[ARW]

Anyone know where they get the info from?

It seems some of the roads in my village are now covered when I look at the
maps.

And it seems not to be good info that they are giving.

--
Adam

[Harry Bloomfield[_3_]]

ARW wrote on 03/09/2012 :
Anyone know where they get the info from?

It seems some of the roads in my village are now covered when I look at the
maps.

And it seems not to be good info that they are giving.

RDS ?

--
Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

[ARW]

Harry Bloomfield wrote:
ARW wrote on 03/09/2012 :
Anyone know where they get the info from?

It seems some of the roads in my village are now covered when I
look at the maps.

And it seems not to be good info that they are giving.

RDS ?

They ask the uk.d-i-y's optometrist?

--
Adam

[ARW]

Huge wrote:
On 2012-09-03, ARW wrote:
Anyone know where they get the info from?

Android phones. They report their position to Google, who anonymise
and aggregate the data and use it to measure traffic flows. If the
same size is small, which it will be for a road with few users, the
reported speeds will not be very accurate.

So that is why some roads in the village are showing traffic details on some
days why they are not showing on other days? No phone users on the road.

And they must know the direction of the vehicle as they can split the road
speed into two directions.

I must get an Android phone. I passed a sign on the M1 yesterday that said
"M18 junction 13 minutes"
I passed the M18 junction 9 minutes later. It would be nice to mess the
figures up.



--
Adam

[Mr Pounder[_2_]]

"ARW" wrote in message
...
Anyone know where they get the info from?

It seems some of the roads in my village are now covered when I look at
the maps.

And it seems not to be good info that they are giving.

--
Adam

A better question would be *why* is Google doing this?
Hmmmm?

[Andy Burns[_7_]]

ARW wrote:

Huge wrote:

On 2012-09-03, ARW wrote:

Anyone know where they get the info from?

Android phones. They report their position to Google, who anonymise
and aggregate the data and use it to measure traffic flows.

So that is why some roads in the village are showing traffic details on some
days why they are not showing on other days? No phone users on the road.

Bear in mind that unless the phone user has the phone in satnav mode,
the GPS is likely to be switched off, so the phone will be relying on
phone masts and glimpses of WiFi from access points it passes for
(relatively imprecise) location information, let alone determining speed
as a function of time between these imprecise locations.

[www.GymRatZ.co.uk[_2_]]

On 03/09/2012 20:05, Mr Pounder wrote:

A better question would be *why* is Google doing this?
Hmmmm?

So they can sell the information to various agencies etc?

Pete
--
http://www.GymRatZ.co.uk - Gym Equipment.

[Stuart Noble]

On 03/09/2012 20:05, Mr Pounder wrote:
"ARW" wrote in message
...
Anyone know where they get the info from?

It seems some of the roads in my village are now covered when I look at
the maps.

And it seems not to be good info that they are giving.

--
Adam

A better question would be *why* is Google doing this?
Hmmmm?





The blog sounds convincing

[The Other Mike[_3_]]

On Mon, 3 Sep 2012 19:55:34 +0100, "ARW" wrote:

I passed a sign on the M1 yesterday that said
"M18 junction 13 minutes"
I passed the M18 junction 9 minutes later. It would be nice to mess the
figures up.

The ones on motorways rely on character recognition of a number plate, they use
a few of the characters and try and match them up further down the road.
60mph or therabouts seems to be the average iwith no congestion. I suspect the
presence of HGV's has a big influence on the figures reported.


--

[R D S[_2_]]

On Mon, 03 Sep 2012 19:31:16 +0100, ARW wrote:

Harry Bloomfield wrote:
ARW wrote on 03/09/2012 :
Anyone know where they get the info from?

It seems some of the roads in my village are now covered when I look
at the maps.

And it seems not to be good info that they are giving.

RDS ?

They ask the uk.d-i-y's optometrist?

It's nowt to do with me guv.

Plus i'm a lowly dispensing optician.

