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UK diy (uk.d-i-y) For the discussion of all topics related to diy (do-it-yourself) in the UK. All levels of experience and proficency are welcome to join in to ask questions or offer solutions. |
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#81
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Most reliable combi boiler 2011
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article , John Rumm wrote: The only thing going is that they are cheap as long as you can handle a thin trickle of hot water to one hot tap or shower at a time. I'm sorry but that is utter nonsense in relation to modern combis. Alas in this area TNP is no different from Dribble - both true believers, and neither is going to let inconvenient facts get in the way of their dogma. I'd like to hear of a combi which can fill a bath as quickly as two 3/4" taps, one of which is supplying water at 60C, and the other cold. And feed another hot tap or two in the house at the same time. The thing with a storage system is you can design it to do near enough what you want - assuming you can site the header tank reasonably. What header tank? mines 32 miles away and a 100ft higher.. Any instant system has practical limits. Yes. |
#82
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Most reliable combi boiler 2011
tony sayer wrote:
All as maybe.. but the Gas now is coming from the other side of the channel, the coal is here under our feet.... And, according to what I've been told by people who should know, because of the way the pits were closed, it will not be economically accessible at any time in the foreseeable future. The pits round here were closed with what was then a couple of centuries of accessible reserves, but which is now totally unusable due to tunnel collapses and the possibility of digging a bit too far and letting water in with a head of a thousand feet or more from a tunnel they don't know about. All of what we have?.. Pretty much, yes. Certainly round here, it was all deep mines, some up to half a mile down. All the pits (Originally a couple of hundred pitheads, at closure one superpit, with four pitheads.) are linked underground, too, so when one pit flooded, so did all the others. I don't know the figures offhand, but I'd be surprised if you could get more than halfway down to the coal nowadays. List of seams at Hanley Deep Pit:- WINGHAY 4/6 FT THICK AT 129 FT BILLY COAL 1/6 FT THICK AT 275 FT ROWHURST + RIDER 12 FT THICK AT 508 FT BURNWOOD 5/2 FT THICK AT 589 FT TWIST 4 FT THICK AT 650 FT GRANVILLE'S 7 FT THICK AT 1120 FT (Birchenwood) MOSS 3/10 FT THICK AT 1190 FT MOSS CANNEL 3 FT THICK AT 1225 FT FIVE FEET 2/3 FT THICK AT 1272 FT YARD 3/6 FT THICK AT 1409 FT RAGMAN 3/10 FT THICK AT 1432 FT ROUGH SEVEN FEET 2/3 FT THICK AT 1448 FT HAMS 4/6 FT THICK AT 1517 FT BELLRINGER 2/6 FT THICK AT 1646 FT TEN FEET 5/6 FT THICK AT 1786 FT BOWLING ALLEY 4/3 FT THICK AT 1942 FT HOLLY LANE 3/6 FT THICK AT 2036 FT HARDMINE 4/6 FT THICK AT 2126 FT BANBURY 3/6 FT THICK AT 2418 FT COCKSHEAD 7/4 FT THICK AT 2583 FT 7/4 means 7 feet 4 inches. Not untypical of local conditions. Add to that the fractured nature of the rock round the seams, and now *in* the seams due to tunnel collapse, and you'll see why the pits would be impossible to re-open. Some of the pits elsewhere that survived the closures are still producing, and there's a bit of open cast that's getting to be worth going for. -- Tciao for Now! John. |
#83
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Most reliable combi boiler 2011
On Mar 13, 12:07*pm, The Natural Philosopher
wrote: harry wrote: On Mar 12, 6:59 pm, tony sayer wrote: In article ps.com, Andy Dingley scribeth thus On Mar 12, 8:40 am, harry wrote: The age of gas is finished. I have some sympathy with this view, but are you going to nip into your Tardis and go back to tell Thatcher not to build our energy generating capacity on gas too? * If you follow the web links that TNP has been posting lately, it's amazing just how much of total grid output has been coming from gas of late. If the gas is finished, or if Putin turns the tap off again, not only will the heating go off, but the lights will too. I'm quite surprised that a fuel like Gas is being used up much faster than what it ought be whereas coal is plentyfuel.. -- Tony Sayer Gas power stations are much cheaper to build than any other sort. No boilers etc. just a gas turbine. They can be quickly started too in an emergency. (Thought this is undesireable) Wrong on both counts. CCGT sets do have a boiler and a steam turbine on the back and are in fact designed as fast start emergency backup as well as continuous operation.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Only if combined cycle. |
#84
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Most reliable combi boiler 2011
Not untypical of local conditions. Add to that the fractured nature of
the rock round the seams, and now *in* the seams due to tunnel collapse, and you'll see why the pits would be impossible to re-open. I suspect that if it was wanted then they'd develop way to get it out which I suppose will cost more then what it might have done otherwise. So what is the percentage of UK coal reserves open cast available to deep mined thats accessible?.. Some of the pits elsewhere that survived the closures are still producing, and there's a bit of open cast that's getting to be worth going for. -- Tony Sayer |
#85
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Most reliable combi boiler 2011
On Mar 13, 3:27*pm, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote: I'd like to hear of a combi which can fill a bath as quickly as two 3/4" taps, one of which is supplying water at 60C, and the other cold. I don't need to fill a bath that quickly, so the question is moot. I just need to fill a bath quickly enough that it's ready for me by the time I've got undressed. Anything else is just superfluous. |
#86
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Most reliable combi boiler 2011
harry wrote:
