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Default Shave/plane glass?

I bought some glass, but it's about 1mm too tall. (It would take a
long dull paragraph to explain everything, so I'll skip that.) It's
thick lamenate glass, and I need to shave off / plane 1mm off one of
the sides. Is this possible? Thanks a lot for any ideas.
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On Sun, 23 May 2010 00:50:59 -0700 (PDT), rpgs rock dvds
wrote:

I bought some glass, but it's about 1mm too tall. (It would take a
long dull paragraph to explain everything, so I'll skip that.) It's
thick lamenate glass, and I need to shave off / plane 1mm off one of
the sides. Is this possible? Thanks a lot for any ideas.


If it's to go in a wooden frame, could you shave a bit of the frame
away?

--
Frank Erskine
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In message
,
rpgs rock dvds writes
I bought some glass, but it's about 1mm too tall. (It would take a
long dull paragraph to explain everything, so I'll skip that.) It's
thick lamenate glass, and I need to shave off / plane 1mm off one of
the sides. Is this possible? Thanks a lot for any ideas.


I have used an oil stone to take off sharp edges but 1mm sounds a tall
order. One of those diamond impregnated tool sharpeners perhaps?

I doubt this is an obvious angle grinder job:-)

regards

--
Tim Lamb
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rpgs rock dvds wrote:
I bought some glass, but it's about 1mm too tall. (It would take a
long dull paragraph to explain everything, so I'll skip that.) It's
thick lamenate glass, and I need to shave off / plane 1mm off one of
the sides. Is this possible? Thanks a lot for any ideas.


Only way to do that is to grind it down.


NT
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rpgs rock dvds wrote:
I bought some glass, but it's about 1mm too tall. (It would take a
long dull paragraph to explain everything, so I'll skip that.) It's
thick lamenate glass, and I need to shave off / plane 1mm off one of
the sides. Is this possible? Thanks a lot for any ideas.


essentially no.

Especiially if toughened.


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On 23 May, 08:50, rpgs rock dvds wrote:
I bought some glass, but it's about 1mm too tall. *(It would take a
long dull paragraph to explain everything, so I'll skip that.) *It's
thick lamenate glass, and I need to shave off / plane 1mm off one of
the sides. *Is this possible? *Thanks a lot for any ideas.


Take it back to the supplier (or a good glazier, like Roman Glass in
Bristol) and have them grind it down on their belt grinder. This is
easy (for people who have glass-working belt grinders)

You can also do it yourself with a coarse carborundum stone, ideally
working under water. I detest this job, particularly on anything big.
1mm is big for grinding by hand.

Otherwise stretching the frame is probably easier.
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On 23 May, 10:47, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
rpgs rock dvds wrote:


thick lamenate glass, and I need to shave off / plane 1mm off


essentially no.

Especiially if toughened.


Have a grown-up explain the differences between "laminated" and
"toughened" to you.
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rpgs rock dvds wrote:

It's
thick lamenate glass, and I need to shave off / plane 1mm off one of
the sides. Is this possible? Thanks a lot for any ideas.


Pilkington can do it. I doubt that you could at home. If you could,
you'd be the sort of person who makes his own telescope lenses and
mirrors and you'd know what to do. As others have said, if it's
toughened glass, which is probably is, then all bets are off.
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On 23 May, 08:50, rpgs rock dvds wrote:

Thanks a lot for all replies.
I'm going to contact the supplier first thing in the morning, and ask
if I can take the 3 glass sheets back in for grinding.
Just for a bit of extra info/interest - it's 10.8mm acoustic stadip
silence glass. This is laminate glass, but I think the "filling" has
special acoustic properties.
(BTW, it's not possible to alter the frame in any way.)
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Andy Dingley wrote:
On 23 May, 10:47, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
rpgs rock dvds wrote:


thick lamenate glass, and I need to shave off / plane 1mm off


essentially no.

Especiially if toughened.


Have a grown-up explain the differences between "laminated" and
"toughened" to you.

oops. miised that bit..


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rpgs rock dvds wrote:

I'm going to contact the supplier first thing in the morning, and ask
if I can take the 3 glass sheets back in for grinding.


Please get back with the price. A like a good laugh.
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Andy Dingley wrote:

Have a grown-up explain the differences between "laminated" and
"toughened" to you.


