[Cash]

harry wrote:
On 11 Sep, 19:29, "alexander.keys1" wrote:
On 11 Sep, 12:52, (Richard Tobin) wrote:

How do you attach cable clips to a stone wall? If I manage to hit
the nail hard enough to make any impact on the stone, it makes a
hole so big it falls right out.

-- Richard

ISTR the proper way to lay small cables, that normally have nailed
clips, on hard walls, is to first screw a strip of wood to the wall,
and nail to that. Or you could fit a length of conduit, you won't
need bends or conduit boxes for sheathed cable, just straight
lengths to provide support and protection where necessary.

You can drill a hole and fit the smallest plastic plugs. They will
hold a nail.

Reply to alexander.ke...@gmail through harry as I have killfiled google
posts to reduce spam.

alexander, simply nail into the black mortar/cement joints (using long
masonary nails as necessary) - the cable clip fixings will not be equally
spaced, but better that than damage the stone work.

This by the way, is the normal practice for me (and I nail into the cement
joints on brickwork too), but others may differ.

Cash

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article ,
Cash wrote:
alexander, simply nail into the black mortar/cement joints (using long
masonary nails as necessary) - the cable clip fixings will not be
equally spaced, but better that than damage the stone work.

This by the way, is the normal practice for me (and I nail into the
cement joints on brickwork too), but others may differ.

Try that on most Victorian house and you'll just knock chunks out of the
pointing. The mortar is lime and often just has a thin portland cement
layer as pointing. The bricks are usually softer.

--
*Change is inevitable, except from a vending machine*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

[Martin Bonner]

On Sep 13, 12:09*am, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:
In article ,
* *Cash wrote:
(and I nail into the cement joints on brickwork too),

Try that on most Victorian house and you'll just knock chunks out of the
pointing. The mortar is lime and often just has a thin portland cement
layer as pointing. The bricks are usually softer.

But if you knock out the portland cement pointing, you can repoint
with lime mortar (which is even softer than soft brick), and then nail
into that (and freeze-thaw won't damage your bricks any more).

[[email protected]]

You just wouldn't believe it!

I don't keep the recently discussed pin plugs in the van, but have
decided to do so, despite thinking that they will only get used once a
blue moon. Then today, in a place 80 miles from home that takes an
hour to get into and an hour to get out of, I found that I had to clip
a cable 50ft along a concrete internal wall. There was no chance of
clips going in -- the wall was so hard it was actually slow to drill.
Push in cable tie holders and ties would have looked dreadful. In the
end I cut the heads of some push-ins and used the stems as pin plugs.
It worked fine.

Bill

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article
,
Martin Bonner wrote:
Try that on most Victorian house and you'll just knock chunks out of
the pointing. The mortar is lime and often just has a thin portland
cement layer as pointing. The bricks are usually softer.

But if you knock out the portland cement pointing, you can repoint
with lime mortar (which is even softer than soft brick), and then nail
into that (and freeze-thaw won't damage your bricks any more).

Maybe, but this house was pointed with Portland mortar long before I
bought it and I've been here over 30 years. Using lime mortar (again) is a
recent fad.

But then I don't nail things into it. Or bricks, come to that. Sure way to
split them.

--
*The more people I meet, the more I like my dog.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article
,
wrote:
You just wouldn't believe it!

I don't keep the recently discussed pin plugs in the van, but have
decided to do so, despite thinking that they will only get used once a
blue moon. Then today, in a place 80 miles from home that takes an
hour to get into and an hour to get out of, I found that I had to clip
a cable 50ft along a concrete internal wall. There was no chance of
clips going in -- the wall was so hard it was actually slow to drill.
Push in cable tie holders and ties would have looked dreadful. In the
end I cut the heads of some push-ins and used the stems as pin plugs.
It worked fine.

Sounds like a job for SDS man.

--
*Can fat people go skinny-dipping?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

[[email protected]]

On Sep 14, 11:47*pm, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:
In article
,
* wrote:

You just wouldn't believe it!
I don't keep the recently discussed pin plugs in the van, but have
decided to do so, despite thinking that they will only get used once a
blue moon. Then today, in a place 80 miles from home that takes an
hour to get into and an hour to get out of, I found that I had to clip
a cable 50ft along a concrete internal wall. There was no chance of
clips going in -- the wall was so hard it was actually slow to drill.
Push in cable tie holders and ties would have looked dreadful. In the
end I cut the heads of some push-ins and used the stems as pin plugs.
It worked fine.

