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#1
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building regulations: bedroom windows
Not strictly DIY but I'm sure people here will know the answer. Do bedroom windows have to have an opening at least 600mm wide? The reason I ask is that I had a couple of people round to give me quotes for some replacement windows. The first bloke, an experienced chap from a local firm, said I couldn't do what I wanted because the regs state that bedroom windows need to have an opening of at least 600mm for an escape route. The second chap, a young bloke with shiny suit from a large national firm, didn't seem to know anything about this rule. Assuming the 1st bloke is correct, other than the increased risk of burning to death, what would be the downside if ignoring the regs? Thanks for any information. Gareth |
#2
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building regulations: bedroom windows
On 28/09/10 21:05, Gareth wrote:
Not strictly DIY but I'm sure people here will know the answer. Do bedroom windows have to have an opening at least 600mm wide? The reason I ask is that I had a couple of people round to give me quotes for some replacement windows. The first bloke, an experienced chap from a local firm, said I couldn't do what I wanted because the regs state that bedroom windows need to have an opening of at least 600mm for an escape route. The second chap, a young bloke with shiny suit from a large national firm, didn't seem to know anything about this rule. Assuming the 1st bloke is correct, other than the increased risk of burning to death, what would be the downside if ignoring the regs? Thanks for any information. Gareth It's to do with building regs, Part B: http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/eng...roveddocbvol1/ Have a look - bedrooms don't always need egress windows (that's the technical name) but the document is fairly understandable. I'm not surprised the "nation firm" guy didn't know... |
#3
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building regulations: bedroom windows
On 28 Sep, 21:05, Gareth wrote:
Not strictly DIY but I'm sure people here will know the answer. Do bedroom windows have to have an opening at least 600mm wide? The reason I ask is that I had a couple of people round to give me quotes for some replacement windows. *The first bloke, an experienced chap from a local firm, said I couldn't do what I wanted because the regs state that bedroom windows need to have an opening of at least 600mm for an escape route. *The second chap, a young bloke with shiny suit from a large national firm, didn't seem to know anything about this rule. Assuming the 1st bloke is correct, other than the increased risk of burning to death, what would be the downside if ignoring the regs? Thanks for any information. Gareth It depends on whether in your particular house, a means-of-escape window is required in that particular room. Generally second floor bedrooms do, or first floor 4.5m above ground level, or if they open into another room (such as in an open plan house) rather directly to a hallway leading to an exit door. With unusual house layouts, the rules on this get complicated. You would need to plough through the approved docs to be certain. If a means of escape window is required - from memory it must have an opening area at least 450mm high AND wide AND have an area greater than 0.3 sq m, and be less than 1200mm above floor level. |
#4
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building regulations: bedroom windows
Gareth wrote:
Not strictly DIY but I'm sure people here will know the answer. Do bedroom windows have to have an opening at least 600mm wide? At least one does, yes, unless there is some other way to escape. The reason I ask is that I had a couple of people round to give me quotes for some replacement windows. The first bloke, an experienced chap from a local firm, said I couldn't do what I wanted because the regs state that bedroom windows need to have an opening of at least 600mm for an escape route. The second chap, a young bloke with shiny suit from a large national firm, didn't seem to know anything about this rule. That doesnt surprise me in the slightest. Assuming the 1st bloke is correct, other than the increased risk of burning to death, what would be the downside if ignoring the regs? The BCO can force you to have a suitable window fitted. At your considerable expense. If picked up in a survey, it will also result in a downward negotiation on price when selling. I would p[point out that the fire regulations are drawn up not by government ministers, but by professional architects and fire officers who understand what its like to see someone suffocate to death in a house whilst they are in a ladder outside, with no hope of getting in to rescue them. Thanks for any information. Gareth |
#5
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building regulations: bedroom windows
On 28 Sep, 21:05, Gareth wrote:
