We had our old boiler exchanged for a combi and its great having hot water
whenever you want it and our gas bills have reduced. However the problem I
find is that if I just want to wash my hands or rinse a cup out I have to
run the water for about 30 seconds to a minute before warm water comes
through. I'm not sure how our washing machine copes. Is it just our
boiler? None of the pipe runs are particularly long. Once the hot water is
through its great.

Anyway..

We are about to move to a house where they have a normal boiler that we
would like to replace so that we can remove the header tank in order to
enable us to convert the loft more easily, free up space in a cupboard where
the hot water storage tank is and so we can have instant hot water again.
However it would be nice to have 'instant' hot water rather than having to
run so much cold water away. Is there a way to do this? Is it possible to
fit a small hot water storage tank that would suffice for hand washing/
rinsing cups etc that is topped up by the combi?

ChrisJ

"ChrisJ" wrote in message
...
We had our old boiler exchanged for a combi and its great having hot water
whenever you want it and our gas bills have reduced. However the problem
I
find is that if I just want to wash my hands or rinse a cup out I have to
run the water for about 30 seconds to a minute before warm water comes
through. I'm not sure how our washing machine copes. Is it just our
boiler? None of the pipe runs are particularly long. Once the hot water
is
through its great.

Anyway..

We are about to move to a house where they have a normal boiler that we
would like to replace so that we can remove the header tank in order to
enable us to convert the loft more easily, free up space in a cupboard
where
the hot water storage tank is and so we can have instant hot water again.
However it would be nice to have 'instant' hot water rather than having to
run so much cold water away. Is there a way to do this? Is it possible
to
fit a small hot water storage tank that would suffice for hand washing/
rinsing cups etc that is topped up by the combi?

ChrisJ,

Most modern combi's have a small cylinder inside to overcome this lag
problem, or some have pre-warmed heat exchangers. Try a condensing combi to
keep bills right down. Worcester-Bosch do the Greenstar, a 40kW version,
delivering instant hot water at 16 litres a minute. A few others are around
with similar flowrates.



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On Thu, 20 Nov 2003 16:04:24 -0000, "ChrisJ"
wrote:

We had our old boiler exchanged for a combi and its great having hot water
whenever you want it and our gas bills have reduced. However the problem I
find is that if I just want to wash my hands or rinse a cup out I have to
run the water for about 30 seconds to a minute before warm water comes
through. I'm not sure how our washing machine copes. Is it just our
boiler? None of the pipe runs are particularly long. Once the hot water is
through its great.

Anyway..

We are about to move to a house where they have a normal boiler that we
would like to replace so that we can remove the header tank in order to
enable us to convert the loft more easily, free up space in a cupboard where
the hot water storage tank is and so we can have instant hot water again.
However it would be nice to have 'instant' hot water rather than having to
run so much cold water away. Is there a way to do this? Is it possible to
fit a small hot water storage tank that would suffice for hand washing/
rinsing cups etc that is topped up by the combi?

ChrisJ



A small electric undersink heater with storage could be a good
solution for that.


..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

In message , ChrisJ
writes
However it would be nice to have 'instant' hot water rather than having to
run so much cold water away. Is there a way to do this? Is it possible to
fit a small hot water storage tank that would suffice for hand washing/
rinsing cups etc that is topped up by the combi?

You can get combi's with built in storage tanks.
--
Chris French, Leeds

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 20 Nov 2003 16:04:24 -0000, "ChrisJ"
wrote:

We had our old boiler exchanged for a combi and its great having hot
water
whenever you want it and our gas bills have reduced. However the problem
I
find is that if I just want to wash my hands or rinse a cup out I have to
run the water for about 30 seconds to a minute before warm water comes
through. I'm not sure how our washing machine copes. Is it just our
boiler? None of the pipe runs are particularly long. Once the hot water
is
through its great.

Anyway..

We are about to move to a house where they have a normal boiler that we
would like to replace so that we can remove the header tank in order to
enable us to convert the loft more easily, free up space in a cupboard
where
the hot water storage tank is and so we can have instant hot water again.
However it would be nice to have 'instant' hot water rather than having
to
run so much cold water away. Is there a way to do this? Is it possible
to
fit a small hot water storage tank that would suffice for hand washing/
rinsing cups etc that is topped up by the combi?

