[Charlie]

Got a call from my tenant saying the "the switch in the fuse box keeps
repeatedly tripping". It was just the main downstairs ring that was
affected, the other circuits and lights were ok. Got her to unplug
all the devices and she said the problem was still there.

As I don't live that close to the property I decided to call an
electrician to have a look. He said that he was not able to identify
the problem but had bypassed the RCD to restore power temporarily
until a permanent fix could be found. He also emailed me a quote for
£600 for two man days work to identify the problem.

I decided to visit the property last night just to make sure I was
happy the tennant and the house was safe. I tested a few of the
sockets with a socket tester and it showed that none of them was
earthed. I also managed to establish that the fridge which is located
in the middle of the kitchen "island" was not receiving any power.

IIRC when I tiled the kitchen floor there is a spur to the island from
a JB under one of the tiles (don't ask - I didn't want to mess around
with the existing electrics). So maybe there could be problem with the
JB surrounded by tile cement / concrete?

A couple of questions do I have two separate problems here?
1. No power to the kitchen "island"
2. An earthed live or neutral some on the ring (or possibly even an
appliance that wasn't unplugged). I guess it's possible that there's
a spur that we don't know about that something is plugged into, or a
mouse has chewed through a wire

Are the problems are related?
Is the quote from the electrician reasonable?

Any help gratefully received

[Tabby]

On Apr 6, 4:51*pm, Charlie wrote:

Got a call from my tenant saying the "the switch in the fuse box keeps
repeatedly tripping". *It was just the main downstairs ring that was
affected, the other circuits and lights were ok. *Got her to unplug
all the devices and she said the problem was still there.

As I don't live that close to the property I decided to call an
electrician to have a look. He said that he was not able to identify
the problem but had bypassed the RCD to restore power temporarily
until a permanent fix could be found. *He also emailed me a quote for
£600 for two man days work to identify the problem.

I decided to visit the property last night just to make sure I was
happy the tennant and the house was safe. I tested a few of the
sockets with a socket tester and it showed that none of them was
earthed. *I also managed to establish that the fridge which is located
in the middle of the kitchen "island" was not receiving any power.

IIRC when I tiled the kitchen floor there is a spur to the island from
a JB under one of the tiles (don't ask - I didn't want to *mess around
with the existing electrics). So maybe there could be problem with the
JB surrounded by tile cement / concrete?

A couple of questions do I have two separate problems here?
1. No power to the kitchen "island"
2. An earthed live or neutral some on the ring (or possibly even an
appliance that wasn't unplugged). *I guess it's possible that there's
a spur that we don't know about that something is plugged into, or a
mouse has chewed through a wire

Are the problems are related?
Is the quote from the electrician reasonable?

Any help gratefully received


This is exactly the sort of situation that puts landlords in prison.
Grow up, and provide your tenant with something legal & safe. And do
it now.

Re payment, I wouldnt pay the idiot a penny. What he's done is
dangerous, illegal and remarkably stupid. I'd tell him to sue me, but
point out that any court would be a lot more interested in what he'd
done than any payment due.

The first thing I'd do is identify the unsafe circuit and disconnect
it.


NT

[A.Lee]

Charlie wrote:


A couple of questions do I have two separate problems here?
1. No power to the kitchen "island"
2. An earthed live or neutral some on the ring (or possibly even an
appliance that wasn't unplugged). I guess it's possible that there's
a spur that we don't know about that something is plugged into, or a
mouse has chewed through a wire

Are the problems are related?
Is the quote from the electrician reasonable?


It could be any number of things, but it is pretty certain to be related
to the kitchen ring. Cable snapped/worn through, cable come undoen in a
socket and touching another terminal. Even a fault at the CU end.
A few tests on the circuit would soon pin down the fault, or the general
area in which to look.
£600 is way over the top in my view.
That price would buy a consumer unit change, and new socket faces and
switches in the kitchen.

Where are you?
There are some electricians on here who may be able to help.
Alan.
--
To reply by e-mail, change the ' + ' to 'plus'.

[Charlie]

On Apr 6, 5:12*pm, Tabby wrote:
On Apr 6, 4:51*pm, Charlie wrote:









Got a call from my tenant saying the "the switch in the fuse box keeps
repeatedly tripping". *It was just the main downstairs ring that was
affected, the other circuits and lights were ok. *Got her to unplug
all the devices and she said the problem was still there.

As I don't live that close to the property I decided to call an
electrician to have a look. He said that he was not able to identify
the problem but had bypassed the RCD to restore power temporarily
until a permanent fix could be found. *He also emailed me a quote for
£600 for two man days work to identify the problem.

I decided to visit the property last night just to make sure I was
happy the tennant and the house was safe. I tested a few of the
sockets with a socket tester and it showed that none of them was
earthed. *I also managed to establish that the fridge which is located
in the middle of the kitchen "island" was not receiving any power.

IIRC when I tiled the kitchen floor there is a spur to the island from
a JB under one of the tiles (don't ask - I didn't want to *mess around
with the existing electrics). So maybe there could be problem with the
JB surrounded by tile cement / concrete?

A couple of questions do I have two separate problems here?
1. No power to the kitchen "island"
2. An earthed live or neutral some on the ring (or possibly even an
appliance that wasn't unplugged). *I guess it's possible that there's
a spur that we don't know about that something is plugged into, or a
mouse has chewed through a wire

Are the problems are related?
Is the quote from the electrician reasonable?

Any help gratefully received

This is exactly the sort of situation that puts landlords in prison.
Grow up, and provide your tenant with something legal & safe. And do
it now.

Re payment, I wouldnt pay the idiot a penny. What he's done is
dangerous, illegal and remarkably stupid. I'd tell him to sue me, but
point out that any court would be a lot more interested in what he'd
done than any payment due.

The first thing I'd do is identify the unsafe circuit and disconnect
it.

NT

Tabby,

Thanks for your post, glad I went up to check now. I'll get another
electrician first thing - just hope he's more reputable then the first
one.
Can I just clarify - how the other electrician left it (with nothing
earthed). That is completely illegal?
I'm not an electrician and certainly no expert, hence why I posted
here.

