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UK diy (uk.d-i-y) For the discussion of all topics related to diy (do-it-yourself) in the UK. All levels of experience and proficency are welcome to join in to ask questions or offer solutions. |
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#1
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Gluing silicon door seal to steel - sports car
My wife's Mazda MX5 hard top had the door seals replaced a year ago.
They are meant to grip onto a steel rib. They didn't fit all that well when I did the job and now they are tending to drop off fairly frequently. Do I use ordinary silicone to glue them on or is there some specific silicone glue? Thanks Rob |
#2
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Gluing silicon door seal to steel - sports car
robgraham wrote:
My wife's Mazda MX5 hard top had the door seals replaced a year ago. They are meant to grip onto a steel rib. They didn't fit all that well when I did the job and now they are tending to drop off fairly frequently. Do I use ordinary silicone to glue them on or is there some specific silicone glue? I would try an acrylic like decorators caulk/. Easy to remove if it dioesnt work and its less messy. Thanks Rob |
#3
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Gluing silicon door seal to steel - sports car
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
I would try an acrylic like decorators caulk/. Easy to remove if it dioesnt work and its less messy. And it's absolutely the wrong compound to use for this application. |
#4
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Gluing silicon door seal to steel - sports car
robgraham wrote:
My wife's Mazda MX5 hard top had the door seals replaced a year ago. They are meant to grip onto a steel rib. They didn't fit all that well when I did the job and now they are tending to drop off fairly frequently. Do I use ordinary silicone to glue them on or is there some specific silicone glue? Something like this http://www.diy.com/diy/jsp/bq/nav.js...LAID=266887903 -- Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk |
#5
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Gluing silicon door seal to steel - sports car
Steve Firth wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote: I would try an acrylic like decorators caulk/. Easy to remove if it dioesnt work and its less messy. And it's absolutely the wrong compound to use for this application. Worked well for me. However, as we all know, you know so much about everything that your head is not big enough to contain your brain, which is why most of your thoughts dribble out of your arse. |
#6
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Gluing silicon door seal to steel - sports car
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Steve Firth wrote: The Natural Philosopher wrote: I would try an acrylic like decorators caulk/. Easy to remove if it dioesnt work and its less messy. And it's absolutely the wrong compound to use for this application. Worked well for me. Yes of course it did, and the moon is made of green cheese. There may be life forms out there thicker than you, but if there are, science hasn't discovered them yet. |
#7
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Gluing silicon door seal to steel - sports car
We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember robgraham saying something like: Do I use ordinary silicone to glue them on or is there some specific silicone glue? For many automotive applications, Sikaflex tend to have the adhesive of choice. |
#8
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Gluing silicon door seal to steel - sports car
Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:
For many automotive applications, Sikaflex tend to have the adhesive of choice. A good choice, Sikaflex is a polyurethane adhesive/sealant and will stand up well to the conditions encountered by a vehicle. Silicon sealant should also work well and has the advantage that it can be cleaned from bodywork with white spirit (or tar remover) without damaging paintwork. A polyurethane adhesive such as Gorilla glue should work but it foams and is IMO unsuitable for vehicle applications. Sikaflex doesn't foam and stays where it is put. Water-based domestic acrylic sealant is the choice of fools. |
#9
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Gluing silicon door seal to steel - sports car
In article ,
Steve Firth wrote: Grimly Curmudgeon wrote: For many automotive applications, Sikaflex tend to have the adhesive of choice. A good choice, Sikaflex is a polyurethane adhesive/sealant and will stand up well to the conditions encountered by a vehicle. Silicon sealant should also work well and has the advantage that it can be cleaned from bodywork with white spirit (or tar remover) without damaging paintwork. A polyurethane adhesive such as Gorilla glue should work but it foams and is IMO unsuitable for vehicle applications. Sikaflex doesn't foam and stays where it is put. I'd found Evostick Serious excellent on a variety of materials around the car that others barf at. Think it is also a polyurethane glue - but easily available from your local shed. Water-based domestic acrylic sealant is the choice of fools. I'd agree there. Wouldn't even think of trying it. -- *I took an IQ test and the results were negative. Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#10
