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Radiator reflective foil



 
 
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  #1  
Old December 14th 11, 01:49 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Posts: 157
Default Radiator reflective foil

Does it lose its effectiveness if emulsioned over? This one, though
expensive looks ideal, any experience here please?
http://www.greenstamp.co.uk/product_...roducts_id/268

--
Residing on low ground in North Staffordshire
Ads
  #2  
Old December 14th 11, 03:00 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Posts: 1,722
Default Radiator reflective foil

On 14/12/2011 13:49, Moonraker wrote:
Does it lose its effectiveness if emulsioned over? This one, though


Of course.

It has to be a mirror surface to be "not a black body" at thermal
wavelengths. Same way that thin metallic coating is used on survival
blankets to get maximum reduction in heat loss for minimum weight.

The way it works to stop heat loss is by being a mirror surface
reflector - and preferably backed with 3-5mm of expanded polystyrene to
insulate it from the cold wall as well. Both play their part here.

expensive looks ideal, any experience here please?
http://www.greenstamp.co.uk/product_...roducts_id/268

Interesting aluminium foil that is magnetic. Ovepriced junk. If you
stick it onto the radiator itself you reduce the convective heat output.

The best buy at the moment are the roughly 60cm square sheets for foil
backed with 5mm of polystyrene in B&Q/Wickes. They mount onto the wall.
See the previous thread for details.

Regards,
Martin Brown
  #3  
Old December 14th 11, 03:04 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Posts: 3,251
Default Radiator reflective foil

In article , Moonraker
writes
Does it lose its effectiveness if emulsioned over? This one, though
expensive looks ideal, any experience here please?
http://www..co.uk/product_info.php/products_id/268

This absolutely stinks of false review/mention spam but benefit of the
doubt given:

The only stuff like this that works is foil with a thin layer of
insulation backing that is stuck to or otherwise fitted very close to
the wall. It works by reflecting radiated heat and providing a little
insulation where it is most needed. Painting it will remove any
radiation reflecting benefit.

Attaching bare foil of any flavour directly to the radiator, as proposed
on the linked site, is a total waste of time and is highly likely to
reduce the heat output from the radiator.

Given the apparent misinformation presented on the linked site I would
recommend avoiding it..
--
fred
it's a ba-na-na . . . .
  #4  
Old December 14th 11, 03:06 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Posts: 3,574
Default Radiator reflective foil

On Dec 14, 1:49*pm, Moonraker wrote:
Does it lose its effectiveness if emulsioned over? This one, though
expensive looks ideal, any experience here please


No. Radiators convect, they dont radiate, and a shiny metal surface
makes no difference to convection or conduction. Its a waste of
kitchen foil.


NT
  #5  
Old December 14th 11, 03:11 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Posts: 1,722
Default Radiator reflective foil

On 14/12/2011 15:04, fred wrote:
In article , Moonraker
writes
Does it lose its effectiveness if emulsioned over? This one, though
expensive looks ideal, any experience here please?
http://www..co.uk/product_info.php/products_id/268


On balance it looks like a greensploitation site to me.

This absolutely stinks of false review/mention spam but benefit of the
doubt given:

The only stuff like this that works is foil with a thin layer of
insulation backing that is stuck to or otherwise fitted very close to
the wall. It works by reflecting radiated heat and providing a little
insulation where it is most needed. Painting it will remove any
radiation reflecting benefit.

Attaching bare foil of any flavour directly to the radiator, as proposed
on the linked site, is a total waste of time and is highly likely to
reduce the heat output from the radiator.

Given the apparent misinformation presented on the linked site I would
recommend avoiding it..


I'll second that.

Regards,
Martin Brown

  #6  
Old December 14th 11, 03:21 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Posts: 1,087
Default Radiator reflective foil

In message , Moonraker
writes
Does it lose its effectiveness if emulsioned over? This one, though
expensive looks ideal, any experience here please?
http://www.greenstamp.co.uk/product_...roducts_id/268

I always thought that heat-reflecting foil went on the wall behind the
radiator. However, as this type is held in position with magnetic tape,
presumably it goes on the metal of the radiator itself.

As its wall-side surface is shiny, this should reduce the radiator's
radiation in the direction of the wall. As its radiator-side will also
be shiny, this will reflect heat back into the radiator.

As presumably it won't be seen, why would you even want to emulsion over
it?

As matter of principle, yes, anything which reduces the reflectivity of
a radiating (or an absorbing surface) will reduce its effectiveness in
radiating/absorbing heat. However, it could be argued that the thickness
of the paint reduces the heat conduction to/from a metal surface of the
paint.
--
Ian

--- Posted via news://freenews.netfront.net/ - Complaints to ---
  #7  
Old December 14th 11, 03:43 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Posts: 1,722
Default Radiator reflective foil

On 14/12/2011 15:06, NT wrote:
On Dec 14, 1:49 pm, wrote:
Does it lose its effectiveness if emulsioned over? This one, though
expensive looks ideal, any experience here please


No. Radiators convect, they dont radiate, and a shiny metal surface
makes no difference to convection or conduction. Its a waste of
kitchen foil.


