Hi. Our old Rayburn multifuel cooker/boiler just died, and I need to
replace it with something else. The rayburn used to run a central
heating system of 13 radiators with a total area of approx 12 square
yds; 9.6 square metres.

Can anyone tell me what Btu output figure the replacement stove should
have to run the existing radiators comfortably? Or where on the web I
could find the formula to work it out for myself?!

Many thanks.

"bodger" wrote in message
om...
Hi. Our old Rayburn multifuel cooker/boiler just died, and I need to
replace it with something else. The rayburn used to run a central
heating system of 13 radiators with a total area of approx 12 square
yds; 9.6 square metres.

Can anyone tell me what Btu output figure the replacement stove should
have to run the existing radiators comfortably? Or where on the web I
could find the formula to work it out for myself?!

Many thanks.

In the 1970's, when radiators didn't have fins - like they do today - a
rough figure was 180 BThU/Hr per square foot of surface area.

I'm not sure whether your 12 sq yds is just one side of each rad, or both
sides. If it is just one side, you need to double it to get surface area -
and the above formula then gives a heat output of just under 40,000 BThU/Hr.
If any of the radiators are doubled, or finned, they will have a higher
output and you will need to take this into account when sizing a replacement
boiler. Does your boiler also need to provide domestic hot water? If so, add
a further 15,000-20,000 BThU/Hr.

Roger

On 9 Nov 2003 11:06:34 -0800, (bodger) wrote:

Hi. Our old Rayburn multifuel cooker/boiler just died, and I need to
replace it with something else. The rayburn used to run a central
heating system of 13 radiators with a total area of approx 12 square
yds; 9.6 square metres.

Can anyone tell me what Btu output figure the replacement stove should
have to run the existing radiators comfortably? Or where on the web I
could find the formula to work it out for myself?!

Many thanks.


The first thing is to dump the idea of Btus. They are a deprecated
unit and make calculation harder. Working in metric units and watts
is very much easier.

Take a look at the web sites of the radiator manufacturers such as
Myson, Stelrad and Barlo and find radiators of similar type and size
to those that you have. Take care to look at whether they are double
or single panel and with or without fins. This makes a big
difference to output. Once you have the sizes and types, look up
the output in Watts from the data sheet. For a standard convention
al boiler operating with 82 degree flow temperature, multiply the
figure in the table by 0.9 because the output and heat requirement
will be lower than the test temperature.

Add these and add about 20% for margin. If you are replacing with
another Rayburn, then you can find the specifications on Aga Rayburn's
web site. If you are considering a wall or floor mount boiler then
a condensing model is a good plan because of increased efficiency.
Many of these types as well as conventional boilers modulate the
burner and so will match output to the requirement, so getting the
sizin g perfect becomes less of an issue anyway



..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

Roger Mills wrote:

"bodger" wrote in message
om...

Hi. Our old Rayburn multifuel cooker/boiler just died, and I need to
replace it with something else. The rayburn used to run a central
heating system of 13 radiators with a total area of approx 12 square
yds; 9.6 square metres.

Can anyone tell me what Btu output figure the replacement stove should
have to run the existing radiators comfortably? Or where on the web I
could find the formula to work it out for myself?!

Many thanks.


In the 1970's, when radiators didn't have fins - like they do today - a
rough figure was 180 BThU/Hr per square foot of surface area.

I'm not sure whether your 12 sq yds is just one side of each rad, or both
sides. If it is just one side, you need to double it to get surface area -
and the above formula then gives a heat output of just under 40,000 BThU/Hr.
If any of the radiators are doubled, or finned, they will have a higher
output and you will need to take this into account when sizing a replacement
boiler. Does your boiler also need to provide domestic hot water? If so, add
a further 15,000-20,000 BThU/Hr.



NOTE: This does not compute if you have a hot water tank. You need very
little to heat a tank - maybe 500-600W. You DO need a lot of its a
comnbi system trho, since it has to het the water onthe fly,..but most
of these seem to chop the heating whilst the bath is running anyway...