Thanks for you advice

Charlie

[Charlie]

On Apr 6, 5:15*pm, (A.Lee) wrote:
Charlie wrote:
A couple of questions do I have two separate problems here?
1. No power to the kitchen "island"
2. An earthed live or neutral some on the ring (or possibly even an
appliance that wasn't unplugged). *I guess it's possible that there's
a spur that we don't know about that something is plugged into, or a
mouse has chewed through a wire

Are the problems are related?
Is the quote from the electrician reasonable?

It could be any number of things, but it is pretty certain to be related
to the kitchen ring. Cable snapped/worn through, cable come undoen in a
socket and touching another terminal. Even a fault at the CU end.
A few tests on the circuit would soon pin down the fault, or the general
area in which to look.
600 is way over the top in my view.
That price would buy a consumer unit change, and new socket faces and
switches in the kitchen.

Where are you?
There are some electricians on here who may be able to help.
Alan.
--
To reply by e-mail, change the ' + ' to 'plus'.

Alan,

My postcode is AL5 if anyone wants to private message me.
Otherwise I'll get someone in first thing. I appreciate the advice,
at least I know what I should be expecting the electrician to do.

Do you think there are two separate problems (no power to the "island"
& a separate earth to live/neutral somewhere) or is it most likely to
be one fault causing both?

Thanks

Charlie

[ARWadsworth]

Charlie wrote:
On Apr 6, 5:12 pm, Tabby wrote:
On Apr 6, 4:51 pm, Charlie wrote:









Got a call from my tenant saying the "the switch in the fuse box
keeps repeatedly tripping". It was just the main downstairs ring
that was affected, the other circuits and lights were ok. Got her
to unplug all the devices and she said the problem was still there.

As I don't live that close to the property I decided to call an
electrician to have a look. He said that he was not able to identify
the problem but had bypassed the RCD to restore power temporarily
until a permanent fix could be found. He also emailed me a quote for
£600 for two man days work to identify the problem.

I decided to visit the property last night just to make sure I was
happy the tennant and the house was safe. I tested a few of the
sockets with a socket tester and it showed that none of them was
earthed. I also managed to establish that the fridge which is
located in the middle of the kitchen "island" was not receiving any
power.

IIRC when I tiled the kitchen floor there is a spur to the island
from a JB under one of the tiles (don't ask - I didn't want to mess
around with the existing electrics). So maybe there could be
problem with the JB surrounded by tile cement / concrete?

A couple of questions do I have two separate problems here?
1. No power to the kitchen "island"
2. An earthed live or neutral some on the ring (or possibly even an
appliance that wasn't unplugged). I guess it's possible that there's
a spur that we don't know about that something is plugged into, or a
mouse has chewed through a wire

Are the problems are related?
Is the quote from the electrician reasonable?

Any help gratefully received

This is exactly the sort of situation that puts landlords in prison.
Grow up, and provide your tenant with something legal & safe. And do
it now.

Re payment, I wouldnt pay the idiot a penny. What he's done is
dangerous, illegal and remarkably stupid. I'd tell him to sue me, but
point out that any court would be a lot more interested in what he'd
done than any payment due.

The first thing I'd do is identify the unsafe circuit and disconnect
it.

NT

Tabby,

Thanks for your post, glad I went up to check now. I'll get another
electrician first thing - just hope he's more reputable then the first
one.
Can I just clarify - how the other electrician left it (with nothing
earthed). That is completely illegal?
I'm not an electrician and certainly no expert, hence why I posted
here.

Thanks for you advice

Charlie

I would have expected the electrician to have discovered that the sockets
were not earthed and isolated that circuit.


--
Adam

[ARWadsworth]

Tabby wrote:
On Apr 6, 4:51 pm, Charlie wrote:

Got a call from my tenant saying the "the switch in the fuse box
keeps repeatedly tripping". It was just the main downstairs ring
that was affected, the other circuits and lights were ok. Got her to
unplug all the devices and she said the problem was still there.

As I don't live that close to the property I decided to call an
electrician to have a look. He said that he was not able to identify
the problem but had bypassed the RCD to restore power temporarily
until a permanent fix could be found. He also emailed me a quote for
£600 for two man days work to identify the problem.

I decided to visit the property last night just to make sure I was
happy the tennant and the house was safe. I tested a few of the
sockets with a socket tester and it showed that none of them was
earthed. I also managed to establish that the fridge which is located
in the middle of the kitchen "island" was not receiving any power.

IIRC when I tiled the kitchen floor there is a spur to the island
from a JB under one of the tiles (don't ask - I didn't want to mess
around with the existing electrics). So maybe there could be problem
with the JB surrounded by tile cement / concrete?

A couple of questions do I have two separate problems here?
1. No power to the kitchen "island"
2. An earthed live or neutral some on the ring (or possibly even an
appliance that wasn't unplugged). I guess it's possible that there's
a spur that we don't know about that something is plugged into, or a
mouse has chewed through a wire

Are the problems are related?
Is the quote from the electrician reasonable?

Any help gratefully received


This is exactly the sort of situation that puts landlords in prison.
Grow up, and provide your tenant with something legal & safe. And do
it now.

To be fair, he phoned an electrician. What more do you want him to do?

--
Adam

[Charlie]

On Apr 6, 9:21*pm, "ARWadsworth"
wrote:
Charlie wrote:
On Apr 6, 5:12 pm, Tabby wrote:
On Apr 6, 4:51 pm, Charlie wrote:

Got a call from my tenant saying the "the switch in the fuse box
keeps repeatedly tripping". It was just the main downstairs ring
that was affected, the other circuits and lights were ok. Got her
to unplug all the devices and she said the problem was still there.

As I don't live that close to the property I decided to call an
electrician to have a look. He said that he was not able to identify
the problem but had bypassed the RCD to restore power temporarily
until a permanent fix could be found. He also emailed me a quote for
£600 for two man days work to identify the problem.

I decided to visit the property last night just to make sure I was
happy the tennant and the house was safe. I tested a few of the
sockets with a socket tester and it showed that none of them was
earthed. I also managed to establish that the fridge which is
located in the middle of the kitchen "island" was not receiving any
power.