Sounds like a job for SDS man.

Bosch 24VRE, new SDS bit, new battery. Operative a bit worn out
though.

Bill

[PeterC]

On Tue, 14 Sep 2010 19:36:37 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Sep 14, 11:47*pm, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:
In article
,
* wrote:

You just wouldn't believe it!
I don't keep the recently discussed pin plugs in the van, but have
decided to do so, despite thinking that they will only get used once a
blue moon. Then today, in a place 80 miles from home that takes an
hour to get into and an hour to get out of, I found that I had to clip
a cable 50ft along a concrete internal wall. There was no chance of
clips going in -- the wall was so hard it was actually slow to drill.
Push in cable tie holders and ties would have looked dreadful. In the
end I cut the heads of some push-ins and used the stems as pin plugs.
It worked fine.

Sounds like a job for SDS man.

Bosch 24VRE, new SDS bit, new battery. Operative a bit worn out
though.

Bill

You need a regrind ;-)
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article
,
wrote:
On Sep 14, 11:47 pm, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:
In article
,
wrote:

You just wouldn't believe it! I don't keep the recently discussed
pin plugs in the van, but have decided to do so, despite thinking
that they will only get used once a blue moon. Then today, in a
place 80 miles from home that takes an hour to get into and an hour
to get out of, I found that I had to clip a cable 50ft along a
concrete internal wall. There was no chance of clips going in -- the
wall was so hard it was actually slow to drill. Push in cable tie
holders and ties would have looked dreadful. In the end I cut the
heads of some push-ins and used the stems as pin plugs. It worked
fine.

Sounds like a job for SDS man.

Bosch 24VRE, new SDS bit, new battery. Operative a bit worn out
though.

You need a decent mains SDS for hard materials. Battery ones ain't got the
oomph. But I do realise the problems there in your job.

--
*Sleep with a photographer and watch things develop

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

[[email protected]]

On Sep 15, 10:59*am, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:
In article
,
* wrote:





On Sep 14, 11:47 pm, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:
In article
,
* wrote:

You just wouldn't believe it! I don't keep the recently discussed
pin plugs in the van, but have decided to do so, despite thinking
that they will only get used once a blue moon. Then today, in a
place 80 miles from home that takes an hour to get into and an hour
to get out of, I found that I had to clip a cable 50ft along a
concrete internal wall. There was no chance of clips going in -- the
wall was so hard it was actually slow to drill. Push in cable tie
holders and ties would have looked dreadful. In the end I cut the
heads of some push-ins and used the stems as pin plugs. It worked
fine.

Sounds like a job for SDS man.
Bosch 24VRE, new SDS bit, new battery. Operative a bit worn out
though.

You need a decent mains SDS for hard materials. Battery ones ain't got the
oomph. But I do realise the problems there in your job.

I don't have problems drilling any material, within reason. I would
use a 110V SDS drill for repeated work using large diameter SDS bits
or for a masonry-cutting core drill, but for anything upto 18mm
diameter the 24V DC drill is fine. When I said drilling the holes in
concrete was 'slow' I didn't mean it took ages, just that it was a bit
slower than drilling brick, perhaps 8 to 12 secs for an 8mm x 30mm
hole. I drilled 50 of the ******* things anyway!

Modern battery SDS drills are very good.

Bill

[Stuart Noble]

On 15/09/2010 17:00, wrote:
On Sep 15, 10:59 am, "Dave Plowman
wrote:
In article
,
wrote:





On Sep 14, 11:47 pm, "Dave Plowman
wrote:
In article
,
wrote:

You just wouldn't believe it! I don't keep the recently discussed
pin plugs in the van, but have decided to do so, despite thinking
that they will only get used once a blue moon. Then today, in a
place 80 miles from home that takes an hour to get into and an hour
to get out of, I found that I had to clip a cable 50ft along a
concrete internal wall. There was no chance of clips going in -- the
wall was so hard it was actually slow to drill. Push in cable tie
holders and ties would have looked dreadful. In the end I cut the
heads of some push-ins and used the stems as pin plugs. It worked
fine.

Sounds like a job for SDS man.
Bosch 24VRE, new SDS bit, new battery. Operative a bit worn out
though.

You need a decent mains SDS for hard materials. Battery ones ain't got the
oomph. But I do realise the problems there in your job.