[ARW]

R D S wrote:
On Mon, 03 Sep 2012 19:31:16 +0100, ARW wrote:

Harry Bloomfield wrote:
ARW wrote on 03/09/2012 :
Anyone know where they get the info from?

It seems some of the roads in my village are now covered when I
look at the maps.

And it seems not to be good info that they are giving.

RDS ?

They ask the uk.d-i-y's optometrist?

It's nowt to do with me guv.

Plus i'm a lowly dispensing optician.

I cannot see the difference between the two.

--
Adam

[R D S[_2_]]

On Mon, 03 Sep 2012 22:00:45 +0100, ARW wrote:

R D S wrote:
On Mon, 03 Sep 2012 19:31:16 +0100, ARW wrote:

Harry Bloomfield wrote:
ARW wrote on 03/09/2012 :
Anyone know where they get the info from?

It seems some of the roads in my village are now covered when I
look at the maps.

And it seems not to be good info that they are giving.

RDS ?

They ask the uk.d-i-y's optometrist?

It's nowt to do with me guv.

Plus i'm a lowly dispensing optician.

I cannot see the difference between the two.

They examine eyes, we make/dispense specs. The main difference is in the
paypacket.

[John Williamson]

The Other Mike wrote:
On Mon, 3 Sep 2012 19:55:34 +0100, "ARW" wrote:

I passed a sign on the M1 yesterday that said
"M18 junction 13 minutes"
I passed the M18 junction 9 minutes later. It would be nice to mess the
figures up.

The ones on motorways rely on character recognition of a number plate, they use
a few of the characters and try and match them up further down the road.
60mph or therabouts seems to be the average iwith no congestion. I suspect the
presence of HGV's has a big influence on the figures reported.


So the speed sensing loops every kilometre or less on most motorways
have nothing to do with it, then?

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

[ARW]

Andy Burns wrote:
ARW wrote:

Huge wrote:

On 2012-09-03, ARW wrote:

Anyone know where they get the info from?

Android phones. They report their position to Google, who
anonymise and aggregate the data and use it to measure traffic
flows.

So that is why some roads in the village are showing traffic
details on some days why they are not showing on other days? No
phone users on the road.

Bear in mind that unless the phone user has the phone in satnav mode,
the GPS is likely to be switched off, so the phone will be relying on
phone masts and glimpses of WiFi from access points it passes for
(relatively imprecise) location information, let alone determining
speed as a function of time between these imprecise locations.


The odd thing is I always look at Google Maps or listen to the local radio
before I leave for work.

I have to be at work for 7:45 but I like to get there for around 7:15. On
Sunday morning a road in the village was closed for 5 weeks worth of
roadworks. This morning was the first time I have seen this road show any
details on Google traffic/maps.

When I got in from work tonight the village was quite a highlight with
Google traffic.

Do drunks walking home from The Talbot Inn carrying an Android phone add to
Googles traffic info?

--
Adam

[The Other Mike[_3_]]

On Mon, 03 Sep 2012 22:08:15 +0100, John Williamson
wrote:

The Other Mike wrote:
On Mon, 3 Sep 2012 19:55:34 +0100, "ARW" wrote:

I passed a sign on the M1 yesterday that said
"M18 junction 13 minutes"
I passed the M18 junction 9 minutes later. It would be nice to mess the
figures up.

The ones on motorways rely on character recognition of a number plate, they use
a few of the characters and try and match them up further down the road.
60mph or therabouts seems to be the average iwith no congestion. I suspect the
presence of HGV's has a big influence on the figures reported.


So the speed sensing loops every kilometre or less on most motorways
have nothing to do with it, then?

Not from what I am led to believe.

--

[ARW]

The Other Mike wrote:
On Mon, 03 Sep 2012 22:08:15 +0100, John Williamson
wrote:

The Other Mike wrote:
On Mon, 3 Sep 2012 19:55:34 +0100, "ARW"
wrote:

I passed a sign on the M1 yesterday that said
"M18 junction 13 minutes"
I passed the M18 junction 9 minutes later. It would be nice to
mess the figures up.