Perhaps you could do so? I have several pieces of laminated glass which
are toughened. i.e. the laminate is a sheet of toughened glass, the
polymer then a sheet of non-toughened glass.

It's all very well to get snotty about these things, but you had better
be sure of the grounds on which you build your heap of snot.

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Steve Firth wrote:
rpgs rock dvds wrote:

It's
thick lamenate glass, and I need to shave off / plane 1mm off one of
the sides. Is this possible? Thanks a lot for any ideas.


Pilkington can do it. I doubt that you could at home.


Yes it can be done at home and without the help of Pilks.

If you could,
you'd be the sort of person who makes his own telescope lenses and
mirrors and you'd know what to do.


A totally inane statement from someone who has no knowledge of the subject.

As others have said, if it's
toughened glass, which is probably is, then all bets are off.


You are also unable to accurately read a post, the glass was stated as
*LAMINATED* , which is an entirely different method of manufacture [1] - and
as a result, "all bets" are *ON* - simply grind it using a diamond or
carborundum stone (powered or manual). Just ensure that the glass is lying
on a flat surface and take care and time in doing it.

[1] Very simply put (and you can google it to get detailed information):

TOUGHENED glass is heat-treated to set up internal stresses - and
*cannot* be worked after.

LAMINATED glass has a plastic interleave between two pieces of
glass - and *can* be worked after.

Good day to you.

Falco



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On 23 May, 12:19, (Steve Firth) wrote:
rpgs rock dvds wrote:

I'm going to contact the supplier first thing in the morning, and ask
if I can take the 3 glass sheets back in for grinding.


Please get back with the price. A like a good laugh.


So it's not going to be cheap then? The 3 sheets are all 600mm x
848mm. I need the 848mm side ground down to 847mm, for each sheet.
Do you think it will cost more than £50?
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Steve Firth wrote:
Andy Dingley wrote:

Have a grown-up explain the differences between "laminated" and
"toughened" to you.


Perhaps you could do so? I have several pieces of laminated glass
which are toughened. i.e. the laminate is a sheet of toughened glass,
the polymer then a sheet of non-toughened glass.


Not so - I have worked with glass for years and never seen such a hybrid.

It's all very well to get snotty about these things, but you had
better be sure of the grounds on which you build your heap of snot.


I think you had better take your own advice.

Falco




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On 23 May, 12:26, "Falco" wrote:

simply grind it using a diamond or carborundum stone (powered or manual)..


Is this something that I can buy from my local hardware store (or
possibly ebay)? Would I need to be careful about ventilation, because
of glass particles in the air? I think if my glass supplier says to
bring in the sheets, and they can do it for less than £50, I'm tempted
to go for that approach, because I'm incredibly busy ATM, and would
like the glass ground down ASAP.
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Falco wrote:
Steve Firth wrote:
Andy Dingley wrote:

Have a grown-up explain the differences between "laminated" and
"toughened" to you.

Perhaps you could do so? I have several pieces of laminated glass
which are toughened. i.e. the laminate is a sheet of toughened glass,
the polymer then a sheet of non-toughened glass.


Not so - I have worked with glass for years and never seen such a hybrid.

It's all very well to get snotty about these things, but you had
better be sure of the grounds on which you build your heap of snot.


I think you had better take your own advice.

Falco


Although its unusual, I think that such composites exist.

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rpgs rock dvds wrote:

On 23 May, 12:19, (Steve Firth) wrote:
rpgs rock dvds wrote:

I'm going to contact the supplier first thing in the morning, and ask
if I can take the 3 glass sheets back in for grinding.


Please get back with the price. A like a good laugh.


So it's not going to be cheap then? The 3 sheets are all 600mm x
848mm. I need the 848mm side ground down to 847mm, for each sheet.
Do you think it will cost more than £50?


I'll be surprised if you can get it done for £50. The last quote that I
had for scratch removal from glass was £150, this was for a minor
scratch that was simply bloody irritating and was much less than 1mm
deep. To skim 1mm off three sheets of glass seems like a major
undertaking.

I'm really surprised that it's not easier to adjust the frame. What is
stopping you?
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"Falco" wrote:

You are also unable to accurately read a post, the glass was stated as
*LAMINATED* , which is an entirely different method of manufacture [1] - and
as a result, "all bets" are *ON* - simply grind it using a diamond or
carborundum stone (powered or manual). Just ensure that the glass is lying
on a flat surface and take care and time in doing it.


http://glazeguard.com/safeguard.htm

Perhaps you can now admit that you were talking ********?
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"Falco" wrote:


Perhaps you could do so? I have several pieces of laminated glass
which are toughened. i.e. the laminate is a sheet of toughened glass,
the polymer then a sheet of non-toughened glass.