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Gluing silicon door seal to steel - sports car
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article , Steve Firth wrote: Grimly Curmudgeon wrote: For many automotive applications, Sikaflex tend to have the adhesive of choice. A good choice, Sikaflex is a polyurethane adhesive/sealant and will stand up well to the conditions encountered by a vehicle. Silicon sealant should also work well and has the advantage that it can be cleaned from bodywork with white spirit (or tar remover) without damaging paintwork. A polyurethane adhesive such as Gorilla glue should work but it foams and is IMO unsuitable for vehicle applications. Sikaflex doesn't foam and stays where it is put. I'd found Evostick Serious excellent on a variety of materials around the car that others barf at. Think it is also a polyurethane glue - but easily available from your local shed. Water-based domestic acrylic sealant is the choice of fools. I'd agree there. Wouldn't even think of trying it. If you want just enough adhesion to hold a rubber strip in place and the ability to not leave smears of impossible to remove glue everywhere else, its an ideal choice. What is needed is more mastic than glue in this case. Just enough to stop it all falling off. If you want serious adhesion a contact adhesive like evostkik works well. But you have no shuffling time. |
#11
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Gluing silicon door seal to steel - sports car
On Fri, 23 Apr 2010 01:51:53 +0100, Grimly Curmudgeon
wrote: We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the drugs began to take hold. I remember robgraham saying something like: Do I use ordinary silicone to glue them on or is there some specific silicone glue? For many automotive applications, Sikaflex tend to have the adhesive of choice. Got to agree. I've used Sikaflex 221 for fixing skinned rubber soft top seals to metal before. If the surface is properly cleaned a degreased then the seal fails before the joint. The butyl tape that cpc sell for sealing loudspeaker drivers to cabinets is good for temporary attachment at the start of a run and on the corners as it stops the seal sliding in the groove which can sometimes happen with a semi liquid mastic. -- |
#12
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Gluing silicon door seal to steel - sports car
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote: If you want just enough adhesion to hold a rubber strip in place and the ability to not leave smears of impossible to remove glue everywhere else, its an ideal choice. It's a door seal which will have considerable pressure on it. What is needed is more mastic than glue in this case. Just enough to stop it all falling off. Nothing like good enough. If you want serious adhesion a contact adhesive like evostkik works well. But you have no shuffling time. Try looking at Evostick Serious. It's not a contact adhesive. -- *If horrific means to make horrible, does terrific mean to make terrible? Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#13
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Gluing silicon door seal to steel - sports car
On Thu, 22 Apr 2010 13:46:25 -0700, robgraham wrote:
My wife's Mazda MX5 hard top had the door seals replaced a year ago. They are meant to grip onto a steel rib. They didn't fit all that well when I did the job and now they are tending to drop off fairly frequently. Do I use ordinary silicone to glue them on or is there some specific silicone glue? You mean they don't use metal clips which form nice moisture traps and let the car body rust to buggery any more? :-) |
#14
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Gluing silicon door seal to steel - sports car
The Other Mike wrote:
On Fri, 23 Apr 2010 01:51:53 +0100, Grimly Curmudgeon wrote: We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the drugs began to take hold. I remember robgraham saying something like: Do I use ordinary silicone to glue them on or is there some specific silicone glue? For many automotive applications, Sikaflex tend to have the adhesive of choice. Got to agree. I've used Sikaflex 221 for fixing skinned rubber soft top seals to metal before. If the surface is properly cleaned a degreased then the seal fails before the joint. Thus ensuring you will never be able to cleanly remove the failed seal ever again. The butyl tape that cpc sell for sealing loudspeaker drivers to cabinets is good for temporary attachment at the start of a run and on the corners as it stops the seal sliding in the groove which can sometimes happen with a semi liquid mastic. |
#15
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Gluing silicon door seal to steel - sports car