IIRC when I tiled the kitchen floor there is a spur to the island
from a JB under one of the tiles (don't ask - I didn't want to mess
around with the existing electrics). So maybe there could be
problem with the JB surrounded by tile cement / concrete?

A couple of questions do I have two separate problems here?
1. No power to the kitchen "island"
2. An earthed live or neutral some on the ring (or possibly even an
appliance that wasn't unplugged). I guess it's possible that there's
a spur that we don't know about that something is plugged into, or a
mouse has chewed through a wire

Are the problems are related?
Is the quote from the electrician reasonable?

Any help gratefully received

This is exactly the sort of situation that puts landlords in prison.
Grow up, and provide your tenant with something legal & safe. And do
it now.

Re payment, I wouldnt pay the idiot a penny. What he's done is
dangerous, illegal and remarkably stupid. I'd tell him to sue me, but
point out that any court would be a lot more interested in what he'd
done than any payment due.

The first thing I'd do is identify the unsafe circuit and disconnect
it.

NT

Tabby,

Thanks for your post, glad I went up to check now. I'll get another
electrician first thing - just hope he's more reputable then the first
one.
Can I just clarify - how the other electrician left it (with nothing
earthed). *That is completely illegal?
I'm not an electrician and certainly no expert, hence why I posted
here.

Thanks for you advice

Charlie

I would have expected the electrician to have discovered that the sockets
were not earthed and isolated that circuit.

--
Adam

I presume the sockets were earthed prior to the fault arising. My
understanding is that they are now not earthed following his visit.
I'm not sure exactly what he did. Nothing visible on the CU. Did he
just disconnect the circuit to prevent the RCD from tripping or did he
just disconnect the RCD?

Charlie

[Andrew Mawson]

"Charlie" wrote in message
...
On Apr 6, 5:15 pm, (A.Lee) wrote:
Charlie wrote:
A couple of questions do I have two separate problems here?
1. No power to the kitchen "island"
2. An earthed live or neutral some on the ring (or possibly even
an
appliance that wasn't unplugged). I guess it's possible that
there's
a spur that we don't know about that something is plugged into, or
a
mouse has chewed through a wire

Are the problems are related?
Is the quote from the electrician reasonable?

It could be any number of things, but it is pretty certain to be
related
to the kitchen ring. Cable snapped/worn through, cable come undoen
in a
socket and touching another terminal. Even a fault at the CU end.
A few tests on the circuit would soon pin down the fault, or the
general
area in which to look.
600 is way over the top in my view.
That price would buy a consumer unit change, and new socket faces
and
switches in the kitchen.

Where are you?
There are some electricians on here who may be able to help.
Alan.
--
To reply by e-mail, change the ' + ' to 'plus'.

Alan,

My postcode is AL5 if anyone wants to private message me.
Otherwise I'll get someone in first thing. I appreciate the advice,
at least I know what I should be expecting the electrician to do.

Do you think there are two separate problems (no power to the "island"
& a separate earth to live/neutral somewhere) or is it most likely to
be one fault causing both?

Thanks

Charlie

For your own protection when solved you need a periodic inspection
certificate, and renew it each year. Come the (hopefully never
happening) fatality the court will look at you as having horns and a
forked tongue - as a landlord you need to be whiter than white. I
speak as a landlord myself!

AWEM

[ARWadsworth]

Andrew Mawson wrote:
"Charlie" wrote in message
...
On Apr 6, 5:15 pm, (A.Lee) wrote:
Charlie wrote:
A couple of questions do I have two separate problems here?
1. No power to the kitchen "island"
2. An earthed live or neutral some on the ring (or possibly even an
appliance that wasn't unplugged). I guess it's possible that there's
a spur that we don't know about that something is plugged into, or a
mouse has chewed through a wire

Are the problems are related?
Is the quote from the electrician reasonable?

It could be any number of things, but it is pretty certain to be
related to the kitchen ring. Cable snapped/worn through, cable come
undoen in a socket and touching another terminal. Even a fault at
the CU end. A few tests on the circuit would soon pin down the
fault, or the general area in which to look.
600 is way over the top in my view.
That price would buy a consumer unit change, and new socket faces and
switches in the kitchen.

Where are you?
There are some electricians on here who may be able to help.
Alan.
--
To reply by e-mail, change the ' + ' to 'plus'.

Alan,

My postcode is AL5 if anyone wants to private message me.
Otherwise I'll get someone in first thing. I appreciate the advice,
at least I know what I should be expecting the electrician to do.

Do you think there are two separate problems (no power to the "island"
& a separate earth to live/neutral somewhere) or is it most likely to
be one fault causing both?

Thanks

Charlie

For your own protection when solved you need a periodic inspection
certificate, and renew it each year. Come the (hopefully never
happening) fatality the court will look at you as having horns and a
forked tongue - as a landlord you need to be whiter than white. I
speak as a landlord myself!


How can you justify having an annual PIR?

--
Adam

[ARWadsworth]

Charlie wrote:
On Apr 6, 9:21 pm, "ARWadsworth"
wrote:
Charlie wrote:
On Apr 6, 5:12 pm, Tabby wrote:
On Apr 6, 4:51 pm, Charlie wrote:

Got a call from my tenant saying the "the switch in the fuse box
keeps repeatedly tripping". It was just the main downstairs ring
that was affected, the other circuits and lights were ok. Got her
to unplug all the devices and she said the problem was still
there.

As I don't live that close to the property I decided to call an
electrician to have a look. He said that he was not able to
identify the problem but had bypassed the RCD to restore power
temporarily until a permanent fix could be found. He also emailed
me a quote for £600 for two man days work to identify the problem.

I decided to visit the property last night just to make sure I was
happy the tennant and the house was safe. I tested a few of the
sockets with a socket tester and it showed that none of them was
earthed. I also managed to establish that the fridge which is
located in the middle of the kitchen "island" was not receiving
any power.

IIRC when I tiled the kitchen floor there is a spur to the island
from a JB under one of the tiles (don't ask - I didn't want to
mess around with the existing electrics). So maybe there could be
problem with the JB surrounded by tile cement / concrete?

