.... are effing good, aren't they?
Totally transformed the tedious mounting of industrial shelving brackets
onto a concrete wall.

On Sat, 11 Jun 2011 21:56:56 +0100, Grimly Curmudgeon
wrote:

... are effing good, aren't they?
Totally transformed the tedious mounting of industrial shelving brackets
onto a concrete wall.

What the hell are rawlplug concrete screws?

frame fixings?

anchor bolts?

Maybe these?

http://www.rawlplug.co.uk/index.php?...=92&Itemi d=0


--

Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:

... are effing good, aren't they?

I'd seen them recommended for fixing satellite dishes, so I used some of
the 'Lightning bolts' available from toolstation, certainly gave a nice
firm fix.

http://www.forgefix.co.uk/Products/000200040009

On Jun 12, 7:38*am, The Other Mike
wrote:
On Sat, 11 Jun 2011 21:56:56 +0100, Grimly Curmudgeon

wrote:
... are effing good, aren't they?
Totally transformed the tedious mounting of industrial shelving brackets
onto a concrete wall.

What the hell are rawlplug concrete screws? *

frame fixings?

anchor bolts?

Maybe these?

http://www.rawlplug.co.uk/index.php?...task=view&id=9...

--

Screwfix having been doing them for a few years. Originally marketing
a german product Multi-Monti, but now several manufacturers:

http://www.screwfix.com/c/screws-nai...rews/cat840074

I'm thinking of relocating a satellite dish so I'm interested in concrete
fixings. The problem I had the first time round (using straight-through
bolts and nuts) was drilling into the concrete (the wall of a sectional
garage): the inner face broke away as the drill came through. Perhaps with
these bolts I could get away with blind holes if the thickness of the wall
permits.

Bert

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember The Other Mike
saying something like:

Maybe these?

http://www.rawlplug.co.uk/index.php?...=92&Itemi d=0

That's the ones. My local stockist only had the Torx-head versions, but
that was no problem. The first one went in so easily I thought it
couldn't be a good fixing and would pull out, but no amount of pulling
and tugging on it would shift it.
For 7.5mm the drill hole is 6mm, information which was lacking in the
stockist's shop.

"Bert Coules" wrote:
I'm thinking of relocating a satellite dish so I'm interested in concrete
fixings. The problem I had the first time round (using straight-through
bolts and nuts) was drilling into the concrete (the wall of a sectional
garage): the inner face broke away as the drill came through. Perhaps
with these bolts I could get away with blind holes if the thickness of the wall permits.

I've used Monti screws for this in the past.

http://www.screwfix.com/details.htm?id=84748

Available in various sizes and types.

Steve Firth wrote:

I've used Monti screws for this in the past.

Thanks for the recommendation.

http://www.screwfix.com/details.htm?id=84748

That link's not working I'm afraid, but I should be able to find them with
the name.

Bert

Bert Coules wrote:

Steve Firth wrote:

I've used Monti screws for this in the past.

Thanks for the recommendation.

http://www.screwfix.com/details.htm?id=84748

That link's not working I'm afraid, but I should be able to find them with
the name.

That'll teach me to try using mobile phone URLs in posts to Usenet.

http://www.screwfix.com/p/multi-mont...ck-of-50/28415

Steve Firth wrote:

http://www.screwfix.com/p/multi-mont...ck-of-50/28415

Thanks Steve, that worked a treat. Looks just the thing.

Bert

Bert Coules wrote:

Steve Firth wrote:

http://www.screwfix.com/p/multi-mont...rill-size-8-pa
ck-of-50/28415

Thanks Steve, that worked a treat. Looks just the thing.

Just remember that your holes must be drilled precisely and that in
concrete a lot depends on the quality of the concrete and the aggregate
used in it. I once used those screws to screw down a floor to a concrete
sub floor at 9 inch centres. There were some flints in the concrete and
those caused terrible problems with drilling accurate holes. An SDS
drill is the best option if you have one. The holes seem to be more
accurate than ones drilled with a normal hammer action drill.

Steve Firth wrote:

An SDS drill is the best option if you have one.

I have but I'm not that experienced in its use. It always feels less
accurate to me than my conventional drills, but I suppose it's possibly just
a matter of practise. Thanks.

Bert

Bert Coules wrote:

I have but I'm not that experienced in its use. It always feels less
accurate to me than my conventional drills, but I suppose it's possibly
just a matter of practise. Thanks.