Not so - I have worked with glass for years and never seen such a hybrid.


Then you've never owned a car because most cars nowadays have inner
toughened glass, exterior plain glass for the windscreen. I suspect some
are going to toughened glass both sides to reduce pedestrian
lacerations. It's well-proven technology. It's also used extensively in
safety laminated glass for domestic use (link provided elsewhere).

One assumes from your cockwitted comment that you're another glazier
with pretensions of competence.


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On 23 May, 13:55, (Steve Firth) wrote:
I'm really surprised that it's not easier to adjust the frame. What is stopping you?


OK here's the situation. I've moved in to a flat, and just outside
the flat is some kind of contraption that makes a lot of noise. I
think it may be a generator for air conditioning. There's a shop
downstairs, and I think it's theirs. I can't make any alterations to
the flat in any way, because I'm just renting, and I'll be gone in
about 5 months time, so I want a quick and easy "solution".

The existing double glazing looks cheap and nasty. My "bodge job"
approach to this problem was to buy 3 sheets of thick lamenated glass,
and simply wedge them inside the inner window area, so that they sit
on top of the window sill, a little bit like secondary glazing.
Luckily, there's a kind of perimeter ridge area within this inner
window area, where I can lean the sheets of glass against. But
because the glass sheets are fractionally too tall, there's not enough
room for me to wedge them between the window sill at the bottom, and
the top part of the inner window area.

If I can't economically get 1mm shaved off the sheets, I could try a
different approach. But plan B is even more mad than the above plan
A. I could get a wood plane, and shave off about 1mm of the front
window sill area! That would allow me to get the 3 sheets of glass
wedged in and propped up inside the inner window area. However, this
will cause one significant problem: after planing the front part of
the window sill wood (the area which is furthest away from the
existing double glazing), the entire window sill wood area will get 2
height levels. One level will be lower (at the front where I want to
prop up the glass), and one level will be 1mm higher (at the back,
near where the existing glazing is.) So, you'll see a "ridge" where
these 2 levels meet. Could I sand that ridge down, to kind of merge
the 2 levels, so it won't be noticeable? Of course, I'll need to
repaint the window sill where I have used the wood plane. The flat is
a bit of a dump, and I doubt whether the owner cares about this... I
suppose the worst that could happen is I'll either get a deduction on
my flat rental deposit, or I'll get sectioned for being a loon.
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rpgs rock dvds wrote:

The existing double glazing looks cheap and nasty. My "bodge job"
approach to this problem was to buy 3 sheets of thick lamenated glass,
and simply wedge them inside the inner window area, so that they sit
on top of the window sill, a little bit like secondary glazing.
Luckily, there's a kind of perimeter ridge area within this inner
window area, where I can lean the sheets of glass against. But
because the glass sheets are fractionally too tall, there's not enough
room for me to wedge them between the window sill at the bottom, and
the top part of the inner window area.


light comes on

So you don't want to reduce the thickness of the glass by 1mm, you
simply want to cut the glass so that it fits inside the opening?

Any glazier should be able to do that for you.

Although you're going about things in a weird way IMO. Normally one
makes a frame to fit inside the window reveal and has the glass cut to
fit the frame. the reason for this being that it makes it easier to open
the window if necessary and that the frame can easily be adjusted to
take up any uneveness in the wall.

Or am I misunderstanding you again?
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On 23 May, 15:21, (Steve Firth) wrote:
light comes on


So you don't want to reduce the thickness of the glass by 1mm, you simply want to cut the glass so that it fits inside the opening?


[ ... (snip) ]

Or am I misunderstanding you again?


A-ha! No, you're correct. That's all I want to do. The glass is
10.8mm thick, and that's perfect - just what I need. The problem is
that the height of the glass (848mm) is fractionally too tall. If I
could reduce this height dimension to 847mm, it would then fit snugly
inside the inner window recess area.

Problem solved perhaps? I'll ring the glazing shop tomorrow morning,
and report back with their answer+price.
Thanks.
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"rpgs rock dvds" wrote in message
...
On 23 May, 13:55, (Steve Firth) wrote:
I'm really surprised that it's not easier to adjust the frame. What is
stopping you?


