[Lobster]

I changed energy suppliers earlier in the year (EDF) and pay by monthly
direct debit to get the cheapest tarrif. My gas payment has been 52
GBP, and my account is currently 22 GBP in debt.

Today I received my latest bill, informing me that they have reviewed my
monthly payments and based on forecast usage (ie over winter) they are
going to increase my payments to - get this - 120 GBP.

This strikes me as utterly ridiculous and I fully intend to whinge, but
before I start raking out old bills and trying to tease out me winter vs
summer gas consumption, does anyone have a rule of thumb as to how these
payments are or should be calculated? Maybe EDF are actually on target,
though seems unlikely to me?

(I wasn't with EDF last winter so they have no clue as to what my winter
usage will be. We use gas for HW, CH, and a hob).

Thanks
David

[Terry Fields]

Lobster wrote:

I changed energy suppliers earlier in the year (EDF) and pay by monthly
direct debit to get the cheapest tarrif. My gas payment has been 52
GBP, and my account is currently 22 GBP in debt.

Today I received my latest bill, informing me that they have reviewed my
monthly payments and based on forecast usage (ie over winter) they are
going to increase my payments to - get this - 120 GBP.

I suspect that EDF don't want you owing them money over the heating
season, and have estimated your consumption and decided on a DD figure
to keep you in the black.

This will of course lead to them being in an even better position this
time next year, should you keep the payments the same.

You might decide that monthly DD isn't necessarily the cheapest option
given this scenario, and a variable quarterly DD be more appropriate.

FWIW my gas consumption is 45 percent DJF, 25 percent MAM, 8 percent
JJA, and 22 percent SON, so it might be worth digging out those old
bills and applying some percentages to them, to give you some idea of
how the £120 works out from your POV.

TF

[js.b1]

EDF have an active legal department whose objective is to extract as
much as possible from a customer not as determined by existing
regulation or case law, but until stopped following a test of their
"reasonableness" in a court of law.

You need your previous years consumption.
Ideally you need the year previous to that, two hits create two bumps
on their thick heads.

You need to work out what you should be paying on the previous year's
(and prior to that if available) consumption.
That is possible via a basic spreadsheet, and using the calculation to
convert gas meter units into kWhr figures.

You thus go on the phone with a figure in mind, which you can justify,
plus a reasonable increase in light of the existing debt. You go
armed, with the yellow pages between the pages of hard facts :-)

[Michael Chare]

"Lobster" wrote in message
...
I changed energy suppliers earlier in the year (EDF) and pay by monthly
direct debit to get the cheapest tarrif. My gas payment has been 52 GBP,
and my account is currently 22 GBP in debt.

Today I received my latest bill, informing me that they have reviewed my
monthly payments and based on forecast usage (ie over winter) they are
going to increase my payments to - get this - 120 GBP.

This strikes me as utterly ridiculous and I fully intend to whinge, but
before I start raking out old bills and trying to tease out me winter vs
summer gas consumption, does anyone have a rule of thumb as to how these
payments are or should be calculated? Maybe EDF are actually on target,
though seems unlikely to me?

Usually incorrectly. Perhaps not helped in my case because although I have
an economy 7 tariff, I don't have any storage heaters, so my summer and
winter usage is much the same.

Just recently I got a bill from Scottish Power with a revised payment that I
realized was not unreasonable. As the meter has not been read for some time
(at least a year), I fed the meter reading into their web site whereupon
they promptly demanded a larger payment.
I had to ring them and they changed the DD back to the previous amount.


--
Michael Chare

[Nick]

"Lobster" wrote in message
...
I changed energy suppliers earlier in the year (EDF) and pay by monthly
direct debit to get the cheapest tarrif. My gas payment has been 52 GBP,
and my account is currently 22 GBP in debt.

Today I received my latest bill, informing me that they have reviewed my
monthly payments and based on forecast usage (ie over winter) they are
going to increase my payments to - get this - 120 GBP.

