I went to help an elderly partially sighted lady with her new computer.My first real experience of Windows 8.

I thought I was good with computers but I felt like I'd never used one before and left wanting to firebomb the nearest Microsoft office!

It's like someone taking a car and swapping the pedals round, putting the ignition key in the rear wing and the steering wheel in the glove box. Is Windows 8 an improvement for some? I'd like to know who they are!!

On 17/04/14 20:36, Murmansk wrote:
I went to help an elderly partially sighted lady with her new
computer.My first real experience of Windows 8.

I thought I was good with computers but I felt like I'd never used
one before and left wanting to firebomb the nearest Microsoft
office!

It's like someone taking a car and swapping the pedals round, putting
the ignition key in the rear wing and the steering wheel in the glove
box. Is Windows 8 an improvement for some? I'd like to know who they
are!!


Partially sighted? You need to the opposite configuration to most folks
then.

Make sure she never gets to the desktop.... Do everything via metro apps.

(tablet may have been a better choice)

--
Adrian C

On 17/04/2014 20:36, Murmansk wrote:
I went to help an elderly partially sighted lady with her new computer.My first real experience of Windows 8.

I thought I was good with computers but I felt like I'd never used one before and left wanting to firebomb the nearest Microsoft office!

It's like someone taking a car and swapping the pedals round, putting the ignition key in the rear wing and the steering wheel in the glove box. Is Windows 8 an improvement for some? I'd like to know who they are!!

People whose first experience with a computer was a tablet.

I'm just getting to grips with an Android machine. I'm not* enjoying the
experience

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

On 17/04/2014 20:36, Murmansk wrote:
I went to help an elderly partially sighted lady with her new
computer.My first real experience of Windows 8.

I thought I was good with computers but I felt like I'd never used
one before and left wanting to firebomb the nearest Microsoft
office!

Similar to the feeling I get when trying to install MS Office 2013...

It's like someone taking a car and swapping the pedals round, putting
the ignition key in the rear wing and the steering wheel in the glove
box. Is Windows 8 an improvement for some? I'd like to know who they
are!!

Try:

http://www.classicshell.net/

brings back some semblance of sanity


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

John Williamson wrote
Murmansk wrote

I went to help an elderly partially sighted lady with her
new computer.My first real experience of Windows 8.

I thought I was good with computers but I felt
like I'd never used one before and left wanting
to firebomb the nearest Microsoft office!

Some always feel like that with every major step with any OS.

It's like someone taking a car and swapping the
pedals round, putting the ignition key in the rear
wing and the steering wheel in the glove box.

Some always feel like that with every major step with any OS.

Is Windows 8 an improvement for some?

Yes.

I'd like to know who they are!!

Those who use modern touch systems.

People whose first experience with a computer was a tablet.

And those who use touch systems now.

I'm just getting to grips with an Android machine.
I'm not* enjoying the experience

I do generally enjoy getting to grips with any major
new OS but I am certainly an exception in that regard.

I do generally prefer iOS in most areas, basically because
its rather more polished than Android, but like with any
major new OS, there will always be some real downsides.
The fact that Apple gets any say on what can be run is
the main downside with iOS. Another is that it isnt even
possible to try a new release of the OS and decide that
you would rather use a previous version once Apple
has decided that they won't allow any stepping back.
And the fact the Apple chooses to no bother with any
low horsepower/cheap hardware is a major downside
for some who just can't justify Apple prices. Not relevant
to me except that it does mean that some who ask for advice
on what to buy can't go that route because of the price.

On 17/04/14 20:36, Murmansk wrote:
I went to help an elderly partially sighted lady with her new computer.My first real experience of Windows 8.

I thought I was good with computers but I felt like I'd never used one before and left wanting to firebomb the nearest Microsoft office!

It's like someone taking a car and swapping the pedals round, putting the ignition key in the rear wing and the steering wheel in the glove box. Is Windows 8 an improvement for some? I'd like to know who they are!!

Hmmm. I hate it, but feel it works OK for users without complex needs:
the Start screen kind of works. hate trying to set it up though, nearly
threw it across the room.

