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Default TOT - if the lied about the beef being horse meat.......

.....then how can we trust them when they say
"Of course, the horse meat is completely safe to eat."

The only way they could claim that is if the meat came from a supply
farmed for human consumption and rigorously quality checked (as I hope our
beef, lamb and pork is).

However if they lied once, how can they be trusted?

How do we know the horses weren't shot because they had an infectious
disease such as coughing, or expired just past the finishing post due to
over doping?

No doubt this story will run forever......

Cheers

Dave R
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On 08/02/2013 11:04, David.WE.Roberts wrote:
....then how can we trust them when they say
"Of course, the horse meat is completely safe to eat."

The only way they could claim that is if the meat came from a supply
farmed for human consumption and rigorously quality checked (as I hope our
beef, lamb and pork is).


AIUI the companies involved are in Europe, in areas where eating
horsemeat isn't unusual at all and presumably us Anglo-Saxons are
regarded as a bit odd for not using it. So whereas I expect Findus Horse
Lasagane is perfectly normal safe and OK in some places within the EU
(ie, prepared to the same rules and regs as any food shipped to the UK),
it obviously ain't in Blighty; and imagine it's a case of the wrong sort
of meat going down the wrong assemble line somewhere.

I don't know the husbandry behind horsemeat but eg in France it's on
sale openly in the butcher and supermarket, so presumably there are
appropriate food safety processes in place?

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Default TOT - if the lied about the beef being horse meat.......

On 08/02/2013 11:04, David.WE.Roberts wrote:
.....then how can we trust them when they say
"Of course, the horse meat is completely safe to eat."

The only way they could claim that is if the meat came from a supply
farmed for human consumption and rigorously quality checked (as I hope our
beef, lamb and pork is).

However if they lied once, how can they be trusted?

How do we know the horses weren't shot because they had an infectious
disease such as coughing, or expired just past the finishing post due to
over doping?

No doubt this story will run forever......

Cheers

Dave R

It has been suggested that they can trace every bit of beef back to the
bovine it came from. That was part of the whole BSE resolution.

Which bovine did this horsemeat come from? Are they feeding cows with
horses? silly comment - not to be taken as a serious, paranoid suggestion

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On 08/02/2013 11:32, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Fri, 08 Feb 2013 11:28:52 +0000, polygonum wrote:

It has been suggested that they can trace every bit of beef back to the
bovine it came from. That was part of the whole BSE resolution.


But they can't keep track of people entering the country.

But bovines (and equines, for that matter) are pretty bloody awful at
hiding in aircraft landing gear bays, clinging underneath lorries, etc.
Though some do swim a bit...

--
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Default TOT - if the lied about the beef being horse meat.......

On 08/02/2013 11:24, Lobster wrote:
On 08/02/2013 11:04, David.WE.Roberts wrote:
....then how can we trust them when they say
"Of course, the horse meat is completely safe to eat."

The only way they could claim that is if the meat came from a supply
farmed for human consumption and rigorously quality checked (as I hope
our
beef, lamb and pork is).


AIUI the companies involved are in Europe, in areas where eating
horsemeat isn't unusual at all and presumably us Anglo-Saxons are
regarded as a bit odd for not using it. So whereas I expect Findus Horse
Lasagane is perfectly normal safe and OK in some places within the EU
(ie, prepared to the same rules and regs as any food shipped to the UK),
it obviously ain't in Blighty; and imagine it's a case of the wrong sort
of meat going down the wrong assemble line somewhere.

I don't know the husbandry behind horsemeat but eg in France it's on
sale openly in the butcher and supermarket, so presumably there are
appropriate food safety processes in place?


One potential problem is that abattoirs in Mexico and Canada supply a
lot of horse meat to Europe and they take 100,000 horses each year from
the USA. In the USA, horses are routinely treated with the
anti-inflammatory phenylbutazone, which is hazardous to humans, even in
trace amounts. This and other banned substances have been found in horse
meat supplied from Mexico and the EU is introducing new regulations from
July this year, in an attempt to give better control over non-EU
slaughtered horse meat.