OK here's the situation. I've moved in to a flat, and just outside
the flat is some kind of contraption that makes a lot of noise. I
think it may be a generator for air conditioning. There's a shop
downstairs, and I think it's theirs. I can't make any alterations to
the flat in any way, because I'm just renting, and I'll be gone in
about 5 months time, so I want a quick and easy "solution".

The existing double glazing looks cheap and nasty. My "bodge job"
approach to this problem was to buy 3 sheets of thick lamenated glass,
and simply wedge them inside the inner window area, so that they sit
on top of the window sill, a little bit like secondary glazing.
Luckily, there's a kind of perimeter ridge area within this inner
window area, where I can lean the sheets of glass against. But
because the glass sheets are fractionally too tall, there's not enough
room for me to wedge them between the window sill at the bottom, and
the top part of the inner window area.

If I can't economically get 1mm shaved off the sheets, I could try a
different approach. But plan B is even more mad than the above plan
A. I could get a wood plane, and shave off about 1mm of the front
window sill area! That would allow me to get the 3 sheets of glass
wedged in and propped up inside the inner window area. However, this
will cause one significant problem: after planing the front part of
the window sill wood (the area which is furthest away from the
existing double glazing), the entire window sill wood area will get 2
height levels. One level will be lower (at the front where I want to
prop up the glass), and one level will be 1mm higher (at the back,
near where the existing glazing is.) So, you'll see a "ridge" where
these 2 levels meet. Could I sand that ridge down, to kind of merge
the 2 levels, so it won't be noticeable? Of course, I'll need to
repaint the window sill where I have used the wood plane. The flat is
a bit of a dump, and I doubt whether the owner cares about this... I
suppose the worst that could happen is I'll either get a deduction on
my flat rental deposit, or I'll get sectioned for being a loon.


I'd shave the sills and then fill the gap with polyfiller just before you
move out and paint over it. No one will ever know.
--
Dave Baker


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In message , Steve Firth
writes
rpgs rock dvds wrote:

The existing double glazing looks cheap and nasty. My "bodge job"
approach to this problem was to buy 3 sheets of thick lamenated glass,
and simply wedge them inside the inner window area, so that they sit
on top of the window sill, a little bit like secondary glazing.
Luckily, there's a kind of perimeter ridge area within this inner
window area, where I can lean the sheets of glass against. But
because the glass sheets are fractionally too tall, there's not enough
room for me to wedge them between the window sill at the bottom, and
the top part of the inner window area.


light comes on

So you don't want to reduce the thickness of the glass by 1mm, you
simply want to cut the glass so that it fits inside the opening?


" I need to shave off / plane 1mm off one of the sides. Is this
possible?"

That's what he said in his original post ...



Any glazier should be able to do that for you.

Although you're going about things in a weird way IMO. Normally one
makes a frame to fit inside the window reveal and has the glass cut to
fit the frame. the reason for this being that it makes it easier to open
the window if necessary and that the frame can easily be adjusted to
take up any uneveness in the wall.

Or am I misunderstanding you again?


--
geoff


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Steve Firth wrote:
rpgs rock dvds wrote:

The existing double glazing looks cheap and nasty. My "bodge job"
approach to this problem was to buy 3 sheets of thick lamenated
glass, and simply wedge them inside the inner window area, so that
they sit on top of the window sill, a little bit like secondary
glazing. Luckily, there's a kind of perimeter ridge area within this
inner window area, where I can lean the sheets of glass against. But
because the glass sheets are fractionally too tall, there's not
enough room for me to wedge them between the window sill at the
bottom, and the top part of the inner window area.


light comes on

So you don't want to reduce the thickness of the glass by 1mm, you
simply want to cut the glass so that it fits inside the opening?

Any glazier should be able to do that for you.


OP; "I bought some glass, but it's about 1mm too tall."