On 17/04/2014 20:51, John Rumm wrote:
On 17/04/2014 20:36, Murmansk wrote:
I went to help an elderly partially sighted lady with her new
computer.My first real experience of Windows 8.

I thought I was good with computers but I felt like I'd never used
one before and left wanting to firebomb the nearest Microsoft
office!

Similar to the feeling I get when trying to install MS Office 2013...

It's like someone taking a car and swapping the pedals round, putting
the ignition key in the rear wing and the steering wheel in the glove
box. Is Windows 8 an improvement for some? I'd like to know who they
are!!

Try:

http://www.classicshell.net/

brings back some semblance of sanity


I started with that shell, but then went back. We now have three laptops
on 8.1, plus two windows phones (7.1 and 8). I have android tablets
(Samsung and Nexus). On the laptops, I use the desktop for "normal" work
but use the "apps" by touch quite a lot.

I agree that the learning curve is a bit steep, but I can now see where
MS is coming from. I *almost* got a non-touch laptop as my new "work"
machine, but now I am very glad I went for touch. It's surprising how
useful it is, especially when mobile, once you get used to it.

I'm still getting frustrated with the new-look of office 2010 though as
I am using both that and 2003.

On 17/04/2014 20:36, Murmansk wrote:
I went to help an elderly partially sighted lady with her new computer.My first real experience of Windows 8.

I thought I was good with computers but I felt like I'd never used one before and left wanting to firebomb the nearest Microsoft office!

It's like someone taking a car and swapping the pedals round, putting the ignition key in the rear wing and the steering wheel in the glove box. Is Windows 8 an improvement for some? I'd like to know who they are!!

8.1 is, in my view, considerably more acceptable.

I still find it incredibly annoying that you end up with, for example,
two versions of Internet Explorer. That simply causes confusion.

I am quite impressed that the whole installation process is pretty
slick. Shame that the updates (e.g. from 8 to 8.1) involve such huge
downloads - 3.6 or 3.8 GB, from memory. Fine if you have a very fast
internet connection, impossible if yours is slow.

--
Rod

newshound wrote:

On 17/04/2014 20:51, John Rumm wrote:

http://www.classicshell.net/

brings back some semblance of sanity

I started with that shell, but then went back.

I bought a Win8 laptop last summer, but somehow hadn't turned it on for
months... A couple of days ago I did, applied all the pending windows
updates, then installed W8.1, which appears to have arrived with the
subsequent 'update 1' included. My first few uses were really exasperating,
but once I got some useful shortcuts onto the desktop, and now with the very
basic 'start menu' (if you right-click the desktop's start button) I'm much
less put-off by it.

For me, coming from XP, I'm more worried about getting to grips with UAC
which I certainly do not intend to turn off, and getting the scripts etc
which run on my other machines (all XP Pro or Home) adapted to work on the
the new machine.

I chose to get W8, even with all the negative publicity, because I'm willing
to believe that the user interface issues can be worked around, but I want
the underlying OS changes, going from XP - W8, eg changes in the way that
memory is managed to make process/memory isolation better... (I've a
degree in computing & spent much of my working life maintaining a mainframe
OS, so OS (rather than GUI) stuff matters to me.)

I can't stand "File Explorer" though and am thinking seriously about
installing one of the various Explorer replacement tools, probably
"xplorer2". As it is countless scripts I run issue commands to Windows
Explorer and if they can be changed to issue commands to a more versatile
equivalent, so much the better. It seems to me that if I have to learn a
new way of operating a machine, I may as well learn xplorer2 rather than FE.


--
Jeremy C B Nicoll - my opinions are my own.

Email sent to my from-address will be deleted. Instead, please reply
to replacing "aaa" by "284".

On 17/04/2014 22:28, newshound wrote:
On 17/04/2014 20:51, John Rumm wrote:
On 17/04/2014 20:36, Murmansk wrote:
I went to help an elderly partially sighted lady with her new
computer.My first real experience of Windows 8.

I thought I was good with computers but I felt like I'd never used
one before and left wanting to firebomb the nearest Microsoft
office!

Similar to the feeling I get when trying to install MS Office 2013...

It's like someone taking a car and swapping the pedals round, putting
the ignition key in the rear wing and the steering wheel in the glove
box. Is Windows 8 an improvement for some? I'd like to know who they
are!!