Colin Bignell



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Default TOT - if the lied about the beef being horse meat.......

In article ,
"David.WE.Roberts" writes:
....then how can we trust them when they say
"Of course, the horse meat is completely safe to eat."

The only way they could claim that is if the meat came from a supply
farmed for human consumption and rigorously quality checked (as I hope our
beef, lamb and pork is).

However if they lied once, how can they be trusted?


They are now saying this is likely deliberate criminal activity,
and it looks like they're expecting more, now that 3 source
EU countries are implicated.

Real horse meat for human consumption in countries which eat it
costs more than beef, so it's not a simple case of substituting
a cheaper ingredient, although in these cases it's going to be
the mechanically recovered meat that's used anyway, where this
may not apply. It may well be that the horse meat used wasn't
intended for human consumption, and that's being tested at the
moment.

How do we know the horses weren't shot because they had an infectious
disease such as coughing, or expired just past the finishing post due to
over doping?

No doubt this story will run forever......


If I bought 4 burgers for a quid, I'd be amazed to discover
they had as much as 29% of any identifiable meat in them.
That's why I've never bought 4 burgers for a quid.

--
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Default TOT - if the lied about the beef being horse meat.......

On Fri, 08 Feb 2013 11:24:15 +0000, Lobster wrote:

So whereas I expect Findus Horse Lasagane is perfectly normal safe and
OK in some places within the EU (ie, prepared to the same rules and
regs as any food shipped to the UK), it obviously ain't in Blighty; and
imagine it's a case of the wrong sort of meat going down the wrong
assemble line somewhere.


And have the wrong label applied? Beef Lasagne should be made from beef
not horse. If horse is a more expensive meat than beef it ain't going to
be your "prime cuts fit for human consumption" that has been used and
mislabeled either.

What I find rather disturbing is that no one in the whole long supply
chain, from abattoir to retail outlet, appears to have been routinely
testing that a batch of meat or product called "beef" really is 100%
beef.

Why was this only really picked up by random food testing by a small
countries government FSA?

I'm glad I stopped eating meat 20+ years ago...

--
Cheers
Dave.



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Default TOT - if the lied about the beef being horse meat.......



If I bought 4 burgers for a quid, I'd be amazed to discover
they had as much as 29% of any identifiable meat in them.
That's why I've never bought 4 burgers for a quid.


Are people really this stupid, in public?

There is a list of ingredients on the back. One expects that to be
accurate. If it doesn't say horse, then one has every right to expect
there to be no horse.

By your moronic lack of logic, you would find it reasonable to find
coal, or absolutely anything in 99p burgers. But that's fine because is
only poor people, right? Because you can afford more expensive burgers.
Typical British Im all right jack attitude. Yeah, **** every one else, aye?

Well, ****, Findus are supposed to be a bit more expensive. They are not
own label "****e", are they? So your own moronic nasty selfish bragging
argument is blown anyway.

Oh yeah, one class of people are this stupid in public. Smart arses.

--
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In article o.uk,
"Dave Liquorice" writes:
On Fri, 08 Feb 2013 11:24:15 +0000, Lobster wrote:

So whereas I expect Findus Horse Lasagane is perfectly normal safe and
OK in some places within the EU (ie, prepared to the same rules and
regs as any food shipped to the UK), it obviously ain't in Blighty; and
imagine it's a case of the wrong sort of meat going down the wrong
assemble line somewhere.


And have the wrong label applied? Beef Lasagne should be made from beef
not horse. If horse is a more expensive meat than beef it ain't going to
be your "prime cuts fit for human consumption" that has been used and
mislabeled either.

What I find rather disturbing is that no one in the whole long supply
chain, from abattoir to retail outlet, appears to have been routinely
testing that a batch of meat or product called "beef" really is 100%
beef.

Why was this only really picked up by random food testing by a small
countries government FSA?


I listened to the (UK) FSA spokesman squirming about how it was the
food industry's job to police itself and not the FSA, under questioning
from an interviewer.

It's very clear the FSA hasn't been doing what's expected of it.

I'm glad I stopped eating meat 20+ years ago...


