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Porous brickwork and treatment



 
 
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  #1  
Old August 17th 10, 09:25 AM posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,653
Default Porous brickwork and treatment

Last Autumn there was a mention in a thread about 1950's brickwork being
porous.
About that time I had to drill a couple of holes in the gable wall - it
faces SW - and the debris was like a crumbly paste rather than dust for
about 15 - 20mm in.
The bricks are heavily patterned - a vertical herringbone groove - which I
think are Rustic(?) from c. 1950.

Is it worth treating the wall and, if so, what sort of gunk to put on it?

There are 2 possibilities on this page

http://www.everbuild.co.uk/products/...e-Treatments/1

although the solvent-based one looks a bit nasty!

Any suggestions please?
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway
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  #2  
Old August 17th 10, 10:18 AM posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,360
Default Porous brickwork and treatment

On 17 Aug, 09:25, PeterC wrote:
Last Autumn there was a mention in a thread about 1950's brickwork being
porous.
About that time I had to drill a couple of holes in the gable wall - it
faces SW - and the debris was like a crumbly paste rather than dust for
about 15 - 20mm in.
The bricks are heavily patterned - a vertical herringbone groove - which I
think are Rustic(?) from c. 1950.

Is it worth treating the wall and, if so, what sort of gunk to put on it?

There are 2 possibilities on this page

http://www.everbuild.co.uk/products/...s/26,Surface-T...

although the solvent-based one looks a bit nasty!

Any suggestions please?
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway


AIUI, there's 2 families of waterproofing treatments - there's the non-
breathable silicon-based ones (Thompsons WaterSeal being the best
known http://www.thompsonsweatherproofing....oduct.jsp?id=1
) - and there's the much more expensive but water-vapour-permeable
silane/siloxane based ones (which are less well known, but Liquid
Plastics K501 is an example http://www.liquidplastics.co.uk/Deco...ngs-for-Walls).

As you've already found out, there's also a division between water-
based and solvent-based versions of silicone treatment. AIUI solvent-
based are the older generation products (I believe silane/siloxane
treatments were also solvent based at one time, but have already been
discontinued).

I've treated a large Victorian building built from very soft red
bricks with K501, because the brickfaces were spalling from frost
damage. This was 2 years ago - and the last 2 winters have shown the
spalling has been completely halted.

With my building it was wise to bear the considerable extra cost of a
breathable treatment, as it's unlikely that all points of water (rain)
penetration could be sealed - and the solution relies on controlling
the level of moisture in the brickfaces (by permitting it to pass out
again as water vapour) down to the point that spalling is stopped.

I can't tell you what will be right for your building, or even if it
is necessary, but bear in mind these treatments are non-reversible -
so do you homework before plunging in.

Can you post a close-up pic of the damage, and another showing the
extent of the problem?
  #3  
Old August 17th 10, 10:27 AM posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 59
Default Porous brickwork and treatment

PeterC wrote:
Last Autumn there was a mention in a thread about 1950's brickwork
being porous.
About that time I had to drill a couple of holes in the gable wall -
it faces SW - and the debris was like a crumbly paste rather than
dust for about 15 - 20mm in.
The bricks are heavily patterned - a vertical herringbone groove -
which I think are Rustic(?) from c. 1950.

Is it worth treating the wall and, if so, what sort of gunk to put on
it?

There are 2 possibilities on this page

http://www.everbuild.co.uk/products/...e-Treatments/1

although the solvent-based one looks a bit nasty!

Any suggestions please?


Liquid Plastics K501 is the dogs danglies


  #4  
Old August 17th 10, 12:24 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,532
Default Porous brickwork and treatment

On Aug 17, 9:25*am, PeterC wrote:
Last Autumn there was a mention in a thread about 1950's brickwork being
porous.
About that time I had to drill a couple of holes in the gable wall - it
faces SW - and the debris was like a crumbly paste rather than dust for
about 15 - 20mm in.
The bricks are heavily patterned - a vertical herringbone groove - which I
think are Rustic(?) from c. 1950.

