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Default Self Levelling Screed

I'd appreciate advice.

I'm refurbishing my conservatory. The floor is concrete but is not
universally flat because of an inexpertly filled in channel for pipes,
wiring etc. I'd like to lay either carpet tile or textured vinyl
tiles. Does anyone here have experience on the successfulness (or
otherwise) of self leveling screeds?

TIA
JonH
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Default Self Levelling Screed

The Medway Handyman
wibbled on Sunday 28 February 2010 16:35

wrote:
I'd appreciate advice.

I'm refurbishing my conservatory. The floor is concrete but is not
universally flat because of an inexpertly filled in channel for pipes,
wiring etc. I'd like to lay either carpet tile or textured vinyl
tiles. Does anyone here have experience on the successfulness (or
otherwise) of self leveling screeds?


Tim will be along in a moment I'm sure - he has done tons of screeding
recently IIRC.


Yes. I have heard what Bruce says to be true of some of the gunk sold.

If the floor is dry (ie there is a functioning DPM in there) then the one
true answer by my own experience is:

F Ball Stopgap 300 HD. You would need P131 (probably) to prime the existing
floor. Try to do a single pour to get at least 3-5mm (5mm flows better than
3mm, but I have done a 21m2 floor to 3mm to within +/- 1mm or so in a single
pour with help).

You can buy it from he

http://yorkflooringsupplies.co.uk/st...131-p-295.html
http://yorkflooringsupplies.co.uk/st...-hd-p-291.html

IME you *must* have this:

http://yorkflooringsupplies.co.uk/co...0cm-p-409.html
(or the smaller version).

Removing air bubbles sounds fancy, but the other effect is it helps the
mobility of the fluid to achieve self levelling.

F Ball Ltd seems to be the business, although I have used the Wickes
Master
stuff (which think is made by them). Do check the sell by dates on the
Wickes stuff though, I've had a bad experience with an out of date batch.

As Bruce says, it needs a little work with a float and works in thin
layers, but its easy enough to do.



The approach I used (from this forum) was:

http://photos.dionic.net/v/public/bu...or/2009-10-03-
img_0023.jpg.html

Sorry, not a clear picture. It's a T bar of 2x1" wood with 3 round head
screws set 3mm out from the edge of the bar. This allows you to push the
material around to about the right level quickly and from a standing
position.

You also need a big bucket and a power mixer (drill type OK for 2 bags,
plasters mixer will do 3 bag mix). Mix in the middle of the pour area if
pouring a lot.

HTH

Tim

--
Tim Watts

Managers, politicians and environmentalists: Nature's carbon buffer.



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Default Self Levelling Screed

On Sun, 28 Feb 2010 17:33:01 +0000, Tim Watts wrote:

The Medway Handyman
wibbled on Sunday 28 February 2010 16:35

wrote:
I'd appreciate advice.

I'm refurbishing my conservatory. The floor is concrete but is not
universally flat because of an inexpertly filled in channel for pipes,
wiring etc. I'd like to lay either carpet tile or textured vinyl
tiles. Does anyone here have experience on the successfulness (or
otherwise) of self leveling screeds?


Tim will be along in a moment I'm sure - he has done tons of screeding
recently IIRC.


Yes. I have heard what Bruce says to be true of some of the gunk sold.

If the floor is dry (ie there is a functioning DPM in there) then the one
true answer by my own experience is:

F Ball Stopgap 300 HD. You would need P131 (probably) to prime the existing
floor. Try to do a single pour to get at least 3-5mm (5mm flows better than
3mm, but I have done a 21m2 floor to 3mm to within +/- 1mm or so in a single
pour with help).

You can buy it from he

http://yorkflooringsupplies.co.uk/st...131-p-295.html
http://yorkflooringsupplies.co.uk/st...-hd-p-291.html

IME you *must* have this:

http://yorkflooringsupplies.co.uk/co...0cm-p-409.html
(or the smaller version).

Removing air bubbles sounds fancy, but the other effect is it helps the
mobility of the fluid to achieve self levelling.

F Ball Ltd seems to be the business, although I have used the Wickes
Master
stuff (which think is made by them). Do check the sell by dates on the
Wickes stuff though, I've had a bad experience with an out of date batch.

As Bruce says, it needs a little work with a float and works in thin
layers, but its easy enough to do.



The approach I used (from this forum) was:

http://photos.dionic.net/v/public/bu...or/2009-10-03-
img_0023.jpg.html

Sorry, not a clear picture. It's a T bar of 2x1" wood with 3 round head
screws set 3mm out from the edge of the bar. This allows you to push the
material around to about the right level quickly and from a standing
position.

You also need a big bucket and a power mixer (drill type OK for 2 bags,
plasters mixer will do 3 bag mix). Mix in the middle of the pour area if
pouring a lot.

HTH

Tim



Tim:

Thank You!!!!

I can handle that.

Regards
JonH
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wibbled on Sunday 28 February 2010 17:41

On Sun, 28 Feb 2010 17:33:01 +0000, Tim Watts wrote:

The Medway Handyman
wibbled on Sunday 28 February 2010 16:35

wrote:
I'd appreciate advice.

I'm refurbishing my conservatory. The floor is concrete but is not
universally flat because of an inexpertly filled in channel for pipes,
wiring etc. I'd like to lay either carpet tile or textured vinyl
tiles. Does anyone here have experience on the successfulness (or
otherwise) of self leveling screeds?