I stopped eating beef when BSE started, and I now only eat it
very occasionally, and only when it's still in an identifiable
state (not minced up).

--
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[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]
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On 08/02/2013 11:04, David.WE.Roberts wrote:
.....then how can we trust them when they say
"Of course, the horse meat is completely safe to eat."

The only way they could claim that is if the meat came from a supply
farmed for human consumption and rigorously quality checked (as I hope our
beef, lamb and pork is).

However if they lied once, how can they be trusted?

How do we know the horses weren't shot because they had an infectious
disease such as coughing, or expired just past the finishing post due to
over doping?

No doubt this story will run forever......

Cheers

Dave R

Have to say, saddle of lamb is wonderful, so too saddle of beef or
venison. Not at all sure about saddle of ...

Don't the stirrups make carving difficult?

--
Rod


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On 08/02/13 12:46, Dave Liquorice wrote:

What I find rather disturbing is that no one in the whole long supply
chain, from abattoir to retail outlet, appears to have been routinely
testing that a batch of meat or product called "beef" really is 100%
beef.



How would you know?


DNA testing is scarcely the sort of thing that people engage in routinely.

Company X decides that in practice people can barely tell horse from
cow, stars mixing in horse, and the frozen mince goes off to McDonkeys
suppliers, who use the sort of it in lasagne as well.

They undercut everyone else's prices, so guess who else start to copy.

Soon, as with banks, 'everybody is doing it' throwing in the rats
squirrels, dogs, deer - anything that is or can reasonably be described
as 'edible meat' goes in one end. and death burgers come out the other.

And you thought Ankh Morpork was fictional.

--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.

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Default TOT - if the lied about the beef being horse meat.......

On Friday, February 8, 2013 12:46:45 PM UTC, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Fri, 08 Feb 2013 11:24:15 +0000, Lobster wrote:



So whereas I expect Findus Horse Lasagane is perfectly normal safe and


OK in some places within the EU (ie, prepared to the same rules and


regs as any food shipped to the UK), it obviously ain't in Blighty; and


imagine it's a case of the wrong sort of meat going down the wrong


assemble line somewhere.




And have the wrong label applied? Beef Lasagne should be made from beef

not horse. If horse is a more expensive meat than beef it ain't going to

be your "prime cuts fit for human consumption" that has been used and

mislabeled either.



What I find rather disturbing is that no one in the whole long supply

chain, from abattoir to retail outlet, appears to have been routinely

testing that a batch of meat or product called "beef" really is 100%

beef.



Why was this only really picked up by random food testing by a small

countries government FSA?



I'm glad I stopped eating meat 20+ years ago...



--

Cheers

Dave.


But how would they differentiate between beef and horse meat once it had been butchered ? DNA testing would hardly be feasible
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On 08/02/13 11:28, polygonum wrote:

Are they feeding cows with
horses?


As apt a description of the sort of people who can be seen buying frozen
lasagne in iceland as any I suppose.

Cows eating horses.

Lets hope they left the stray children out.



--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.

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Default TOT - if the lied about the beef being horse meat.......

Dave Liquorice wrote:

What I find rather disturbing is that no one in the whole long supply
chain, from abattoir to retail outlet, appears to have been routinely
testing that a batch of meat or product called "beef" really is 100%
beef.

Why was this only really picked up by random food testing by a small
countries government FSA?

I'm glad I stopped eating meat 20+ years ago...


Me too ;-)

I does make one wonder exactly what other foodstuffs are being
sold to us under false descriptions?

Reading accounts of the sort of adulteration that was common in
less enlightened times, used to feel like ancient history. Now I
am pondering how much we have actually moved forward.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK


Plant amazing Acers.
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On 08/02/13 13:11, AC wrote:


If I bought 4 burgers for a quid, I'd be amazed to discover
they had as much as 29% of any identifiable meat in them.
That's why I've never bought 4 burgers for a quid.


Are people really this stupid, in public?


Yes.

There is a list of ingredients on the back. One expects that to be
accurate. If it doesn't say horse, then one has every right to expect
there to be no horse.


One expects it to be pure marketing by and large.


