[cynic]

No prizes unfortunately and a few with an axe to grind

http://www.theiet.org/Forums/forum/m...threadid=22672

[Robin]

cynic wrote:
No prizes unfortunately and a few with an axe to grind

http://www.theiet.org/Forums/forum/m...threadid=22672

This seems to be a thread from Feb 2008 which relates to a puff from
NICEIC in Jan 2008 -
http://www.voltimum.co.uk/news/9285/...eath-trap.html
Am I having a senior moment please or is there really a new push for
Part P Police Powers?

PS
as usual the stats quoted in Jan 2008 seem to have lumped in fires
caused by appliances etc
--
Robin
PM may be sent to rbw0{at}hotmail{dot}com

[Fredxx]

"cynic" wrote in message
...
No prizes unfortunately and a few with an axe to grind

http://www.theiet.org/Forums/forum/m...threadid=22672

Like you I have written to my MP. I suggest that others here do the same.

It would be priceless if someone here knew the statistics and posted them
here, so that any letters had substance.

[Spamlet]

"Fredxx" wrote in message
...

"cynic" wrote in message
...
No prizes unfortunately and a few with an axe to grind

http://www.theiet.org/Forums/forum/m...threadid=22672

Like you I have written to my MP. I suggest that others here do the same.

It would be priceless if someone here knew the statistics and posted them
here, so that any letters had substance.


The firemen who came to give us free smoke detectors seemed to think that
toasters under kitchen cupboards and hanging tea towels on the rail on the
front of oven doors were the most dangerous things - after smoking that is.

Can't quite visualise the oven door scenario, but I can vouch for the
toaster one, as 'I' once set off the fire alarm in a B&B early one morning,
and got the whole place out of bed, while I tried to get at the very short
flex of the toaster to unplug it and get it out from under the cupboards it
was near to setting fire to!

Well worth checking your own toaster is away from the cupboards before you
trust the automatic ejector! And NEVER trust a cheapo one in a
B&B/self-catering let.

S

[js.b1]

On Jul 29, 8:58*pm, "Spamlet" wrote:
The firemen who came to give us free smoke detectors seemed to think that
toasters under kitchen cupboards and hanging tea towels on the rail on the
front of oven doors were the most dangerous things - after smoking that is.

Extractor fan (seized bearing, no thermal fuse)
Cooker hood fan (multiple causes)
Kitchen towel on electric hob (no "hot" indicator)
Old convector (black heat elements get dust, yellow hotspots, drip
onto carpet)
Iron left on (china syndrome, one is nearing centre of the earth as I
speak, we are doomed)
Tumble dryer element fire (lint filter does not stop some buildup,
bonfire on elements)
Tumble dryer belt failure fire (thermal cutouts should work)
Electric blankets (electrocution or death-by-left-on more a concern)
Microwave (not as common)
Overloaded very old wiring due to GCH fire & convectors
Idiot handyman

Toaster under kitchen cupboard is interesting. Bring back chyrsotile!
Either that or staple gun a fire blanket to the underside of the
cupboard.

We need kitchen fire detectors - not the almost useless "almost after
the fact" heat alarms, plus auto-channel changes on TVs with wireless
video camera are not a bad idea.

[The Natural Philosopher[_2_]]

Spamlet wrote:
"Fredxx" wrote in message
...
"cynic" wrote in message
...
No prizes unfortunately and a few with an axe to grind

http://www.theiet.org/Forums/forum/m...threadid=22672
Like you I have written to my MP. I suggest that others here do the same.

It would be priceless if someone here knew the statistics and posted them
here, so that any letters had substance.


The firemen who came to give us free smoke detectors seemed to think that
toasters under kitchen cupboards and hanging tea towels on the rail on the
front of oven doors were the most dangerous things - after smoking that is.

Candles are far far worse than smoking No one leaves a fag burning
INTENTIONALLY.

And open fires without guards are pretty merciless. In laws lost
their house and two cats to that one..

I have started half a dozen smouldering fires with fag ends. Including
one in the North Vietnamese Embassy, but that's another story..all were
put out by ME.

I've seen fat fires three-4 times. All put out without intervention by
The Authorities..
I've started half a dozen chimney fires as well, all doused in seconds..

I bet amongst sane sober people fag fires come out lower than candles, ...




Can't quite visualise the oven door scenario,

I can. Me mum did that one once. opened gas oven door and scorched the
**** out of a tea towel in seconds.

but I can vouch for the
toaster one, as 'I' once set off the fire alarm in a B&B early one morning,
and got the whole place out of bed, while I tried to get at the very short
flex of the toaster to unplug it and get it out from under the cupboards it
was near to setting fire to!

Well worth checking your own toaster is away from the cupboards before you
trust the automatic ejector! And NEVER trust a cheapo one in a
B&B/self-catering let.