I find SDS far more accurate than hammer. You need to be firm with it as
they're heavy and powerful, a combination that can easily send it flying
off target. Push the bit fully in against the surface you're drilling
and hold the drill firmly. Start at slowest speed. You don't need to
throw all your weight against it as the pneumatics do the hammering
(rather than the ratchet & your body weight of a hammer drill) but try
and keep the point engaged or it'll dance.

--
Scott

Where are we going and why am I in this handbasket?

Scott M wrote:

Push the bit fully in against the surface you're drilling and hold the
drill firmly. Start at slowest speed.

Ah. I've been starting the drill (slowly) and only then bringing the bit
into contact with the work, as with a conventional drill. Thanks.

Bert

I wrote:

Ah. I've been starting the drill (slowly) and only then bringing the bit
into contact with the work, as with a conventional drill. Thanks.

I've just reread that, and it's nonsense. With any power drill I always
lightly hold the bit against the work before starting the motor. I really
have no idea what I was thinking of when I posted that. Apologies.

Bert

On 13 June, 00:31, "Bert Coules" wrote:
I wrote:
Ah. *I've been starting the drill (slowly) and only then bringing the bit
into contact with the work, as with a conventional drill. *Thanks.

I've just reread that, and it's nonsense. *With any power drill I always
lightly hold the bit against the work before starting the motor. *I really
have no idea what I was thinking of when I posted that. *Apologies.

Bert

I start the sds drill in normal non hammer mode and switch to hammer
action once I have a start on the hole

Paul Mc Cann

On Jun 12, 12:44*pm, The Medway Handyman
wrote:
On 12/06/2011 12:11, Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember The Other Mike
*saying something like:

Maybe these?

http://www.rawlplug.co.uk/index.php?...task=view&id=9...

That's the ones. My local stockist only had the Torx-head versions, but
that was no problem. The first one went in so easily I thought it
couldn't be a good fixing and would pull out, but no amount of pulling
and tugging on it would shift it.
For 7.5mm the drill hole is 6mm, information which was lacking in the
stockist's shop.

Toolstation sell them, free delivery £10+

http://www.toolstation.com/shop/Scre...chors/Masonry+...

Smaller range than SF but you can buy in packs of 10 rather than tie up
loadsamoney buying 100's.

The pack label calls them 'Thunderbolts' & they have the advantage that
both the pack & the bolt head are marked with the size - which is the
drill size. *So an M10 bolt uses an M10 drill bit - simples.

I use the 6 x 50mm (£2.46 for 10) for those large hanging basket
brackets people buy, fix with plugs, then call me in when it falls off :-)

2 of those & it will support my considerable bulk hanging from it.

I use the M10 x 100 (£4.83 for 10)for deck ledger plates, awnings &
fence posts attached to walls.

Incredibly strong fixing.

--
Dave - The Medway Handymanwww.medwayhandyman.co.uk

Dave - I read this thread as indicating that these bolts are only
suitable for concrete. Is that the case or do they function just as
well in brick or stone ?

Rob

fred wrote:

I start the sds drill in normal non hammer mode and switch to hammer
action once I have a start on the hole.

My extremely-cheapo SDS drill (bought for a specific non-precision job and
not much used since) goes automatically into hammer mode if you apply a
particular amount of pressure against the work. It doesn't (unless I've
looked straight past it) have a hammer on/off switch. Is that unusual?

Bert

Bert Coules wrote:

My extremely-cheapo SDS drill (bought for a specific non-precision job
and not much used since) goes automatically into hammer mode if you
apply a particular amount of pressure against the work. It doesn't
(unless I've looked straight past it) have a hammer on/off switch. Is
that unusual?

The cheaper ones only have rotary-hammer mode, more expensive ones allow
roto-stop and non-hammer modes too.

Andy Burns wrote:

The cheaper ones only have rotary-hammer mode, more expensive ones allow
roto-stop and non-hammer modes too.

Ah, that makes sense, thanks. Is roto-stop hammer-action but no rotation?
I can see that would be useful: like having a powered masonry chisel.

Bert

On Jun 13, 10:18*am, "Bert Coules" wrote:
fred wrote:
I start the sds drill in normal non hammer mode and switch to hammer
action once I have a start on the hole.

My extremely-cheapo SDS drill (bought for a specific non-precision job and
not much used since) goes automatically into hammer mode if you apply a
particular amount of pressure against the work. *It doesn't (unless I've
looked straight past it) have a hammer on/off switch. *Is that unusual?

