[bm]

NPower are offering me a saving of £71 per year if I switched to them from
Hydro Elecrtric
Has anyone had experience of using nPower?
Blair

[Dave Liquorice[_3_]]

On Sun, 13 May 2012 21:34:15 +0100, bm wrote:

NPower are offering me a saving of £71 per year if I switched to them
from Hydro Elecrtric
Has anyone had experience of using nPower?

Switched to 'em a year ago on a 12 month contract, they wrote to me
well before that contract was due to end (good) with notification of
the reversion to their "standard tariff" with an associated 47%
increase (bad) but I knew about the reversion when I signed up and
had marked the diary... Shopped around but one of their other tariffs
was still the cheapest so (in theory, waiting for the paper work) I
have switched to that. (we shall see, the paper work should be with
me by 28th).

--
Cheers
Dave.

[Andy Burns[_7_]]

bm wrote:

NPower are offering me a saving of £71 per year if I switched to them
from Hydro Elecrtric Has anyone had experience of using nPower?

No, but I just used their online comparison calculator ...

I'm coming to the end of a 12 month fix with Eon, based on my actual
consumption figures nPower say their fix until Aug 2013 would be
£89/year more expensive, and their fix until Dec 2013 would be £130/year
more expensive, their Go Save non-fixed tariff would save me £28/annum
(depending on future price changes).

JOOI, does anyone know if smart meter readings are accepted by all
suppliers, or only the supplier who fitted them?

[geoff]

In message , bm writes
NPower are offering me a saving of £71 per year if I switched to them from
Hydro Elecrtric
Has anyone had experience of using nPower?
Blair


Hold on - Which, in association with 38 Degrees are in the process of
negotiating a bulk consumer deal ATM

https://secure.38degrees.org.uk/pages/the_big_switch_phase2#petition

The more the merrier


--
geoff

[Andrew Gabriel]

In article ,
geoff writes:
In message , bm writes
NPower are offering me a saving of £71 per year if I switched to them from
Hydro Elecrtric
Has anyone had experience of using nPower?
Blair


Hold on - Which, in association with 38 Degrees are in the process of
negotiating a bulk consumer deal ATM

https://secure.38degrees.org.uk/pages/the_big_switch_phase2#petition

The more the merrier

It's closd now. It was covered on one of the Radio 4 programs.
The best deal Which could get could only handle about 1/10th of
the people who signed up. The second best deal that most of them
will get is not as good as they would have got individually if
they'd picked some of the best options that were available from
suppliers during the sign-up period, so they lost out waiting
for this scheme.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

[geoff]

In message , Andrew Gabriel
writes
In article ,
geoff writes:
In message , bm writes
NPower are offering me a saving of £71 per year if I switched to them from
Hydro Elecrtric
Has anyone had experience of using nPower?
Blair


Hold on - Which, in association with 38 Degrees are in the process of
negotiating a bulk consumer deal ATM

https://secure.38degrees.org.uk/pages/the_big_switch_phase2#petition

The more the merrier

It's closd now. It was covered on one of the Radio 4 programs.
The best deal Which could get could only handle about 1/10th of
the people who signed up.

Why was that then?

The second best deal that most of them
will get is not as good as they would have got individually if
they'd picked some of the best options that were available from
suppliers during the sign-up period, so they lost out waiting
for this scheme.


--
geoff

[Frank Erskine]

On Sun, 13 May 2012 22:52:49 +0100, Andy Burns
wrote:

bm wrote:

NPower are offering me a saving of £71 per year if I switched to them
from Hydro Elecrtric Has anyone had experience of using nPower?

No, but I just used their online comparison calculator ...

I'm coming to the end of a 12 month fix with Eon, based on my actual
consumption figures nPower say their fix until Aug 2013 would be
£89/year more expensive, and their fix until Dec 2013 would be £130/year
more expensive, their Go Save non-fixed tariff would save me £28/annum
(depending on future price changes).

