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UK diy (uk.d-i-y) For the discussion of all topics related to diy (do-it-yourself) in the UK. All levels of experience and proficency are welcome to join in to ask questions or offer solutions. |
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#41
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Dealing with height on ladders.
On Wed, 06 Jul 2011 15:02:13 +0100, John Rumm wrote:
With climbing rope you should remember that it is designed to save you in a fall but it will only do this once. As the energy absorbed it damages the rope and the rope gets longer. The rope will have its length marked at the ends. measure it and check the length matches the labels. if it has been stretched then bin it. There are two types of climbing rope IIUC - static and dynamic. The former does not stretch and is designed for belaying etc but not designed for fall arrest. We used polypropylene ropes for caving as they don't stretch much and they float. IIRC they came from a hauliers' merchant, were 11mm and had a rating of about 300 - 350kg. No good for climbing but OK where there's little or no shock loading. -- Peter. The gods will stay away whilst religions hold sway |
#42
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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Dealing with height on ladders.
In article ,
"SS" writes: I really need to paint the soffit board and sort some guttering problem is :- A. Cant really afford a pro and I am capable of doing the work. B. beyond around 10 feet I am crap on a ladder, even if I got higher I would be hanging on rather than doing anything. Ideally I would like to get the work done this summer although could probably wait til next year. Anyone else got this `fear` of height/ladders and how did you overcome it. I just done feel safe or comfortable 20 feet up. Is there a better type ladder I could use thinking it may be cheaper to buy something, use it, then sell on ebay. It is more working from a ladder than the height (I think) as I am currently painting the window above the front porch, it has a steep roof but I can access from the bedroom window, I just tie a rope around the bed hang it out and use that as a comfort thing. Strange thing is I cannot access the porch roof from a ladder, I tried and just got scared and backed off. Any thoughts or ideas on this would be appreciated. thanks Get a quote for having scaffolding erected professionally. That's what I did. It was much cheaper than I though it would be. It made working on the facias, windows, etc really easy. Wouldn't do it any other way again. -- Andrew Gabriel [email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup] |
#43
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Dealing with height on ladders.
In article ,
"Nightjar \"cpb\"@" "insertmysurnamehere writes: On 06/07/2011 13:52, Dave Liquorice wrote: On Wed, 6 Jul 2011 03:16:02 -0700 (PDT), Clive wrote: ... get a harness - but that will restrict movement, you need to make sure the fixing is *really* secure. And think how you are going to get down once you are dangling in the harness. You don't have long dangling before blood starts to pool in your legs and nasty physilogical things start to happen, including death. The answer to that is to use a rate of descent control device, rather than a fixed length of rope. You still hit the ground if you fall, but slowly enough for it not to hurt. I have a safety harness which works this way by having a long length of thick velcro which slowly rips apart. (At least in theory, I've never needed to try it, and it's a one-use only.) If you have to work by yourself, check the drop distance from the suspension point so you aren't going to be left dangling in mid-air. Make sure you know how to put on and adjust the harness correctly, unless you want a set of crushed nuts (a common injury with falls using safety harnesses which were not correctly adjusted beforehand). Also, the suspension point needs to be able to take to arrest force (many times your weight). -- Andrew Gabriel [email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup] |
#44
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Dealing with height on ladders.
On Jul 6, 7:26*pm, tony sayer wrote:
Well theres rope and, err rope. The one that comes with most all decent body harnesses does have a "tape" like section thats stitched together the idea is that it will rip apart thus absorbing the falling tension impact load, a conventional rope won't do that 'tho some climbing ropes are rather "stretchy" but very little over a few feet .. I guess this sort of stuff is provided on industrial rope access kit? I'm not familiar with that kind of thing (only "leisure" climbing gear). But it sounds similar to what you get on via ferrata gear, via ferrata being a kind of "serious" version of Go Ape on proper mountains. It's designed to cope with very high factor (2+) falls by the stitching pulling apart, and is indeed single-use. If, OTOH, you're anchored from above on "normal" dynamic climbing rope, you don't need this kind of thing (indeed, it shouldn't rip apart if you do) because the fall factor can't be over 1, because you can't fall more than the length of rope that is out. (If you're above the anchor it could reach but not exceed 2). If the rope runs up from an anchor/belayer at ground level to a carabiner at the top then down to you the fall factor will be lower. High factor falls on via ferrata can exist because you can slide a fair way down an anchor cable before it actually "catches" you, but your "rope" (the tails with the clips on) is quite short. I mentioned fall factor in another post - essentially 2 writes off a rope, a number of 1s can damage one, but a rope can take quite a few lower ones depending on spec. It's calculated as (length of fall before rope starts to stretch / length of rope out). Neil |
#45
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Dealing with height on ladders.