A couple of questions do I have two separate problems here?
1. No power to the kitchen "island"
2. An earthed live or neutral some on the ring (or possibly even
an appliance that wasn't unplugged). I guess it's possible that
there's a spur that we don't know about that something is plugged
into, or a mouse has chewed through a wire

Are the problems are related?
Is the quote from the electrician reasonable?

Any help gratefully received

This is exactly the sort of situation that puts landlords in
prison. Grow up, and provide your tenant with something legal &
safe. And do it now.

Re payment, I wouldnt pay the idiot a penny. What he's done is
dangerous, illegal and remarkably stupid. I'd tell him to sue me,
but point out that any court would be a lot more interested in
what he'd done than any payment due.

The first thing I'd do is identify the unsafe circuit and
disconnect it.

NT

Tabby,

Thanks for your post, glad I went up to check now. I'll get another
electrician first thing - just hope he's more reputable then the
first one.
Can I just clarify - how the other electrician left it (with nothing
earthed). That is completely illegal?
I'm not an electrician and certainly no expert, hence why I posted
here.

Thanks for you advice

Charlie

I would have expected the electrician to have discovered that the
sockets were not earthed and isolated that circuit.

--
Adam

I presume the sockets were earthed prior to the fault arising. My
understanding is that they are now not earthed following his visit.
I'm not sure exactly what he did. Nothing visible on the CU. Did he
just disconnect the circuit to prevent the RCD from tripping or did he
just disconnect the RCD?

Without looking inside the CU I do not know!

He might have disconnected the earths from the kitchen ring inside the CU
(and if he has I would like to see him shot)

--
Adam

[Charlie]

On Apr 6, 9:44*pm, "Andrew Mawson"
wrote:
"Charlie" wrote in message

...
On Apr 6, 5:15 pm, (A.Lee) wrote:





Charlie wrote:
A couple of questions do I have two separate problems here?
1. No power to the kitchen "island"
2. An earthed live or neutral some on the ring (or possibly even
an
appliance that wasn't unplugged). I guess it's possible that
there's
a spur that we don't know about that something is plugged into, or
a
mouse has chewed through a wire

Are the problems are related?
Is the quote from the electrician reasonable?

It could be any number of things, but it is pretty certain to be
related
to the kitchen ring. Cable snapped/worn through, cable come undoen
in a
socket and touching another terminal. Even a fault at the CU end.
A few tests on the circuit would soon pin down the fault, or the
general
area in which to look.
600 is way over the top in my view.
That price would buy a consumer unit change, and new socket faces
and
switches in the kitchen.

Where are you?
There are some electricians on here who may be able to help.
Alan.
--
To reply by e-mail, change the ' + ' to 'plus'.

Alan,

My postcode is AL5 if anyone wants to private message me.
Otherwise I'll get someone in first thing. *I appreciate the advice,
at least I know what I should be expecting the electrician to do.

Do you think there are two separate problems (no power to the "island"
& a separate earth to live/neutral somewhere) or is it most likely to
be one fault causing both?

Thanks

Charlie

For your own protection when solved you need a periodic inspection
certificate, and renew it each year. Come the (hopefully never
happening) fatality the court will look at you as having horns and a
forked tongue - as a landlord you need to be whiter than white. I
speak as a landlord myself!

AWEM

Sure makes sense.

[Charlie]

On Apr 6, 9:52*pm, "ARWadsworth"
wrote:
Charlie wrote:
On Apr 6, 9:21 pm, "ARWadsworth"
wrote:
Charlie wrote:
On Apr 6, 5:12 pm, Tabby wrote:
On Apr 6, 4:51 pm, Charlie wrote:

Got a call from my tenant saying the "the switch in the fuse box
keeps repeatedly tripping". It was just the main downstairs ring
that was affected, the other circuits and lights were ok. Got her
to unplug all the devices and she said the problem was still
there.

As I don't live that close to the property I decided to call an
electrician to have a look. He said that he was not able to
identify the problem but had bypassed the RCD to restore power
temporarily until a permanent fix could be found. He also emailed
me a quote for £600 for two man days work to identify the problem..

I decided to visit the property last night just to make sure I was
happy the tennant and the house was safe. I tested a few of the
sockets with a socket tester and it showed that none of them was
earthed. I also managed to establish that the fridge which is
located in the middle of the kitchen "island" was not receiving
any power.

IIRC when I tiled the kitchen floor there is a spur to the island
from a JB under one of the tiles (don't ask - I didn't want to
mess around with the existing electrics). So maybe there could be
problem with the JB surrounded by tile cement / concrete?

A couple of questions do I have two separate problems here?
1. No power to the kitchen "island"
2. An earthed live or neutral some on the ring (or possibly even
an appliance that wasn't unplugged). I guess it's possible that
there's a spur that we don't know about that something is plugged
into, or a mouse has chewed through a wire

Are the problems are related?
Is the quote from the electrician reasonable?

Any help gratefully received

This is exactly the sort of situation that puts landlords in
prison. Grow up, and provide your tenant with something legal &
safe. And do it now.

Re payment, I wouldnt pay the idiot a penny. What he's done is
dangerous, illegal and remarkably stupid. I'd tell him to sue me,
but point out that any court would be a lot more interested in
what he'd done than any payment due.

The first thing I'd do is identify the unsafe circuit and
disconnect it.

NT

Tabby,

Thanks for your post, glad I went up to check now. I'll get another
electrician first thing - just hope he's more reputable then the
first one.
Can I just clarify - how the other electrician left it (with nothing
earthed). That is completely illegal?
I'm not an electrician and certainly no expert, hence why I posted
here.

Thanks for you advice

Charlie

I would have expected the electrician to have discovered that the
sockets were not earthed and isolated that circuit.

--
Adam

I presume the sockets were earthed prior to the fault arising. *My
understanding is that they are now not earthed following his visit.
I'm not sure exactly what he did. *Nothing visible on the CU. *Did he
just disconnect the circuit to prevent the RCD from tripping or did he
just disconnect the RCD?