Why do they all have to make it so complicated? It should be possible
to simply get a price list (on a piece of real paper) from each
supplier quoting their price per BThU, kWh or whatever of gas and
leccy, as well as any terms for, say, dual-fuel discounts, on-line
readings submission and so on, so that the potential (!) customer can
then enter these into a spreadsheet and choose the best option.
Only today (well, yesterday by now) I was nabbed by a salesman (Eon,
ISTR) in a shopping centre, asking me if I would mind telling him who
my energy supplier is. I told him that I do mind (Scottish Power, as
it happens, but don't tell the Eon salesman) - he quite politely said
that he was just doing his job.

Of course the reality is that all their charges/tariffs are so
volatile that choosing a "best deal" today may become horrendous
almost tomorrow...

Speaking of which, the price of unleaded petrol seems to have dipped
somewhat - locally Asda are doing it for 134.7 pence per litre.
BP, who were one of the worst, are currently quite competitive .in
certain locations.

--
Frank Erskine

[Rod Speed]

Frank Erskine wrote
Andy Burns wrote
bm wrote

NPower are offering me a saving of £71 per year if I switched to them
from Hydro Elecrtric Has anyone had experience of using nPower?

No, but I just used their online comparison calculator ...

I'm coming to the end of a 12 month fix with Eon, based on my actual
consumption figures nPower say their fix until Aug 2013 would be
£89/year more expensive, and their fix until Dec 2013 would be £130/year
more expensive, their Go Save non-fixed tariff would save me £28/annum
(depending on future price changes).

Why do they all have to make it so complicated?

So you cant just compare the simple figure and go for the cheapest.

And with that fixed price possibility, there clearly has to
be a different price for the fixed and non fixed price, and
for the time for which the fixed price is fixed for too.

It should be possible to simply get a price list (on a piece of real
paper)

No thanks, I'd much rather have it on their web site.

from each supplier quoting their price per BThU, kWh or
whatever of gas and leccy, as well as any terms for, say,
dual-fuel discounts, on-line readings submission and
so on, so that the potential (!) customer can then enter
these into a spreadsheet and choose the best option.

That isnt going to be possible with the fixed price option alone.

Only today (well, yesterday by now) I was nabbed by a salesman
(Eon, ISTR) in a shopping centre, asking me if I would mind telling
him who my energy supplier is. I told him that I do mind (Scottish
Power, as it happens, but don't tell the Eon salesman) - he quite
politely said that he was just doing his job.

Of course the reality is that all their charges/tariffs
are so volatile that choosing a "best deal" today
may become horrendous almost tomorrow...

And that's why you desire for simplicity just isnt feasible.

Speaking of which, the price of unleaded petrol seems
to have dipped somewhat - locally Asda are doing it for
134.7 pence per litre. BP, who were one of the worst, are
currently quite competitive .in certain locations.

And that's another example of where simplicity just isnt feasible.

[Andy Burns[_7_]]

Frank Erskine wrote:

Of course the reality is that all their charges/tariffs are so
volatile that choosing a "best deal" today may become horrendous
almost tomorrow...

Some of the 12 month fixed price deals are only marginally more
expensive than the current price of 12 month additional discount deals,
the energy companies seem to be sending out scare stories for next
winter already, presumably based on forward prices they're negotiating?

[dennis@home]

"Andrew Gabriel" wrote in message
...
In article ,
geoff writes:
In message , bm writes
NPower are offering me a saving of £71 per year if I switched to them
from
Hydro Elecrtric
Has anyone had experience of using nPower?
Blair


Hold on - Which, in association with 38 Degrees are in the process of
negotiating a bulk consumer deal ATM

https://secure.38degrees.org.uk/pages/the_big_switch_phase2#petition

The more the merrier

It's closd now. It was covered on one of the Radio 4 programs.
The best deal Which could get could only handle about 1/10th of
the people who signed up. The second best deal that most of them
will get is not as good as they would have got individually if
they'd picked some of the best options that were available from
suppliers during the sign-up period, so they lost out waiting
for this scheme.

Didn't they use Co-Op as they were more "ethical" and used more green power
than the others.
If it really uses green energy then it *will* cost more.