Try:

http://www.classicshell.net/

brings back some semblance of sanity


I started with that shell, but then went back. We now have three laptops
on 8.1, plus two windows phones (7.1 and 8). I have android tablets
(Samsung and Nexus). On the laptops, I use the desktop for "normal" work
but use the "apps" by touch quite a lot.

I agree that the learning curve is a bit steep, but I can now see where
MS is coming from. I *almost* got a non-touch laptop as my new "work"
machine, but now I am very glad I went for touch. It's surprising how
useful it is, especially when mobile, once you get used to it.

I get what they are trying to do, I just can't see why they are trying
to do it with windows[1]. Touch is of no benefit whatsoever on my 3520 x
1200 desktop, and if someone touches my screens and gets finger prints
on them I will break the fingers!

For a tablet, sure the new UI is fine - although the classic desktop is
of limited use. Its only the very limited small multi use machines that
can morph between tablet and ultra portable laptop where it actually
makes any sense.

I'm still getting frustrated with the new-look of office 2010 though as
I am using both that and 2003.

I can cope with that better since I was never particularly into office
in any version... my main difficulty is putting up with the water pistol
that is Word having got used to the GPMG that was WP5.1 ;-)

[1] Had they had brought out three discrete products (or perhaps
version), say "Windows Tiles" or "WinTab" that just had the new UI as a
platform for Arm and x86 tablets, and then say WinTab Ultimate that is
what we currently call Win 8, plus finally Win 8 Pre/Pro that was just a
classic desktop Win 8 with the internal and architectural enhancements
and a classic desktop, I can't help felling they would have had much
better acceptance.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

Exactly.
I've got a copy, but after talking to others its still in its box.
Apparently the very latest incarnation now detects if you do not have a
touch screen and puts the windows 7 type interface up if this is the case.
In other words, they are admitting they were wrong to try to make it a tonka
toy touch screen system in the first place. Horses for courses comes to mind
and not one size fits all as it was at the start. Everyone told them this
of course during development, but obviously some person there
wasarrogant enough to think they knew better.
Me? Day to day work is still on xp, as it works, and I'm using 7 for other
stuff, and may clone one to put 8.xx on over that later on to just see if
its fixed.
I think one other thing might help many partially sighted folk, there are
now third party shells available to make it look and feel like earlier
windows did. classic Shell is one of these.
Be careful though if the person is ever going to need a proper
screenreader, as although looks are the same, there is no garantee that a
third party will impliment UAC otr Msaa accessability for the menus etc.
It may then not speak correctly.
Brian

--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active
"Murmansk" wrote in message
...
I went to help an elderly partially sighted lady with her new computer.My
first real experience of Windows 8.

I thought I was good with computers but I felt like I'd never used one
before and left wanting to firebomb the nearest Microsoft office!

It's like someone taking a car and swapping the pedals round, putting the
ignition key in the rear wing and the steering wheel in the glove box. Is
Windows 8 an improvement for some? I'd like to know who they are!!

No don't do everything through metro apps. Do the reverse and just increase
the font size and show her how the magnifier works.
The snag with metro is that they are often purely touch and also many
commercial packages with screenreaders cannot work with them well.

They are really aimed at sighted folk. As I said its idiosyncratic in the
extreme to have giant tonka tiles and then present the user with fiddly
touch apps.
Brian

--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active
"Adrian C" wrote in message
...
On 17/04/14 20:36, Murmansk wrote:
I went to help an elderly partially sighted lady with her new
computer.My first real experience of Windows 8.

I thought I was good with computers but I felt like I'd never used
one before and left wanting to firebomb the nearest Microsoft
office!

It's like someone taking a car and swapping the pedals round, putting
the ignition key in the rear wing and the steering wheel in the glove
box. Is Windows 8 an improvement for some? I'd like to know who they
are!!


Partially sighted? You need to the opposite configuration to most folks
then.

Make sure she never gets to the desktop.... Do everything via metro apps.

(tablet may have been a better choice)

--
Adrian C

I often think people who design interfaces have forgotten the old adage.
If its not broken, then don't fix it. By all means add a new front end as
an option for touch systems, but leave the rest alone.