The ones on motorways rely on character recognition of a number
plate, they use a few of the characters and try and match them up
further down the road. 60mph or therabouts seems to be the
average iwith no congestion. I suspect the presence of HGV's
has a big influence on the figures reported.


So the speed sensing loops every kilometre or less on most motorways
have nothing to do with it, then?

Not from what I am led to believe.



It is car number plate recognition that supplies the info for Trafficmaster
on A roads.

Dunno about the Motorways.

--
Adam

[fred]

In article , ARW
writes
The Other Mike wrote:
On Mon, 03 Sep 2012 22:08:15 +0100, John Williamson
wrote:

The Other Mike wrote:
On Mon, 3 Sep 2012 19:55:34 +0100, "ARW"
wrote:

I passed a sign on the M1 yesterday that said
"M18 junction 13 minutes"
I passed the M18 junction 9 minutes later. It would be nice to
mess the figures up.

The ones on motorways rely on character recognition of a number
plate, they use a few of the characters and try and match them up
further down the road. 60mph or therabouts seems to be the
average iwith no congestion. I suspect the presence of HGV's
has a big influence on the figures reported.


So the speed sensing loops every kilometre or less on most motorways
have nothing to do with it, then?

Not from what I am led to believe.



It is car number plate recognition that supplies the info for Trafficmaster
on A roads.

Dunno about the Motorways.

Certainly used to be, one cam per lane hung on light booms from bridges
crossing the m'way.
--
fred
it's a ba-na-na . . . .

[Chris J Dixon]

ARW wrote:

I must get an Android phone. I passed a sign on the M1 yesterday that said
"M18 junction 13 minutes"
I passed the M18 junction 9 minutes later. It would be nice to mess the
figures up.

The calculation is capped at legal speeds ;-)

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK


Have dancing shoes, will ceilidh.

[Chris J Dixon]

The Other Mike wrote:

On Mon, 03 Sep 2012 22:08:15 +0100, John Williamson
wrote:

The Other Mike wrote:
On Mon, 3 Sep 2012 19:55:34 +0100, "ARW" wrote:

I passed a sign on the M1 yesterday that said
"M18 junction 13 minutes"
I passed the M18 junction 9 minutes later. It would be nice to mess the
figures up.

The ones on motorways rely on character recognition of a number plate, they use
a few of the characters and try and match them up further down the road.
60mph or therabouts seems to be the average iwith no congestion. I suspect the
presence of HGV's has a big influence on the figures reported.

So the speed sensing loops every kilometre or less on most motorways
have nothing to do with it, then?

Not from what I am led to believe.

I had an interesting visit to the National Control Centre where
the system was explained to us. They combine motorway and
Trafficmaster camera data, and speed loops.

They then perform a calculation including historical data for the
section of road, anything known about impending delays (such as
special events), current measured flows and speed limits.

They were also emphatic that the sophistication of their
algorithm gives the predicted time for a car entering the
section, not simply the time taken by one that has just left.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK


Have dancing shoes, will ceilidh.

[tony sayer]

In article , Huge
scribeth thus
On 2012-09-03, Andy Burns wrote:
ARW wrote:

Huge wrote:

On 2012-09-03, ARW wrote:

Anyone know where they get the info from?

Android phones. They report their position to Google, who anonymise
and aggregate the data and use it to measure traffic flows.

So that is why some roads in the village are showing traffic details on some
days why they are not showing on other days? No phone users on the road.

Bear in mind that unless the phone user has the phone in satnav mode,
the GPS is likely to be switched off, so the phone will be relying on
phone masts and glimpses of WiFi from access points it passes for
(relatively imprecise) location information, let alone determining speed
as a function of time between these imprecise locations.

Depending on cell size, the phone knows where it is at anything up to
centimeter resolution using information held by the cell itself.

Up to a centimetre resolution?. Your taking there of enhanced
differential GPS, not just the triangulation timing info a cell phone
may have....

But
that information is held by the mobile operators, who do not release it
to anyone. Yet.