ChrisJ

A small electric undersink heater with storage could be a good
solution for that.

As Chris wants a new combi, purchasing a combi with an integral storage
vessel is the answer, especially when heated by gas a 1/4 of the price.



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As stated about the Worcester Greenstar Condensing Combi -
"Key features of the Greenstar include the pre-heated domestic hot water
heat exchanger. After the store has reached temperature hot water is
delivered instantly to the outlet being operated. The temperature and
frequency of the recharge of the store may be pre-set. Modulating central
heating and domestic hot water outputs, combined with separate consumer
controls, also mean that comfortable temperature levels for both can be set
independently of each other."


--
Toby.

'One day son, all this will be finished'

"Toby" wrote in message
...
As stated about the Worcester Greenstar Condensing Combi -
"Key features of the Greenstar include the pre-heated domestic hot water
heat exchanger. After the store has reached temperature hot water is
delivered instantly to the outlet being operated. The temperature and
frequency of the recharge of the store may be pre-set. Modulating central
heating and domestic hot water outputs, combined with separate consumer
controls, also mean that comfortable temperature levels for both can be
set
independently of each other."

Does that meant that for short runs the boiler won't fire up but will use
water in the small tank and if you run the tap for longer then the bolier
kicks in?

EG I rinse a mug out, 5-10 seconds of water, boiler doesn't fire up HW
comes from mini storage tank.
I wash my hands water comes from hot water store until its level drops to a
certain level then boiler kicks in and supplies water to tap and refils
storage tank
I have a shower water comes from hot water store until its level drops to a
certain level then boiler kicks in and supplies water to shower and refills
storage tank when I've finished my shower.

I don't want to be heating a whole load of water I'll not be using or I'll
be in the same state as the house is now with a boiler and a hot water tank.

Any one suggest a website where I can find out more?

Chris J

"ChrisJ" wrote in message
...

"Toby" wrote in message
...
As stated about the Worcester Greenstar Condensing Combi -
"Key features of the Greenstar include the pre-heated domestic hot water
heat exchanger. After the store has reached temperature hot water is
delivered instantly to the outlet being operated. The temperature and
frequency of the recharge of the store may be pre-set. Modulating
central
heating and domestic hot water outputs, combined with separate consumer
controls, also mean that comfortable temperature levels for both can be
set
independently of each other."

Does that meant that for short runs the boiler won't fire up but will use
water in the small tank and if you run the tap for longer then the bolier
kicks in?

EG I rinse a mug out, 5-10 seconds of water, boiler doesn't fire up HW
comes from mini storage tank.
I wash my hands water comes from hot water store until its level drops to
a
certain level then boiler kicks in and supplies water to tap and refils
storage tank
I have a shower water comes from hot water store until its level drops to
a
certain level then boiler kicks in and supplies water to shower and
refills
storage tank when I've finished my shower.

I don't want to be heating a whole load of water I'll not be using or I'll
be in the same state as the house is now with a boiler and a hot water
tank.

Any one suggest a website where I can find out more?

Chris J

The tanks are usually well insulated and small. Some combi's have stay warm
heat exchangers. The boiler keeps the domestic hot water heat exchanger to
certain temp, so when hot water is drawn off there is no lag. The Greenstar
has a pre-heated domestic hot water heat exchanger. This is usually user
switchable, so you don't keep the heat exchanger hot when away for 6 weeks.

The lag is mainly because of the priming affect of the boilers fanned
controls. On start up, it has to purge the burner box with fresh air by
running the fan and determine if the fan is running, then the gas valve
switches in. This takes a little time.

The crappy Ravenheat condensing combi reduces the lag time by having the fan
continually run, so the gas valve switches in as soon as there is flow. This
costs more in electricity to needlessly run the fan and it also extracts
heat from the heat exchanger dumping it to the outside air. In sub-zero
temperatures freezing air is being drawing in so the frost controls cut in
to protect the heat exchanger and fire the burner, again wasting fuel. Best
avoided.