Roger

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
Roger Mills wrote:

Does your boiler also need to provide domestic hot water? If so, add
a further 15,000-20,000 BThU/Hr.



NOTE: This does not compute if you have a hot water tank. You need very
little to heat a tank - maybe 500-600W. You DO need a lot of its a
comnbi system trho, since it has to het the water onthe fly,..but most
of these seem to chop the heating whilst the bath is running anyway...







I'm sure that 15,000 BThU/Hr (about 4.4 KW) had used to be the
recommendation for DHW. This would heat a 30 gallon tank from cold to 140
deg F (60 deg C) in about 2 hours. Your 500-600 watts ( 2000 BThU/Hr) would
take 15 hours or so - no use if several people want baths!

Roger

On Mon, 10 Nov 2003 12:12:56 -0000, "Roger Mills"
wrote:

I'm sure that 15,000 BThU/Hr (about 4.4 KW) had used to be the
recommendation for DHW.

That rings a bell with me too. You can get fast recovery cylinders however,
which will accept a much greater heat input. Although the less time
required to heat, the more you can probably afford to discount the loss to
the CH. I'd stick with the 15000btu.

--
I'm in a phone booth at the corner of Walk and Don't Walk.

Mail john rather than nospam...

Roger Mills wrote:

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...

Roger Mills wrote:


Does your boiler also need to provide domestic hot water? If so, add

a further 15,000-20,000 BThU/Hr.



NOTE: This does not compute if you have a hot water tank. You need very
little to heat a tank - maybe 500-600W. You DO need a lot of its a
comnbi system trho, since it has to het the water onthe fly,..but most
of these seem to chop the heating whilst the bath is running anyway...






I'm sure that 15,000 BThU/Hr (about 4.4 KW) had used to be the
recommendation for DHW. This would heat a 30 gallon tank from cold to 140
deg F (60 deg C) in about 2 hours. Your 500-600 watts ( 2000 BThU/Hr) would
take 15 hours or so - no use if several people want baths!


No, but they don't want baths every minute of every day

Its usually acceptable to rob some power from the radiators while
heating water - its generally done at different times of the day anyway.
I owuld expect e.g. to put the heating on at dusk, and water either
earlier or later, then run it very early in the morning - 3am say -
whereas heating maybe only comes on at 6-7 a.m. Some houses I have been
in, we used to use the immersion anyway in very cold weather.


What is important is to cover the worst case - where you have full
heating needed on a cold christmas day. Then maybe add a kilowatt on top
of that. In practice you just pick teh 'next size up' boiler. Its not a
hige efficiency saving to have a boiler sized on the limit anyway.



Roger

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
Roger Mills wrote:

I'm sure that 15,000 BThU/Hr (about 4.4 KW) had used to be the
recommendation for DHW. This would heat a 30 gallon tank from cold to
140
deg F (60 deg C) in about 2 hours. Your 500-600 watts ( 2000 BThU/Hr)
would
take 15 hours or so - no use if several people want baths!


No, but they don't want baths every minute of every day

Its usually acceptable to rob some power from the radiators while
heating water - its generally done at different times of the day anyway.
I owuld expect e.g. to put the heating on at dusk, and water either
earlier or later, then run it very early in the morning - 3am say -
whereas heating maybe only comes on at 6-7 a.m. Some houses I have been
in, we used to use the immersion anyway in very cold weather.


What is important is to cover the worst case - where you have full
heating needed on a cold christmas day. Then maybe add a kilowatt on top
of that. In practice you just pick teh 'next size up' boiler. Its not a
hige efficiency saving to have a boiler sized on the limit anyway.




Not many programmers cater for your suggested arrangement of having the
water on at totally different times from the heating.

To cater for a "worst case" of the heating full on on Christmas Day AND
several people wanting baths without waiting for the next "night shift" for
the water to get hot, you need the boiler capacity to be considerably more
than that needed to service the radiators. Your single kilowatt is totally
inadequate - 4 or 5 being needed.

Roger