Brian

--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active
"John Williamson" wrote in message
...
On 17/04/2014 20:36, Murmansk wrote:
I went to help an elderly partially sighted lady with her new computer.My
first real experience of Windows 8.

I thought I was good with computers but I felt like I'd never used one
before and left wanting to firebomb the nearest Microsoft office!

It's like someone taking a car and swapping the pedals round, putting the
ignition key in the rear wing and the steering wheel in the glove box. Is
Windows 8 an improvement for some? I'd like to know who they are!!

People whose first experience with a computer was a tablet.

I'm just getting to grips with an Android machine. I'm not* enjoying the
experience

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

Yes, Office 2003 is now over its support life, but both it and the earlier
Office XP are far easier to use than the ones from 2007 onward are. The
ribbon approach sounded like a a good idea until you actually had to use it.
Such is life and i suppose those who never knew the old menus and toolbars
have no problems, but I do and will probably go down the Open Office route
on any new machine.
Brian

--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active
"newshound" wrote in message
...
On 17/04/2014 20:51, John Rumm wrote:
On 17/04/2014 20:36, Murmansk wrote:
I went to help an elderly partially sighted lady with her new
computer.My first real experience of Windows 8.

I thought I was good with computers but I felt like I'd never used
one before and left wanting to firebomb the nearest Microsoft
office!

Similar to the feeling I get when trying to install MS Office 2013...

It's like someone taking a car and swapping the pedals round, putting
the ignition key in the rear wing and the steering wheel in the glove
box. Is Windows 8 an improvement for some? I'd like to know who they
are!!

Try:

http://www.classicshell.net/

brings back some semblance of sanity


I started with that shell, but then went back. We now have three laptops
on 8.1, plus two windows phones (7.1 and 8). I have android tablets
(Samsung and Nexus). On the laptops, I use the desktop for "normal" work
but use the "apps" by touch quite a lot.

I agree that the learning curve is a bit steep, but I can now see where MS
is coming from. I *almost* got a non-touch laptop as my new "work"
machine, but now I am very glad I went for touch. It's surprising how
useful it is, especially when mobile, once you get used to it.

I'm still getting frustrated with the new-look of office 2010 though as I
am using both that and 2003.

On Fri, 18 Apr 2014 08:48:07 +0100, Brian Gaff wrote:

I often think people who design interfaces have forgotten the old adage.
If its not broken, then don't fix it. By all means add a new front end
as
an option for touch systems, but leave the rest alone.

Ah, but then it's hard to justify an upgrade.

As it happens, I prefer the ribbon. Perhaps because I only got seriously
into Office when 2007 came out.

--
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
My posts (including this one) are my copyright and if @diy_forums on
Twitter wish to tweet them they can pay me £30 a post
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

On 18/04/2014 08:41, Brian Gaff wrote:
Exactly.
I've got a copy, but after talking to others its still in its box.
Apparently the very latest incarnation now detects if you do not have a
touch screen and puts the windows 7 type interface up if this is the case.
In other words, they are admitting they were wrong to try to make it a tonka
toy touch screen system in the first place. Horses for courses comes to mind
and not one size fits all as it was at the start. Everyone told them this
of course during development, but obviously some person there
wasarrogant enough to think they knew better.
Me? Day to day work is still on xp, as it works, and I'm using 7 for other
stuff, and may clone one to put 8.xx on over that later on to just see if
its fixed.
I think one other thing might help many partially sighted folk, there are
now third party shells available to make it look and feel like earlier
windows did. classic Shell is one of these.
Be careful though if the person is ever going to need a proper
screenreader, as although looks are the same, there is no garantee that a
third party will impliment UAC otr Msaa accessability for the menus etc.
It may then not speak correctly.
Brian


For anyone who isn't interested in computers, the Chromebook *sounds*
like a no brainer.

On 17/04/2014 22:49 polygonum wrote:

I am quite impressed that the whole installation process is pretty
slick. Shame that the updates (e.g. from 8 to 8.1) involve such huge
downloads - 3.6 or 3.8 GB, from memory. Fine if you have a very fast
internet connection, impossible if yours is slow.