On Mar 13, 12:07 pm, The Natural Philosopher wrote: harry wrote: On Mar 12, 6:59 pm, tony sayer wrote: In article ps.com, Andy Dingley scribeth thus On Mar 12, 8:40 am, harry wrote: The age of gas is finished. I have some sympathy with this view, but are you going to nip into your Tardis and go back to tell Thatcher not to build our energy generating capacity on gas too? If you follow the web links that TNP has been posting lately, it's amazing just how much of total grid output has been coming from gas of late. If the gas is finished, or if Putin turns the tap off again, not only will the heating go off, but the lights will too. I'm quite surprised that a fuel like Gas is being used up much faster than what it ought be whereas coal is plentyfuel.. -- Tony Sayer Gas power stations are much cheaper to build than any other sort. No boilers etc. just a gas turbine. They can be quickly started too in an emergency. (Thought this is undesireable) Wrong on both counts. CCGT sets do have a boiler and a steam turbine on the back and are in fact designed as fast start emergency backup as well as continuous operation.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Only if combined cycle. Not many OCGT sets around...because of high fuel cost they are only used in extreme '**** we are about to have a blackout, start the diesels captain' sort of situations. |
#87
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Most reliable combi boiler 2011
tony sayer wrote:
Not untypical of local conditions. Add to that the fractured nature of the rock round the seams, and now *in* the seams due to tunnel collapse, and you'll see why the pits would be impossible to re-open. I suspect that if it was wanted then they'd develop way to get it out which I suppose will cost more then what it might have done otherwise. So what is the percentage of UK coal reserves open cast available to deep mined thats accessible?.. we mined all the easy stuff of any quality out in the 40s and 50s. In short there is a lot of coal BUT its all completely inaccessible *at low cost*. The sad truth is we cannot feed ourselves or keep ourselves warm without imports. |
#88
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Most reliable combi boiler 2011
Andy Dingley wrote:
On Mar 13, 3:27 pm, "Dave Plowman (News)" wrote: I'd like to hear of a combi which can fill a bath as quickly as two 3/4" taps, one of which is supplying water at 60C, and the other cold. I don't need to fill a bath that quickly, so the question is moot. I just need to fill a bath quickly enough that it's ready for me by the time I've got undressed. well that takes about 5 seconds. Anything else is just superfluous. Agreed: sub one second bath times are superfluous. |
#89
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Most reliable combi boiler 2011
In article
, harry wrote: What is the point of a combi AND a hot water store? None I would say. I could see it being useful. If say the storage was a long way from the kitchen and the boiler close. Use the combi side just for kitchen hot water. -- *The severity of the itch is proportional to the reach * Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#90
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Most reliable combi boiler 2011
In message , John
Rumm writes On 14/03/2011 10:06, harry wrote: Precisely. These are all things one needs to consider. In my case, a conventional gravity fed storage system won't hack it - no space for the header tank and not enough head. Combi (alone) won't hack it either - not enough peak delivery. Hence mains pressure storage system, or large heatbank with substantial HE and possibly a combi as well is what fits the bill. What is the point of a combi AND a hot water store? None I would say. Its one possible solution that would tick most of the right boxes. Ultimate design will have two baths, three showers. Peak flow requirements are high. Mains water flow rate and pressure availability are high. There is a large airing cupboard available for a substantial size of cylinder, and no loft space at all. Airing cupboard is right next to downstairs shower room, and right under main bathroom, which is right next the en-suite - all nicely concentrated in the middle of the house. Kitchen and utility room are at least 40' of pipe away at the back of the house. Heating needs three zones in total, two heating with independent programmable room stats, and one for water. Split temperature operation is required for cylinder recharge, and full weather compensation with external sensor. So a system boiler plus unvented cylinder, or heatbank with flowswitch, pump, and large PHE could adequately provide the required peak flow for baths / showers. However there would be (as now) a significant dead leg to get hot water to the kitchen. So given there is little difference in price, or complexity between a system boiler and a combi, one could use the latter, and have it HW output feed just the kitchen and utility room - in which it would be located. You could also then set it to provide hotter water there than that set on the main blending valve on the output of the cylinder, and you would also get pottable hot water. Fit an under sink heater? It solved similar issues for us. I actually fed it from the hot supply to take advantage of softened water. A bit of nifty work with some isolation valves would also allow for a bit of two way backup. If the combi part failed, you could route cylinder water to the kitchen, and if there was a cylinder problem you could route combi water to the baths/showers. If the boiler goes totally unserviceable, then a couple of immersion heaters in the cylinder can take over. Can you suggest a better solution? What me? regards -- Tim Lamb |
#91
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Most reliable combi boiler 2011
In article ,
harry wrote: What is the point of a combi AND a hot water store? None I would say. Alpha flowsmart is a combination of both http://www.alpha-innovation.co.uk/pr...mart/991603208 25 or 50l Store is used in the feed to the boiler via a blending valve - idea is that the combi is fed warm water so doesn't have to work as hard. When incoming feed is icy cold in the winter it makes a difference. Darren |
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