[mike[_7_]]

Social Services have asked me to fit a Key Safe at the home of an
elderly relative.

Anyone got any experience - good or bad - of either of these from
Toolstation?

http://www.toolstation.com/shop/p18696

http://www.toolstation.com/shop/p18917

They've said they want it by the front door as they don't like going
to the rear of the house in the dark --- which seems reasonable.
Also, I guess a scrote could work unobserved at the rear. But putting
it near the front door leaves it visible from the road. Any
suggestions for making it accessible but unobtrusive?

Thanks in advance for any advice.

[dennis@home]

"mike" wrote in message
...
Social Services have asked me to fit a Key Safe at the home of an
elderly relative.

Anyone got any experience - good or bad - of either of these from
Toolstation?

http://www.toolstation.com/shop/p18696

http://www.toolstation.com/shop/p18917

They've said they want it by the front door as they don't like going
to the rear of the house in the dark --- which seems reasonable.
Also, I guess a scrote could work unobserved at the rear. But putting
it near the front door leaves it visible from the road. Any
suggestions for making it accessible but unobtrusive?

Thanks in advance for any advice.

Don't put it in a porch as nobody takes any notice of people in porches so
they can spend as long as they like "guessing" the code.

Put it where the user will be in full view of passing people and/or
neighbours.

You can hide it behind a down pipe or similar.

You can fit a code lock on the door instead.

[The Other Mike[_3_]]

On Mon, 16 Apr 2012 14:06:05 -0700 (PDT), mike
wrote:

Social Services have asked me to fit a Key Safe at the home of an
elderly relative.

Anyone got any experience - good or bad - of either of these from
Toolstation?

http://www.toolstation.com/shop/p18696

http://www.toolstation.com/shop/p18917

They've said they want it by the front door as they don't like going
to the rear of the house in the dark --- which seems reasonable.
Also, I guess a scrote could work unobserved at the rear. But putting
it near the front door leaves it visible from the road. Any
suggestions for making it accessible but unobtrusive?

Thanks in advance for any advice.

Know of someone with the 2nd one, it's prone to jamming with just a
single Yale mortice lock key inside.


--

[Dave Liquorice[_3_]]

On Mon, 16 Apr 2012 14:06:05 -0700 (PDT), mike wrote:

http://www.toolstation.com/shop/p18696

http://www.toolstation.com/shop/p18917

Late father had the second type for social services. It worked.

Also, I guess a scrote could work unobserved at the rear. But putting
it near the front door leaves it visible from the road.

Having it's location if not it visible from the road or passers by is
a major part of the security. They are only diecast metal, any half
decent pry bar will have it open very quickly... Making access for a
pry bar difficult would help so the top against an overhang and in an
internal wall corner.

Can't decide if having it firmly fixed to the wall is good or bad. If
it's firm then the pry bar will have something to work against, if it
falls off the moment any significant force is applied it will be
harder to hold to pry open.

--
Cheers
Dave.

[Dave Liquorice[_3_]]

On Mon, 16 Apr 2012 23:06:02 +0100, dennis@home wrote:

You can fit a code lock on the door instead.

But be aware that many of those just need the correct numbers pressed
in any order to open. So 2578 or 5287 or any other combination of the
four numbers will open the lock.

--
Cheers
Dave.

[Clive George]

On 16/04/2012 23:28, Dave Liquorice wrote:

Can't decide if having it firmly fixed to the wall is good or bad. If
it's firm then the pry bar will have something to work against, if it
falls off the moment any significant force is applied it will be
harder to hold to pry open.

True but one can scarper with it to somewhere with tools then come back
later with the now-extracted contents.

[dennis@home]

"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
ll.co.uk...


Can't decide if having it firmly fixed to the wall is good or bad. If
it's firm then the pry bar will have something to work against, if it
falls off the moment any significant force is applied it will be
harder to hold to pry open.

But easy to take away and anglegrind.

[Nightjar]

On 16/04/2012 22:06, mike wrote:
Social Services have asked me to fit a Key Safe at the home of an
elderly relative.

Anyone got any experience - good or bad - of either of these from
Toolstation?

http://www.toolstation.com/shop/p18696

http://www.toolstation.com/shop/p18917

Those do not appear to be part of the Secured by Design initiative. This
one is, there may be others:

http://www.keysafe.co.uk/


They've said they want it by the front door as they don't like going
to the rear of the house in the dark --- which seems reasonable.
Also, I guess a scrote could work unobserved at the rear. But putting
it near the front door leaves it visible from the road. Any
suggestions for making it accessible but unobtrusive?

Very difficult to give specific advice without seeing the site and you
ought not to post pictures for us to do that. The best option would
probably be to call in a proper locksmith to advise, supply and fit. It
won't be as cheap as buying one from Toolstation, but a locksmith will
have a lot of experience in making it at least as secure as the front
door itself.

Colin Bignell

[Bert Coules]

Mike,

I have bought and fitted the second of those to a relative's bungalow. It's
been in thrice-daily (or more) use by a variety of nurses and carers over
the past few months and has proved entirely safe and reliable.