--
Tony Sayer

[harry]

On Sep 3, 8:05*pm, "Mr Pounder" wrote:
"ARW" wrote in message

...

Anyone know where they get the info from?

It seems some of the roads in my village are now covered when I look at
the maps.

And it seems not to be good info that they are giving.

--
Adam

A better question would be *why* is Google doing this?
Hmmmm?



- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


They are part of the CIA, snooping on everyone.

[Pet @ www.gymratz.co.uk ¬)[_2_]]

On 04/09/2012 09:16, harry wrote:

They are part of the CIA, snooping on everyone.

Yes, that and picasa "face tagging"
The way picasa scans pictures (if you are foolish enough to let it) and
groups them into an auto match of the same person even from obscure
angles and at all ages... I shouldn't wonder if they identify a whole
lot more like body size/weight/height etc... that's a hell of a global
database that misguided folks gladly opt-in to, but worse than that, you
can't opt-out because one unknowing person/friend or family member can
and will happily submit and identify pictures of you and many others
without your knowledge or agreement. Who knows, is Skype voice profiling
the 600,000,000 and rising users ?

If you're connected you are already entangled into the very structure of
the internet...
8¬O

Pete
--
http://www.gymratz.co.uk/wholesale-fat-burners/
Wholesale Supplements and Nutrition for all!

[Stuart Noble]

On 04/09/2012 09:56, "Pet @ www.gymratz.co.uk ;¬)" wrote:
On 04/09/2012 09:16, harry wrote:

They are part of the CIA, snooping on everyone.

Yes, that and picasa "face tagging"
The way picasa scans pictures (if you are foolish enough to let it) and
groups them into an auto match of the same person even from obscure
angles and at all ages... I shouldn't wonder if they identify a whole
lot more like body size/weight/height etc... that's a hell of a global
database that misguided folks gladly opt-in to, but worse than that, you
can't opt-out because one unknowing person/friend or family member can
and will happily submit and identify pictures of you and many others
without your knowledge or agreement. Who knows, is Skype voice profiling
the 600,000,000 and rising users ?

If you're connected you are already entangled into the very structure of
the internet...
8¬O

Pete
--
http://www.gymratz.co.uk/wholesale-fat-burners/
Wholesale Supplements and Nutrition for all!






Sometimes paranoia's just having all the facts.
William S. Burroughs

[Dave Liquorice[_2_]]

On Tue, 04 Sep 2012 09:56:27 +0100, Pet @ www.gymratz.co.uk ;ª) wrote:

Yes, that and picasa "face tagging"

Not just picasa, Facebook as well.

There have been several cases where the "anonymised" data has been
analysed to produce links between individuals based on the time/date/geo
tags of images they have uploaded.

There have also been cases where the "anoymised" data isn't quite as
anonymous as it might first appear.

--
Cheers
Dave.

[tim.....]

"www.GymRatZ.co.uk" wrote in message
...
On 03/09/2012 20:05, Mr Pounder wrote:

A better question would be *why* is Google doing this?
Hmmmm?

So they can sell the information to various agencies etc?

There's already a company successfully doing this.

It seems unlikely that anything Google could do would be better

tim

[tony sayer]

In article , Huge
scribeth thus
On 2012-09-04, tony sayer wrote:
In article , Huge
scribeth thus
On 2012-09-03, Andy Burns wrote:
ARW wrote:

Huge wrote:

On 2012-09-03, ARW wrote:

Anyone know where they get the info from?

Android phones. They report their position to Google, who anonymise
and aggregate the data and use it to measure traffic flows.

So that is why some roads in the village are showing traffic details on
some
days why they are not showing on other days? No phone users on the road.

Bear in mind that unless the phone user has the phone in satnav mode,
the GPS is likely to be switched off, so the phone will be relying on
phone masts and glimpses of WiFi from access points it passes for
(relatively imprecise) location information, let alone determining speed
as a function of time between these imprecise locations.

Depending on cell size, the phone knows where it is at anything up to
centimeter resolution using information held by the cell itself.

Up to a centimetre resolution?. Your taking there of enhanced
differential GPS, not just the triangulation timing info a cell phone
may have....