Without looking inside the CU I do not
Ok, just interested to know what possible/likely. Presumably both
possible.


He might have disconnected the earths from the kitchen ring inside the CU
(and if he has I would like to see him shot)

--
Adam

Yeah, I was pretty surprised to find that the downstairs ring wasn't
earthed.
Didn't seem right.

[ARWadsworth]

Charlie wrote:
On Apr 6, 9:52 pm, "ARWadsworth"
wrote:
Charlie wrote:
On Apr 6, 9:21 pm, "ARWadsworth"
wrote:
Charlie wrote:
On Apr 6, 5:12 pm, Tabby wrote:
On Apr 6, 4:51 pm, Charlie wrote:

Got a call from my tenant saying the "the switch in the fuse box
keeps repeatedly tripping". It was just the main downstairs ring
that was affected, the other circuits and lights were ok. Got
her to unplug all the devices and she said the problem was still
there.

As I don't live that close to the property I decided to call an
electrician to have a look. He said that he was not able to
identify the problem but had bypassed the RCD to restore power
temporarily until a permanent fix could be found. He also
emailed me a quote for £600 for two man days work to identify
the problem.

I decided to visit the property last night just to make sure I
was happy the tennant and the house was safe. I tested a few of
the sockets with a socket tester and it showed that none of
them was earthed. I also managed to establish that the fridge
which is located in the middle of the kitchen "island" was not
receiving any power.

IIRC when I tiled the kitchen floor there is a spur to the
island from a JB under one of the tiles (don't ask - I didn't
want to mess around with the existing electrics). So maybe
there could be problem with the JB surrounded by tile cement /
concrete?

A couple of questions do I have two separate problems here?
1. No power to the kitchen "island"
2. An earthed live or neutral some on the ring (or possibly even
an appliance that wasn't unplugged). I guess it's possible that
there's a spur that we don't know about that something is
plugged into, or a mouse has chewed through a wire

Are the problems are related?
Is the quote from the electrician reasonable?

Any help gratefully received

This is exactly the sort of situation that puts landlords in
prison. Grow up, and provide your tenant with something legal &
safe. And do it now.

Re payment, I wouldnt pay the idiot a penny. What he's done is
dangerous, illegal and remarkably stupid. I'd tell him to sue me,
but point out that any court would be a lot more interested in
what he'd done than any payment due.

The first thing I'd do is identify the unsafe circuit and
disconnect it.

NT

Tabby,

Thanks for your post, glad I went up to check now. I'll get
another electrician first thing - just hope he's more reputable
then the first one.
Can I just clarify - how the other electrician left it (with
nothing earthed). That is completely illegal?
I'm not an electrician and certainly no expert, hence why I posted
here.

Thanks for you advice

Charlie

I would have expected the electrician to have discovered that the
sockets were not earthed and isolated that circuit.

--
Adam

I presume the sockets were earthed prior to the fault arising. My
understanding is that they are now not earthed following his visit.
I'm not sure exactly what he did. Nothing visible on the CU. Did he
just disconnect the circuit to prevent the RCD from tripping or did
he just disconnect the RCD?

Without looking inside the CU I do not
Ok, just interested to know what possible/likely. Presumably both
possible.

A bypassed RCD would still leave the circuits that it powers ON if the RCD
is turned off.


He might have disconnected the earths from the kitchen ring inside
the CU (and if he has I would like to see him shot)

Yeah, I was pretty surprised to find that the downstairs ring wasn't
earthed.
Didn't seem right.

Just checking. Is there an RCD or is it an MCB that was tripping? There is a
big important difference.


--
Adam

[Charlie]

On Apr 6, 10:54*pm, "ARWadsworth"
wrote:
Charlie wrote:
On Apr 6, 9:52 pm, "ARWadsworth"
wrote:
Charlie wrote:
On Apr 6, 9:21 pm, "ARWadsworth"
wrote:
Charlie wrote:
On Apr 6, 5:12 pm, Tabby wrote:
On Apr 6, 4:51 pm, Charlie wrote:

Got a call from my tenant saying the "the switch in the fuse box
keeps repeatedly tripping". It was just the main downstairs ring
that was affected, the other circuits and lights were ok. Got
her to unplug all the devices and she said the problem was still
there.

As I don't live that close to the property I decided to call an
electrician to have a look. He said that he was not able to
identify the problem but had bypassed the RCD to restore power
temporarily until a permanent fix could be found. He also
emailed me a quote for 600 for two man days work to identify
the problem.

I decided to visit the property last night just to make sure I
was happy the tennant and the house was safe. I tested a few of
the sockets with a socket tester and it showed that none of
them was earthed. I also managed to establish that the fridge
which is located in the middle of the kitchen "island" was not
receiving any power.

IIRC when I tiled the kitchen floor there is a spur to the
island from a JB under one of the tiles (don't ask - I didn't
want to mess around with the existing electrics). So maybe
there could be problem with the JB surrounded by tile cement /
concrete?

A couple of questions do I have two separate problems here?
1. No power to the kitchen "island"
2. An earthed live or neutral some on the ring (or possibly even
an appliance that wasn't unplugged). I guess it's possible that
there's a spur that we don't know about that something is
plugged into, or a mouse has chewed through a wire

Are the problems are related?
Is the quote from the electrician reasonable?

Any help gratefully received

This is exactly the sort of situation that puts landlords in
prison. Grow up, and provide your tenant with something legal &
safe. And do it now.

Re payment, I wouldnt pay the idiot a penny. What he's done is
dangerous, illegal and remarkably stupid. I'd tell him to sue me,
but point out that any court would be a lot more interested in
what he'd done than any payment due.

The first thing I'd do is identify the unsafe circuit and
disconnect it.

NT

Tabby,

Thanks for your post, glad I went up to check now. I'll get
another electrician first thing - just hope he's more reputable
then the first one.
Can I just clarify - how the other electrician left it (with
nothing earthed). That is completely illegal?
I'm not an electrician and certainly no expert, hence why I posted
here.

Thanks for you advice

Charlie

I would have expected the electrician to have discovered that the
sockets were not earthed and isolated that circuit.