Bert

[Peter Parry]

On Mon, 16 Apr 2012 14:06:05 -0700 (PDT), mike
wrote:

Social Services have asked me to fit a Key Safe at the home of an
elderly relative.

Anyone got any experience - good or bad - of either of these from
Toolstation?

http://www.toolstation.com/shop/p18696

http://www.toolstation.com/shop/p18917

I've come across a few of these and they have never impressed me as
being particularly secure.

The Squire version is better made
http://www.squirelocks.co.uk/pdfs/squire_keykeep.pdf
http://www.ironmongerydirect.co.uk/P...ey_Safe/971905

They've said they want it by the front door as they don't like going
to the rear of the house in the dark --- which seems reasonable.
Also, I guess a scrote could work unobserved at the rear. But putting
it near the front door leaves it visible from the road. Any
suggestions for making it accessible but unobtrusive?

You could always go for a Squire Rim Combi
http://www.saundersonsecurity.co.uk/...al_Keypad.html
http://www.squirelocks.co.uk/pdfs/fi..._rim_combi.pdf

Otherwise remember the key safe has to be found by different people so
hiding it isn't always the best idea, especially given the abilities
of some Social Services staff. Visible as you get near the door is
usual.

Make sure you have several spare keys cut. It isn't unusual for staff
to wander off with the key in their pocket.

I would avoid mechanical push button locks, as Dave has mentioned most
open with the 4 numbers no matter what order they are pushed and after
a short period of use the 4 buttons get sufficiently marked to make
guessing the entry code very easy for scrotes.

There are plenty of electronic such as
http://www.ironmongerydirect.co.uk/P...ey_Safe/971905
but they are more expensive.

[Jim K[_3_]]

On Tue, 17 Apr 2012 11:08:52 +0100, Bert Coules
wrote:

Mike,

I have bought and fitted the second of those to a relative's bungalow.
It's been in thrice-daily (or more) use by a variety of nurses and
carers over the past few months and has proved entirely safe and
reliable.

Bert

well you mean it's reliable...

"entirely safe" seems unproven?

Jim K

[Bert Coules]

"Jim K" wrote:

well you mean it's reliable...

"entirely safe" seems unproven?

I know what you mean, but I hold to what I said: in the months it's been
installed the mechanism has worked flawlessly, its position has proved
convenient for those who know it's there and not tempting for anyone who
doesn't: there have been no attempts to break into it. I regard that as
being entirely safe.

I can't of course, comment on how it would hold up to a prolonged or
particularly violent attack, but then exactly the same could be said of the
front door to the property.

Bert

[mogga]

On Mon, 16 Apr 2012 14:06:05 -0700 (PDT), mike
wrote:

Social Services have asked me to fit a Key Safe at the home of an
elderly relative.

Anyone got any experience - good or bad - of either of these from
Toolstation?

http://www.toolstation.com/shop/p18696

http://www.toolstation.com/shop/p18917

They've said they want it by the front door as they don't like going
to the rear of the house in the dark --- which seems reasonable.
Also, I guess a scrote could work unobserved at the rear. But putting
it near the front door leaves it visible from the road. Any
suggestions for making it accessible but unobtrusive?

Thanks in advance for any advice.


Took us months to notice the old lady but 1 had one.
Just by the door frame where a door bell would be.
--
http://www.voucherfreebies.co.uk

[The Medway Handyman]

On 16/04/2012 23:30, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Mon, 16 Apr 2012 23:06:02 +0100, dennis@home wrote:

You can fit a code lock on the door instead.

But be aware that many of those just need the correct numbers pressed
in any order to open. So 2578 or 5287 or any other combination of the
four numbers will open the lock.


Take care when setting the combination. My (paramedic) daughter used to
encounter a lot of these when she was operational. If they hadn't been
given the code, they would ask a neighbour when the person was born -
old people are always telling others how old they are - and they would
try the year first, then day/month.

They had an 80% success rate.

Problem is - the oldie needs a number they can remember easily if they
get locked out.

--
Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

[mike[_7_]]

Thanks for all the replies.

A code lock on the door would be more problematic for the relative,
and really this is about Social Services having access to the key.

I looked at CB's Secured by Design recommendation. It's tempting. It
may well be good. But I like it less after seeing the cheesy promo
videos and the OAP game. Our local crime prevention unit are
recommending the Toolstation ones.

So I'm going to go for one of the Toolstation ones or the Squire that
PP suggested, depending on what's available en route tomorrow.

Thanks again.

[Chris Holford[_2_]]

In article
..com, mike writes
Social Services have asked me to fit a Key Safe at the home of an
elderly relative.

Anyone got any experience - good or bad - of either of these from
Toolstation?


http://www.toolstation.com/shop/p18917
Just moved into a house where there was one of these fitted for the old
lady who had previously lived there; I was able to crack it in less than
a minute using a method shown on a Youtube video;
--
Chris Holford