This strikes me as utterly ridiculous and I fully intend to whinge, but
before I start raking out old bills and trying to tease out me winter vs
summer gas consumption, does anyone have a rule of thumb as to how these
payments are or should be calculated? Maybe EDF are actually on target,
though seems unlikely to me?

(I wasn't with EDF last winter so they have no clue as to what my winter
usage will be. We use gas for HW, CH, and a hob).

Thanks
David

My father always said that a DD is akin to letting someone into your pocket.
I didn't understand at the time but have always followed his advice.
Pay what you have to pay when you have to pay.
There is no sense in giving these people free loans.
Just my 2d worth.
Nick.

[Vortex5]

"
(I wasn't with EDF last winter so they have no clue as to what my winter
usage will be. We use gas for HW, CH, and a hob).

Thanks
David




With e.on there is a funky online "energy tracker", so you can see your
year-on-year consumption.

I have been in the habit of providing monthly readings and the resulting
graphs look like this:

http://home.btconnect.com/vortex/101103gasusage.jpg

In round numbers monthly Winter usage is 5-6 time Summer usage for us. (HW
and heating only)


D
++

(apologies for the lack of "threading". Windows Live Mail was just
automatically downgraded)

[Robin]

I changed energy suppliers earlier in the year (EDF) and pay by
monthly direct debit to get the cheapest tarrif. My gas payment has
been 52 GBP, and my account is currently 22 GBP in debt.

It would help give a more precise answer if we knew when you changed:
average consumption since January likely to be different from that since
August

Today I received my latest bill, informing me that they have reviewed
my monthly payments and based on forecast usage (ie over winter) they
are going to increase my payments to - get this - 120 GBP.

Our gas consumption in Nov-Mar is over 70% of our annual - or to put it
another way, we use nearly 3 times as much a month during the winter.
So EDF seem reasonable if you started with them in the Spring or Summer.
Of course there are lots of other variables: only 2 occupants here so
the ratio of heating/HW may well be higher than you may have; and
relatively poor insulation (Victorian solid walls and suspended floor
not yet done - hangs head).

And of course if you live in the Scilly Isles haven't turned your CH on
yet ........

And while I have not dealt with EDF I have FWIW found other suppliers
quick to respond if one provides readings which show their DD is
excessive. But manifestly a lot depends on how cash flow.
--
Robin
PM may be sent to rbw0{at}hotmail{dot}com

[AlanD[_4_]]

FWIW my gas consumption is 45 percent DJF, 25 percent MAM, 8 percent
JJA, and 22 percent SON, so it might be worth digging out those old
bills and applying some percentages to them, to give you some idea of
how the £120 works out from your POV.

WTF do 'DJF', 'MAM', 'JJA' and 'SON' mean??

[Chris J Dixon]

AlanD wrote:

FWIW my gas consumption is 45 percent DJF, 25 percent MAM, 8 percent
JJA, and 22 percent SON, so it might be worth digging out those old
bills and applying some percentages to them, to give you some idea of
how the £120 works out from your POV.

WTF do 'DJF', 'MAM', 'JJA' and 'SON' mean??

How about December, January, February.....

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK


Have dancing shoes, will ceilidh.

[Robin]

AlanD wrote:
FWIW my gas consumption is 45 percent DJF, 25 percent MAM, 8 percent
JJA, and 22 percent SON, so it might be worth digging out those old
bills and applying some percentages to them, to give you some idea of
how the £120 works out from your POV.

WTF do 'DJF', 'MAM', 'JJA' and 'SON' mean??

I could just tell you but since this is DIY I suggest you look at the
first hit on
http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en...=&oq=&gs_rfai=

HTH

--
Robin
PM may be sent to rbw0{at}hotmail{dot}com

[harry]

On 2 Nov, 23:09, Lobster wrote:
I changed energy suppliers earlier in the year (EDF) and pay by monthly
direct debit to get the cheapest tarrif. *My gas payment has been 52
GBP, and my account is currently 22 GBP in debt.

Today I received my latest bill, informing me that they have reviewed my
monthly payments and based on forecast usage (ie over winter) they are
going to increase my payments to - get this - 120 GBP.