Is it worth treating the wall and, if so, what sort of gunk to put on it?

There are 2 possibilities on this page

http://www.everbuild.co.uk/products/...s/26,Surface-T...

although the solvent-based one looks a bit nasty!

Any suggestions please?



More or less all above ground wall bricks are porous. What you propose
is a classic mistake. Read SPAB's guidance on such things if you're
still tempted.


NT
  #5  
Old August 17th 10, 02:56 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,360
Default Porous brickwork and treatment

On 17 Aug, 12:24, Tabby wrote:
On Aug 17, 9:25*am, PeterC wrote:



Last Autumn there was a mention in a thread about 1950's brickwork being
porous.
About that time I had to drill a couple of holes in the gable wall - it
faces SW - and the debris was like a crumbly paste rather than dust for
about 15 - 20mm in.
The bricks are heavily patterned - a vertical herringbone groove - which I
think are Rustic(?) from c. 1950.


Is it worth treating the wall and, if so, what sort of gunk to put on it?


There are 2 possibilities on this page


http://www.everbuild.co.uk/products/...s/26,Surface-T...


although the solvent-based one looks a bit nasty!


Any suggestions please?


More or less all above ground wall bricks are porous. What you propose
is a classic mistake. Read SPAB's guidance on such things if you're
still tempted.

NT


I've read the SPAB advice (and been on a couple of of their very good
training courses) - but I disagree with their purist standpoint on
masonry treatments.

They would have you cut out and replace every spalled brick. In my
case that would have been several thousand bricks. A cure is no cure -
if it bankrupts the customer.

I asked a lot of different people, got a lot of different answers -
but the best advice I got was "it depends", and that for my situation
silane/siloxane was the solution *most likely* to make a sane
compromise.

So far - results have borne this out.

If you live in a scheduled ancient monument you'll probably have to do
it the hard way, similarly if the problem is small (or your wallet
very large) it's probably no hardship to go for the rolls-royce
solution. For the rest of us, there's compromise.
  #6  
Old August 17th 10, 10:02 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,532
Default Porous brickwork and treatment

On Aug 17, 2:56*pm, " wrote:
On 17 Aug, 12:24, Tabby wrote:
On Aug 17, 9:25*am, PeterC wrote:


Last Autumn there was a mention in a thread about 1950's brickwork being
porous.
About that time I had to drill a couple of holes in the gable wall - it
faces SW - and the debris was like a crumbly paste rather than dust for
about 15 - 20mm in.
The bricks are heavily patterned - a vertical herringbone groove - which I
think are Rustic(?) from c. 1950.


Is it worth treating the wall and, if so, what sort of gunk to put on it?


There are 2 possibilities on this page


http://www.everbuild.co.uk/products/...s/26,Surface-T....


although the solvent-based one looks a bit nasty!


Any suggestions please?


More or less all above ground wall bricks are porous. What you propose
is a classic mistake. Read SPAB's guidance on such things if you're
still tempted.


NT


I've read the SPAB advice (and been on a couple of of their very good
training courses) - but I disagree with their purist standpoint on
masonry treatments.


its simply based on properly understanding whats known on the subject


They would have you cut out and replace every spalled brick. In my
case that would have been several thousand bricks. A cure is no cure -
if it bankrupts the customer.


Saying the ideal is to replace a spalled brick, but that replacing 100
isnt practical is just stating the obvious. I dont think claiming spab
wants you to replace 1000s of bricks on a terraced house is very
credible. Its also got nothing to do with the question in hand.


I asked a lot of different people, got a lot of different answers -
but the best advice I got was "it depends", and that for my situation
silane/siloxane was the solution *most likely* to make a sane
compromise.


yes, the usual confused & often ignorant advice


So far - results have borne this out.