Seemed simple enough to me.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk


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In message , Tim
Streater writes
In article , geoff
wrote:

In message , Steve Firth
writes
rpgs rock dvds wrote:

The existing double glazing looks cheap and nasty. My "bodge job"
approach to this problem was to buy 3 sheets of thick lamenated glass,
and simply wedge them inside the inner window area, so that they sit
on top of the window sill, a little bit like secondary glazing.
Luckily, there's a kind of perimeter ridge area within this inner
window area, where I can lean the sheets of glass against. But
because the glass sheets are fractionally too tall, there's not enough
room for me to wedge them between the window sill at the bottom, and
the top part of the inner window area.

light comes on

So you don't want to reduce the thickness of the glass by 1mm, you
simply want to cut the glass so that it fits inside the opening?


" I need to shave off / plane 1mm off one of the sides. Is this
possible?"

That's what he said in his original post ...


Sure. But to me, and apparently Steve, that meant make the glass 1mm
*thinner* not 1mm *shorter*. If he meant shorter why dint he say shave
1mm off oner *edge*? Eh? Eh?

Klods need to learn to express therselves proper like.

A side is a side, a face is a face

seemed pretty clear to me


--
geoff
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rpgs rock dvds has brought this to us :
A-ha! No, you're correct. That's all I want to do. The glass is
10.8mm thick, and that's perfect - just what I need. The problem is
that the height of the glass (848mm) is fractionally too tall. If I
could reduce this height dimension to 847mm, it would then fit snugly
inside the inner window recess area.

Problem solved perhaps? I'll ring the glazing shop tomorrow morning,
and report back with their answer+price.
Thanks.


Are you sure the noise is air-borne? A/C's are often mounted on outside
walls and the vibration could be travelling through the wall, rather
that noise through the window.

--
Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk


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On 23 May, 17:20, Harry Bloomfield
wrote:

Are you sure the noise is air-borne? A/C's are often mounted on outside walls and the vibration could be travelling through the wall, rather that noise through the window.


Unfortunately, I think you're right. The A/C unit (if that's what it
is) is mounted on the outside flat wall, and it's fairly likely the
noise will be travelling through the wall. However, the cheap n nasty
double glazing does appear to be one weak link in the flat, sound
wise. There's nothing I can do about the vibration, but if the
secondary glazing plan works and cuts down the noise by a quarter or a
third, then that'll be good enough. I hope.

I was at the flat today at about 7 AM. I wonder why the downstairs
shop needs it running on Sunday morning? There was no one there.
This thing makes a noise for about 30 seconds, then stops. 4-5
minutes later, the same thing happens. Again and again... I've been
at the flat during work day hours, and the thing makes a louder sound
for longer periods.
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Steve Firth wrote:
"Falco" wrote:


Perhaps you could do so? I have several pieces of laminated glass
which are toughened. i.e. the laminate is a sheet of toughened
glass, the polymer then a sheet of non-toughened glass.


Not so - I have worked with glass for years and never seen such a
hybrid.


Then you've never owned a car because most cars nowadays have inner
toughened glass, exterior plain glass for the windscreen. I suspect
some are going to toughened glass both sides to reduce pedestrian
lacerations. It's well-proven technology. It's also used extensively
in safety laminated glass for domestic use (link provided elsewhere).


Driven and played with cars for more years than I can remember, and even
seen the 'horse collar' and facial laceration injuries caused by the *early*
laminated and toughened glass - but I have *NEVER* seen a combination of
both - what's the purpose of that then?

Surely toughened glass is designed to shatter and safely fall away when
broken - and laminated glass when brokenn is designed to break and stay in
one piece to prevent injuries such as 'horse collar' - and a such a hybrid
to my thoughts at the moment is

Please supply your link to this - as I consider your information to be
incorrect.

One assumes from your cockwitted comment that you're another glazier
with pretensions of competence.


Certainly not a glazier, but I have worked with glass over many years as
part of my job - as for "cockwitted", then there seems to be a touch of
"saucepan calling the kettle black" - especially from the "incompetence" of
many of your replies in the various groups you post in.

BTW, if you're going to google for a link, try looking at Tufflam - but this
is a structural glass (used in flooring etc) with the properties that you
describe and not generally used in domestic or motoring situations.

Now don't forget to post your link

Falco




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Steve Firth wrote:
rpgs rock dvds wrote:

The existing double glazing looks cheap and nasty. My "bodge job"
approach to this problem was to buy 3 sheets of thick lamenated
glass, and simply wedge them inside the inner window area, so that
they sit on top of the window sill, a little bit like secondary
glazing. Luckily, there's a kind of perimeter ridge area within this
inner window area, where I can lean the sheets of glass against. But
because the glass sheets are fractionally too tall, there's not
enough room for me to wedge them between the window sill at the
bottom, and the top part of the inner window area.


light comes on

And you consider yourself to be the "intelligent one" ROTFL.