This strikes me as utterly ridiculous and I fully intend to whinge, but
before I start raking out old bills and trying to tease out me winter vs
summer gas consumption, does anyone have a rule of thumb as to how these
payments are or should be calculated? Maybe EDF are actually on target,
though seems unlikely to me?

(I wasn't with EDF last winter so they have no clue as to what my winter
usage will be. *We use gas for HW, CH, and a hob).

Thanks
David

As they do not have a full year's statistics, they have no way of
predicting your usage. Tell them to ***off.
They try to work out your consumption from the consumption on the
same month last year plus any price rises.
It's a plot to get their hands on your money to save on their own
borrowing costs.
There are more sophisticated ways of working out consumption, but in
the end no-one can predict the weather, a major factor.

[Dave Liquorice[_2_]]

On Tue, 02 Nov 2010 23:09:08 +0000, Lobster wrote:

This strikes me as utterly ridiculous and I fully intend to whinge, but
before I start raking out old bills and trying to tease out me winter vs
summer gas consumption, does anyone have a rule of thumb as to how these
payments are or should be calculated?

They guess as they have no past history.

I've never had a problem getting any DD reduced when it's come in
above what I expect but then I have records going back years in a
spread sheet so can work out what I ought to be paying at the click
of a mouse...

The only real way is to go back to meter readings 12 months ago take
readings now and do the maths. This is were a spread sheet is good to
calculate the number of days between the readings divide it into the
total consumption and multiply by 365 to get an "annual" consumption
to then apply the unit cost to, the divide by 12 to get the monthly
payment but don't forget anything you owe/owed, standing charges and
VAT (@5%).

Southern just screwed up one of my bills but their system caught it
before sending it out. Recent meter reading on E7 tarrif but
somewhere down the line the two readings got swapped. This would have
plonked 70,000 units into the day rate at 15p/unit just over 10 grand
and -70,000 units at night rate at 5p/unit, approx £7,000 bill
instead of £90ish...

--
Cheers
Dave.

[Bob Eager]

On Wed, 03 Nov 2010 10:08:21 +0000, Dave Liquorice wrote:

I've never had a problem getting any DD reduced when it's come in above
what I expect but then I have records going back years in a spread sheet
so can work out what I ought to be paying at the click of a mouse...

I've just moved to E.ON and had a bit of trouble with the initial DD.
They wanted £550 a month and I reckoned about £150-£160. They were very
good; I suspect that whoever I used to switch (moneysupermarket I think)
confused my monthly and quarterly bills. Wasn't me; I just put in my
annual usage in kWh.

They cancelled the DD, but that meant paying over 11 months effectively,
so they asked me to choose a value. I said £175 and am happy with
that...! I had worked out, in advance, a likely monthly value averaged
over a year; that was part of the calculations prior to switch.



--
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org

*lightning protection* - a w_tom conductor

[Ronald Raygun]

Nick wrote:

My father always said that a DD is akin to letting someone into your
pocket. I didn't understand at the time but have always followed his
advice. Pay what you have to pay when you have to pay.
There is no sense in giving these people free loans.
Just my 2d worth.
Nick.

DDs are extremely convenient and with the DD guarantee there is not
much reason to be wary of them. They save everyone a lot of time
and effort. The alternative is to write cheques and post them, or
go to a bank or post office to pay them (or cash) in, or to use
standing orders (which have their own problems[*]); there's also
direct transfer by home banking, but frankly I find that more of
a faff than writing a cheque. DD really is best.

As to free loans, that works both ways (the trick is to join a new
supplier just at the start of the cold season, then they will always
be giving you free loans). Some people find it easier to budget when
they pay a fixed amount each month or quarter, and to have the amount
reviewed every year or two, than having to face big winter bills and
small summer ones.
[*] The problem with SOs is that while they're fine for annually
reviewed budgets, they are not suitable for variable amounts.
DDs are suitable for both.

[Man at B&Q]

On Nov 3, 9:43*am, harry wrote:
On 2 Nov, 23:09, Lobster wrote:



I changed energy suppliers earlier in the year (EDF) and pay by monthly
direct debit to get the cheapest tarrif. *My gas payment has been 52
GBP, and my account is currently 22 GBP in debt.