Actually it makes a fair bit of difference once the temperature of the
radiator is above 50C or so. Convection is still dominant but you can
also feel the thermal radiation in front of most decent radiators.

Reflecting that away from *outer* walls is worthwhile, but far better
with insulation behind so the foil is thermally isolated.

I have seen someone get caught out by an old style linear regulator PSU
they put in a basic folded shiny aluminium case and it got so hot that
it went into thermal shutdown. After painting it black it was 60C.

(in fact any non metallic colour would do as "Black" for thermal IR)

Regards,
Martin Brown
  #8  
Old December 15th 11, 09:56 AM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Posts: 9,216
Default Radiator reflective foil

On Dec 14, 3:43*pm, Martin Brown
wrote:
On 14/12/2011 15:06, NT wrote:

On Dec 14, 1:49 pm, *wrote:
Does it lose its effectiveness if emulsioned over? This one, though
expensive looks ideal, any experience here please


No. Radiators convect, they dont radiate, and a shiny metal surface
makes no difference to convection or conduction. Its a waste of
kitchen foil.


Actually it makes a fair bit of difference once the temperature of the
radiator is above 50C or so. Convection is still dominant but you can
also feel the thermal radiation in front of most decent radiators.

Reflecting that away from *outer* walls is worthwhile, but far better
with insulation behind so the foil is thermally isolated.

I have seen someone get caught out by an old style linear regulator PSU
they put in a basic folded shiny aluminium case and it got so hot that
it went into thermal shutdown. After painting it black it was 60C.

(in fact any non metallic colour would do as "Black" for thermal IR)

Regards,
Martin Brown


Everything above abolute zero temperature (minus 273.15degC) radiates
energy. if you have two adjacent objects at different temperatures,
they radiate energy at one another until they equalise. Assuming
energy is not being added to them).
The shiney foil delays the process.
  #9  
Old December 15th 11, 10:13 AM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Posts: 157
Default Radiator reflective foil

On 14/12/2011 15:21, Ian Jackson wrote:
In message , Moonraker
writes
Does it lose its effectiveness if emulsioned over? This one, though
expensive looks ideal, any experience here please?
http://www.greenstamp.co.uk/product_...roducts_id/268

I always thought that heat-reflecting foil went on the wall behind the
radiator. However, as this type is held in position with magnetic tape,
presumably it goes on the metal of the radiator itself.

As its wall-side surface is shiny, this should reduce the radiator's
radiation in the direction of the wall. As its radiator-side will also
be shiny, this will reflect heat back into the radiator.

As presumably it won't be seen, why would you even want to emulsion over
it?

As matter of principle, yes, anything which reduces the reflectivity of
a radiating (or an absorbing surface) will reduce its effectiveness in
radiating/absorbing heat. However, it could be argued that the thickness
of the paint reduces the heat conduction to/from a metal surface of the
paint.

Thanks for all the help, the general opinion is that the magnetic stuff
a rip off but it is worth using reflective foil, so I will send my
daughter to B&Q or Wickes for some, as it for her house!

--
Residing on low ground in North Staffordshire
  #10  
Old December 15th 11, 11:13 AM posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,574
Default Radiator reflective foil

On Dec 15, 9:56*am, harry wrote:
On Dec 14, 3:43*pm, Martin Brown
wrote:



On 14/12/2011 15:06, NT wrote:


On Dec 14, 1:49 pm, *wrote:
Does it lose its effectiveness if emulsioned over? This one, though
expensive looks ideal, any experience here please


No. Radiators convect, they dont radiate, and a shiny metal surface
makes no difference to convection or conduction. Its a waste of
kitchen foil.


Actually it makes a fair bit of difference once the temperature of the
radiator is above 50C or so. Convection is still dominant but you can
also feel the thermal radiation in front of most decent radiators.


Reflecting that away from *outer* walls is worthwhile, but far better
with insulation behind so the foil is thermally isolated.


I have seen someone get caught out by an old style linear regulator PSU
they put in a basic folded shiny aluminium case and it got so hot that
it went into thermal shutdown. After painting it black it was 60C.


(in fact any non metallic colour would do as "Black" for thermal IR)


Regards,
Martin Brown


Everything above abolute zero temperature (minus 273.15degC) radiates
energy. if you have two adjacent objects at different temperatures,
they radiate energy at one another until they equalise. Assuming
energy is not being added to them).
The shiney foil delays the process.


Yes, everything radiates, the question is how much. Radiators don't
radiate to a significant extent, meaning the conducted heat output is
very much greater. What's wanted to cut heat loss is insulation, not a
reflector.


NT
 




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