By your moronic lack of logic, you would find it reasonable to find
coal, or absolutely anything in 99p burgers.


And indeed you will. Whatever they can get away with for some values oif
'they'

But that's fine because is
only poor people, right? Because you can afford more expensive burgers.


Its not fine. Its the real world. And the expensive burgers are
expensive because they do have the ingredients in them they claim to
have OK? and have all the bureaucracy surrounding them.


All your stupid 'social concern' will do is employ yet more jobsworths
in paper pushing and lead to there being no cheap burgers at all.


Typical British Im all right jack attitude. Yeah, **** every one else, aye?


And your measures will **** everyone.

Well, ****, Findus are supposed to be a bit more expensive. They are not
own label "****e", are they? So your own moronic nasty selfish bragging
argument is blown anyway.


We;ll there you go. Barclays bank were supposed to behave slightly
better than the third world bank of outer Mongolia. Chris Huhne was
supposed to behave better than a chav on an Essex council estate.

YOu wanted 'ordinary people' to run stuff, you said that toffs and
middle class people with 'standards' were nasty evil people with
privileges they didn't deserve.. Now you have chavs running everything
and you wonder why you cant trust anyone anymore.



Oh yeah, one class of people are this stupid in public. Smart arses.


Socialists. Who have forever confused being in charge with knowing how
to run things, who have confused the appearance of probity with genuine
conscience and self discipline, and have been stupid enough to elect
left wing governments for the last 50 years under the stupid impression
that they actually gave a **** about anyone but themselves and their
career paths.



--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.



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In article o.uk,
Dave Liquorice wrote:
I'm glad I stopped eating meat 20+ years ago...


Yehbut, can you be sure the vegetables you eat haven't been sprayed with
something nasty? Fish comes from incredibly polluted seas...

--
*Microsoft broke Volkswagen's record: They only made 21.4 million bugs.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
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In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Socialists. Who have forever confused being in charge with knowing how
to run things, who have confused the appearance of probity with genuine
conscience and self discipline, and have been stupid enough to elect
left wing governments for the last 50 years under the stupid impression
that they actually gave a **** about anyone but themselves and their
career paths.


Barclay's Bank is run by socialists? Chris Huhne is one? Do you even think
before you rant?

--
*A closed mouth gathers no feet.*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
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On Friday, February 8, 2013 1:11:56 PM UTC, AC wrote:


If I bought 4 burgers for a quid, I'd be amazed to discover


they had as much as 29% of any identifiable meat in them.


That's why I've never bought 4 burgers for a quid.






Are people really this stupid, in public?


Yes, People expect things to be labled corectly, something to do with the law.

4 burgers for a quid I'm sure I've seen packs of ten for less.


There is a list of ingredients on the back. One expects that to be

accurate. If it doesn't say horse, then one has every right to expect

there to be no horse.


excactly I wasn;t expecting to find Titanium dioxide to be in my xmas cake slices, but it was listed on the ingredients. I wasn;t expecting duck fat in my microwave chicken meal but it was listed.




By your moronic lack of logic, you would find it reasonable to find

coal, or absolutely anything in 99p burgers. But that's fine because is

only poor people, right? Because you can afford more expensive burgers.

Typical British Im all right jack attitude. Yeah, **** every one else, aye?


Yeah things might not change until someone important buys an expensive meal for a client only to find out they've fed them horsemeat rather than prome scottish beef at £100 or so.




Well, ****, Findus are supposed to be a bit more expensive. They are not

own label "****e", are they? So your own moronic nasty selfish bragging

argument is blown anyway.


Yes, I'd buy findus rather than meatycheapy burgers because I assume that if I pay more I'm getting a better product or atv least I('m getting what is says on the packet. If I want horse burgers fine but please sell them as horse burgers.



Oh yeah, one class of people are this stupid in public. Smart arses.



--

AC


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On 08/02/2013 11:04, David.WE.Roberts wrote:


.....then how can we trust them when they say
"Of course, the horse meat is completely safe to eat."


If they lied about the horse were did they source the beef/pork/chicken
they use in other products?