[Dave Liquorice[_3_]]

On Mon, 14 May 2012 02:21:13 +0100, Frank Erskine wrote:

Why do they all have to make it so complicated? It should be possible
to simply get a price list (on a piece of real paper) from each
supplier quoting their price per BThU, kWh or whatever of gas and
leccy, as well as any terms for, say, dual-fuel discounts, on-line
readings submission and so on,

You show exactly why it's so complicated with all the extra discounts
that can apply to the various base tarrif rates. All I'm really
interested in is the final cost per unit on each tariff, after
discounts, for the various charging structures of standing charge and
"no" standing charge.

I don't even need a bit of paper, having the information displayed
clearly and easy to find on the websites would be fine. Not buried
inside a 200MB .pdf, the link to which is also buried six menus down
behind a login page.

At least the comparison sites normally have a link to the actual
charges that a given tariff has.

I was nabbed by a salesman (Eon, ISTR) in a shopping centre, asking me
if I would mind telling him who my energy supplier is. I told him that I
do mind ...

Very wise, there are far too many cases of people having their
supplier changed without giving permission.

Speaking of which, the price of unleaded petrol seems to have dipped
somewhat -

Diesel has also taken a nose dive. 137.9(*) at Tesco Leyland Extra
last night. The Windle Roundabout Tesco Express was advertising 140.9
(still lower than 146.9, 144.9 and 142.9 Tesco Carlisle on the 13th,
28th April and 5th May) but hadn't got any so was quite pleased to be
forced to Leyland. B-)

(*) actually paid 132.9 as I had a 5p off a litre voucher so double
B-) And as each of those fillups has been 80l a reasonable bit of
cash is still in my pocket.

Crude prices have been falling from the end of Feb to the begining of
April the price was around $124/barrel (+/- $2). Since then is has
fallen to around $112 and looks to be still falling down over $1 this
morning to $111. (All prices Brent Futures this 10% or so drop is now
getting through to the retail market. Just wish I hadn't had to buy
heating oil two weeks ago. B-(

--
Cheers
Dave.

[Andrew Gabriel]

In article ,
geoff writes:
In message , Andrew Gabriel
writes
In article ,
geoff writes:
In message , bm writes
NPower are offering me a saving of £71 per year if I switched to them from
Hydro Elecrtric
Has anyone had experience of using nPower?
Blair


Hold on - Which, in association with 38 Degrees are in the process of
negotiating a bulk consumer deal ATM

https://secure.38degrees.org.uk/pages/the_big_switch_phase2#petition

The more the merrier

It's closd now. It was covered on one of the Radio 4 programs.
The best deal Which could get could only handle about 1/10th of
the people who signed up.

Why was that then?

The big suppliers wouldn't take part, or wouldn't give good
pricing. The small suppliers are limited on their available
power, and can't suddenly muster up 10 times what they've
already agreed to buy on the wholesale markets.
I see the press are pointing out there are cheaper individual
deals available today than the Which? deal.

The Which? scheme probably got too big, at least, for how the
energy markets work today. There are many other smaller schemes
running successfully. I suspect you just can't walkaround
trying to buy energy for 30,000 homes (IIRC) - there isn't
that much slop in the market, and trying to buy that much
energy in one go will significantly force prices up. (I know
that no more energy is actually required, but the markets
don't work that way - it was already committed to other
suppliers.) Also, the big suppliers would not have wanted it
to work, and their lack of cooperation probably had a big
impact.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

[Andy Cap[_7_]]

On Mon, 14 May 2012 02:21:13 +0100, Frank Erskine
wrote:

Why do they all have to make it so complicated? I

So the unwary pay more, which means especially the elderly and likely PC
illiterate. It's a bloody disgrace that we penalise the less able in society in
that way.