Neil Williams wrote:
I guess this sort of stuff is provided on industrial rope access kit? I'm not familiar with that kind of thing (only "leisure" climbing gear). But it sounds similar to what you get on via ferrata gear, via ferrata being a kind of "serious" version of Go Ape on proper mountains. Then again, some don't even clip on: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmDhRvvs5Xw Chris -- Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK Have dancing shoes, will ceilidh. |
#46
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Dealing with height on ladders.
On Wed, 6 Jul 2011 22:59:59 +0000 (UTC), Andrew Gabriel wrote:
I have a safety harness which works this way by having a long length of thick velcro which slowly rips apart. (At least in theory, I've never needed to try it, and it's a one-use only.) If you have to work by yourself, check the drop distance from the suspension point so you aren't going to be left dangling in mid-air. And that the fall arrest system will be well into operation before you hit the bottom. Little point in having such a device if it only starts to slow you down in the last couple of feet of a ten foot drop... Make sure you know how to put on and adjust the harness correctly, unless you want a set of crushed nuts (a common injury with falls using safety harnesses which were not correctly adjusted beforehand). Correctly adjusted *and* positioned... Also, the suspension point needs to be able to take to arrest force (many times your weight). Anchor point. Suspension point is the point on the harness that you dangle from, one would hope that a harness suspension point will take the load. B-) -- Cheers Dave. |
#47
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Dealing with height on ladders.
On Jul 7, 10:56*am, "Dave Liquorice"
wrote: And that the fall arrest system will be well into operation before you hit the bottom. Little point in having such a device if it only starts to slow you down in the last couple of feet of a ten foot drop... Those devices only slow you down in a fairly short distance anyway. If you're lead climbing at the lower end of a route and fall off, it's entirely possible that you'll only stop very close to the ground. Different situation I know, but my point is the gear is designed to cope with it, even with all 17.5 stone of me! I'm starting to wonder, actually, if the OP's ladder is of sturdy metal construction and is fixed to something solid so can't fall over (=would take a shock loading of his weight from a 0.5 to 1m-ish fall without failing) if using something like via ferrata gear (or industrial rope access equivalent) and clipping it to the nearest rung to where he's standing might provide a bit of reassurance and a fairly good chance of safely catching a short fall from which he'd always be able to get back on the ladder easily enough? Neil |
#48
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Dealing with height on ladders.
As a matter of interest, what is the greatest height
that a relatively sane man would reach on a ladder? -- Timothy Murphy e-mail: gayleard /at/ eircom.net tel: +353-86-2336090, +353-1-2842366 s-mail: School of Mathematics, Trinity College, Dublin 2, Ireland |
#49
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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Dealing with height on ladders.
In article , Timothy Murphy
scribeth thus As a matter of interest, what is the greatest height that a relatively sane man would reach on a ladder? Does that include a fireman on a turntable ladder?... -- Tony Sayer |
#50
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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Dealing with height on ladders.
On Jul 7, 12:01 am, "michael adams" wrote:
Securing ladders to furniture, beds etc isn't always a good idea as they can move around. And, after you've fallen, having a bed land on top of you could be painful! |
#51
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Dealing with height on ladders.
On 06/07/2011 16:28, michael adams wrote:
"Neil wrote in message ... On Jul 6, 4:09 pm, "michael wrote: When you fall you should be be in fairly close proximity to the scaffolding or the ladder. - Unless the cause is the ladder failing or falling over... Not where the ladder is secured at the top to a crossbar inside a window. Unless there's no convenient window where you're using the ladder, in which case you need to climb the unsecured ladder to drill the wall and fit an eyebolt before you can secure it. -- Mike Clarke |
#52
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Dealing with height on ladders.
As a matter of interest, what is the greatest height
that a relatively sane man would reach on a ladder? Does that include a fireman on a turntable ladder?... And depths on wire ladders....? -- Robin PM may be sent to rbw0{at}hotmail{dot}com |
#53
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Dealing with height on ladders.
Moving from ascent ladder to roof ladder always feels much safer IMHO
once I have tied the two together ;-) Roof ladder? What roof ladder? (I know, I know but I don't have anything long enough to reach the ridge on the main roof which is light enough for me to get there.) -- Robin PM may be sent to rbw0{at}hotmail{dot}com |
#54
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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Dealing with height on ladders.