If you live in a scheduled ancient monument you'll probably have to do
it the hard way, similarly if the problem is small (or your wallet
very large) it's probably no hardship to go for the rolls-royce
solution. For the rest of us, there's compromise.



some calm logic could help


NT
  #7  
Old August 18th 10, 11:30 AM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Posts: 4,598
Default Porous brickwork and treatment


some calm logic could help


NT


Then stay away from conservationists.
  #8  
Old August 18th 10, 12:05 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Posts: 17,501
Default Porous brickwork and treatment

stuart noble wrote:

some calm logic could help


NT


Then stay away from conservationists.

ROFLMAO.
  #9  
Old August 18th 10, 01:54 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,653
Default Porous brickwork and treatment

On Tue, 17 Aug 2010 02:18:37 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On 17 Aug, 09:25, PeterC wrote:
Last Autumn there was a mention in a thread about 1950's brickwork being
porous.
About that time I had to drill a couple of holes in the gable wall - it
faces SW - and the debris was like a crumbly paste rather than dust for
about 15 - 20mm in.
The bricks are heavily patterned - a vertical herringbone groove - which I
think are Rustic(?) from c. 1950.

Is it worth treating the wall and, if so, what sort of gunk to put on it?

There are 2 possibilities on this page

http://www.everbuild.co.uk/products/...s/26,Surface-T...

although the solvent-based one looks a bit nasty!

Any suggestions please?
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway


AIUI, there's 2 families of waterproofing treatments - there's the non-
breathable silicon-based ones (Thompsons WaterSeal being the best
known http://www.thompsonsweatherproofing....oduct.jsp?id=1
) - and there's the much more expensive but water-vapour-permeable
silane/siloxane based ones (which are less well known, but Liquid
Plastics K501 is an example http://www.liquidplastics.co.uk/Deco...ngs-for-Walls).

As you've already found out, there's also a division between water-
based and solvent-based versions of silicone treatment. AIUI solvent-
based are the older generation products (I believe silane/siloxane
treatments were also solvent based at one time, but have already been
discontinued).


Thanks for this info - wondered about the relative merits of solvent/non.

I've treated a large Victorian building built from very soft red
bricks with K501, because the brickfaces were spalling from frost
damage. This was 2 years ago - and the last 2 winters have shown the
spalling has been completely halted.

No spalling of bricks at all; some shallow, inadequate, repointing coming
off on the gable triangle but the rest is OK.

With my building it was wise to bear the considerable extra cost of a
breathable treatment, as it's unlikely that all points of water (rain)
penetration could be sealed - and the solution relies on controlling
the level of moisture in the brickfaces (by permitting it to pass out
again as water vapour) down to the point that spalling is stopped.

I can't tell you what will be right for your building, or even if it
is necessary, but bear in mind these treatments are non-reversible -
so do you homework before plunging in.

Can you post a close-up pic of the damage, and another showing the
extent of the problem?


Apart from the minor bit mentioned above, there's none to see. It's only
the obvious slight dampness to 20mm or so that worried me. It also must
remove a lot of heat from the wall in cold weather when there's a goodly
wind.
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway
  #10  
Old August 18th 10, 01:57 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,653
Default Porous brickwork and treatment

On Tue, 17 Aug 2010 10:27:35 +0100, Pete Zahut wrote:

PeterC wrote:
Last Autumn there was a mention in a thread about 1950's brickwork
being porous.
About that time I had to drill a couple of holes in the gable wall -
it faces SW - and the debris was like a crumbly paste rather than
dust for about 15 - 20mm in.
The bricks are heavily patterned - a vertical herringbone groove -
which I think are Rustic(?) from c. 1950.

Is it worth treating the wall and, if so, what sort of gunk to put on
it?

There are 2 possibilities on this page

http://www.everbuild.co.uk/products/...e-Treatments/1

although the solvent-based one looks a bit nasty!

Any suggestions please?


Liquid Plastics K501 is the dogs danglies


I'd rather avoid coating the wall. I prefer something that soaks in and
that can easily be renewed by simply spraying on another dollop (I've never
like paint on exterior wood and use other treatments where possible).
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway
 




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