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"ChrisJ" wrote in message
...
We had our old boiler exchanged for a combi and its great having hot
water
whenever you want it and our gas bills have reduced. However the problem
I
find is that if I just want to wash my hands or rinse a cup out I have to
run the water for about 30 seconds to a minute before warm water comes
through. I'm not sure how our washing machine copes. Is it just our
boiler? None of the pipe runs are particularly long. Once the hot water
is
through its great.

Anyway..

We are about to move to a house where they have a normal boiler that we
would like to replace so that we can remove the header tank in order to
enable us to convert the loft more easily, free up space in a cupboard
where
the hot water storage tank is and so we can have instant hot water again.
However it would be nice to have 'instant' hot water rather than having
to
run so much cold water away. Is there a way to do this? Is it possible
to
fit a small hot water storage tank that would suffice for hand washing/
rinsing cups etc that is topped up by the combi?

ChrisJ


In some of the older combis there was a switchable preheat facility which
allowed the user to control keping a small store of water hot for immediate
hot flow on demand. More modern simple ones have largely lost this facility
in the name of progress and the drift towards plate type heat exchangers
rather than small calorifiers within the casing of the boiler.
You could select a current combi which does keep a store of hot water or
stick with a storage system. Can you find room for your extension by
perhaps relocating the tank and cylinder or changing to an unvented
cylinder whcih would at least "lose" the storage tank. With a cylinder of
either type you can have an immersion heater as backup in the event of
boiler breakdown.

The delay is due to the physical limitations of the boiler going through
its ignition and proving sequence before actually lighting the fire so to
speak. One of my customers was extremely ****ed off when he moved away into
a new house with a Sime "ordinary" combi which took about 40 seconds to
deliver hot water each time from cold and his water bills suddenly were
higher than his gas bills

"John" wrote in message
...

Is it possible to fit a small hot water
storage tank that would suffice for hand washing/
rinsing cups etc that is topped up by the combi?

In some of the older combis there was
a switchable preheat facility which
allowed the user to control keping a small
store of water hot for immediate
hot flow on demand. More modern simple ones
have largely lost this facility in the name of
progress

...and efficiency.

and the drift towards plate type heat exchangers
rather than small calorifiers within the casing of the boiler.

Plate heat exchangers are smaller and far more efficient.

You could select a current combi which
does keep a store of hot water or
stick with a storage system.

He wants a combi after having one previously. He sees the great benfits.

Can you find room for your extension by
perhaps relocating the tank and cylinder

Bad expensive move. He wants a combi after having one previously.

or changing to an unvented
cylinder whcih would at least "lose" the
storage tank.

....and is expensive to buy, large, and requires a BBA plumber to install.
Bad idea. A heat bank is far better, probably out of your experienece, but
you should get to know.

With a cylinder of either type you can
have an immersion heater as backup in the event of
boiler breakdown.

You can have a small instant electric water heater on the outlet of the
combi for backup, installed under a sink, at the back of a cupboard, etc.
takes no space.

The delay is due to the physical limitations of
the boiler going through its ignition and proving
sequence before actually lighting the fire so to
speak. One of my customers was extremely
****ed off when he moved away into
a new house with a Sime "ordinary" combi which
took about 40 seconds to deliver hot water each
time from cold and his water bills suddenly were
higher than his gas bills

That is a point in any water system with long dead leg hot water pipes too.
This lag is not just applicable to combi's.



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On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 19:56:53 -0000, "IMM" wrote:



You can have a small instant electric water heater on the outlet of the
combi for backup, installed under a sink, at the back of a cupboard, etc.
takes no space.


Yesterday, when I suggested that idea, you poo-pooed it.

Has the wind changed?


---

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
news
On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 19:56:53 -0000, "IMM" wrote:

You can have a small instant electric water heater on the outlet of the
combi for backup, installed under a sink, at the back of a cupboard, etc.
takes no space.

Yesterday, when I suggested that idea, you poo-pooed it.

You suggested a "storage electric heater" in place of a no lag combi (no
internal storage vessel or keep warm exchanger). Which is very different.
Having a storage heater in-line and using it to reduce the lag to the taps,
will not entail using a hell of lot of electricity as the water in the
electric storage vessel would be replaced by hot water from the combi. It
will use electricity to re-heat as it cools.