On Jul 7, 1:02*pm, Neil Williams wrote:
I'm starting to wonder, actually, if the OP's ladder is of sturdy metal construction and is fixed to something solid so can't fall over (=would take a shock loading of his weight from a 0.5 to 1m-ish fall without failing) if using something like via ferrata gear (or industrial rope access equivalent) and clipping it to the nearest rung to where he's standing might provide a bit of reassurance and a fairly good chance of safely catching a short fall from which he'd always be able to get back on the ladder easily enough? ....of course the OP also needs to take advice from someone who can see his exact situation and maybe test it and train him in its use rather than just taking advice from an Internet bloke down the pub Neil |
#55
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Dealing with height on ladders.
Timothy Murphy wrote:
As a matter of interest, what is the greatest height that a relatively sane man would reach on a ladder? I don't think there's any limit. I've seen steeplejacks working on ladders at 400ft. |
#56
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Dealing with height on ladders.
On 06/07/2011 11:42, ARWadsworth wrote:
Although I still cannot work out how some people are able to just walk off a ladder onto a roof and make it look as easy as walking through a door. It's stepping back from the roof onto the ladder that I find more scary. -- Mike Clarke |
#57
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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Dealing with height on ladders.
In article
..com, Owain scribeth thus On Jul 7, 12:24*pm, Timothy Murphy wrote: As a matter of interest, what is the greatest height that a relatively sane man would reach on a ladder? Was Fred Dibnah relatively sane? http://images.play.com/covers/592934m.jpg Owain Steeplejack .. different class of bloke altogether;!... -- Tony Sayer |
#58
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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Dealing with height on ladders.
On Jul 7, 3:22*pm, Mike Clarke wrote:
It's stepping back from the roof onto the ladder that I find more scary. Fair point - I guess it's at that point that (if it's not secure) you stand more of a chance of kicking it down. Neil |
#59
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Dealing with height on ladders.
On 08/07/2011 18:36, John Rumm wrote:
On 07/07/2011 12:24, Timothy Murphy wrote: As a matter of interest, what is the greatest height that a relatively sane man would reach on a ladder? Most manually erected ladders (i.e. without rope extension systems) seem to top out about 35' (10.5m) - which means you could reach a bit above that safely (although not step off onto a surface etc at that height. I've been up a wooden ladder of around that height to access a temporary platform up the side of a factory. The bounce in the middle of the ladder was quite unnerving. Lying on the platform checking an instrument when it began to snow heavily was not good either. SteveW |
#60
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Dealing with height on ladders.
In article , John
Rumm scribeth thus On 07/07/2011 13:26, Steve Firth wrote: Timothy wrote: As a matter of interest, what is the greatest height that a relatively sane man would reach on a ladder? I don't think there's any limit. I've seen steeplejacks working on ladders at 400ft. Steeplejacks ladders are very different to your average "lean against the wall" class of ladder being bolted[1] to the thing you are climbing. [1] I say bolted, but don't actually know how they fixed their ladders/ Usually they have "hook" type attachments built into the structure they hook the upper part of the ladder onto then tie them together as they go higher.. Well thats what Fred Dibnah did when he did the Gasworks chimney in Cambridge.. -- Tony Sayer |
#61
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Dealing with height on ladders.
On 06/07/2011 11:42, ARWadsworth wrote:
wrote: I really need to paint the soffit board and sort some guttering problem is :- A. Cant really afford a pro and I am capable of doing the work. B. beyond around 10 feet I am crap on a ladder, even if I got higher I would be hanging on rather than doing anything. Ideally I would like to get the work done this summer although could probably wait til next year. Anyone else got this `fear` of height/ladders and how did you overcome it. I just done feel safe or comfortable 20 feet up. Is there a better type ladder I could use thinking it may be cheaper to buy something, use it, then sell on ebay. Once you have got a good ladder you will want to keep it. I never really overcame my fear of hights, I am however a lot more confident than I used to be. Maybe just practice did it for me. Although I still cannot work out how some people are able to just walk off a ladder onto a roof and make it look as easy as walking through a door. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmDhR...ature=youtu.be again? SteveW |
#62
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Dealing with height on ladders.