--
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On Friday, February 8, 2013 1:23:46 PM UTC, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 08/02/13 12:46, Dave Liquorice wrote:



What I find rather disturbing is that no one in the whole long supply


chain, from abattoir to retail outlet, appears to have been routinely


testing that a batch of meat or product called "beef" really is 100%


beef.






How would you know?


Usually the ideas is to have the ingedients listed.
The same goes for use by and sell by dates and price tickets/barcode.


DNA testing is scarcely the sort of thing that people engage in routinely.


That's why you should only buy from reputable companies, whether or not people think Findus is reputable may change.


Company X decides that in practice people can barely tell horse from

cow,


How does company X know this ?


stars mixing in horse, and the frozen mince goes off to McDonkeys

suppliers, who use the sort of it in lasagne as well.



They undercut everyone else's prices, so guess who else start to copy.



Soon, as with banks, 'everybody is doing it' throwing in the rats

squirrels, dogs, deer - anything that is or can reasonably be described

as 'edible meat' goes in one end. and death burgers come out the other.


What hapopens when they start using non-meat perhaps some for of plastic with flavouring.... a bit like quorn .




And you thought Ankh Morpork was fictional.


I was thinking more along the lines of soylent green but who would eat green meat !!! pass the food colouring dear :-)




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On Friday 08 February 2013 12:46 Dave Liquorice wrote in uk.d-i-y:

On Fri, 08 Feb 2013 11:24:15 +0000, Lobster wrote:

So whereas I expect Findus Horse Lasagane is perfectly normal safe and
OK in some places within the EU (ie, prepared to the same rules and
regs as any food shipped to the UK), it obviously ain't in Blighty; and
imagine it's a case of the wrong sort of meat going down the wrong
assemble line somewhere.


And have the wrong label applied? Beef Lasagne should be made from beef
not horse. If horse is a more expensive meat than beef it ain't going to
be your "prime cuts fit for human consumption" that has been used and
mislabeled either.



No. It'll be horse testicles and arseholes instead of cow testicles and
arseholes...


--
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If you are reading this from a web interface eg DIY Banter,
DIY Forum or Google Groups, please be aware this is NOT a forum, and
you are merely using a web portal to a USENET group. Many people block
posters coming from web portals due to perceived SPAM or inaneness.
For a better method of access, please see:

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On Friday 08 February 2013 13:23 The Natural Philosopher wrote in uk.d-i-y:

On 08/02/13 12:46, Dave Liquorice wrote:

What I find rather disturbing is that no one in the whole long supply
chain, from abattoir to retail outlet, appears to have been routinely
testing that a batch of meat or product called "beef" really is 100%
beef.



How would you know?


DNA testing is scarcely the sort of thing that people engage in
routinely.

Company X decides that in practice people can barely tell horse from
cow, stars mixing in horse, and the frozen mince goes off to McDonkeys
suppliers, who use the sort of it in lasagne as well.

They undercut everyone else's prices, so guess who else start to copy.

Soon, as with banks, 'everybody is doing it' throwing in the rats
squirrels, dogs, deer - anything that is or can reasonably be described
as 'edible meat' goes in one end. and death burgers come out the other.



Why stop there...

Soylent Green.

--
Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://www.dionic.net/tim/

If you are reading this from a web interface eg DIY Banter,
DIY Forum or Google Groups, please be aware this is NOT a forum, and
you are merely using a web portal to a USENET group. Many people block
posters coming from web portals due to perceived SPAM or inaneness.
For a better method of access, please see:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Usenet

"It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent
moral busybodies."

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On 08/02/2013 13:23, The Natural Philosopher wrote:


Soon, as with banks, 'everybody is doing it' throwing in the rats
squirrels, dogs, deer - anything that is or can reasonably be described
as 'edible meat' goes in one end. and death burgers come out the other.


Soylent Green?


--
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On 08/02/2013 12:15, Andrew Gabriel wrote:


If I bought 4 burgers for a quid, I'd be amazed to discover
they had as much as 29% of any identifiable meat in them.
That's why I've never bought 4 burgers for a quid.



You may pay 1 quid or 10 quid and still only find 25% of anything
identifiable in them.