Andy C

[Martin Brown]

On 14/05/2012 12:15, Andy Cap wrote:
On Mon, 14 May 2012 02:21:13 +0100, Frank
wrote:

Why do they all have to make it so complicated? I

So the unwary pay more, which means especially the elderly and likely PC

I'd be inclined to say that almost no-one can find their way through the
maze of zillions of different electricity charging tariffs without
computer assistance. They seem to have modelled it on the equally
convoluted, opaque and perplexing mobile phone tariff schemes.

illiterate. It's a bloody disgrace that we penalise the less able in society in
that way.

I don't know if they have improved the format of their billing but the
last time I looked at an nPower bill it required serious effort to
decode their incredibly convoluted charging system into user friendly
form. Basically it is all obfuscation to prevent you noticing when the
price goes up after the initial "poach a new customer" period.

All the energy companies do it to some extent, but nPower bills of a
couple of years back were amongst the worst that I have ever seen!

I would be very wary of nPower coming out cheaper unless you do not live
in their home region. It seems to me like a good rule of thumb that you
have to avoid your local supplier to get a good deal.

Since customer loyalty is punished rather than encouraged the only thing
you can do is look around and move from time to time. The biggest gain
by far is made the very first time you move supplier.

Last time I looked EDF & Scottish came out fairly well for me - a
relatively light user of electricity with oil heating.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

[chris French]

In message , Andy
Burns writes
bm wrote:

NPower are offering me a saving of £71 per year if I switched to them
from Hydro Elecrtric Has anyone had experience of using nPower?

No, but I just used their online comparison calculator ...

I'm coming to the end of a 12 month fix with Eon, based on my actual
consumption figures nPower say their fix until Aug 2013 would be
£89/year more expensive, and their fix until Dec 2013 would be
£130/year more expensive, their Go Save non-fixed tariff would save me
£28/annum (depending on future price changes).

JOOI, does anyone know if smart meter readings are accepted by all
suppliers, or only the supplier who fitted them?


I've been with npower for electricity for a few years now, they've been
fine. No major issues, have had to ring them a couple of times bout
something or other and it was all sorted painlessly enough IIRC.

AIUI, at the moment, the smart meter readings may or may not be used by
another supplier, but presumably this will change in future, since the
Govt want's all the meters to be smart meters eventually.
--
Chris French

[Andrew Gabriel]

In article ,
Andy Cap writes:
On Mon, 14 May 2012 02:21:13 +0100, Frank Erskine
wrote:

Why do they all have to make it so complicated? I

So the unwary pay more, which means especially the elderly and likely PC
illiterate. It's a bloody disgrace that we penalise the less able in society in
that way.

Isn't the National Lottery just a tax on the less intelligent members
of society? And that's even sponsored by the Government...

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

[Andy Cap[_7_]]

On 14/05/12 15:36, Andrew Gabriel wrote:

So the unwary pay more, which means especially the elderly and likely PC
illiterate. It's a bloody disgrace that we penalise the less able in society in
that way.

Isn't the National Lottery just a tax on the less intelligent members
of society? And that's even sponsored by the Government...


I guess so but to 'play games' with something as necessary as heating,
is out of order IMO.

Andy C

[Tim Lamb[_2_]]

In message , Andrew Gabriel
writes
It's closd now. It was covered on one of the Radio 4 programs.
The best deal Which could get could only handle about 1/10th of
the people who signed up.

Why was that then?

The big suppliers wouldn't take part, or wouldn't give good
pricing. The small suppliers are limited on their available
power, and can't suddenly muster up 10 times what they've
already agreed to buy on the wholesale markets.
I see the press are pointing out there are cheaper individual
deals available today than the Which? deal.

The Which? scheme probably got too big, at least, for how the
energy markets work today. There are many other smaller schemes
running successfully. I suspect you just can't walkaround
trying to buy energy for 30,000 homes (IIRC) - there isn't
that much slop in the market, and trying to buy that much
energy in one go will significantly force prices up. (I know
that no more energy is actually required, but the markets
don't work that way - it was already committed to other
suppliers.) Also, the big suppliers would not have wanted it
to work, and their lack of cooperation probably had a big
impact.

My electricity is purchased through a *buying group*. Currently roughly
50% of the domestic tariff. Probably needs to be re-negotiated shortly
so we'll see!