Best have an "instant" electric heater on the combi outlet as a backup, then
it will do a shower (well at least get you wet and washed).



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On Sat, 22 Nov 2003 10:10:51 -0000, "IMM" wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
news
On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 19:56:53 -0000, "IMM" wrote:

You can have a small instant electric water heater on the outlet of the
combi for backup, installed under a sink, at the back of a cupboard, etc.
takes no space.

Yesterday, when I suggested that idea, you poo-pooed it.

You suggested a "storage electric heater" in place of a no lag combi (no
internal storage vessel or keep warm exchanger). Which is very different.

No I didn't. I simply suggested the electric heater as a solution to
be fitted near the point of delivery - I didn't mention the combi at
all. Even with water stored in a combi, there is still the cool
water in the pipes between it and the point of use.


Having a storage heater in-line and using it to reduce the lag to the taps,
will not entail using a hell of lot of electricity as the water in the
electric storage vessel would be replaced by hot water from the combi. It
will use electricity to re-heat as it cools.

That could be done, and I didn't exclude it in what I said. However,
the electric heater would be filled with cool water from the pipes
even in this case, so I don't think that it is that big a win.


Best have an "instant" electric heater on the combi outlet as a backup, then
it will do a shower (well at least get you wet and washed).


I'm glad you qualified that.

All of this does strike me as additional reasons as to why combi
boilers are rather limited in function and performance.





---

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...

You can have a small instant electric water heater on the outlet of
the
combi for backup, installed under a sink, at the back of a cupboard,
etc.
takes no space.

Yesterday, when I suggested that idea, you poo-pooed it.

You suggested a "storage electric heater" in place of a no lag combi (no
internal storage vessel or keep warm exchanger). Which is very
different.

No I didn't. I simply suggested the electric
heater as a solution to be fitted near the point
of delivery - I didn't mention the combi at
all.

The thread/point was about combi hot water delivery lag.

Even with water stored in a combi, there is still the cool
water in the pipes between it and the point of use.

That is the case for any water system, cylinder or not. A combi is
generally located in the kirchen near the most used tap, so less dead leg
draw-off.

Having a storage heater in-line and using it to reduce the lag to the
taps,
will not entail using a hell of lot of electricity as the water in the
electric storage vessel would be replaced by hot water from the combi.
It
will use electricity to re-heat as it cools.

That could be done, and I didn't exclude it in what I said.

That "is" what you said.

However, the electric heater would be filled
with cool water from the pipes
even in this case, so I don't think that it is that big a win.

An "instant" in-line electric heater is for backup in case the combi is
down.

Best have an "instant" electric heater on the combi outlet as a backup,
then
it will do a shower (well at least get you wet and washed).

I'm glad you qualified that.

All of this does strike me as additional reasons as to why combi
boilers are rather limited in function and performance.

You really haven't a clue have you? A reduced lag combi will perform just
like a cylinder system in speed of hot water delivery and even better if the
combi is in the kitchen. The instant in-line electric heater is for backup
only. Got it? I doubt it!

And England have just taken the lead against the Aussies 17-14.




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"IMM" wrote in message
...

And England have just taken the lead against the Aussies 17-14.

And England have just won the world cup 20-17.



---
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On Sat, 22 Nov 2003 11:02:45 -0000, "IMM" wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
.. .

You can have a small instant electric water heater on the outlet of
the
combi for backup, installed under a sink, at the back of a cupboard,
etc.
takes no space.

Yesterday, when I suggested that idea, you poo-pooed it.

You suggested a "storage electric heater" in place of a no lag combi (no
internal storage vessel or keep warm exchanger). Which is very
different.

No I didn't. I simply suggested the electric
heater as a solution to be fitted near the point
of delivery - I didn't mention the combi at
all.

The thread/point was about combi hot water delivery lag.

... and I suggested a reasonable solution for it.


Even with water stored in a combi, there is still the cool
water in the pipes between it and the point of use.

That is the case for any water system, cylinder or not. A combi is
generally located in the kirchen near the most used tap, so less dead leg
draw-off.

Having a storage heater in-line and using it to reduce the lag to the
taps,
will not entail using a hell of lot of electricity as the water in the
electric storage vessel would be replaced by hot water from the combi.
It
will use electricity to re-heat as it cools.