Not strictly DIY but I'm sure people here will know the answer. Do bedroom windows have to have an opening at least 600mm wide? The reason I ask is that I had a couple of people round to give me quotes for some replacement windows. The first bloke, an experienced chap from a local firm, said I couldn't do what I wanted because the regs state that bedroom windows need to have an opening of at least 600mm for an escape route. The second chap, a young bloke with shiny suit from a large national firm, didn't seem to know anything about this rule. Assuming the 1st bloke is correct, other than the increased risk of burning to death, what would be the downside if ignoring the regs? Thanks for any information. Gareth I don;t believe anyone can *make* you widen windows just to be 600mm New build maybe - refurb nah not practical key phrases I've picked "you have to work with what you got" "make it no worse than it currently is" I also don;t believe anyone will be that bothered even if the strict letter of the Regs is deemed to have been broken. Firemen on ladders have hammers don;t they? Jim K |
#6
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building regulations: bedroom windows
On 28 Sep, 21:15, Tim Watts wrote:
On 28/09/10 21:05, Gareth wrote: Not strictly DIY but I'm sure people here will know the answer. Do bedroom windows have to have an opening at least 600mm wide? The reason I ask is that I had a couple of people round to give me quotes for some replacement windows. *The first bloke, an experienced chap from a local firm, said I couldn't do what I wanted because the regs state that bedroom windows need to have an opening of at least 600mm for an escape route. *The second chap, a young bloke with shiny suit from a large national firm, didn't seem to know anything about this rule. Assuming the 1st bloke is correct, other than the increased risk of burning to death, what would be the downside if ignoring the regs? Thanks for any information. Gareth It's to do with building regs, Part B: http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/eng...buildingregs/t... Have a look - bedrooms don't always need egress windows (that's the technical name) but the document is fairly understandable. I'm not surprised the "nation firm" guy didn't know... FWIW, the regulations are different in Scotland and more often require this level of escape size. Velux make a special window that opens in two parts to meet this rule. Graham |
#7
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building regulations: bedroom windows
On 28 Sep, 22:13, GAP wrote:
On 28 Sep, 21:15, Tim Watts wrote: On 28/09/10 21:05, Gareth wrote: Not strictly DIY but I'm sure people here will know the answer. Do bedroom windows have to have an opening at least 600mm wide? The reason I ask is that I had a couple of people round to give me quotes for some replacement windows. The first bloke, an experienced chap from a local firm, said I couldn't do what I wanted because the regs state that bedroom windows need to have an opening of at least 600mm for an escape route. The second chap, a young bloke with shiny suit from a large national firm, didn't seem to know anything about this rule. Assuming the 1st bloke is correct, other than the increased risk of burning to death, what would be the downside if ignoring the regs? Thanks for any information. Gareth It's to do with building regs, Part B: http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/eng...buildingregs/t... Have a look - bedrooms don't always need egress windows (that's the technical name) but the document is fairly understandable. I'm not surprised the "nation firm" guy didn't know... FWIW, the regulations are different in Scotland tighter? ;) Jim K |
#8
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building regulations: bedroom windows
On Tue, 28 Sep 2010 21:59:21 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
wrote: Gareth wrote: Not strictly DIY but I'm sure people here will know the answer. Do bedroom windows have to have an opening at least 600mm wide? At least one does, yes, unless there is some other way to escape. Such as a door? :-) -- Frank Erskine |
#9
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building regulations: bedroom windows
On 28 Sep, 21:05, Gareth wrote:
Not strictly DIY but I'm sure people here will know the answer. Do bedroom windows have to have an opening at least 600mm wide? The reason I ask is that I had a couple of people round to give me quotes for some replacement windows. *The first bloke, an experienced chap from a local firm, said I couldn't do what I wanted because the regs state that bedroom windows need to have an opening of at least 600mm for an escape route. *The second chap, a young bloke with shiny suit from a large national firm, didn't seem to know anything about this rule. Assuming the 1st bloke is correct, other than the increased risk of burning to death, what would be the downside if ignoring the regs? Thanks for any information. Gareth Regardless of regulations you need to think about your family's safety. If the hallway/landing was on fire, how would you get out of that room is what you want to ask yourself? With standard window hinges, the opening is made smaller as the window opens. You can get special, more expensive, hinges where this problem is overcome. But if the opening is too small, you/your familly could die just inches from safety. |
#10
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building regulations: bedroom windows
On 29 Sep, 07:44, Frank Erskine wrote:
On Tue, 28 Sep 2010 21:59:21 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote: Gareth wrote: Not strictly DIY but I'm sure people here will know the answer. Do bedroom windows have to have an opening at least 600mm wide? At least one does, yes, unless there is some other way to escape. Such as a door? *:-) -- Frank Erskine Not funny. |
#11
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building regulations: bedroom windows
On 29 Sep, 09:06, harry wrote:
On 28 Sep, 21:05, Gareth wrote: Not strictly DIY but I'm sure people here will know the answer. Do bedroom windows have to have an opening at least 600mm wide? The reason I ask is that I had a couple of people round to give me quotes for some replacement windows. The first bloke, an experienced chap from a local firm, said I couldn't do what I wanted because the regs state that bedroom windows need to have an opening of at least 600mm for an escape route. The second chap, a young bloke with shiny suit from a large national firm, didn't seem to know anything about this rule. Assuming the 1st bloke is correct, other than the increased risk of burning to death, what would be the downside if ignoring the regs? Thanks for any information. Gareth Regardless of regulations you need to think about your family's safety. If the hallway/landing was on fire, how would you get out of that room is what you want to ask yourself? With standard window hinges, the opening is made smaller as the window opens. You can get special, more expensive, hinges where this problem is overcome. But if the opening is too small, you/your familly could die just inches from safety. fit decent smoke detectors (mains w battery back up) and aspire to get out/put it out before it's a life threatener? Jim K |
#12
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building regulations: bedroom windows
"Jim K" wrote in message ... On 29 Sep, 09:06, harry wrote: On 28 Sep, 21:05, Gareth wrote: Not strictly DIY but I'm sure people here will know the answer. Do bedroom windows have to have an opening at least 600mm wide? The reason I ask is that I had a couple of people round to give me quotes for some replacement windows. The first bloke, an experienced chap from a local firm, said I couldn't do what I wanted because the regs state that bedroom windows need to have an opening of at least 600mm for an escape route. The second chap, a young bloke with shiny suit from a large national firm, didn't seem to know anything about this rule. Assuming the 1st bloke is correct, other than the increased risk of burning to death, what would be the downside if ignoring the regs? Thanks for any information. Gareth Regardless of regulations you need to think about your family's safety. If the hallway/landing was on fire, how would you get out of that room is what you want to ask yourself? With standard window hinges, the opening is made smaller as the window opens. You can get special, more expensive, hinges where this problem is overcome. But if the opening is too small, you/your familly could die just inches from safety. fit decent smoke detectors (mains w battery back up) and aspire to get out/put it out before it's a life threatener? While an active safety system might be useful they aren't as reliable as a passive system. Fit opening windows that you can get out off easily not some fashionable cr@p where you need to keep an axe under the bed for emergencies like I used to before we had proper windows fitted. Jim K |
#13
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building regulations: bedroom windows
Frank Erskine wrote:
On Tue, 28 Sep 2010 21:59:21 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote: Gareth wrote: Not strictly DIY but I'm sure people here will know the answer. Do bedroom windows have to have an opening at least 600mm wide? At least one does, yes, unless there is some other way to escape. Such as a door? :-) Its a bit more complex than that. The overall building is looked at in the context of fires blocking stairwells. Or corridors. There must be another way out. |
#14
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building regulations: bedroom windows
[Default] On Tue, 28 Sep 2010 21:05:59 +0100, a certain chimpanzee,
Gareth , randomly hit the keyboard and wrote: Do bedroom windows have to have an opening at least 600mm wide? Yes or no. The reason I ask is that I had a couple of people round to give me quotes for some replacement windows. The first bloke, an experienced chap from a local firm, said I couldn't do what I wanted because the regs state that bedroom windows need to have an opening of at least 600mm for an escape route. The second chap, a young bloke with shiny suit from a large national firm, didn't seem to know anything about this rule. Assuming the 1st bloke is correct, other than the increased risk of burning to death, what would be the downside if ignoring the regs? What is it you want to do? What is the current layout of your building (flat, maisonette, bungalow, two- or three-storey house, etc.)? What level of protection is there to the current escape route? If there are stairs, do they come into an open-plan room, or into a separate hall? With any building work to an existing building (apart from some changes of use), the regulation is that the building work should either comply with the relevant requirements or (if it does not currently comply with those requirements) should be no worse than before the work started. In other words, if the new window is to a first floor habitable room and replacing one that has an opening of at least 0.33m^2 and with a minimum opening width or height of 450mm with the bottom of the opening between 900mm-1100mm above the floor, then the replacement should be at least those dimensions. [This is assuming that the main escape route isn't protected with fire doors and leading directly to a final exit (or two routes separated by fire reisting construction), or there is an alternative route to another stair, or another suitably sized opening in the same room.] If the above