Not impossible, just give it time. I went from 8 to 8.1 on my laptop one
afternoon on a ship off the coast of Norway.

--
F

F wrote:

polygonum wrote:

I am quite impressed that the whole installation process is pretty
slick. Shame that the updates (e.g. from 8 to 8.1) involve such huge
downloads - 3.6 or 3.8 GB,

Not impossible, just give it time

I downloaded my 8.1 upgrade over 4G, much faster than my home ADSL
connection, for some odd reason Tesco gave me 11GB during my 3G-4G
changeover month.

On 18 Apr 2014, "Brian Gaff" grunted:

I've got a copy, but after talking to others its still in its box.
Apparently the very latest incarnation now detects if you do not have
a touch screen and puts the windows 7 type interface up if this is the
case.

Well as the not-so-proud of two XP machines currently sitting redundant
while I work out my next step (yeah I know, bit late) that sounds
slightly better news I suppose. I'm just so seriously ****ed off that
M$ can get away with scrapping XP like this which is the only reason I
need to ditch two machines which are perfectly adequate for my (family)
needs (which cannot include Linux). But the part that's really sent me
into orbit is that I have a kosher, paid-for copy of Office 2010 on one
of these PCs, but it has a one-time license only that means I can't even
move it to another machine. Unbelievable.

Me? Day to day work is still on xp, as it works,

Anyone know an easy way of disabling all internet access from an XP
machine, while retaining LAN capability? That might be one short-term fix
for me.

--
David

On 18/04/2014 02:18, John Rumm wrote:

[1] Had they had brought out three discrete products (or perhaps
version), say "Windows Tiles" or "WinTab" that just had the new UI as a
platform for Arm and x86 tablets, and then say WinTab Ultimate that is
what we currently call Win 8, plus finally Win 8 Pre/Pro that was just a
classic desktop Win 8 with the internal and architectural enhancements
and a classic desktop, I can't help felling they would have had much
better acceptance.

I rather agree.

I find one of the problems is switching between touch and non-touch
devices. I can easily remember that my Android phone is touch and my
laptop (W7) is non-touch. But when you regularly switch between Windows
8 in various guises, for example, phone (my work phone), MS Surface
(work "laptop"), numerous laptops and desktops, some with and some
without touch, I get caught all the flaming time.

--
Rod

On 18/04/2014 10:24 Lobster wrote:

Anyone know an easy way of disabling all internet access from an XP
machine, while retaining LAN capability?

Remove the cable connecting the router to the phone socket?

--
F

On Fri, 18 Apr 2014 09:24:58 +0000, Lobster wrote:

Anyone know an easy way of disabling all internet access from an XP
machine, while retaining LAN capability? That might be one short-term
fix for me.

Give it a fixed IP, and firewall it off at the router if you can. In my
case I have a separate firewall and I'd just do it there.
--
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
My posts (including this one) are my copyright and if @diy_forums on
Twitter wish to tweet them they can pay me £30 a post
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

On 18/04/14 12:37, Tim Streater wrote:

Why do you need to ditch them? It worked the day before MS "scrapped"
XP, it'll work the day after.

If you all are unable to function without MS "support" you shouldn't
have bought into this ****e in the first place.

I know of lots of Apple ****e, unsupported. It's in the bin.

Was a much more expensive layout than microsoft ****e.

What are you trying to say?

shakes head


Using an unpatched operating system of any breed is pretty stupid, if
connected to the internet.

--
Adrian C

Huge wrote:

TBH, it sounds like you'd be better off going to Linux.

I've that as a long-term aim, but I have some windows apps that don't have
linux versions; they might work under WINE, I need to find out. Every so
often I've thought about putting various linuxes on an old laptop to play
with but I never get around to it; I'm thinking of using VMware or Virtual
Box on the new W8 machine to give myself a linux I can play with while I'm
using W8 too - I think I've more chance of learning to use it that way.

I also have some audio hardware which has Windows drivers, but no linux
support, which means I'm unlikely to completely abandon Windows.

--
Jeremy C B Nicoll - my opinions are my own.

Email sent to my from-address will be deleted. Instead, please reply
to replacing "aaa" by "284".