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article , The Natural Philosopher wrote: If you want just enough adhesion to hold a rubber strip in place and the ability to not leave smears of impossible to remove glue everywhere else, its an ideal choice. It's a door seal which will have considerable pressure on it. What is needed is more mastic than glue in this case. Just enough to stop it all falling off. Nothing like good enough. Oh? so you are the OP are you? And know what he wants better than he does? Most of these 'rubber in groove or groove in rubber' things are designed to not need glue at all. They normally need just a tack to stop them falling out, as by and large when closed, they are under pressure anyway. Using a low tack sealer works to (just) hold them in place, but not enough so they cant be ever removed again. I often use hot glue in cases like that. It will glue plastic to things, but only just enough ..you can peel it off the plastic again. Acrylics are good, but silicone is a bugger. Very messy. |
#16
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Gluing silicon door seal to steel - sports car
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote: Dave Plowman (News) wrote: In article , The Natural Philosopher wrote: If you want just enough adhesion to hold a rubber strip in place and the ability to not leave smears of impossible to remove glue everywhere else, its an ideal choice. It's a door seal which will have considerable pressure on it. What is needed is more mastic than glue in this case. Just enough to stop it all falling off. Nothing like good enough. Oh? so you are the OP are you? No - but lots of experience sticking such things. And know what he wants better than he does? Well, he didn't say the car was only used on fine days, so I'd not recommend a non waterproof glue - unlike some. ;-) Most of these 'rubber in groove or groove in rubber' things are designed to not need glue at all. So how do you prevent water siphoning underneath? They normally need just a tack to stop them falling out, as by and large when closed, they are under pressure anyway. Usually sideways pressure. Using a low tack sealer works to (just) hold them in place, but not enough so they cant be ever removed again. I often use hot glue in cases like that. It will glue plastic to things, but only just enough ..you can peel it off the plastic again. Acrylics are good, but silicone is a bugger. Very messy. Most of the common hot glues - as in sticks - ain't waterproof either. -- *Why is it called tourist season if we can't shoot at them? Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#17
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Gluing silicon door seal to steel - sports car
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
Most of the common hot glues - as in sticks - ain't waterproof either. Have you got a cite for that Dave, I'm interested in learning more. Dave |
#18
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Gluing silicon door seal to steel - sports car
In article ,
Grimly Curmudgeon wrote: We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the drugs began to take hold. I remember robgraham saying something like: Do I use ordinary silicone to glue them on or is there some specific silicone glue? For many automotive applications, Sikaflex tend to have the adhesive of choice. There used to be an expert on this group many moons ago, was it Johan? Haven't seen any posts for a long time, but there's the WIKI John -- John Mulrooney NOTE Email address IS correct but might not be checked for a while. A person who is not forgotten is not dead |
#19
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Gluing silicon door seal to steel - sports car
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article , The Natural Philosopher wrote: Most of these 'rubber in groove or groove in rubber' things are designed to not need glue at all. So how do you prevent water siphoning underneath? The same way any compressed rubber seal works. By filling all the space with rubber. Even Drivel doesn't use silicone on his pushfits. |
#20
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Gluing silicon door seal to steel - sports car
Dave wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote: Most of the common hot glues - as in sticks - ain't waterproof either. Have you got a cite for that Dave, I'm interested in learning more. I don't see why modern hot glues would be water soluble. The old glue pot glues were not, agreed. But they have come on as little bit since then. I just tried licking the ones on my desk here. Not water soluble. Dave |
#21
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Gluing silicon door seal to steel - sports car
On 23 Apr, 17:27, Jules Richardson
wrote: On Thu, 22 Apr 2010 13:46:25 -0700, robgraham wrote: My wife's Mazda MX5 hard top had the door seals replaced a year ago. They are meant to grip onto a steel rib. *They didn't fit all that well when I did the job and now they are tending to drop off fairly frequently. *Do I use ordinary silicone to glue them on or is there some specific silicone glue? You mean they don't use metal clips which form nice moisture traps and let the car body rust to buggery any more? :-) Well guys - we don't really seem to be that much further forward, but many thanks all those who have made suggestions. NP has the concept that the glue is required just to make up for the poor attachment of the silicone rubber to the steel channel that is there to hold it. I'm not sure if the channel is poorly designed or the seal poorly made but the attachment needs reinforcing either way. There is no way that I want a permanent bond, and what bonding material is used should be capable of being removed in due course if the seals age again and need further replacement. If it wasn't for the difficulty of application, hot wax appeals. We do have in Edinburgh a guy who restores old cars and my fall back is to give him a phone and get his opinion. Ironically he's just had the roof to re-line it and I really don't quite know why Her-In-Doors didn't ask him when she collected it - the nett result is I then get the grief for failing for once to be able to do the repair. Rob |
