a ring circuit and 13A
sockets, fortunately), the standard was one socket per room, with 2 in
the kitchen. They had to pay £1 for any extra sockets installed during
the build (they paid for 2 extra in the living room).

In early 1960's, the Parker Morris report on standards in council housing
was published, and recommended an increase on things like sockets. Although
it only applied to council housing, the result was that council houses of
the early 1960's were better quality than most new private occupier houses of
the time, and the whole housing industry quickly adopted much of the Parker
Morris report in order to catch up.

Nowadays, rooms will often have 12 lights, as many as 10 sockets (and
nearly all doubles, not singles), with a cluster around the expected
position of the entertainment centre. This is a far cry from a 1950's
home, which although the wiring is probably fine if not abused over the
years, original accessories will be well aging, and insufficient sockets
if not expanded over the years.


So there is no one answer. It depends...

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On Wed, 22 Oct 2014 10:01:02 +0100, Brian Gaff wrote:

One thing it worth looking at though is the state of the sockets and if
their connections are loose, same goes for switches and any jointing
terminal blocks or whatever. Chances are at least one socket will be showing
signs of heat damage and several loose screws will be found.
Brian

If something plugged in misbehaves when I knock the plug, then I look :-)

--
The average HB pencil can draw a line 4 miles long.

On Wed, 22 Oct 2014 09:56:42 +0100, GB wrote:

On 22/10/2014 04:17, Rod Speed wrote:
Uncle Peter wrote
GB wrote
On 21/10/2014 23:30, Uncle Peter wrote

It appears she did. And when I said I had fuses she was horrified.

I've just had some fuses replaced with trip switches on a house I'm
letting out. It makes life an awful lot simpler.

Why is it simpler?

You just push the lever instead of finding some fuse wire and rewiring
the fuse.

Can you imagine a tenant doing this? More likely to ring the landlord in
the middle of the night.

Because they don't know how to push a switch? Mind you when I worked for Sky, someone phoned up thinking their Sky box was broken. I figured out nothing on a socket was working (he had the light on and assumed there was therefore no powercut), and had to tell him likely places to look for a fusebox.

--
Why hasn't there ever been a woman on the moon?
It doesn't need cleaning yet.