Bert

All the ones I've used do that (when in hammer mode). I assumed the
piston thing is pistonning away all the time, but its only when you
apply pressure that the end of the drill bit is moved close enough to
the piston to get hit.
Simon.

Simon,

All the ones I've used do that (when in hammer mode). I assumed the
piston thing is pistonning away all the time, but its only when you
apply pressure that the end of the drill bit is moved close enough to
the piston to get hit.

Yes, that makes good sense. Thanks.

Bert

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember robgraham
saying something like:

Dave - I read this thread as indicating that these bolts are only
suitable for concrete. Is that the case or do they function just as
well in brick or stone ?

If you read the Rawlplug page...
"SUITABLE FOR USE IN:
Pre-drilled o 6mm:
concrete,
full and hollow brick,
clinker brick,
stone,
structural clay tile.
Without pre-drilling:
aerated concrete,
timber. "

On 13/06/2011 11:58, Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:
We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember robgraham
saying something like:

Dave - I read this thread as indicating that these bolts are only
suitable for concrete. Is that the case or do they function just as
well in brick or stone ?

If you read the Rawlplug page...
"SUITABLE FOR USE IN:
Pre-drilled o 6mm:
concrete,
full and hollow brick,
clinker brick,
stone,
structural clay tile.
Without pre-drilling:
aerated concrete,
timber. "

Wot he said :-)


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

On 13/06/2011 10:56, Bert Coules wrote:
Andy Burns wrote:

The cheaper ones only have rotary-hammer mode, more expensive ones allow
roto-stop and non-hammer modes too.

Ah, that makes sense, thanks. Is roto-stop hammer-action but no
rotation? I can see that would be useful: like having a powered masonry
chisel.

Bert


That's it exactly.

SteveW

"Bert Coules" wrote:
Andy Burns wrote:

The cheaper ones only have rotary-hammer mode, more expensive ones allow
roto-stop and non-hammer modes too.

Ah, that makes sense, thanks. Is roto-stop hammer-action but no
rotation? I can see that would be useful: like having a powered masonry chisel.

Not just a masonry chisel, you can get SDS wood chisels.

If choosing a drill with rotostop, it's essential to check how it works on
that particular drill. Some cheap ones stop the rotation but do not lock
the chuck. This means that the chisel will twist around as you work. Not a
problem with a point but a problem with flat chisels.

Thanks for that, Steve.

Bert

I've used these now (the Multi-Monti hex head version from Screwfix) and I'm
pleased with the result. The only drawback was that I had to use a small
socket-and-ratchet tool to get them in, and the final few turns took a good
bit of effort. In fact I had to withdraw my first attempt, which froze
absolutely solid with about half an inch still to go. I decided that
perhaps I hadn't drilled deeply enough so I lengthened the hole and also
used a blower to remove the dust and residue: the bolt then went fully home.

So thanks to everyone for this thread.

Bert

"Bert Coules" wrote:
I've used these now (the Multi-Monti hex head version from Screwfix) and
I'm pleased with the result. The only drawback was that I had to use a
small socket-and-ratchet tool to get them in, and the final few turns
took a good bit of effort. In fact I had to withdraw my first attempt,
which froze absolutely solid with about half an inch still to go. I
decided that perhaps I hadn't drilled deeply enough so I lengthened the
hole and also used a blower to remove the dust and residue: the bolt then went fully home.

Damn, should have warned you about that. Cleaning the hole is essential.

Steve Firth wrote:

Damn, should have warned you about
that. Cleaning the hole is essential.

I should have known. I DID know, I just forgot in the sheer wild excitement
of the moment. More thrills came when the plastic tube came adrift from my
air canister and dropped irretrievably into the hole. I thought for a moment
it might be a problem, but no: I suppose the bolt must either have crushed
or demolished it...

Thanks to you and everyone else for the comments and advice.

Bert

On 18 Jun,
"Bert Coules" wrote:

I've used these now (the Multi-Monti hex head version from Screwfix) and
I'm pleased with the result. The only drawback was that I had to use a
small socket-and-ratchet tool to get them in, and the final few turns took
a good bit of effort. In fact I had to withdraw my first attempt, which
froze absolutely solid with about half an inch still to go. I decided
that perhaps I hadn't drilled deeply enough so I lengthened the hole and
also used a blower to remove the dust and residue: the bolt then went
fully home.