That could be done, and I didn't exclude it in what I said.

That "is" what you said.

I know what I said, and it was quite clear.


However, the electric heater would be filled
with cool water from the pipes
even in this case, so I don't think that it is that big a win.

An "instant" in-line electric heater is for backup in case the combi is
down.

Pretty useless, even if a moderately powerful one requiring heavy
grade wiring were used. A poor backup compared even with a cylinder
plus immersion heater.


Best have an "instant" electric heater on the combi outlet as a backup,
then
it will do a shower (well at least get you wet and washed).

I'm glad you qualified that.

All of this does strike me as additional reasons as to why combi
boilers are rather limited in function and performance.

You really haven't a clue have you? A reduced lag combi will perform just
like a cylinder system in speed of hot water delivery and even better if the
combi is in the kitchen.

I didn't say that it wouldn't

The instant in-line electric heater is for backup
only. Got it? I doubt it!

A rather silly suggestion.


And England have just taken the lead against the Aussies 17-14.


In fact England won. Try and keep up.....





---

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
news
On Sat, 22 Nov 2003 11:02:45 -0000, "IMM" wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
.. .

You can have a small instant electric water heater on the outlet of
the
combi for backup, installed under a sink, at the back of a
cupboard,
etc.
takes no space.

Yesterday, when I suggested that idea, you poo-pooed it.

You suggested a "storage electric heater" in place of a no lag combi
(no
internal storage vessel or keep warm exchanger). Which is very
different.

No I didn't. I simply suggested the electric
heater as a solution to be fitted near the point
of delivery - I didn't mention the combi at
all.

The thread/point was about combi hot water delivery lag.

.. and I suggested a reasonable solution for it.

A silly one when combi's are available that eliminate this problem. the OP
was after a "new" combi, not attempting to rectify a problem on an existing
unit.

Even with water stored in a combi, there is still the cool
water in the pipes between it and the point of use.

That is the case for any water system, cylinder or not. A combi is
generally located in the kirchen near the most used tap, so less dead leg
draw-off.

Having a storage heater in-line and using it to reduce the lag to the
taps,
will not entail using a hell of lot of electricity as the water in the
electric storage vessel would be replaced by hot water from the combi.
It
will use electricity to re-heat as it cools.

That could be done, and I didn't exclude it in what I said.

That "is" what you said.

I know what I said, and it was quite clear.

However, the electric heater would be filled
with cool water from the pipes
even in this case, so I don't think that it is that big a win.

An "instant" in-line electric heater is for backup in case the combi is
down.

Pretty useless, even if a moderately powerful one requiring heavy
grade wiring were used. A poor backup compared even with a cylinder
plus immersion heater.

Some electric instants can manage two taps. It is for backup for a day or
so when the combi is down. Not everyone can have an unnecessary large
cylinder.

Best have an "instant" electric heater on the combi outlet as a
backup,
then
it will do a shower (well at least get you wet and washed).

I'm glad you qualified that.

All of this does strike me as additional reasons as to why combi
boilers are rather limited in function and performance.

You really haven't a clue have you? A reduced lag combi will perform
just
like a cylinder system in speed of hot water delivery and even better if
the
combi is in the kitchen.

I didn't say that it wouldn't

The instant in-line electric heater is for backup
only. Got it? I doubt it!

A rather silly suggestion.

What suggestion might that be?

And England have just taken the lead against the Aussies 17-14.

In fact England won. Try and keep up.....

I wrote that when they had "just taken the lead against the Aussies 17-14".
Duh!


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On Sat, 22 Nov 2003 12:10:57 -0000, "IMM" wrote:



Some electric instants can manage two taps.

Doing what? Certainly not delivering any meaningful supply. You'll be
saying that electric showers are worthwhile next.

It is for backup for a day or
so when the combi is down. Not everyone can have an unnecessary large
cylinder.

There are loads of benefits in having a store of energy in a cylinder
either directly or as a heatbank (as you often say yourself).




And England have just taken the lead against the Aussies 17-14.

In fact England won. Try and keep up.....

I wrote that when they had "just taken the lead against the Aussies 17-14".
Duh!