criteria are met (i.e., the work makes the building no worse than before the work started), then you haven't "ignored the regs", you've complied with them. I would suggest the surveyor (rather than the salesman) will have a better idea of the requirements. One assumes that the replacement windows will be installed by someone registered with the FENSA self-certification scheme. I don't know how closely these are policed by their governing body, but if the company deliberately installs windows that don't meet the requirements for means of escape, they run a risk of having their licence pulled (albeit probably a miniscule risk). If they aren't 'FENSA registered', then the work should be notified to the local authority, who may query whether the means of escape is any worse than before. If you need to but don't notify the local authority, this may be picked up when you sell the house. Practically, rather than legally, is it worth not having a window that you can't escape through if a fire has blocked your escape route? If you need but don't want that escape route, you should make very sure that you and all occupants of your house are aware of a fire before it's too late. Get some smoke detectors if you haven't already got them. -- Hugo Nebula "If no-one on the internet wants a piece of this, just how far from the pack have I strayed"? |
#15
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building regulations: bedroom windows
On 29/09/2010 21:14, Hugo Nebula wrote: [Default] On Tue, 28 Sep 2010 21:05:59 +0100, a certain chimpanzee, Gareth , randomly hit the keyboard and wrote: Do bedroom windows have to have an opening at least 600mm wide? Yes or no. The reason I ask is that I had a couple of people round to give me quotes for some replacement windows. The first bloke, an experienced chap from a local firm, said I couldn't do what I wanted because the regs state that bedroom windows need to have an opening of at least 600mm for an escape route. The second chap, a young bloke with shiny suit from a large national firm, didn't seem to know anything about this rule. Assuming the 1st bloke is correct, other than the increased risk of burning to death, what would be the downside if ignoring the regs? What is it you want to do? Replace two back bedroom windows, which are currently single glazed wooden framed with double glazed UPVC. The window in the small bedroom is currently divided in half vertically with one half opening and one half fixed. I want to have the same arrangement but double glazed with UPVC frames. What is the current layout of your building (flat, maisonette, bungalow, two- or three-storey house, etc.)? What level of protection is there to the current escape route? If there are stairs, do they come into an open-plan room, or into a separate hall? Fairly ordinary two storey house. Stairs down to a hall. With any building work to an existing building (apart from some changes of use), the regulation is that the building work should either comply with the relevant requirements or (if it does not currently comply with those requirements) should be no worse than before the work started. How strict is the "no worse" bit? If I have the same arrangement as I do currently but with uPVC instead of wood it will be slightly worse because the uPVC frames are slightly thicker. In other words, if the new window is to a first floor habitable room and replacing one that has an opening of at least 0.33m^2 and with a minimum opening width or height of 450mm with the bottom of the opening between 900mm-1100mm above the floor, then the replacement should be at least those dimensions. [This is assuming that the main escape route isn't protected with fire doors and leading directly to a final exit (or two routes separated by fire reisting construction), or there is an alternative route to another stair, or another suitably sized opening in the same room.] If the above criteria are met (i.e., the work makes the building no worse than before the work started), then you haven't "ignored the regs", you've complied with them. I would suggest the surveyor (rather than the salesman) will have a better idea of the requirements. One assumes that the replacement windows will be installed by someone registered with the FENSA self-certification scheme. I don't know how closely these are policed by their governing body, but if the company deliberately installs windows that don't meet the requirements for means of escape, they run a risk of having their licence pulled (albeit probably a miniscule risk). If they aren't 'FENSA registered', then the work should be notified to the local authority, who may query whether the means of escape is any worse than before. If you need to but don't notify the local authority, this may be picked up when you sell the house. Practically, rather than legally, is it worth not having a window that you can't escape through if a fire has blocked your escape route? If you need but don't want that escape route, you should make very sure that you and all occupants of your house are aware of a fire before it's too late. Get some smoke detectors if you haven't already got them. Thanks for your reply. |
#16
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building regulations: bedroom windows