Today I received my latest bill, informing me that they have reviewed my
monthly payments and based on forecast usage (ie over winter) they are
going to increase my payments to - get this - 120 GBP.

This strikes me as utterly ridiculous and I fully intend to whinge, but
before I start raking out old bills and trying to tease out me winter vs
summer gas consumption, does anyone have a rule of thumb as to how these
payments are or should be calculated? Maybe EDF are actually on target,
though seems unlikely to me?

(I wasn't with EDF last winter so they have no clue as to what my winter
usage will be. *We use gas for HW, CH, and a hob).

Thanks
David

As they do not have a full year's statistics, they have no way of
predicting your usage. *Tell them to ***off.

Oh do sod off yourself.

They try to work out your consumption from the *consumption on the
same month last year plus any price rises.

No, they have lots of data that says if a customer uses X during the
previous months then they are likely to use Y during the next billing
period.

Depending exactly how many months the OP has been with EDF then the
increase may not be totally unreasonable.

It's a plot to get their hands on your money to save on their own
borrowing costs.
There are more sophisticated ways of working out consumption, but in
the end no-one can predict the weather, a major factor.

That's why it's only a forecast of energy usage.

MBQ

[Man at B&Q]

On Nov 3, 10:49*am, Ronald Raygun
wrote:
Nick wrote:
My father always said that a DD is akin to letting someone into your
pocket. I didn't understand at the time but have always followed his
advice. Pay what you have to pay when you have to pay.
There is no sense in giving these people free loans.
Just my 2d worth.
Nick.

DDs are extremely convenient and with the DD guarantee there is not
much reason to be wary of them. *They save everyone a lot of time
and effort. *The alternative is to write cheques and post them, or
go to a bank or post office to pay them (or cash) in, or to use
standing orders (which have their own problems[*]); there's also
direct transfer by home banking, but frankly I find that more of
a faff than writing a cheque. *DD really is best.

As to free loans, that works both ways (the trick is to join a new
supplier just at the start of the cold season, then they will always
be giving you free loans).

Most energy suppliers give a discount for DD (or charge extra for
other payment methods, which is another factor to consider.

MBQ

[The Natural Philosopher[_2_]]

Vortex5 wrote:
"
(I wasn't with EDF last winter so they have no clue as to what my winter
usage will be. We use gas for HW, CH, and a hob).

Thanks
David




With e.on there is a funky online "energy tracker", so you can see your
year-on-year consumption.

I have been in the habit of providing monthly readings and the resulting
graphs look like this:

http://home.btconnect.com/vortex/101103gasusage.jpg

In round numbers monthly Winter usage is 5-6 time Summer usage for us.
(HW and heating only)



similar here on oil..

D
++

(apologies for the lack of "threading". Windows Live Mail was just
automatically downgraded)

[Peter Scott]

On 02/11/2010 23:09, Lobster wrote:
I changed energy suppliers earlier in the year (EDF) and pay by monthly
direct debit to get the cheapest tarrif. My gas payment has been 52 GBP,
and my account is currently 22 GBP in debt.

Today I received my latest bill, informing me that they have reviewed my
monthly payments and based on forecast usage (ie over winter) they are
going to increase my payments to - get this - 120 GBP.

This strikes me as utterly ridiculous and I fully intend to whinge, but
before I start raking out old bills and trying to tease out me winter vs
summer gas consumption, does anyone have a rule of thumb as to how these
payments are or should be calculated? Maybe EDF are actually on target,
though seems unlikely to me?

(I wasn't with EDF last winter so they have no clue as to what my winter
usage will be. We use gas for HW, CH, and a hob).

Thanks
David

To be fair (do I want to be?) I think part of the problem is the
algorithm used to calculate the payments. It always over-corrects by
wanting debits to be paid back too quickly. If you run up a debit it
then produces a payment that is much too high, so before long you are
well in credit and it then adjusts it too much too, ad infinitum.

Good advice above. Work out your own estimate with perhaps a 10 or 20 %
extra margin, then *argue*.