Exactly. Situations change rapidly, just like your
suggestions......... :-)



---

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...

Some electric instants can manage two taps.

Doing what? Certainly not delivering any meaningful supply. You'll be
saying that electric showers are worthwhile next.

You really are not that bright are you? the electric instant is for a
bnackup only. You will have enough hot water to fill a sink or two and have
a low grade shower. The washing machine and dishwashers will have their own
electric heaters. The point you will have hot water. Got it? I doubt it.

It is for backup for a day or
so when the combi is down. Not everyone
can have an unnecessary large cylinder.

There are loads of benefits in having
a store of energy in a cylinder
either directly or as a heatbank (as you
often say yourself).

You didn't read did you, or not bright enough to get a simple point. The
man wants a combi for the clear advantages it gives, which is not having a
cylinder taking up space and not to mention the installation costs of one.

And England have just taken the lead against the Aussies 17-14.

In fact England won. Try and keep up.....

I wrote that when they had "just taken the lead against the Aussies
17-14".
Duh!

Exactly. Situations change rapidly, just like your
suggestions......... :-)

England hadn't won when I hit the send key. Duh! Did you want me to
predict the final score and who won at the time?


---
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Exactly. Situations change rapidly, just like your
suggestions......... :-)

England hadn't won when I hit the send key. Duh! Did you want me to
predict the final score and who won at the time?

FFS children, either answer the question or shut up, there is no need to
argue like a pair of 5 year olds. I'd imagine the guy who asked the question
has gone off to find another group already!

Hellraiser.......

On Sat, 22 Nov 2003 13:23:02 -0000, "IMM" wrote:

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
.. .

Some electric instants can manage two taps.

Doing what? Certainly not delivering any meaningful supply. You'll be
saying that electric showers are worthwhile next.

You really are not that bright are you? the electric instant is for a
bnackup only. You will have enough hot water to fill a sink or two and have
a low grade shower.

Very low grade.

The washing machine and dishwashers will have their own
electric heaters. The point you will have hot water. Got it? I doubt it.

It is for backup for a day or
so when the combi is down. Not everyone
can have an unnecessary large cylinder.

There are loads of benefits in having
a store of energy in a cylinder
either directly or as a heatbank (as you
often say yourself).

You didn't read did you, or not bright enough to get a simple point. The
man wants a combi for the clear advantages it gives, which is not having a
cylinder taking up space and not to mention the installation costs of one.

Advantages over what? The space saving is minimal, and never seems
to be a problem when you recommend a heatbank. A certain
inconsistency......



And England have just taken the lead against the Aussies 17-14.

In fact England won. Try and keep up.....

I wrote that when they had "just taken the lead against the Aussies
17-14".
Duh!

Exactly. Situations change rapidly, just like your
suggestions......... :-)

England hadn't won when I hit the send key. Duh! Did you want me to
predict the final score and who won at the time?


Of course.. :-)

---

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

"Hellraiser" wrote in message
...
Exactly. Situations change rapidly, just like your
suggestions......... :-)

England hadn't won when I hit the send key. Duh! Did you want me to
predict the final score and who won at the time?

FFS children, either answer the question or shut up,

What question?


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In article , Andy Hall
writes

Advantages over what? The space saving is minimal, and never seems
to be a problem when you recommend a heatbank. A certain
inconsistency......

quite. The idiot IMM also favours modern houses which are built like
rabbit hutches (space and quality wise) and so have no room for a
storage cylinder anyway. One of the great advantages of older houses is
that there's room to move about.

--
A. Top posters.
Q. What's the most annoying thing on Usenet?

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...

Some electric instants can manage two taps.

Doing what? Certainly not delivering any
meaningful supply. You'll be
saying that electric showers are worthwhile next.

You really are not that bright are you?
the electric instant is for a backup only.
You will have enough hot water to fill a sink
or two and have a low grade shower.

Very low grade.

Enough to get washed while the combi gets fixed.

You didn't read did you, or not bright
enough to get a simple point. The
man wants a combi for the clear advantages
it gives, which is not having a
cylinder taking up space and not to mention
the installation costs of one.