#22
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Gluing silicon door seal to steel - sports car
In article ,
Dave wrote: Dave Plowman (News) wrote: Most of the common hot glues - as in sticks - ain't waterproof either. Have you got a cite for that Dave, I'm interested in learning more. I've tried them for sticking trim *inside* a car and they've failed after a period. Insides of cars tend to get damp in winter. -- *There are two sides to every divorce: Yours and **** head's* Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#23
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Gluing silicon door seal to steel - sports car
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote: Dave Plowman (News) wrote: In article , The Natural Philosopher wrote: Most of these 'rubber in groove or groove in rubber' things are designed to not need glue at all. So how do you prevent water siphoning underneath? The same way any compressed rubber seal works. By filling all the space with rubber. Car doors don't tend to have a micron perfect fit. And in most cases aren't round, either. Even Drivel doesn't use silicone on his pushfits. You seem to have moved on from decorator's caulk... -- *How much deeper would the oceans be without sponges? * Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#24
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Gluing silicon door seal to steel - sports car
In article
, robgraham wrote: NP has the concept that the glue is required just to make up for the poor attachment of the silicone rubber to the steel channel that is there to hold it. I'm not sure if the channel is poorly designed or the seal poorly made but the attachment needs reinforcing either way. Is it glued elsewhere? If it is just designed to push into a channel then it would be designed to pull out too. There is no way that I want a permanent bond, and what bonding material is used should be capable of being removed in due course if the seals age again and need further replacement. If it wasn't for the difficulty of application, hot wax appeals. Windscreens are glued in these days - but have to be capable of replacement. We do have in Edinburgh a guy who restores old cars and my fall back is to give him a phone and get his opinion. Ironically he's just had the roof to re-line it and I really don't quite know why Her-In-Doors didn't ask him when she collected it - the nett result is I then get the grief for failing for once to be able to do the repair. Black Bostik was a favourite on older cars. -- *Time is fun when you're having flies... Kermit Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#25
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Gluing silicon door seal to steel - sports car
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article , Dave wrote: Dave Plowman (News) wrote: Most of the common hot glues - as in sticks - ain't waterproof either. Have you got a cite for that Dave, I'm interested in learning more. I've tried them for sticking trim *inside* a car and they've failed after a period. Insides of cars tend to get damp in winter. No cite, but experience. Thanks Dave Dave |
#26
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Gluing silicon door seal to steel - sports car
On 23 Apr, 23:19, "Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:
In article , * *robgraham wrote: NP has the concept that the glue is required just to make up for the poor attachment of the silicone rubber to the steel channel that is there to hold it. *I'm not sure if the channel is poorly designed or the seal poorly made but the attachment needs reinforcing either way. Is it glued elsewhere? If it is just designed to push into a channel then it would be designed to pull out too. There is no way that I want a permanent bond, and what bonding material is used should be capable of being removed in due course if the seals age again and need further replacement. *If it wasn't for the difficulty of application, hot wax appeals. Windscreens are glued in these days - but have to be capable of replacement. We do have in Edinburgh a guy who restores old cars and my fall back is to give him a phone and get his opinion. *Ironically he's just had the roof to re-line it and I really don't quite know why Her-In-Doors didn't ask him when she collected it - the nett result is I then get the grief for failing for once to be able to do the repair. Black Bostik was a favourite on older cars. -- *Time is fun when you're having flies... Kermit * * * Dave Plowman * * * * * * * * London SW * * * * * * * * * To e-mail, change noise into sound. Professional advise is to use ordinary silicone sealant. Seems logical as silicone remover will clean up if and when the seals have to be replaced in future. |
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