I don't have problems drilling any material, within reason. I would
use a 110V SDS drill for repeated work using large diameter SDS bits
or for a masonry-cutting core drill, but for anything upto 18mm
diameter the 24V DC drill is fine. When I said drilling the holes in
concrete was 'slow' I didn't mean it took ages, just that it was a bit
slower than drilling brick, perhaps 8 to 12 secs for an 8mm x 30mm
hole. I drilled 50 of the ******* things anyway!

Modern battery SDS drills are very good.

Bill

So I guess you're allowed to clamber about on roofs without the need for
scaffolding? I know roofers and chimney sweeps do it all the time, but
is there some kind of cut off point beyond which HSE requires scaffolding?

[[email protected]]

On Sep 15, 5:27*pm, stuart noble wrote:
On 15/09/2010 17:00, wrote:
So I guess you're allowed to clamber about on roofs without the need for
scaffolding? I know roofers and chimney sweeps do it all the time, but
is there some kind of cut off point beyond which HSE requires scaffolding?- Hide quoted text -

I'm not sure how we got here from a discussion about battery drills,
but we have to obey H & S like everyone else. There are certain
activities where scaffolding would be essential, certain ones where it
wouldn't contribute to safety, and ones where it's debatable. We tend
to use access machinery more than scaffolding because the work is
usually of short duration.

Bill

On 15 Sep,
stuart noble wrote:

So I guess you're allowed to clamber about on roofs without the need for
scaffolding? I know roofers and chimney sweeps do it all the time, but
is there some kind of cut off point beyond which HSE requires scaffolding?

A risk assessment needs to be made. If the job takes more than half an hour a
ladder is unacceptable for access so scaffolding or cherry picker is needed,
or else (for window cleaners etc.) a system for doing the job from ground
level.

--
B Thumbs
Change lycos to yahoo to reply

[Stuart Noble]

On 15/09/2010 23:58, wrote:
On 15 Sep,
stuart wrote:

So I guess you're allowed to clamber about on roofs without the need for
scaffolding? I know roofers and chimney sweeps do it all the time, but
is there some kind of cut off point beyond which HSE requires scaffolding?

A risk assessment needs to be made. If the job takes more than half an hour a
ladder is unacceptable for access so scaffolding or cherry picker is needed,
or else (for window cleaners etc.) a system for doing the job from ground
level.


It seems roofers can spend 2-3 days doing flashing, re-pointing etc off
a ladder, but need scaffolding to re-tile a whole roof. None of it makes
sense to me. Half an hour is more than enough time to have an accident.
It's either safe or it isn't

[Stuart Noble]

On 15/09/2010 20:41, wrote:
On Sep 15, 5:27 pm, stuart wrote:
On 15/09/2010 17:00, wrote:
So I guess you're allowed to clamber about on roofs without the need for
scaffolding? I know roofers and chimney sweeps do it all the time, but
is there some kind of cut off point beyond which HSE requires scaffolding?- Hide quoted text -

I'm not sure how we got here from a discussion about battery drills,


That's usenet for you

but we have to obey H& S like everyone else. There are certain
activities where scaffolding would be essential, certain ones where it
wouldn't contribute to safety, and ones where it's debatable. We tend
to use access machinery more than scaffolding because the work is
usually of short duration.

Bill

[Andy Burns[_7_]]

stuart noble wrote:

On 15/09/2010 20:41, wrote:

I'm not sure how we got here from a discussion about battery drills,

That's usenet for you

Dunno if Bill's spotted the xpost to uk.d-i-y? No recommendations for
angle grinders to remove rusted cable clips yet ...

[[email protected]]

On Sep 16, 9:05*am, Andy Burns wrote:
stuart noble wrote:
On 15/09/2010 20:41, wrote:

I'm not sure how we got here from a discussion about battery drills,

That's usenet for you

Dunno if Bill's spotted the xpost to uk.d-i-y? *No recommendations for
angle grinders to remove rusted cable clips yet ...

No, I tend to not spot things.

Bill

[Dave Liquorice[_2_]]

On Thu, 16 Sep 2010 08:56:49 +0100, stuart noble wrote:

It seems roofers can spend 2-3 days doing flashing, re-pointing etc off
a ladder, but need scaffolding to re-tile a whole roof.

The scaffolding for a re-tile is so they don't have to lower the
tiles to the ground and haul 'em back up again, if reusing the
existing tiles.

--
Cheers
Dave.