OK, 50 centimetres. And only in places where there are enough femtocells;
Oxford Street is the canonical example. But I have seen it demonstrated by
a cellphone operator; you can tell whether people are inside a shop or
standing on the pavement outside.

Under ideal conditions possibly but seeing the amount of multipath
reflections in urban environments I doubt that accuracy is more than a
few instances..

Out in the sticks yes Voda manage to do a few hundred metres and to do
this thing properly you need three base stations in range which
sometimes is a tad difficult;!.


This company offer these services..


http://www.followus.co.uk/..



Obviously, in the countryside or anywhere else the cells are large, the
resolution falls dramatically - hundreds of metres (although this is a
guess.)


About right sometimes more distant;!..
--
Tony Sayer

[John Rumm]

On 03/09/2012 22:00, ARW wrote:
R D S wrote:
On Mon, 03 Sep 2012 19:31:16 +0100, ARW wrote:

Harry Bloomfield wrote:
ARW wrote on 03/09/2012 :
Anyone know where they get the info from?

It seems some of the roads in my village are now covered when I
look at the maps.

And it seems not to be good info that they are giving.

RDS ?

They ask the uk.d-i-y's optometrist?

It's nowt to do with me guv.

Plus i'm a lowly dispensing optician.

I cannot see the difference between the two.

In which case you need to former followed by the latter ;-)


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

[Dave Liquorice[_2_]]

On Mon, 10 Sep 2012 19:43:27 +0100, ARW wrote:

Cant beat Sally Traffic on R2...

For long distance journeys she is good company:-)

For the few minutes she is on but the rest of the time you have to put up
with R2. No TA on the nationals.

But I also stick the TA on for more local details.

I don't normally bother, except if it's "drive time". The quality of the
information varies greatly, not only from station to station but by time
of day. I've been stuck on the A1 for 4+ hours late evening and has there
been a TA? Nope. This was before the evening syndication or taking of one
of the nationals as a sustaining service... And even during drive time
some stations only report on the places that always clag up and nowhere
else. Then of course they assume everyone knows where the junction of
Broad St and Evan Place is that is closed due to an incident, they
sometimes don't even say which town...

The highways info boards on motorways aren't bad, they do tell you well
in advance but they assume that every one knows their junction numbers.
"M6 CLOSED AFTER J27" WTF is J27? I know where I'm going, don't know the
junction number I'm coming off at but it's in the highish 20's... Why
can't they just say "M6 CLOSED AFTER J27 A5209 WIGAN"?

I also have traffic master on the sat nav (that is usually pretty good,
sometimes to within 10m of the hold up)

Real Traffic Master or the RDS delivered service? (Mind you I'm not sure
where the RDS service gets it's information from, might be TM). Does TM
they still have the YQ? That was excellent, accurate up to date
information over the major routes of the entire country. Able to see the
clag ups well in advance and make routing decisions 100+ miles in
advance, M1 clogged N of Nottingham, stay on the the A1. Not in a hurry,
M25 still a car park? Stay at home have another cup of coffee.

--
Cheers
Dave.

[Chris J Dixon]

Dave Liquorice wrote:

On Mon, 10 Sep 2012 19:43:27 +0100, ARW wrote:

Cant beat Sally Traffic on R2...

For long distance journeys she is good company:-)

For the few minutes she is on but the rest of the time you have to put up
with R2. No TA on the nationals.

I have often wondered why that is the case.

But I also stick the TA on for more local details.

I don't normally bother, except if it's "drive time". The quality of the
information varies greatly, not only from station to station but by time
of day.... And even during drive time
some stations only report on the places that always clag up and nowhere
else. Then of course they assume everyone knows where the junction of
Broad St and Evan Place is that is closed due to an incident, they
sometimes don't even say which town...

Roundabouts seem to be the worst - you don't even get a road name
which you might be able to search for.

Round here you get Spider Island, Blue Peter Island, Crusader
Island...

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK


Have dancing shoes, will ceilidh.