Ive got a 6 and half grand toaster that doesn't have that problem.

Its called an Aga :-)

S

[Fredxx]

"Spamlet" wrote in message
...

"Fredxx" wrote in message
...

"cynic" wrote in message
...
No prizes unfortunately and a few with an axe to grind

http://www.theiet.org/Forums/forum/m...threadid=22672

Like you I have written to my MP. I suggest that others here do the
same.

It would be priceless if someone here knew the statistics and posted them
here, so that any letters had substance.


The firemen who came to give us free smoke detectors seemed to think that
toasters under kitchen cupboards and hanging tea towels on the rail on the
front of oven doors were the most dangerous things - after smoking that
is.

Can't quite visualise the oven door scenario, but I can vouch for the
toaster one, as 'I' once set off the fire alarm in a B&B early one
morning, and got the whole place out of bed, while I tried to get at the
very short flex of the toaster to unplug it and get it out from under the
cupboards it was near to setting fire to!

Well worth checking your own toaster is away from the cupboards before you
trust the automatic ejector! And NEVER trust a cheapo one in a
B&B/self-catering let.


We're talking about Part P. So I was thinking of things relevant to
domestic fixed wiring.

[js.b1]

On Jul 29, 9:32*pm, "Fredxx" wrote:
We're talking about Part P. *So I was thinking of things relevant to
domestic fixed wiring.- Hide quoted text -

Yebbut the statistics invariably quoted include... Fixed...
Portable... Appliances... anything marketing can dig out without
checking its validity and without justification re ASA. Fire Officers
write "electrical" when no other cause may be found, where fixed
wiring is unlikely to be the cause particularly with ever more houses
having RCD protection.

We need EU lobbying to create 2 levels of charity - Defined Scope
Charity & Full Scope Charity where only the latter has full charitable
trust legal protection status and has no commercial interests, no
fees, just DOES charity work, at low cost overheads subject to regular
independent review.

[Clive George]

On 29/07/2010 21:10, js.b1 wrote:

Electric blankets (electrocution or death-by-left-on more a concern)

death-by-left-on?

I used to think electric blankets were for old fogies till we got one -
in a cold house they're fantastic. High setting (100w?) is too hot to
sleep, but if by mistake they're not switched off 1 or 2 can be ok.

[Tim Watts]

Clive George
wibbled on Thursday 29 July 2010 23:55

On 29/07/2010 21:10, js.b1 wrote:

Electric blankets (electrocution or death-by-left-on more a concern)

death-by-left-on?

I used to think electric blankets were for old fogies till we got one -
in a cold house they're fantastic. High setting (100w?) is too hot to
sleep, but if by mistake they're not switched off 1 or 2 can be ok.

Was in the London Science Museum today with the sprogs. Down in the basement
they have an exhibition of old appliances, including:

Many open element fires, one of which had the coil elements utterly
unprotected save 3 horizontal guard wires about 3" apart.

How did we stay alive?...

My great aunt recalled an episode where she was hoovering the switched off
electric fire, and there was a huge bang as the metal hoover tube shorted
the mercifully earthed guard wires to the exposed element as the plug had
live and neutral reversed and the switch was single pole.

The best one was the "sun bath" reflector-heater with inbuilt carbon arc
lamp "because UV is good for you" - bugger all mechanical protection again,
never mind the poor user's eyes!

--
Tim Watts

Managers, politicians and environmentalists: Nature's carbon buffer.

[js.b1]

On Jul 29, 11:55*pm, Clive George wrote:
On 29/07/2010 21:10, js.b1 wrote:
Electric blankets (electrocution or death-by-left-on more a concern)

death-by-left-on?

I should qualify that.
Many modern electric blankets are designed to be left on all night
(heated wrap for use in a chair, heated duvet, heated overblanket).
Many old electric blankets must not be left on all night due to heat
output.


I forgot to turn off one of those old ones, 20yrs ago, and did wake up
about an hour later bucket-soaked and feeling extremely ill. Had to
strip the bed, wash the duvet & actually dry the mattress, ended up
working through the night drinking water. With an elderly person the
heat stress can cause cardiac failure, long time since I heard of such
a death though.

[js.b1]

Some electric blanket statistics from Fire Services...

Accident statistics
DTI research shows that in 1996 faulty electric blankets caused more
than 5,000 fires:
- There were 19 deaths (compared with 32 in 1985).
- There were 91 non-fatal injuries (compared with 438 in 1985).
- The majority of non-fatal injuries (76%) are minor in nature,
usually involving smoke inhalation, and do not involve admittance to
hospital.
- At least 99 per cent of electric blanket fires are believed to
involve blankets that are more than 10 years old.
- 89 per cent of the people who died were over 65.