On 08/07/2011 21:35, Steve Walker wrote:
On 06/07/2011 11:42, ARWadsworth wrote: wrote: I really need to paint the soffit board and sort some guttering problem is :- A. Cant really afford a pro and I am capable of doing the work. B. beyond around 10 feet I am crap on a ladder, even if I got higher I would be hanging on rather than doing anything. Ideally I would like to get the work done this summer although could probably wait til next year. Anyone else got this `fear` of height/ladders and how did you overcome it. I just done feel safe or comfortable 20 feet up. Is there a better type ladder I could use thinking it may be cheaper to buy something, use it, then sell on ebay. Once you have got a good ladder you will want to keep it. I never really overcame my fear of hights, I am however a lot more confident than I used to be. Maybe just practice did it for me. Although I still cannot work out how some people are able to just walk off a ladder onto a roof and make it look as easy as walking through a door. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmDhR...ature=youtu.be again? SteveW Bugger! Someone beat me to it. SteveW |
#63
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Dealing with height on ladders.
John Rumm wrote:
Usually about now someone posts a DanO climb: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ADOK6LD70w It's no surprise that he's dead. What is surprising is that he died because of *using* a rope, rather than *not* using one! |
#64
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Dealing with height on ladders.
"John Rumm" wrote in message o.uk... On 08/07/2011 21:45, Steve Walker wrote: I never really overcame my fear of hights, I am however a lot more confident than I used to be. Maybe just practice did it for me. Although I still cannot work out how some people are able to just walk off a ladder onto a roof and make it look as easy as walking through a door. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmDhR...ature=youtu.be again? My son and I drove a road like that in Lesotho, well more like a donkey track. We had to do 5+ point turns to get around the hairpin bends with one of us out spotting just how close to the edge the wheels were. I am not good on unprotected heights, this led to a terrifying morning! Mike |
#65
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Dealing with height on ladders.
When selecting a roof ladder, I went for a fairly long one (7.6m
extended) on the grounds that it would be more versatile - however the down side is that its also heavier at about 20kg and requires a fair bit of effort to pull up and get into place on a roof while standing at the top of a ladder. (20kg may not sound like much - but its plenty to be titting about with on a ladder!) Thanks: I think you have alerted me to need to buy new ladders. My 2x17 rung push-up double ladder must be about the same size as yours but weighs around 35kg with roof hooks bolted on. It's all I can do to shift it let alone tilt it -- Robin PM may be sent to rbw0{at}hotmail{dot}com |
#66
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Dealing with height on ladders.
On Jul 9, 9:54 pm, John Rumm wrote:
I think wooden ones are worse in that respect than a decent box section ali one. Still not that many extending wood ladders in use these days it seems. I use wooden ladders most of the time when climbing around near bare overhead wiring while the power is on. Tower trucks have wooden extension ladders. However they are bolted to the truck, which weighs about 5 tons. |
#67
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Dealing with height on ladders.
On 10/07/2011 15:38, John Rumm wrote:
On 10/07/2011 10:21, Matty F wrote: On Jul 9, 9:54 pm, John wrote: I think wooden ones are worse in that respect than a decent box section ali one. Still not that many extending wood ladders in use these days it seems. I use wooden ladders most of the time when climbing around near bare overhead wiring while the power is on. Tower trucks have wooden extension ladders. However they are bolted to the truck, which weighs about 5 tons. Fibreglass is the new wood for folks working near power lines etc... .... but even heavier. Colin Bignell |
#68
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Dealing with height on ladders.
On 10/07/2011 15:38, John Rumm wrote:
On 10/07/2011 10:21, Matty F wrote: On Jul 9, 9:54 pm, John wrote: I think wooden ones are worse in that respect than a decent box section ali one. Still not that many extending wood ladders in use these days it seems. I use wooden ladders most of the time when climbing around near bare overhead wiring while the power is on. Tower trucks have wooden extension ladders. However they are bolted to the truck, which weighs about 5 tons. Fibreglass is the new wood for folks working near power lines etc... Oddly enough, my parents have only just got rid of their wooden extension ladders, which they've had since around 1980. When they originally got them, they cost a fiver from British Rail. It seems that BR bought a load of them for their overhead line maintenance crews, but the unions rejected them, insisting that aluminium ones had to be used! I must admit that we had to cut them down by half a dozen rungs to get them into the garage and even then, they were so heavy that you had to have two people to erect them safely. They are the only wooden ladders that I have ever used that were virtually as bounce free as an aluminum set, but totally impractical due to the weight. SteveW |
#69
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Dealing with height on ladders.
On Jul 8, 7:12*pm, John Rumm wrote:
i.e. rope belayed to the ground, with the last anchor at 8m, and the climber falling from 2m above the last anchor, would count as a 2m fall on 10m of rope rather than 2 on 2? Yes. It's about how much of the rope can stretch to absorb the fall, and as it's not fixed at the anchor, just running through a carabiner, all of the rope can stretch, not just the bit by the clip. Neil |
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