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Default Hilti bolt spacing

Hi I'm putting a new floor level in an old concrete block building. I
am intending to hilti bolt a 3 x 6 wooden beam on opposing walls then
using joist hangers on them joisting across ( 14ft 1in span, 18inch
spacing ) with 6x2 joists.
Any suggestions on dimensions and spacing of the hilti bolts, also am
going to double up joists where bath & water cylinder etc will be; is
it normal to have double width hangers for this or just bolt together
timbers?
I'm stuck with max 6in depth of joists as stuck for internal room
height.
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Default Hilti bolt spacing

On 03/06/10 17:51, rog wrote:
Hi I'm putting a new floor level in an old concrete block building. I
am intending to hilti bolt a 3 x 6 wooden beam on opposing walls then
using joist hangers on them joisting across ( 14ft 1in span, 18inch
spacing ) with 6x2 joists.
Any suggestions on dimensions and spacing of the hilti bolts, also am
going to double up joists where bath& water cylinder etc will be; is
it normal to have double width hangers for this or just bolt together
timbers?
I'm stuck with max 6in depth of joists as stuck for internal room
height.


First question - have you asked your building inspector (BCO)?

Second question - any reason for 6x2 rather than 6x3's? Just curious...



--
Tim Watts

Hung parliament? Rather have a hanged parliament.
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Default Hilti bolt spacing

On 3 June, 18:17, Tim Watts wrote:
On 03/06/10 17:51, rog wrote:

Hi I'm putting a new floor level in an old concrete block building. I
am intending to hilti bolt a 3 x 6 wooden beam on opposing walls then
using joist hangers on them joisting across ( 14ft 1in span, 18inch
spacing ) with 6x2 joists.
Any suggestions on dimensions and spacing of the hilti bolts, also am
going to double up joists where bath& *water cylinder etc will be; is
it normal to have double width hangers for this or just bolt together
timbers?
I'm stuck with max 6in depth of joists as stuck for internal room
height.


First question - have you asked your building inspector (BCO)?

Second question - any reason for 6x2 rather than 6x3's? Just curious...

--
Tim Watts

Hung parliament? Rather have a hanged parliament.


Thanks for your reply, I'm doing this in SW Ireland where building
inspectors are not as in uk, if at all !
6x3s would seem good, would I still need to double up at bath etc
positions?
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Default Hilti bolt spacing

On 03/06/10 18:41, rog wrote:
On 3 June, 18:17, Tim wrote:
On 03/06/10 17:51, rog wrote:

Hi I'm putting a new floor level in an old concrete block building. I
am intending to hilti bolt a 3 x 6 wooden beam on opposing walls then
using joist hangers on them joisting across ( 14ft 1in span, 18inch
spacing ) with 6x2 joists.
Any suggestions on dimensions and spacing of the hilti bolts, also am
going to double up joists where bath& water cylinder etc will be; is
it normal to have double width hangers for this or just bolt together
timbers?
I'm stuck with max 6in depth of joists as stuck for internal room
height.


First question - have you asked your building inspector (BCO)?

Second question - any reason for 6x2 rather than 6x3's? Just curious...

--
Tim Watts

Hung parliament? Rather have a hanged parliament.


Thanks for your reply, I'm doing this in SW Ireland where building
inspectors are not as in uk, if at all !
6x3s would seem good, would I still need to double up at bath etc
positions?


Ah... By SW, I assume you mean Eire?

With no disrespect intended, your reply worries me slightly as you seem
to be doing some serious structural stuff without the support of a good
set of plans. No rudeness intended - uk.d-i-y is here to help. But that
help might translate into "get a professional to advise"...

Anyway - 1st question: You presumably are/have to involve the building
control dept or whatever you call it? Will what you do be assessed by a
building inspector, prefereably before you start and at the end? Over
here (England) if it gets passed by the BCO you can usually be fairly
sure it isn't going to break.

2nd question: Just to be clear: 14' 1" (4.3m) clear span - and spacing
of 18" (450mm). My dormer conversion is 3.4m span and I have 8x2" joists
at an average of 450mm. That's why I mentioned 6x3's.

I'm not the person to say if this is good or not, but hopefully, someone
else can. Have you looked into Superbeam software (the author is on here
frequently) - that can help a lot with loading and bending calculations.

Regarding the bath and tank - I would expect a correctly designed floor
to cope, but you could always space those joists closer without going
for a full doubling up.

Have you got any other issues to consider, like resisting the spread of
fire between the floors?

Cheers

Tim

--
Tim Watts

Hung parliament? Rather have a hanged parliament.
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Default Hilti bolt spacing

On 03/06/10 18:24, rog wrote:
On 3 June, 18:17, Tim wrote:
On 03/06/10 17:51, rog wrote:

Hi I'm putting a new floor level in an old concrete block building. I
am intending to hilti bolt a 3 x 6 wooden beam on opposing walls then
using joist hangers on them joisting across ( 14ft 1in span, 18inch
spacing ) with 6x2 joists.
Any suggestions on dimensions and spacing of the hilti bolts, also am
going to double up joists where bath& water cylinder etc will be; is
it normal to have double width hangers for this or just bolt together
timbers?
I'm stuck with max 6in depth of joists as stuck for internal room
height.


First question - have you asked your building inspector (BCO)?

Second question - any reason for 6x2 rather than 6x3's? Just curious...

--
Tim Watts

Hung parliament? Rather have a hanged parliament.