--
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On 08/02/2013 14:44, whisky-dave wrote:
On Friday, February 8, 2013 1:23:46 PM UTC, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 08/02/13 12:46, Dave Liquorice wrote:



What I find rather disturbing is that no one in the whole long supply


chain, from abattoir to retail outlet, appears to have been routinely


testing that a batch of meat or product called "beef" really is 100%


beef.






How would you know?


Usually the ideas is to have the ingedients listed.
The same goes for use by and sell by dates and price tickets/barcode.


DNA testing is scarcely the sort of thing that people engage in routinely.


That's why you should only buy from reputable companies, whether or not people think Findus is reputable may change.

....

I suspect that may depend upon how Findus reacts and whether they had
taken reasonable steps to prevent this sort of thing happening.

One of the reasons given by Tesco for terminating their contract with
the supplier of their Value beefburgers was that they had deviated from
the list of Tesco approved suppliers. That suggests that Tesco imposed a
standard, even if they did not have procedures in place for checking
that their suppliers were keeping to it. I expect that will change soon.

Colin Bignell



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Default TOT - if the lied about the beef being horse meat.......

On Feb 8, 1:25*pm, fred wrote:
But how would they differentiate between beef and horse meat
once it had been butchered ? DNA testing would hardly be feasible


Whyever not? If they can sequence DNA from the 500-year-old bones of
Richard III, doing it from butchered (and indeed minced) meat - prior
to cooking that is - should be easy. DNA is after all a very stable
molecule, and it's in (virtually) every cell in the body.

Richard.
http://www.rtrussell.co.uk/
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On Fri, 08 Feb 2013 14:45:31 +0000, Tim Watts wrote:

On Friday 08 February 2013 12:46 Dave Liquorice wrote in uk.d-i-y:

On Fri, 08 Feb 2013 11:24:15 +0000, Lobster wrote:

So whereas I expect Findus Horse Lasagane is perfectly normal safe and
OK in some places within the EU (ie, prepared to the same rules and
regs as any food shipped to the UK), it obviously ain't in Blighty; and
imagine it's a case of the wrong sort of meat going down the wrong
assemble line somewhere.


And have the wrong label applied? Beef Lasagne should be made from beef
not horse. If horse is a more expensive meat than beef it ain't going to
be your "prime cuts fit for human consumption" that has been used and
mislabeled either.


No. It'll be horse testicles and arseholes instead of cow testicles and
arseholes...


That's due to yet more pollution - cows growing testicles. Load of... OK,
I'm going.
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway
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Default TOT - if the lied about the beef being horse meat.......

On 08/02/13 14:56, Nightjar wrote:


One of the reasons given by Tesco for terminating their contract with
the supplier of their Value beefburgers was that they had deviated from
the list of Tesco approved suppliers. That suggests that Tesco imposed a
standard, even if they did not have procedures in place for checking
that their suppliers were keeping to it. I expect that will change soon.



I am sure Tesco do have procedures, but they can't always be everywhere
all the time looking over every suppliers shoulder.

Some years ago I had an appointment with the MD at a company that
supplied pies, sausages, and ready-meals to various supermarkets. When I
arrived the meeting was rescheduled for another day: people from Tesco
had turned up to conduct a surprise inspection and that took priority
over everything else.


--
djc

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On Fri, 08 Feb 2013 11:28:52 +0000, polygonum wrote:

On 08/02/2013 11:04, David.WE.Roberts wrote:
.....then how can we trust them when they say
"Of course, the horse meat is completely safe to eat."

The only way they could claim that is if the meat came from a supply
farmed for human consumption and rigorously quality checked (as I hope our
beef, lamb and pork is).

However if they lied once, how can they be trusted?

How do we know the horses weren't shot because they had an infectious
disease such as coughing, or expired just past the finishing post due to
over doping?

No doubt this story will run forever......

Cheers

Dave R

It has been suggested that they can trace every bit of beef back to the
bovine it came from. That was part of the whole BSE resolution.