Advantages over what? The space saving is minimal,

Nonsense! A cylinder & tank take up a large volume. And in a flat or small
house that is a lot.

and never seems
to be a problem when you
recommend a heatbank. A certain
inconsistency......

You are very bright! A heat bank is when a combi cannot cope and they can
do bathrooms.

England hadn't won when I hit the send key.
Duh! Did you want me to
predict the final score and who won at the time?

Of course.. :-)

If I could do that I would be 5 mill richer each week.


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"Mike Tomlinson" wrote in message
...
In article , Andy Hall
writes

Advantages over what? The space saving is minimal, and never seems
to be a problem when you recommend a heatbank. A certain
inconsistency......

quite. The idiot IMM also favours modern houses which are built like
rabbit hutches (space and quality wise) and so have no room for a
storage cylinder anyway. One of the great advantages of older houses is
that there's room to move about.

This fool obviously has never been in modern house. You can keep your cold,
damp asthma infested old crocks.

For your info on your lovable old house...


There are currently three million people in the UK living in 1.5 million
homes officially classified as unfit, and this situation is unlikely to
improve in the foreseeable future. 2.5 million homes suffer from severe
damp, and the cost of remedying these conditions is estimated between 46 and
70 billion pounds.

House conditions were found to contribute to "chronic chest disease",
hypothermia and digestive condition.

The above was some of the findings of a report commissioned by the Joseph
Rowntree Organisation published by the National Housing Forum in 1996. The
situation has changed little since then. In fact the UK (pop 60 million)
last year built only 3 times as many homes as Ireland (pop 3.4 million). The
situation is chronic, and the land issue is at the base of all the ills.




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In article , IMM
writes

This fool obviously has never been in modern house. You can keep your cold,
damp asthma infested old crocks.

You're the fool for wanting to live in a jerry-built timber-framed
rabbit hutch, squeezed onto an "estate" with umpteen characterless clone
"executive showhouses", built down to the lowest possible price (see the
current thread on ring main sizing in a new house) by greedy cowboy
builders, with inadequate foundations (see http://www.wronglybuilthouses
..co.uk/) on land prone to flooding. The NHBC "guarantee" appears to be
worthless, run by a cartel funded by the cowboy builders themselves.

On the other hand, my 1930's semi-detached is solidly built, toasty
warm, has been rewired and replumbed to a high standard, has new
windows, a new kitchen, a new bathroom, and best of all, room to move
around in. And it has character.

HTH, HAND, FOAD.

"Mike Tomlinson" wrote in message
...
In article , IMM
writes

This fool obviously has never been in modern house.
You can keep your cold,
damp asthma infested old crocks.

You're the fool for wanting to live in a jerry-built

Says who?

timber-framed rabbit hutch,

I know some "very large" brand new homes. You know nothing of timber framed
homes to make such a silly remark.

squeezed onto an "estate" with
umpteen characterless clone
"executive showhouses",

I know of some new homes with lots of character and every home different
around.

built down to the lowest possible price (see the
current thread on ring main sizing in a new house) by greedy cowboy
builders, with inadequate foundations (see http://www.wronglybuilthouses
.co.uk/) on land prone to flooding. The NHBC "guarantee" appears to be
worthless, run by a cartel funded by the cowboy builders themselves.

I know of many old homes that flood. I know of many 1920-30s semi's that
were Jerry built and super small and have foundation problems.

On the other hand, my 1930's semi-detached
is solidly built, toasty warm,

Toasty warm? They had NO insulation whatsoever. They cost more to heat
than a very large new detached house. Solidly built? They have wooden
ground floors that make moise when you walk on them, unlike modern homes
with insulated silent solid floors.

has been rewired and replumbed to a high standard,

Do you mean that modern plumbing and wiring that is in new houses?

has new windows, a new kitchen, a new bathroom,

Do you mean those modern windows, kitchen and bathrooms that are in new
houses?

and best of all, room to move
around in.

New homes are largere than those awful inter-war semi's.

And it has character.

I have yet to see ANY inter-war semi with any character whatsoever. You
must be dreaming. In the 1920-30s the then new semi's were castigated.
Some idiot called Benjamin made derogatory poems about them. He did have a
point!

Do you have 2.2 children as well?



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