Thanks for your response, firstly I'm in S W Ireland where building
insp don't exist in the uk manner, secondly do you mean 6x3s just
instead of the doubleing up or for all the joists ?


Have a look at Appendix A in the old UK Building Regs Part A (Structure)
from 1992 - useful table of joist spans:

http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/PpW..._AD_A_1992.pdf

That suggests at the very minimum, you'd need 50mm x 195mm at 400mm
spacing. Can't see any way to do it with 150mm deep timber - you could
just do it with 75 x 170 (3x7").

You may need a more exotic solution. 4.3m is quite a long span and you
don't want that bouncing.

Flitch beams (steel/timber sandwich)
Engineered beams
Mid span support (RSJ)

could all be possible solutions. I think you need to be taking
professional advice.

Cheers

Tim
--
Tim Watts

Hung parliament? Rather have a hanged parliament.


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Default Hilti bolt spacing


"rog" wrote in message
...
Hi I'm putting a new floor level in an old concrete block building. I
am intending to hilti bolt a 3 x 6 wooden beam on opposing walls then
using joist hangers on them joisting across ( 14ft 1in span, 18inch
spacing ) with 6x2 joists.
Any suggestions on dimensions and spacing of the hilti bolts, also am
going to double up joists where bath & water cylinder etc will be; is
it normal to have double width hangers for this or just bolt together
timbers?
I'm stuck with max 6in depth of joists as stuck for internal room
height.


If it were me ..

# use double hangers where double joists.

# use square twist nails to nail joists to hangers

# use Hilti resin bolts 150mm in from each end at at 450mm spacing ... i.e.
between each joist.

If it is an old building consider using resin anchors must better grip
especially in blocks ... in effect you resin it threaded studs.

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Default Hilti bolt spacing

On 4 June, 21:17, Tim Watts wrote:
On 04/06/10 21:15, Davao - Arthur55 wrote:





*wrote in message
....
Hi I'm putting a new floor level in an old concrete block building. I
am intending to hilti bolt a 3 x 6 wooden beam on opposing walls then
using joist hangers on them joisting across ( 14ft 1in span, 18inch
spacing ) with 6x2 joists.
Any suggestions on dimensions and spacing of the hilti bolts, also am
going to double up joists where bath& *water cylinder etc will be; is
it normal to have double width hangers for this or just bolt together
timbers?
I'm stuck with max 6in depth of joists as stuck for internal room
height.


None of the above advisors answered your question on the hilti bolts.
I'd be interested in the answer to this particular qustion.


Good luck.


Arthur


One did - he said 200mm in from the and every 450mm (or joist spacing).
I think he also said "use resin bolts" which is what I would do too,
especially for something like this.

--
Tim Watts

Hung parliament? Rather have a hanged parliament.


Thanks for the info
Roger
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Default Hilti bolt spacing

On 06/06/10 19:45, rog wrote:
On 4 June, 21:17, Tim wrote:


One did - he said 200mm in from the and every 450mm (or joist spacing).
I think he also said "use resin bolts" which is what I would do too,
especially for something like this.

--
Tim Watts

Hung parliament? Rather have a hanged parliament.


Thanks for the info
Roger


Did you figure out your sizes and spans in the end?

--
Tim Watts

Hung parliament? Rather have a hanged parliament.
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Default Hilti bolt spacing


"rog" wrote in message
...
On 4 June, 21:17, Tim Watts wrote:
On 04/06/10 21:15, Davao - Arthur55 wrote:





wrote in message
...
Hi I'm putting a new floor level in an old concrete block building. I
am intending to hilti bolt a 3 x 6 wooden beam on opposing walls then
using joist hangers on them joisting across ( 14ft 1in span, 18inch
spacing ) with 6x2 joists.
Any suggestions on dimensions and spacing of the hilti bolts, also am
going to double up joists where bath& water cylinder etc will be; is
it normal to have double width hangers for this or just bolt together
timbers?
I'm stuck with max 6in depth of joists as stuck for internal room
height.


None of the above advisors answered your question on the hilti bolts.
I'd be interested in the answer to this particular qustion.


Good luck.


Arthur


One did - he said 200mm in from the and every 450mm (or joist spacing).
I think he also said "use resin bolts" which is what I would do too,
especially for something like this.



That was me ....

in case it wasn't clear the end bolts 200mm in ... not too close to end to
avoid splitting, and then one between each joist span.

Resin studs will put a lot less strain on 'unknown' quality old blockwork.
You could find expanding sleeeve anchors shatter the blocks ... or spall off
big chunks.
Resin will give a very strong fixing and no risk of damage to the blocks.

I recently put in 64 16mm diam anchors this way into a reinforced raft,
resin fix is a very good solution.

(Screwfix sell it .. easy enough to get hold of)

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Default Hilti bolt spacing

On 6 June, 21:40, Tim Watts wrote:
On 06/06/10 19:45, rog wrote:

On 4 June, 21:17, Tim *wrote:
One did - he said 200mm in from the and every 450mm (or joist spacing)..
I think he also said "use resin bolts" which is what I would do too,
especially for something like this.


--
Tim Watts


Hung parliament? Rather have a hanged parliament.


Thanks for the info
Roger


Did you figure out your sizes and spans in the end?

--
Tim Watts

Hung parliament? Rather have a hanged parliament.


Hi
I've decided on doubling up into 100x150 hangers 50x150 joists bolted
together. 18 inch spacing of joists, span 14ft 1in.
Cheers
Roger
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