--
Adam

I presume the sockets were earthed prior to the fault arising. My
understanding is that they are now not earthed following his visit.
I'm not sure exactly what he did. Nothing visible on the CU. Did he
just disconnect the circuit to prevent the RCD from tripping or did
he just disconnect the RCD?

Without looking inside the CU I do not
Ok, just interested to know what possible/likely. Presumably both
possible.

A bypassed RCD would still leave the circuits that it powers ON if the RCD
is turned off.

He might have disconnected the earths from the kitchen ring inside
the CU (and if he has I would like to see him shot)
Yeah, I was pretty surprised to find that the downstairs ring wasn't
earthed.
Didn't seem right.

Just checking. Is there an RCD or is it an MCB that was tripping? There is a
big important difference.

--
Adam

He said it was the RCD, agreed big difference if it was the MCB

[Tabby]

On Apr 6, 9:15*pm, Charlie wrote:
On Apr 6, 5:12*pm, Tabby wrote:



On Apr 6, 4:51*pm, Charlie wrote:

Got a call from my tenant saying the "the switch in the fuse box keeps
repeatedly tripping". *It was just the main downstairs ring that was
affected, the other circuits and lights were ok. *Got her to unplug
all the devices and she said the problem was still there.

As I don't live that close to the property I decided to call an
electrician to have a look. He said that he was not able to identify
the problem but had bypassed the RCD to restore power temporarily
until a permanent fix could be found. *He also emailed me a quote for
£600 for two man days work to identify the problem.

I decided to visit the property last night just to make sure I was
happy the tennant and the house was safe. I tested a few of the
sockets with a socket tester and it showed that none of them was
earthed. *I also managed to establish that the fridge which is located
in the middle of the kitchen "island" was not receiving any power.

IIRC when I tiled the kitchen floor there is a spur to the island from
a JB under one of the tiles (don't ask - I didn't want to *mess around
with the existing electrics). So maybe there could be problem with the
JB surrounded by tile cement / concrete?

A couple of questions do I have two separate problems here?
1. No power to the kitchen "island"
2. An earthed live or neutral some on the ring (or possibly even an
appliance that wasn't unplugged). *I guess it's possible that there's
a spur that we don't know about that something is plugged into, or a
mouse has chewed through a wire

Are the problems are related?
Is the quote from the electrician reasonable?

Any help gratefully received

This is exactly the sort of situation that puts landlords in prison.
Grow up, and provide your tenant with something legal & safe. And do
it now.

Re payment, I wouldnt pay the idiot a penny. What he's done is
dangerous, illegal and remarkably stupid. I'd tell him to sue me, but
point out that any court would be a lot more interested in what he'd
done than any payment due.

The first thing I'd do is identify the unsafe circuit and disconnect
it.

NT

Tabby,

Thanks for your post, glad I went up to check now. I'll get another
electrician first thing - just hope he's more reputable then the first
one.
Can I just clarify - how the other electrician left it (with nothing
earthed). *That is completely illegal?
I'm not an electrician and certainly no expert, hence why I posted
here.

Thanks for you advice

Charlie

If the info you posted is accurate, what he's done is criminal and
dangerous. An RCD tripping usually means there's a live to earth
fault. What stops people getting fried in these situations are
a) the earth wiring
b) the RCD
And IIUC this berk's simply disconnected/bypassed both those!

In all seriousness, if you dont act ASAP on this situation your tenant
can get a nasty shock, and if they're unlucky die, and you could land
in jail.


NT

[Tabby]

On Apr 6, 9:23*pm, "ARWadsworth"
wrote:
Tabby wrote:
On Apr 6, 4:51 pm, Charlie wrote:

Got a call from my tenant saying the "the switch in the fuse box
keeps repeatedly tripping". It was just the main downstairs ring
that was affected, the other circuits and lights were ok. Got her to
unplug all the devices and she said the problem was still there.

As I don't live that close to the property I decided to call an
electrician to have a look. He said that he was not able to identify
the problem but had bypassed the RCD to restore power temporarily
until a permanent fix could be found. He also emailed me a quote for
£600 for two man days work to identify the problem.

I decided to visit the property last night just to make sure I was
happy the tennant and the house was safe. I tested a few of the
sockets with a socket tester and it showed that none of them was
earthed. I also managed to establish that the fridge which is located
in the middle of the kitchen "island" was not receiving any power.

IIRC when I tiled the kitchen floor there is a spur to the island
from a JB under one of the tiles (don't ask - I didn't want to mess
around with the existing electrics). So maybe there could be problem
with the JB surrounded by tile cement / concrete?

A couple of questions do I have two separate problems here?
1. No power to the kitchen "island"
2. An earthed live or neutral some on the ring (or possibly even an
appliance that wasn't unplugged). I guess it's possible that there's
a spur that we don't know about that something is plugged into, or a
mouse has chewed through a wire

Are the problems are related?
Is the quote from the electrician reasonable?

Any help gratefully received

This is exactly the sort of situation that puts landlords in prison.
Grow up, and provide your tenant with something legal & safe. And do
it now.

To be fair, he phoned an electrician. What more do you want him to do?

Enter the property at the first possible opportunity and disconnect
the faulty circuit.


NT

[ARWadsworth]

Tabby wrote:
On Apr 6, 9:15 pm, Charlie wrote:
On Apr 6, 5:12 pm, Tabby wrote:



On Apr 6, 4:51 pm, Charlie wrote:

Got a call from my tenant saying the "the switch in the fuse box
keeps repeatedly tripping". It was just the main downstairs ring
that was affected, the other circuits and lights were ok. Got her
to unplug all the devices and she said the problem was still there.

As I don't live that close to the property I decided to call an
electrician to have a look. He said that he was not able to
identify the problem but had bypassed the RCD to restore power
temporarily until a permanent fix could be found. He also emailed
me a quote for £600 for two man days work to identify the problem.

I decided to visit the property last night just to make sure I was
happy the tennant and the house was safe. I tested a few of the
sockets with a socket tester and it showed that none of them was
earthed. I also managed to establish that the fridge which is
located in the middle of the kitchen "island" was not receiving
any power.