I thought it was obvious from the first post of this thread that the glass
was oversize in height or width (or both). And you called me *cockwitted*,
shakes head and sighs! *eg*


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After serious thinking rpgs rock dvds wrote :
Again and again... I've been
at the flat during work day hours, and the thing makes a louder sound
for longer periods.


Likely, with the shop door open or opening frequently it will need to
do more work. Might be worth having a word with the shop owner and
asking if they might be prepared to turn it off when they are closed,
or add a time clock - it would save them quite a lot in their bills if
it were.

Vibration in the outer wall, will pass straight through to the inner
via the wall ties if it is a cavity wall.

--
Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk


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"Harry Bloomfield" wrote in message
. uk...
After serious thinking rpgs rock dvds wrote :
Again and again... I've been
at the flat during work day hours, and the thing makes a louder sound
for longer periods.


Likely, with the shop door open or opening frequently it will need to do
more work. Might be worth having a word with the shop owner and asking if
they might be prepared to turn it off when they are closed, or add a time
clock - it would save them quite a lot in their bills if it were.

Vibration in the outer wall, will pass straight through to the inner via
the wall ties if it is a cavity wall.

--
Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)


Or spoil the food if it is a refridgeration system and not an aircon unit:-)

Adam


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ARWadsworth wrote:

Or spoil the food if it is a refridgeration system and not an aircon unit:-)


Which would be my guess too - and explain why it runs 24 hours, but
works harder in the day when they open the fridge door.(1)

Andy

--
(1) It'll probably be room sized, or a room full of cabinets, not a
domestic system
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"Falco" wrote:

Please supply your link to this


I already have.

- as I consider your information to be
incorrect.


Whoop-de-do, some anonymous troll has delusions of competence. Should I
be concerned? ... No.


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On 23 May, 12:19, (Steve Firth) wrote:

Perhaps you could do so? I have several pieces of laminated glass which
are toughened. i.e. the laminate is a sheet of toughened glass, the
polymer then a sheet of non-toughened glass.


Bull**** Steve.

Talk to a glass laminator and they might (if they can be arsed to talk
to know-it-all ****wit #3 round here) why you can't have toughened in
a lamination.

If you find a way of doing this, there's a market calling out for it.
If you think you can do it with a cold adhesive laminate then there's
already a market for that, but it's no use to man nor beast as it
looks bad and it has no more strength than plain toughened.
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On 23 May, 13:01, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

Although its unusual, I think that such composites exist.


Well there you go, ****wit #2 chips in. What more proof could there be?
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On 23 May, 13:55, (Steve Firth) wrote:

I'll be surprised if you can get it done for £50. The last quote that I
had for scratch removal from glass was £150,


Aye Steve, but a tenner to anyone else would be a quote for £150 to an
oil magnate like you.
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Andy Dingleberry wrote:

On 23 May, 12:19, (Steve Firth) wrote:

Perhaps you could do so? I have several pieces of laminated glass which
are toughened. i.e. the laminate is a sheet of toughened glass, the
polymer then a sheet of non-toughened glass.


Bull**** Steve.


No it's not, Dingleberry.

Talk to a glass laminator and they might (if they can be arsed to talk
to know-it-all ****wit #3 round here) why you can't have toughened in
a lamination.


I've already posted one URL from a laminator who will provide toughened
glass laminations. Here's another URL explaining how toughned glass is
used in laminated windscreens.

http://www.answers.com/topic/automobile-windshield

You will also find that it's mandatory to use toughened glass in
European (CE marked) windscreens to reduce facial lacerations in the
event of someone's facing impacting the inner surface of the windscreen.

Here's the URL I provided earlier that it appears you, and other
****wits like you couldn't be bothered to read:

http://glazeguard.com/safeguard.htm

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Andy Dingleberry wrote:

Talk to a glass laminator and they might (if they can be arsed to talk
to know-it-all ****wit #3 round here) why you can't have toughened in
a lamination.


Oh look, here's a data sheet from the major UK supplier of toughened,
laminated glass something you say doesn't exist. Apology on its way yet,
Dingleberry?

http://www.essexsafetyglass.co.uk/pdf/TuffLam.pdf
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