Peter Scott

[Terry Fields]

Dave Liquorice wrote:

Southern just screwed up one of my bills but their system caught it
before sending it out. Recent meter reading on E7 tarrif but
somewhere down the line the two readings got swapped. This would have
plonked 70,000 units into the day rate at 15p/unit just over 10 grand
and -70,000 units at night rate at 5p/unit, approx £7,000 bill
instead of £90ish...

That happened to me!

I can't recall if it was Powergen or Eon (one was taken over by the
other, and I can't recall the timing), but I got a bill for £5800.

Despite letters and phone calls, it took two years to get sorted. I
suspect the 'customer service advisers/advisors' binned everything as
it seemed too complicated.

Finally, I got through to a young lady called Michelle, and she
explained that my bill fell between the old system and the new, and it
would take her a complete afternoon to dig out the old records and
work out what had happened.

She did this and phoned me back the next day, to say she'd worked it
all out and that I was owed circa £250. Result!

I'd have sent her some flowers and a bottle of wine, but didn't know
where she was, so settled for saying 'Thanks!".

TF

[Dave Liquorice[_2_]]

On Wed, 03 Nov 2010 15:56:07 +0000, Terry Fields wrote:

Southern just screwed up one of my bills but their system caught
it
before sending it out. Recent meter reading on E7 tarrif but
somewhere down the line the two readings got swapped. This would
have
plonked 70,000 units into the day rate at 15p/unit just over 10
grand
and -70,000 units at night rate at 5p/unit, approx £7,000 bill
instead of £90ish...

That happened to me!

I can't recall if it was Powergen or Eon (one was taken over by the
other, and I can't recall the timing), but I got a bill for £5800.

I never actually saw this eronous bill the system spotted it and
didn't send it out. B-) All I got was a snail mail letter that
looked suspiciously like a phishing attempt, until I read it
properly. Tried to file meter readings online but it wouldn't let me,
niether would their automated telephone meter reading service ended
up talking to a someone who took my readings then said the online
ones had gone through anyway...

I'd have sent her some flowers and a bottle of wine, but didn't know
where she was, so settled for saying 'Thanks!".

Sometimes it is a shame that one can't really thank a customer
services person properly when they do a good job for you. It's a
thankless task handling peoples compliants all the time and quite
probably being verbally abused several times a day.

--
Cheers
Dave.

[EricP]

On Tue, 02 Nov 2010 23:09:08 +0000, Lobster
wrote:

I changed energy suppliers earlier in the year (EDF) and pay by monthly
direct debit to get the cheapest tarrif. My gas payment has been 52
GBP, and my account is currently 22 GBP in debt.

Today I received my latest bill, informing me that they have reviewed my
monthly payments and based on forecast usage (ie over winter) they are
going to increase my payments to - get this - 120 GBP.

This strikes me as utterly ridiculous and I fully intend to whinge, but
before I start raking out old bills and trying to tease out me winter vs
summer gas consumption, does anyone have a rule of thumb as to how these
payments are or should be calculated? Maybe EDF are actually on target,
though seems unlikely to me?

(I wasn't with EDF last winter so they have no clue as to what my winter
usage will be. We use gas for HW, CH, and a hob).

Thanks
David


Snap.

My settlement bill came in three weeks ago. I owed £30, so I was a few
% out. My spend is £75 a month. Our usage has been largely static for
some years.

They gave a long justification and told me my november spend was £122.

Uswitch compounded the situation by showing me that the same company
could have reduced my bill slightly by simply recommending a different
plan.

I simply solved the probleem by switching entirely to another company.

Now we are bombarded every day with letters and phone calls asking us
to reconsider.

Each gets the same answer. If you had bothered to point out the other
plan and had not tried to screw me then we would still be in business.

[Scott M]

Man at B&Q wrote:

Most energy suppliers give a discount for DD (or charge extra for
other payment methods, which is another factor to consider.

Conversely, some give a prompt payment discount equal to the DD saving.
British Gas for one do this.

--
Scott

Where are we going and why am I in this handbasket?