IIRC when I tiled the kitchen floor there is a spur to the island
from a JB under one of the tiles (don't ask - I didn't want to
mess around with the existing electrics). So maybe there could be
problem with the JB surrounded by tile cement / concrete?

A couple of questions do I have two separate problems here?
1. No power to the kitchen "island"
2. An earthed live or neutral some on the ring (or possibly even an
appliance that wasn't unplugged). I guess it's possible that
there's a spur that we don't know about that something is plugged
into, or a mouse has chewed through a wire

Are the problems are related?
Is the quote from the electrician reasonable?

Any help gratefully received

This is exactly the sort of situation that puts landlords in prison.
Grow up, and provide your tenant with something legal & safe. And do
it now.

Re payment, I wouldnt pay the idiot a penny. What he's done is
dangerous, illegal and remarkably stupid. I'd tell him to sue me,
but point out that any court would be a lot more interested in what
he'd done than any payment due.

The first thing I'd do is identify the unsafe circuit and disconnect
it.

NT

Tabby,

Thanks for your post, glad I went up to check now. I'll get another
electrician first thing - just hope he's more reputable then the
first one.
Can I just clarify - how the other electrician left it (with nothing
earthed). That is completely illegal?
I'm not an electrician and certainly no expert, hence why I posted
here.

Thanks for you advice

Charlie

If the info you posted is accurate, what he's done is criminal and
dangerous. An RCD tripping usually means there's a live to earth
fault. What stops people getting fried in these situations are
a) the earth wiring
b) the RCD
And IIUC this berk's simply disconnected/bypassed both those!

In all seriousness, if you dont act ASAP on this situation your tenant
can get a nasty shock, and if they're unlucky die, and you could land
in jail.

No. The electrician would go to jail.

--
Adam

[ARWadsworth]

Tabby wrote:
On Apr 6, 9:23 pm, "ARWadsworth"
wrote:
Tabby wrote:
On Apr 6, 4:51 pm, Charlie wrote:

Got a call from my tenant saying the "the switch in the fuse box
keeps repeatedly tripping". It was just the main downstairs ring
that was affected, the other circuits and lights were ok. Got her
to unplug all the devices and she said the problem was still there.

As I don't live that close to the property I decided to call an
electrician to have a look. He said that he was not able to
identify the problem but had bypassed the RCD to restore power
temporarily until a permanent fix could be found. He also emailed
me a quote for £600 for two man days work to identify the problem.

I decided to visit the property last night just to make sure I was
happy the tennant and the house was safe. I tested a few of the
sockets with a socket tester and it showed that none of them was
earthed. I also managed to establish that the fridge which is
located in the middle of the kitchen "island" was not receiving
any power.

IIRC when I tiled the kitchen floor there is a spur to the island
from a JB under one of the tiles (don't ask - I didn't want to mess
around with the existing electrics). So maybe there could be
problem with the JB surrounded by tile cement / concrete?

A couple of questions do I have two separate problems here?
1. No power to the kitchen "island"
2. An earthed live or neutral some on the ring (or possibly even an
appliance that wasn't unplugged). I guess it's possible that
there's a spur that we don't know about that something is plugged
into, or a mouse has chewed through a wire

Are the problems are related?
Is the quote from the electrician reasonable?

Any help gratefully received

This is exactly the sort of situation that puts landlords in prison.
Grow up, and provide your tenant with something legal & safe. And do
it now.

To be fair, he phoned an electrician. What more do you want him to
do?

Enter the property at the first possible opportunity and disconnect
the faulty circuit.

That was the electricians job.

--
Adam

[Tabby]

On Apr 7, 1:46*am, "ARWadsworth"
wrote:
Tabby wrote:
On Apr 6, 9:23 pm, "ARWadsworth"
wrote:
Tabby wrote:
On Apr 6, 4:51 pm, Charlie wrote:

Got a call from my tenant saying the "the switch in the fuse box
keeps repeatedly tripping". It was just the main downstairs ring
that was affected, the other circuits and lights were ok. Got her
to unplug all the devices and she said the problem was still there.

As I don't live that close to the property I decided to call an
electrician to have a look. He said that he was not able to
identify the problem but had bypassed the RCD to restore power
temporarily until a permanent fix could be found. He also emailed
me a quote for 600 for two man days work to identify the problem.

I decided to visit the property last night just to make sure I was
happy the tennant and the house was safe. I tested a few of the
sockets with a socket tester and it showed that none of them was
earthed. I also managed to establish that the fridge which is
located in the middle of the kitchen "island" was not receiving
any power.

IIRC when I tiled the kitchen floor there is a spur to the island
from a JB under one of the tiles (don't ask - I didn't want to mess
around with the existing electrics). So maybe there could be
problem with the JB surrounded by tile cement / concrete?

A couple of questions do I have two separate problems here?
1. No power to the kitchen "island"
2. An earthed live or neutral some on the ring (or possibly even an
appliance that wasn't unplugged). I guess it's possible that
there's a spur that we don't know about that something is plugged
into, or a mouse has chewed through a wire

Are the problems are related?
Is the quote from the electrician reasonable?

Any help gratefully received

This is exactly the sort of situation that puts landlords in prison.
Grow up, and provide your tenant with something legal & safe. And do
it now.

To be fair, he phoned an electrician. What more do you want him to
do?

Enter the property at the first possible opportunity and disconnect
the faulty circuit.

That was the electricians job.

It was. The landlord _is_ aware that the installation is now in a
dangerous state, and has a legal responsibility to provide a safe
house. Thus any failure to act and act without delay renders the
landlord liable. Given what appears to be a lack of electrical skills,
an emergency callout is really the only way I can see to remove the
risk to the landlord.


NT

[pepper]

On Apr 6, 9:18*pm, Charlie wrote:
My postcode is AL5 if anyone wants to private message me.
Otherwise I'll get someone in first thing. *I appreciate the advice,
at least I know what I should be expecting the electrician to do.