I don't know how many group members took up the offer but probably in
the low hundreds. The elco fitted a *phone home* smart meter.

regards


--
Tim Lamb

[dennis@home]

"Andrew Gabriel" wrote in message
...

Isn't the National Lottery just a tax on the less intelligent members
of society? And that's even sponsored by the Government...

Like the health lottery is a private tax as the 80% they keep doesn't go to
the government unlike the national lottery.

[Rod Speed]

Andy Cap wrote
Frank Erskine wrote

Why do they all have to make it so complicated? I

So the unwary pay more, which means especially the
elderly and likely PC illiterate. It's a bloody disgrace
that we penalise the less able in society in that way.

Its always been that way, most obviously with
lending money to the mathematically illiterate.

Yeah, yeah, for the nit pickers, that should be innumerate.

[Rod Speed]

Martin Brown wrote
Andy Cap wrote
Frank wrote

Why do they all have to make it so complicated?

So the unwary pay more, which means especially
the elderly and likely PC illiterate.

I'd be inclined to say that almost no-one can find
their way through the maze of zillions of different
electricity charging tariffs without computer assistance.

And it isnt even possible with computer assistance
with some of the choices, most obviously with the
choice between fixed rates and non fixed rates.

They seem to have modelled it on the equally convoluted,
opaque and perplexing mobile phone tariff schemes.

And they are that complicated for the same
reason, so its very hard to compare the offers.

Even the automated comparisons using your recent
bills don't really work that well because they cant
allow for how you can change you activity to suit
the detail of the various alternative plans, like doing
the high load stuff when that plan has the lowest
rate for that type of activity etc.

It's a bloody disgrace that we penalise
the less able in society in that way.

I don't know if they have improved the format of their billing but
the last time I looked at an nPower bill it required serious effort to
decode their incredibly convoluted charging system into user friendly
form. Basically it is all obfuscation to prevent you noticing when the
price goes up after the initial "poach a new customer" period.

All the energy companies do it to some extent, but nPower bills of a
couple of years back were amongst the worst that I have ever seen!

I would be very wary of nPower coming out cheaper unless you
do not live in their home region. It seems to me like a good rule of
thumb that you have to avoid your local supplier to get a good deal.

Since customer loyalty is punished rather than encouraged the only
thing you can do is look around and move from time to time. The
biggest gain by far is made the very first time you move supplier.

Last time I looked EDF & Scottish came out fairly well for
me - a relatively light user of electricity with oil heating.

[John Bryan]

In message
"bm" wrote:

NPower are offering me a saving of £71 per year if I switched to them from
Hydro Elecrtric
Has anyone had experience of using nPower?
Blair

Tried 5 comparison websites and all said npower go save would save
money on my usage. Signed up with them and they revised payments up to
more than double my present supplier.

Phoned my last supplier Scottish Power and got to their cancellation
team and the terms were 25 percent cheaper but accepted the
cancellation fee within the contract.

I could not find the tariff on their website so who is kidding who?
The whole energy supply industry wants splitting up and staring again!

--
John Bryan

[Lobster]

On 14/05/2012 21:20, Rod Speed wrote:
Martin Brown wrote
Andy Cap wrote
Frank wrote

Why do they all have to make it so complicated?

So the unwary pay more, which means especially the elderly and likely
PC illiterate.

I'd be inclined to say that almost no-one can find their way through
the maze of zillions of different electricity charging tariffs without
computer assistance.

And it isnt even possible with computer assistance
with some of the choices, most obviously with the
choice between fixed rates and non fixed rates.
They seem to have modelled it on the equally convoluted, opaque and
perplexing mobile phone tariff schemes.

And they are that complicated for the same reason, so its very hard to
compare the offers.

I've found most of the various 'comparison' sites
(http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/uti...as-electricity)
work pretty well. IMHO the key is to know your actual *annual*
consumption in units of both gas and electricity - no faffing about with
estimations based on house size, number of consumers, last two bills
etc. Over a year I reckon most people's consumption is probably pretty
consistent, averaging out the effects of weather, different activities etc.