I've found that if you don't remove the debris completely from the hole they
seem to bottom. If you then re-drill, the hole seems about half an inch
shorter than you originally drilled it. Re-drilling to the original depth and
clearing out as much as possible got the screws fully home without too much
torque.

--
B Thumbs
Change lycos to yahoo to reply

Re-drilling to the original depth and
clearing out as much as possible got
the screws fully home without too much
torque.

Yes, that was exactly my experience. Considering that the threads must
actually be cutting into the concrete I was surprised, in the end, by how
comparatively easy it was to get the bolts home.

It would have been even easier though with a socket I could have used in a
drill/driver. Does such a thing exist? I asked in Screwfix when I bought
the bolts but they had nothing.

Bert

Bert Coules wrote:

It would have been even easier though with a socket I could have used in
a drill/driver. Does such a thing exist?

You can get socket bits in 3/8" hex fitting

I asked in Screwfix when I
bought the bolts but they had nothing.

http://www.screwfix.com/p/forge-stee...7-pieces/76372

Andy Burns wrote:

You can get socket bits in 3/8" hex fitting.

Yes, sorry, I put that badly: Screwfix had nothing *in the size I needed*.
The bolts were 10x140mm and the heads a bit chunkier than 3/8". I was
expecting that they'd have a set with different size sockets, but no.

Still, my socket-and-ratchet tool did the job.

Bert

On 19/06/2011 09:59, Bert Coules wrote:
Andy Burns wrote:

You can get socket bits in 3/8" hex fitting.

Yes, sorry, I put that badly: Screwfix had nothing *in the size I
needed*. The bolts were 10x140mm and the heads a bit chunkier than 3/8".
I was expecting that they'd have a set with different size sockets, but no.

Still, my socket-and-ratchet tool did the job.

You can get adaptors that fit either the hex/chuck on a drill driver or
impact driver - or the SDS drill. The other end then fits a standard socket.

http://www.toolstation.com/shop/Auto.../sd2938/p82530

--
Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember "Bert Coules"
saying something like:

I've used these now (the Multi-Monti hex head version from Screwfix) and I'm
pleased with the result.

I was sceptical at first, but am now convinced and will be using them a
lot more. They're just so easy, make a fiddly job into a simple process
and are much better than hammer-in fixers for the type of stuff I use
them for.

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember "Bert Coules"
saying something like:

It would have been even easier though with a socket I could have used in a
drill/driver. Does such a thing exist?

That's exactly what I use on hex-head screws (the concrete fixers had
Torx heads, so it was easy enough to simply put a Torx driver in the
drill). For hex-head I have a small kit with a 1/4" drive set of
sockets, but the key piece is a hex shank to 1/4" drive tool, which
allows mounting of the sockets onto a power drill. I picked that up from
Aldi a couple of years ago and it's been dead handy for exactly this
sort of thing.

Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember "Bert Coules"
saying something like:

I've used these now (the Multi-Monti hex head version from Screwfix) and I'm
pleased with the result.

I was sceptical at first, but am now convinced and will be using them a
lot more. They're just so easy, make a fiddly job into a simple process
and are much better than hammer-in fixers for the type of stuff I use
them for.

Same here, also I feel that using them on "heritage" brickwork is
slightly kinder to the building and it's possible to remove and re-mount
things a few times before the screw widens the hole so far that it can't
be used. At that point one can either use the next sized screw up or
used a plugged anchor. Less damage done than Rawlbolts which IMO are
brutal and can split brick/block if the user is "over enthusiastic".

Thanks to Steve and Grimly Curmudgeon for the replies. I must look out for
the sort of sockets you both mention. I must have misesd them (or simply
didn't see the need then) when they were in my local Aldi.

Bert

On 19/06/2011 12:37, Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:
We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember "Bert Coules"
saying something like:

It would have been even easier though with a socket I could have used in a
drill/driver. Does such a thing exist?

That's exactly what I use on hex-head screws (the concrete fixers had
Torx heads, so it was easy enough to simply put a Torx driver in the
drill). For hex-head I have a small kit with a 1/4" drive set of
sockets, but the key piece is a hex shank to 1/4" drive tool, which
allows mounting of the sockets onto a power drill. I picked that up from
Aldi a couple of years ago and it's been dead handy for exactly this
sort of thing.

I have a Halford Pro socket set and the female end of the 1/4" square
drive extension just fits into a 13mm chuck, which I have found very
useful at times.

SteveW