Which bovine did this horsemeat come from? Are they feeding cows with
horses? silly comment - not to be taken as a serious, paranoid suggestion


Not so silly - wasn't BSE something to do with feeding meat of some
processed sort to cattle?
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway
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On 08/02/13 14:06, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Socialists. Who have forever confused being in charge with knowing how
to run things, who have confused the appearance of probity with genuine
conscience and self discipline, and have been stupid enough to elect
left wing governments for the last 50 years under the stupid impression
that they actually gave a **** about anyone but themselves and their
career paths.


Barclay's Bank is run by socialists? Chris Huhne is one? Do you even think
before you rant?

yes and yes and yes.


--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.



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On 08/02/13 15:06, Richard Russell wrote:
On Feb 8, 1:25 pm, fred wrote:
But how would they differentiate between beef and horse meat
once it had been butchered ? DNA testing would hardly be feasible


Whyever not? If they can sequence DNA from the 500-year-old bones of
Richard III, doing it from butchered (and indeed minced) meat - prior
to cooking that is - should be easy. DNA is after all a very stable
molecule, and it's in (virtually) every cell in the body.

Richard.
http://www.rtrussell.co.uk/

how much does it cost though?



--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.

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On 08/02/13 15:12, PeterC wrote:
On Fri, 08 Feb 2013 11:28:52 +0000, polygonum wrote:

On 08/02/2013 11:04, David.WE.Roberts wrote:
.....then how can we trust them when they say
"Of course, the horse meat is completely safe to eat."

The only way they could claim that is if the meat came from a supply
farmed for human consumption and rigorously quality checked (as I hope our
beef, lamb and pork is).

However if they lied once, how can they be trusted?

How do we know the horses weren't shot because they had an infectious
disease such as coughing, or expired just past the finishing post due to
over doping?

No doubt this story will run forever......

Cheers

Dave R

It has been suggested that they can trace every bit of beef back to the
bovine it came from. That was part of the whole BSE resolution.

Which bovine did this horsemeat come from? Are they feeding cows with
horses? silly comment - not to be taken as a serious, paranoid suggestion


Not so silly - wasn't BSE something to do with feeding meat of some
processed sort to cattle?

sheep


--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.

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On Friday, February 8, 2013 3:12:43 PM UTC, PeterC wrote:
On Fri, 08 Feb 2013 11:28:52 +0000, polygonum wrote:



On 08/02/2013 11:04, David.WE.Roberts wrote:


.....then how can we trust them when they say


"Of course, the horse meat is completely safe to eat."




The only way they could claim that is if the meat came from a supply


farmed for human consumption and rigorously quality checked (as I hope our


beef, lamb and pork is).




However if they lied once, how can they be trusted?




How do we know the horses weren't shot because they had an infectious


disease such as coughing, or expired just past the finishing post due to


over doping?




No doubt this story will run forever......




Cheers




Dave R




It has been suggested that they can trace every bit of beef back to the


bovine it came from. That was part of the whole BSE resolution.




Which bovine did this horsemeat come from? Are they feeding cows with


horses? silly comment - not to be taken as a serious, paranoid suggestion




Not so silly - wasn't BSE something to do with feeding meat of some

processed sort to cattle?


Feeding cows sheep carcusses IIRC someone I know who filmed it many years ago was taken into police station and charged with soemthing and the film destroyed, about 5 years before BSE came to light.

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In article ,
Tim Streater wrote:
And who gave us the Staffordshire Hospital scenario. The complaint is
voiced that no one has been punished. Well, I'd say, let's start with a
certain T Blair and his lackeys who gave us the tickbox culture in the
first place.


The left has been giving us this "The NHS is sacred and thou shalt not
criticise our brave Nurses and Doctors on the Front Line" guff for years
now. Well, it's coming home to roost now. And I thought having the NHS
in the Olympic ceremony was laughable.


The chap who was in charge of that NHS area is now in charge of the entire
NHS. Haven't noticed this government calling for his resignation.

--
*Re-elect nobody

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
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On 08/02/2013 14:56, Nightjar wrote:


I suspect that may depend upon how Findus reacts and whether they had
taken reasonable steps to prevent this sort of thing happening.