On 18/04/2014 10:17, stuart noble wrote:

For anyone who isn't interested in computers, the Chromebook *sounds*
like a no brainer.

I thought it needed an always on internet connection? Not to mention the
privacy concerns, as it stores everything on Google's servers.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

On 18/04/14 13:54, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Adrian C
wrote:

On 18/04/14 12:37, Tim Streater wrote:

Why do you need to ditch them? It worked the day before MS "scrapped"
XP, it'll work the day after.

If you all are unable to function without MS "support" you shouldn't
have bought into this ****e in the first place.

I know of lots of Apple ****e, unsupported. It's in the bin.

Was a much more expensive layout than microsoft ****e.

What are you trying to say?

shakes head

Using an unpatched operating system of any breed is pretty stupid, if
connected to the internet.

I'm saying that if it's unpatched now, then it was unpatched before.
And yet because it was "supported", everyone was happy.

Technically wrong, but don't let that get in the way of an agenda.

--
Adrian C

On Fri, 18 Apr 2014 12:02:57 +0100, Jeremy Nicoll - news posts wrote:

I've that as a long-term aim, but I have some windows apps that don't
have linux versions; they might work under WINE, I need to find out.
Every so often I've thought about putting various linuxes on an old
laptop to play with but I never get around to it; I'm thinking of using
VMware or Virtual Box on the new W8 machine to give myself a linux I can
play with while I'm using W8 too - I think I've more chance of learning
to use it that way.

I also have some audio hardware which has Windows drivers, but no linux
support, which means I'm unlikely to completely abandon Windows.


You might be surprised at what linux will handle now. Remember that linux
doesn't use drivers from manufacturers by default, it looks at the chipset
of the device and uses a generic driver for that. A lot of older hardware
already has support as part of the linux kernel now.

Linux has a lot of applications now. They aren't usually linux versions
of windows programs (some are), but they are often just as usable even if
they look different.

Dual booting windows and linux is no way to learn linux. You won't be
bothered to do it. If you aren't willing to install linux on a machine
that you are going to actually use then, at the very least, I would
recommend that you download a suitable "live CD" version of Mint and give
that a try. It won't mess up anything on your hard disk, just run rather
slowly because it has to load stuff from the CD/DVD rather than a HDD.

In message , Adrian C
writes
On 18/04/14 13:54, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Adrian C
wrote:

On 18/04/14 12:37, Tim Streater wrote:

Why do you need to ditch them? It worked the day before MS "scrapped"
XP, it'll work the day after.

If you all are unable to function without MS "support" you shouldn't
have bought into this ****e in the first place.

I know of lots of Apple ****e, unsupported. It's in the bin.

Was a much more expensive layout than microsoft ****e.

What are you trying to say?

shakes head

Using an unpatched operating system of any breed is pretty stupid, if
connected to the internet.

I'm saying that if it's unpatched now, then it was unpatched before.
And yet because it was "supported", everyone was happy.

Technically wrong, but don't let that get in the way of an agenda.

Technically right I would say. Software doesn't degrade like hardware.
--
bert

On 18/04/2014 08:52, Brian Gaff wrote:
Yes, Office 2003 is now over its support life, but both it and the earlier
Office XP are far easier to use than the ones from 2007 onward are. The

With the caveat that Office XP (aka 2002) and earlier don't run on Win 7
or later.

ribbon approach sounded like a a good idea until you actually had to use it.
Such is life and i suppose those who never knew the old menus and toolbars
have no problems, but I do and will probably go down the Open Office route
on any new machine.

Yup, MS claim its easier for newbies to get used to...

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 18/04/2014 13:07, John Williamson wrote:
On 18/04/2014 10:17, stuart noble wrote:

For anyone who isn't interested in computers, the Chromebook *sounds*
like a no brainer.

I thought it needed an always on internet connection? Not to mention the
privacy concerns, as it stores everything on Google's servers.


Yes, it needs the internet and, yes, Google might harvest your e-mails,
but the benefits of never having to tinker with the bloody thing must be
one hell of a bonus.