Mark of 'Current Solutions' (07837 039045) was sub-contracted by our
builders to do the electrical work on our extension build in Harpenden
a couple of years ago, and we were certainly satisfied with their
work. (friendly bunch too).- you could try giving them a call if
you're still looking.
Mike

[dennis@home[_3_]]

"John Rumm" wrote in message
...


I would expect its the electrician with his nuts on the block here. If the
landlord acted in good faith - got a pro in promptly, then he is beyond
reproach. He can't be realistically expected to have the skills or
knowledge to go and double check the work of the electrician. Its only
luck in this case that he does, coupled with the electrician admitting to
not having done the job asked.

The landlord needs to act though, he knows of the danger and will be
responsible if something happens.

The electrician also needs seeing to, but the problem needs to be made safe
ASAP.

[ARWadsworth]

dennis@home wrote:
"John Rumm" wrote in message
...


I would expect its the electrician with his nuts on the block here.
If the landlord acted in good faith - got a pro in promptly, then he
is beyond reproach. He can't be realistically expected to have the
skills or knowledge to go and double check the work of the
electrician. Its only luck in this case that he does, coupled with
the electrician admitting to not having done the job asked.

The landlord needs to act though, he knows of the danger and will be
responsible if something happens.

The landlord has acted. He asked a question on this newsgroup and he got
some good answers. The fact that part of the question was about about the
competence of the electrician he employed are relevant. I cannot see the
landlord leaving his house in this situation for long.


The electrician also needs seeing to, but the problem needs to be
made safe ASAP.

Indeed it needs to be made safe, but not by the cowboy electrician who has
already looked at the installation.

Just removing the MCB would be enough to make it safe in most cases.

--
Adam

[Charlie]

On Apr 7, 7:08*pm, "ARWadsworth"
wrote:
dennis@home wrote:
"John Rumm" wrote in message
...

I would expect its the electrician with his nuts on the block here.
If the landlord acted in good faith - got a pro in promptly, then he
is beyond reproach. He can't be realistically expected to have the
skills or knowledge to go and double check the work of the
electrician. Its only luck in this case that he does, coupled with
the electrician admitting to not having done the job asked.

The landlord needs to act though, he knows of the danger and will be
responsible if something happens.

The landlord has acted. He asked a question on this newsgroup and he got
some good answers. The fact that part of the question was about about the
competence of the electrician he employed are relevant. I cannot see the
landlord leaving his house in this situation for long.

The electrician also needs seeing to, but the problem needs to be
made safe ASAP.

Indeed it needs to be made safe, but not by the cowboy electrician who has
already looked at the installation.

Just removing the MCB would be enough to make it safe in most cases.

--
Adam

Electrician is coming asap - will post back when it's sorted.

[Charlie]

On Apr 8, 8:36*am, Charlie wrote:
On Apr 7, 7:08*pm, "ARWadsworth"
wrote:









dennis@home wrote:
"John Rumm" wrote in message
...

I would expect its the electrician with his nuts on the block here.
If the landlord acted in good faith - got a pro in promptly, then he
is beyond reproach. He can't be realistically expected to have the
skills or knowledge to go and double check the work of the
electrician. Its only luck in this case that he does, coupled with
the electrician admitting to not having done the job asked.

The landlord needs to act though, he knows of the danger and will be
responsible if something happens.

The landlord has acted. He asked a question on this newsgroup and he got
some good answers. The fact that part of the question was about about the
competence of the electrician he employed are relevant. I cannot see the
landlord leaving his house in this situation for long.

The electrician also needs seeing to, but the problem needs to be
made safe ASAP.

Indeed it needs to be made safe, but not by the cowboy electrician who has
already looked at the installation.

Just removing the MCB would be enough to make it safe in most cases.

--
Adam

Electrician is coming asap - will post back when it's sorted.

Sorry for the late post back. I got a second electrician who around
and have a got a clearer idea of what went wrong.
1. There was a faulty face plate which was causing a problem.
2. There is still an intermittent fault on the downstairs ring which
he has now put on it's own separate RCD (not sure if I have explained
this correctly but it now trips only this circuit and not the whole
house)
3. He has had problems, despite a number of visits to diagnose exactly
what is causing the intermittent fault. It seems to be a neutral/
earth connection somewhere. This has been made worse by the fact that
the "ring is not a ring". It's seems to be some sort of snowman/
figure of eight (probably caused when the rear extension was added by
the previous owner).
4. I have since had some floorboards up and found a number of junction
boxes/spurs which might help in simplifying the circuit and turning it
into a radial which will aid the fault diagnosis.
5. With regards to the previous electrician. The new sockets test I
used was fault. It said all the sockets in my own flat were not
earthed either. The house is in fact correctly earthed.
6. However the previous electrician did move the downstairs "ring" on
to a 32amp fuse - which obviously is a cause for concern.

Will post back when I have more info.

[ARWadsworth]

Charlie wrote:

Electrician is coming asap - will post back when it's sorted.

Sorry for the late post back. I got a second electrician who around
and have a got a clearer idea of what went wrong.
1. There was a faulty face plate which was causing a problem.
2. There is still an intermittent fault on the downstairs ring which
he has now put on it's own separate RCD (not sure if I have explained
this correctly but it now trips only this circuit and not the whole
house)

Couldbe an RCBO but yes it makes sense.

3. He has had problems, despite a number of visits to diagnose exactly
what is causing the intermittent fault. It seems to be a neutral/
earth connection somewhere. This has been made worse by the fact that
the "ring is not a ring". It's seems to be some sort of snowman/
figure of eight (probably caused when the rear extension was added by
the previous owner).

I would have expected a megger to show this fault. However he seems to know
what he is doing.

4. I have since had some floorboards up and found a number of junction
boxes/spurs which might help in simplifying the circuit and turning it
into a radial which will aid the fault diagnosis.


5. With regards to the previous electrician. The new sockets test I
used was fault. It said all the sockets in my own flat were not
earthed either. The house is in fact correctly earthed.

Whoops.

6. However the previous electrician did move the downstairs "ring" on
to a 32amp fuse - which obviously is a cause for concern.

An allowable bypass if the sockets are correctly earthed and it was just a
tempjob.

Will post back when I have more info.

Ta
--
Adam