My take is that Findus mis-handled it when they decided NOT to issue a
recall on Friday/Saturday (or even Wednesday) for logistical reasons.

So it's all right to not issue a recall because it was inconvenient?
They can't do one other than Monday to Friday office hours?

I agree that demonstration of having taken reasonable steps might help
to ameliorate the damage, but they have not started out right.

--
Rod


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Lobster wrote:
I don't know the husbandry behind horsemeat but eg in France it's on
sale openly in the butcher and supermarket, so presumably there are
appropriate food safety processes in place?

Not only is it on sale in Belgium and France, in both places it's a
premium product and sells for more than beef, in much the same way as
venison does here, and for the same reason. It's low fat and has a
stronger taste.

Perosnally, I'm not too worried about there being horsemeat in the
burgers, but if it's not on the label, what else is in there?

If there's unlabelled non-kosher or non-halal meat in an otherwise
kosher or halal meat product, then a *lot* of people are going to be
really annoyed about that.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.
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On Fri, 08 Feb 2013 13:23:19 +0000, polygonum
wrote:

On 08/02/2013 11:04, David.WE.Roberts wrote:
.....then how can we trust them when they say
"Of course, the horse meat is completely safe to eat."

The only way they could claim that is if the meat came from a supply
farmed for human consumption and rigorously quality checked (as I hope our
beef, lamb and pork is).

However if they lied once, how can they be trusted?

How do we know the horses weren't shot because they had an infectious
disease such as coughing, or expired just past the finishing post due to
over doping?

No doubt this story will run forever......

Cheers

Dave R

Have to say, saddle of lamb is wonderful, so too saddle of beef or
venison. Not at all sure about saddle of ...

Don't the stirrups make carving difficult?


Flogging a dead horse there...

--
Frank Erskine
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On Friday, February 8, 2013 3:44:02 PM UTC, Frank Erskine wrote:
On Fri, 08 Feb 2013 13:23:19 +0000, polygonum

wrote:



On 08/02/2013 11:04, David.WE.Roberts wrote:


.....then how can we trust them when they say


"Of course, the horse meat is completely safe to eat."




The only way they could claim that is if the meat came from a supply


farmed for human consumption and rigorously quality checked (as I hope our


beef, lamb and pork is).




However if they lied once, how can they be trusted?




How do we know the horses weren't shot because they had an infectious


disease such as coughing, or expired just past the finishing post due to


over doping?




No doubt this story will run forever......




Cheers




Dave R




Have to say, saddle of lamb is wonderful, so too saddle of beef or


venison. Not at all sure about saddle of ...




Don't the stirrups make carving difficult?




Flogging a dead horse there...


flogging it as beef is the problem....

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On 08/02/2013 12:15, Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,

If I bought 4 burgers for a quid, I'd be amazed to discover
they had as much as 29% of any identifiable meat in them.
That's why I've never bought 4 burgers for a quid.


Indeed. My local village butcher tells me 4 of his quarter pound burgers
contain 2 poundsworth of ingredients at cost price.

Another Dave


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Default TOT - if the lied about the beef being horse meat.......

On 08/02/2013 11:04, David.WE.Roberts wrote:
....then how can we trust them when they say
"Of course, the horse meat is completely safe to eat."

The only way they could claim that is if the meat came from a supply
farmed for human consumption and rigorously quality checked (as I hope our
beef, lamb and pork is).

However if they lied once, how can they be trusted?

How do we know the horses weren't shot because they had an infectious
disease such as coughing, or expired just past the finishing post due to
over doping?

No doubt this story will run forever......

Cheers

Dave R


I was surprised that HMRC are basically complicit:

http://tinyurl.com/bxyzq5e states that butchered horse is zero-rated for
VAT:

3.1 Basic foodstuffs

You can zero-rate all supplies of unprocessed foodstuffs such as:

raw meat and fish;
vegetables and fruit;
cereals, nuts and pulses; and
culinary herbs,

whether you supply them direct to the public or for use as ingredients
in the manufacture of processed foods, provided they are fit for human
consumption.

Live horses - standard rate of VAT - Not a recognised food species, see
Notice 701/15 Animals and animal food.
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