On 18/04/14 15:36, bert wrote:
In message , Adrian C
writes
On 18/04/14 13:54, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Adrian C
wrote:

On 18/04/14 12:37, Tim Streater wrote:

Why do you need to ditch them? It worked the day before MS "scrapped"
XP, it'll work the day after.

If you all are unable to function without MS "support" you shouldn't
have bought into this ****e in the first place.

I know of lots of Apple ****e, unsupported. It's in the bin.

Was a much more expensive layout than microsoft ****e.

What are you trying to say?

shakes head

Using an unpatched operating system of any breed is pretty stupid, if
connected to the internet.

I'm saying that if it's unpatched now, then it was unpatched before.
And yet because it was "supported", everyone was happy.

Technically wrong, but don't let that get in the way of an agenda.

Technically right I would say. Software doesn't degrade like hardware.

Some application software maybe but the OS does degrade.

Changes to the hardware environment, security exploits being found,
incompatibilities found, uncorrected faults, unexplained crashes,
trojans, viruses, users unable to install patches and updates, users
unable to pay for upgrades, and manufacturer decisions to withdraw
accessibility to other connected functions particularly those critically
provided by way of the internet.

Have Microsoft announced when they are going to turn off the activation
servers for XP?

--
Adrian C

On 18/04/14 16:42, stuart noble wrote:
On 18/04/2014 13:07, John Williamson wrote:
On 18/04/2014 10:17, stuart noble wrote:

For anyone who isn't interested in computers, the Chromebook *sounds*
like a no brainer.

I thought it needed an always on internet connection? Not to mention the
privacy concerns, as it stores everything on Google's servers.


Yes, it needs the internet and, yes, Google might harvest your e-mails,
but the benefits of never having to tinker with the bloody thing must be
one hell of a bonus.

Chromebooks don't always need a constant web connection for some
applications, and the benefits of a managed system provided for
essentially free might make it a worthwhile trade for knowledge of some
of your breeding and shopping habits.

Don't like Windows 8?

Chrome 32 Turns Windows 8 PCs into a Chromebook
http://windowsitpro.com/windows-8/ch...pcs-chromebook

The folks that worry incessantly about the big bad Google and data on
redundant hard drives probably 1) read the Daily Mail & 2) have a huge
hole in their computers security so large that already that the whole
world, never mind Google, knows everything anyway. They really should
pull the internet plug ...

Or get with the programme ...

--
Adrian C

On 18/04/2014 17:08, Adrian C wrote:
On 18/04/14 16:42, stuart noble wrote:
On 18/04/2014 13:07, John Williamson wrote:
On 18/04/2014 10:17, stuart noble wrote:

For anyone who isn't interested in computers, the Chromebook *sounds*
like a no brainer.

I thought it needed an always on internet connection? Not to mention the
privacy concerns, as it stores everything on Google's servers.


Yes, it needs the internet and, yes, Google might harvest your e-mails,
but the benefits of never having to tinker with the bloody thing must be
one hell of a bonus.

Chromebooks don't always need a constant web connection for some
applications, and the benefits of a managed system provided for
essentially free might make it a worthwhile trade for knowledge of some
of your breeding and shopping habits.

Don't like Windows 8?

Chrome 32 Turns Windows 8 PCs into a Chromebook
http://windowsitpro.com/windows-8/ch...pcs-chromebook


The folks that worry incessantly about the big bad Google and data on
redundant hard drives probably 1) read the Daily Mail & 2) have a huge
hole in their computers security so large that already that the whole
world, never mind Google, knows everything anyway. They really should
pull the internet plug ...

Or get with the programme ...

Most people don't give a toss about MSOffice. They upload out-of-focus
photos to Facebook and play Angry Birds. A Chromebook can do all that
for next to no money.

On 18/04/2014 10:24, Lobster wrote:
On 18 Apr 2014, "Brian Gaff" grunted:

I've got a copy, but after talking to others its still in its box.
Apparently the very latest incarnation now detects if you do not have
a touch screen and puts the windows 7 type interface up if this is the
case.