On 28/09/2010 21:15, Tim Watts wrote: On 28/09/10 21:05, Gareth wrote: Not strictly DIY but I'm sure people here will know the answer. Do bedroom windows have to have an opening at least 600mm wide? The reason I ask is that I had a couple of people round to give me quotes for some replacement windows. The first bloke, an experienced chap from a local firm, said I couldn't do what I wanted because the regs state that bedroom windows need to have an opening of at least 600mm for an escape route. The second chap, a young bloke with shiny suit from a large national firm, didn't seem to know anything about this rule. Assuming the 1st bloke is correct, other than the increased risk of burning to death, what would be the downside if ignoring the regs? Thanks for any information. Gareth It's to do with building regs, Part B: http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/eng...roveddocbvol1/ Have a look - bedrooms don't always need egress windows (that's the technical name) but the document is fairly understandable. I'm not surprised the "nation firm" guy didn't know... Thanks for the link. |
#17
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building regulations: bedroom windows
On 28/09/2010 21:05, Gareth wrote: Not strictly DIY but I'm sure people here will know the answer. Do bedroom windows have to have an opening at least 600mm wide? The reason I ask is that I had a couple of people round to give me quotes for some replacement windows. The first bloke, an experienced chap from a local firm, said I couldn't do what I wanted because the regs state that bedroom windows need to have an opening of at least 600mm for an escape route. The second chap, a young bloke with shiny suit from a large national firm, didn't seem to know anything about this rule. Assuming the 1st bloke is correct, other than the increased risk of burning to death, what would be the downside if ignoring the regs? Thanks for any information. Gareth Thanks for all the replies. |
#18
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building regulations: bedroom windows
On 28/09/2010 21:59, The Natural Philosopher wrote: Gareth wrote: Not strictly DIY but I'm sure people here will know the answer. Do bedroom windows have to have an opening at least 600mm wide? At least one does, yes, unless there is some other way to escape. Is that at least one bedroom or at least one window per room? for example, if the stairs were blocked I could go to another bedroom with a bigger window and climb out of there. The reason I ask is that I had a couple of people round to give me quotes for some replacement windows. The first bloke, an experienced chap from a local firm, said I couldn't do what I wanted because the regs state that bedroom windows need to have an opening of at least 600mm for an escape route. The second chap, a young bloke with shiny suit from a large national firm, didn't seem to know anything about this rule. That doesnt surprise me in the slightest. Assuming the 1st bloke is correct, other than the increased risk of burning to death, what would be the downside if ignoring the regs? The BCO can force you to have a suitable window fitted. At your considerable expense. If picked up in a survey, it will also result in a downward negotiation on price when selling. My surveyor didn't spot it |
#19
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building regulations: bedroom windows
[Default] On Thu, 30 Sep 2010 22:15:50 +0100, a certain chimpanzee,
Gareth , randomly hit the keyboard and wrote: How strict is the "no worse" bit? If I have the same arrangement as I do currently but with uPVC instead of wood it will be slightly worse because the uPVC frames are slightly thicker. Strict; I don't know a BCO who would be prepared to accept an opening which is less than 450mm, or less than what was there previously. For those of us with long memories, the requirement was 550mm wide up to about 10 years ago. The reduction in the width was thought at the time to be a retrograde step. Imagine trying to get out of a narrow window. Now imagine trying to get IN wearing breathing apparatus. Do you really want it narrower? If you want side hung openers, how about a window with two casements, and a 'false' central mullion? These are quite common where the appearance of a central mullion is required. -- Hugo Nebula "If no-one on the internet wants a piece of this, just how far from the pack have I strayed"? |
#20
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building regulations: bedroom windows
On 01/10/2010 21:39, Hugo Nebula wrote: [Default] On Thu, 30 Sep 2010 22:15:50 +0100, a certain chimpanzee, Gareth , randomly hit the keyboard and wrote: How strict is the "no worse" bit? If I have the same arrangement as I do currently but with uPVC instead of wood it will be slightly worse because the uPVC frames are slightly thicker. Strict; I don't know a BCO who would be prepared to accept an opening which is less than 450mm, or less than what was there previously. For those of us with long memories, the requirement was 550mm wide up to about 10 years ago. The reduction in the width was thought at the time to be a retrograde step. Imagine trying to get out of a narrow window. Now imagine trying to get IN wearing breathing apparatus. Do you really want it narrower? If you want side hung openers, how about a window with two casements, and a 'false' central mullion? These are quite common where the appearance of a central mullion is required. Thanks for that idea. The local window man suggested two openings with a "flying mullion" down the middle, which he said would be a bit more expensive but his quote was still less than 1/4 the price Everest quoted for what now appears to be non-compliant arrangement. |
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