In tests carried out on over 50,000 electric blankets, 70 per cent
failed safety tests, and 40 per cent were found unsuitable for further
use.

Ownership
- Sales of electric blankets have fallen from over 1 million in the
early 1980s to nearer 800,000 from 1990 onwards, mainly because many
people have invested in central heating and double glazing.
- There are in the region of 10 million blankets in use in the UK.
About 30 per cent of these are more than 10 years old (including
around 500,000 over 20 years old).


Actually the argument about GCH & DG is erroneous, it is more
engrained demographic usage and some people particularly with
arthritis wanting to get into an obviously *heated* bed rather than
one perceived as cold. I suspect the number of blankets at 20yrs old
is higher and 15yrs old considerably higher.

[Clive George]

On 30/07/2010 00:14, js.b1 wrote:
On Jul 29, 11:55 pm, Clive wrote:
On 29/07/2010 21:10, js.b1 wrote:
Electric blankets (electrocution or death-by-left-on more a concern)

death-by-left-on?

I should qualify that.
Many modern electric blankets are designed to be left on all night
(heated wrap for use in a chair, heated duvet, heated overblanket).
Many old electric blankets must not be left on all night due to heat
output.

Ah ok - ours aren't like that, they're the newer sort, though still an
underblanket rather than duvet, overblanket or wrap. (plural because we
let guests have one too :-) )

I forgot to turn off one of those old ones, 20yrs ago, and did wake up
about an hour later bucket-soaked and feeling extremely ill. Had to
strip the bed, wash the duvet& actually dry the mattress, ended up
working through the night drinking water. With an elderly person the
heat stress can cause cardiac failure, long time since I heard of such
a death though.

Oops. Worst that's happend with ours is woken up going "blimey it's a
bit warm, bother, forgot to turn it off", turning it off and then going
to sleep again. It's no worse than a warm summer night.

[Stuart Noble]

Was in the London Science Museum today with the sprogs.

Brave man. I bet you slept well last night.

[Andy Burns[_7_]]

stuart noble wrote:

Was in the London Science Museum today with the sprogs.

Brave man. I bet you slept well last night.

I still remember the blisters I got on my hands from my first visit
there as a child ... frantically winding those Van de Graaff generators
and similar exhibits.

[Tim Watts]

Andy Burns
wibbled on Friday 30 July 2010 09:56

stuart noble wrote:

Was in the London Science Museum today with the sprogs.

Brave man. I bet you slept well last night.

I still remember the blisters I got on my hands from my first visit
there as a child ... frantically winding those Van de Graaff generators
and similar exhibits.

Sadly you can't zap yourself anymore

They do have some cool stuff like the washing machine that you can control
the inlet water, hand crank the drum and the emptying pump.

And the cut-away bog that works with a *very* realistic looking plastic turd


The computers section is a bit naff for kids - perfect opprotunity to press
hundreds of buttons and not actually much to do. And the enviro-********
zone is best avoided.

But the space section is very cool. Think they still have one of the Apollo
capsules but I didn't get to that bit this time.

Know what the PP means, legs fell off after that!

And we dropped into to the National Gallery for 10 minutes as it's next to
Charing X. Thanks to that recent Dr Who episode, the kids wanted to see
some. People were clearly amused by a 4 and 6 year old avidly inspecting
every painting in room 45 commenting that it "must be a van Gogh because of
the wibbly swirly colours"!

And the fact that the "Sunflowers" didn't actually have "for Amy" written on
it

--
Tim Watts

Managers, politicians and environmentalists: Nature's carbon buffer.

[dennis@home]

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...


I have started half a dozen smouldering fires with fag ends. Including one
in the North Vietnamese Embassy, but that's another story..all were put
out by ME.

I've seen fat fires three-4 times. All put out without intervention by The
Authorities..
I've started half a dozen chimney fires as well, all doused in seconds..


Bloody 'ell, a walking disaster.
I can safely claim to have only started one unintentional fire and I don't
think a four year old can be held responsible so I don't accept the blame.

[Andrew Gabriel]

In article ,
"Spamlet" writes:

The firemen who came to give us free smoke detectors seemed to think that
toasters under kitchen cupboards and hanging tea towels on the rail on the
front of oven doors were the most dangerous things - after smoking that is.

When I last did a fire training course, which is probably 6+ years
ago, fires in the home were due to smoking firstly, and chip pans
secondly. Unattended TV's was also surprisingly high up the list.
Wouldn't be surprised if the chip pan one had dimished, as I suspect
deep frying in an open pan on the hob has probably dropped.

But the significant thing about electrical installation fires are
they they mostly aren't due to poor installation workmanship, but are
due to doing nothing when the installation badly needs working on.
That's the point which is always (deliberately) missed by the likes
of NICEIC, because it doesn't fit with their agenda.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]