Well as the not-so-proud of two XP machines currently sitting redundant
while I work out my next step (yeah I know, bit late) that sounds
slightly better news I suppose. I'm just so seriously ****ed off that
M$ can get away with scrapping XP like this which is the only reason I
need to ditch two machines which are perfectly adequate for my (family)
needs (which cannot include Linux). But the part that's really sent me

In which case carry on using them... there are unlikely to be any show
stoppers - at least for a while. Avoid using IE on XP, and make sure you
have up to date AV software.

into orbit is that I have a kosher, paid-for copy of Office 2010 on one
of these PCs, but it has a one-time license only that means I can't even
move it to another machine. Unbelievable.

If you need to move it, reinstall and see if it reactivates. If it does
not and you end up going down the phone MS activation route, just tell
them that you have had to replace the motherboard under warranty for the
customer since the original one failed.

Me? Day to day work is still on xp, as it works,

Anyone know an easy way of disabling all internet access from an XP
machine, while retaining LAN capability? That might be one short-term fix
for me.

Using a static IP setup and not going it a default gateway is one way.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

mick wrote:

Dual booting windows and linux is no way to learn linux. You won't be
bothered to do it.

Indeed, which is why I've not done so yet - but running a linux in a virtual
machine while still having the Windows environment available might work for
me.

I've a chronic illness and spend a LOT of time in bed; I have room for one
laptop on an overbed table in front of me. I think I may be able to explore
a linux if it's available on that machine for playing with while there's
also normal Windows apps in other windows. I've used a RISC OS emulation
that way for long enough...

--
Jeremy C B Nicoll - my opinions are my own.

Email sent to my from-address will be deleted. Instead, please reply
to replacing "aaa" by "284".

On 18/04/14 15:36, bert wrote:
Technically wrong, but don't let that get in the way of an agenda.

Technically right I would say. Software doesn't degrade like hardware.

Yes. 'maintenance' is a weird term to use for 'correcting problems that
should never have been there to start with'

--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.

On 18/04/14 16:20, John Rumm wrote:
Yup, MS claim its easier for newbies to get used to...

They said that about nappies, too.


--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.

In message , Adrian C
writes
On 18/04/14 15:36, bert wrote:
In message , Adrian C
writes
On 18/04/14 13:54, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Adrian C
wrote:

On 18/04/14 12:37, Tim Streater wrote:

Why do you need to ditch them? It worked the day before MS "scrapped"
XP, it'll work the day after.

If you all are unable to function without MS "support" you shouldn't
have bought into this ****e in the first place.

I know of lots of Apple ****e, unsupported. It's in the bin.

Was a much more expensive layout than microsoft ****e.

What are you trying to say?

shakes head

Using an unpatched operating system of any breed is pretty stupid, if
connected to the internet.

I'm saying that if it's unpatched now, then it was unpatched before.
And yet because it was "supported", everyone was happy.

Technically wrong, but don't let that get in the way of an agenda.

Technically right I would say. Software doesn't degrade like hardware.

Some application software maybe but the OS does degrade.

Changes to the hardware environment, security exploits being found,
incompatibilities found, uncorrected faults, unexplained crashes,
trojans, viruses, users unable to install patches and updates, users
unable to pay for upgrades,
All those things are already there just maybe haven't been found yet.
Switching off support doesn't change anything within the OS.
and manufacturer decisions to withdraw accessibility to other connected
functions particularly those critically provided by way of the
internet.

Have Microsoft announced when they are going to turn off the activation
servers for XP?

No idea.
--
bert

On 18/04/14 23:04, bert wrote:

Changes to the hardware environment, security exploits being found,
incompatibilities found, uncorrected faults, unexplained crashes,
trojans, viruses, users unable to install patches and updates, users
unable to pay for upgrades,
All those things are already there just maybe haven't been found yet.

They have. It's called Windows Update.

Switching off support doesn't change anything within the OS.

No?

--
Adrian C

On 18 Apr 2014 09:51:31 GMT, Huge wrote:

TBH, it sounds like you'd be better off going to Linux.

IMO, LInux has just gone sideways over the last few years. It was
looking really promising at one point for non-nerd useability, but
just like the situation with Windows 8, oftentimes I find that an
updated version of a Linux distro is a retrograde step in at least one
significant respect. Half the problem is complexity. Operating systems
are so damn f*cking complicated.