All the comparison sites let you plug in your annual consumption, and
it's also the quickest way to do it.

I always check at least two sites for consistent answers, and then plug
the final numbers into the selected utility co's site for reassurance.
Oh, and then back to either the comparison site or Quidco to actually
sign up, to ensure I get the £30 or £40 kickback! .

And the other 'must do' of course is not to forget to do this every year..

[Rod Speed]

Lobster wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Martin Brown wrote
Andy Cap wrote
Frank wrote

Why do they all have to make it so complicated?

So the unwary pay more, which means especially the elderly and likely
PC illiterate.

I'd be inclined to say that almost no-one can find their way through the
maze of zillions of different electricity charging tariffs without
computer assistance.

And it isnt even possible with computer assistance
with some of the choices, most obviously with the
choice between fixed rates and non fixed rates.

They seem to have modelled it on the equally convoluted, opaque and
perplexing mobile phone tariff schemes.

And they are that complicated for the same reason, so its very hard to
compare the offers.

I've found most of the various 'comparison' sites
(http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/uti...as-electricity)
work pretty well.

They cant on that very fundamental question of what\
difference a change of usage will make to your annual
bill with the various different alternatives, particularly
when the alternatives have time of use rates etc.

IMHO the key is to know your actual *annual* consumption in units of both
gas and electricity

Doesn't help with varying your style of use based
on what the time of use tariff makes cheaper etc.

Some things you can change when you do things, others you cant.

- no faffing about with estimations based on house size, number of
consumers, last two bills etc.

Sure, that certainly is a very crude approach.

Over a year I reckon most people's consumption is probably pretty
consistent, averaging out the effects of weather, different activities
etc.

But can be varied to take advantage of time of use tariffs.

All the comparison sites let you plug in your annual consumption, and it's
also the quickest way to do it.

But doesn't allow for you varying your activitys
to take advantage of time of use tariffs.

I always check at least two sites for consistent answers, and then plug
the final numbers into the selected utility co's site for reassurance.

But doesn't allow for you varying your activitys
to take advantage of time of use tariffs.

Oh, and then back to either the comparison site or Quidco to actually sign
up, to ensure I get the £30 or £40 kickback! .

And the other 'must do' of course is not to forget to do this every year..

[Dave Liquorice[_3_]]

On Tue, 15 May 2012 00:32:19 +0100, John Bryan wrote:

Tried 5 comparison websites and all said npower go save would save
money on my usage.

5 sites doesn't mean a lot there are only 2 or 3 databases out there
all many comparison are just different front ends to one or other of
the databases.

Signed up with them and they revised payments up to more than double my
present supplier.

So you whine at them and get the payment reduced. They all try it on
but essentially they want your custom so will normally not argue when
presented with what your old payment was and not oweing your old
supllier anything.

I could not find the tariff on their website so who is kidding who?

Whose tariff, nPower or Scottish?. I normally use the comparision
sites for tariff info as it's usually easy to find unlike the power
co sites.

--
Cheers
Dave.

[ARWadsworth]

Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
Andy Cap writes:
On Mon, 14 May 2012 02:21:13 +0100, Frank Erskine
wrote:

Why do they all have to make it so complicated? I

So the unwary pay more, which means especially the elderly and
likely PC illiterate. It's a bloody disgrace that we penalise the
less able in society in that way.

Isn't the National Lottery just a tax on the less intelligent members
of society? And that's even sponsored by the Government...

Possibly. But I play it. I also have the odd bet if there is an event I am
interested in (sometimes on line and sometimes with a friend) and this adds
to the excitement of the event.

I spend a lot less on the lottery than I do on fuel and alcohol duty. I
never buy scratchcards and I never buy extra tickets for rollovers. It's £6
worth of tickets a week. Of course I would like to win a million or two but
I do not buy a ticket thinking I will win. ISTR £180 is the most I have won.


£6 will not get me to work and back for one days work.


I buy online and never need to check the numbers.

--
Adam