Tim will be along in a moment I'm sure - he has done tons of screeding
recently IIRC.


Yes. I have heard what Bruce says to be true of some of the gunk sold.

If the floor is dry (ie there is a functioning DPM in there) then the one
true answer by my own experience is:

F Ball Stopgap 300 HD. You would need P131 (probably) to prime the
existing floor. Try to do a single pour to get at least 3-5mm (5mm flows
better than 3mm, but I have done a 21m2 floor to 3mm to within +/- 1mm or
so in a single pour with help).

You can buy it from he

http://yorkflooringsupplies.co.uk/st...131-p-295.html
http://yorkflooringsupplies.co.uk/st...-hd-p-291.html

IME you *must* have this:

http://yorkflooringsupplies.co.uk/co...0cm-p-409.html
(or the smaller version).

Removing air bubbles sounds fancy, but the other effect is it helps the
mobility of the fluid to achieve self levelling.

F Ball Ltd seems to be the business, although I have used the Wickes
Master
stuff (which think is made by them). Do check the sell by dates on the
Wickes stuff though, I've had a bad experience with an out of date
batch.

As Bruce says, it needs a little work with a float and works in thin
layers, but its easy enough to do.



The approach I used (from this forum) was:

http://photos.dionic.net/v/public/bu...or/2009-10-03-
img_0023.jpg.html

Sorry, not a clear picture. It's a T bar of 2x1" wood with 3 round head
screws set 3mm out from the edge of the bar. This allows you to push the
material around to about the right level quickly and from a standing
position.

You also need a big bucket and a power mixer (drill type OK for 2 bags,
plasters mixer will do 3 bag mix). Mix in the middle of the pour area if
pouring a lot.

HTH

Tim



Tim:

Thank You!!!!

I can handle that.

Regards
JonH


How big is the floor?

Recommend you thoroughly read the datasheets on F Ball's website too

--
Tim Watts

Managers, politicians and environmentalists: Nature's carbon buffer.

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On Sun, 28 Feb 2010 18:13:48 +0000, Tim Watts wrote:


wibbled on Sunday 28 February 2010 17:41

On Sun, 28 Feb 2010 17:33:01 +0000, Tim Watts wrote:

The Medway Handyman
wibbled on Sunday 28 February 2010 16:35

wrote:
I'd appreciate advice.

I'm refurbishing my conservatory. The floor is concrete but is not
universally flat because of an inexpertly filled in channel for pipes,
wiring etc. I'd like to lay either carpet tile or textured vinyl
tiles. Does anyone here have experience on the successfulness (or
otherwise) of self leveling screeds?

Tim will be along in a moment I'm sure - he has done tons of screeding
recently IIRC.

Yes. I have heard what Bruce says to be true of some of the gunk sold.

If the floor is dry (ie there is a functioning DPM in there) then the one
true answer by my own experience is:

F Ball Stopgap 300 HD. You would need P131 (probably) to prime the
existing floor. Try to do a single pour to get at least 3-5mm (5mm flows
better than 3mm, but I have done a 21m2 floor to 3mm to within +/- 1mm or
so in a single pour with help).

You can buy it from he

http://yorkflooringsupplies.co.uk/st...131-p-295.html
http://yorkflooringsupplies.co.uk/st...-hd-p-291.html

IME you *must* have this:

http://yorkflooringsupplies.co.uk/co...0cm-p-409.html
(or the smaller version).

Removing air bubbles sounds fancy, but the other effect is it helps the
mobility of the fluid to achieve self levelling.

F Ball Ltd seems to be the business, although I have used the Wickes
Master
stuff (which think is made by them). Do check the sell by dates on the
Wickes stuff though, I've had a bad experience with an out of date
batch.

As Bruce says, it needs a little work with a float and works in thin
layers, but its easy enough to do.



The approach I used (from this forum) was:

http://photos.dionic.net/v/public/bu...or/2009-10-03-
img_0023.jpg.html

Sorry, not a clear picture. It's a T bar of 2x1" wood with 3 round head
screws set 3mm out from the edge of the bar. This allows you to push the
material around to about the right level quickly and from a standing
position.

You also need a big bucket and a power mixer (drill type OK for 2 bags,
plasters mixer will do 3 bag mix). Mix in the middle of the pour area if
pouring a lot.

HTH

Tim



Tim:

Thank You!!!!

I can handle that.

Regards
JonH


How big is the floor?


3m x 4m. Access is from both ends of the 3m side.


Recommend you thoroughly read the datasheets on F Ball's website too



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Tim Watts wrote:


Sorry for being terse, have flu.


Surely you mean 'man flu'?

Much worse than normal flu. Have a large whisky.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk


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On Sun, 28 Feb 2010 18:13:11 +0000, Tim Watts wrote:

Tim Watts
wibbled on Sunday 28 February 2010 17:33

The Medway Handyman
wibbled on Sunday 28 February 2010 16:35

wrote:
I'd appreciate advice.

I'm refurbishing my conservatory. The floor is concrete but is not
universally flat because of an inexpertly filled in channel for pipes,
wiring etc. I'd like to lay either carpet tile or textured vinyl
tiles. Does anyone here have experience on the successfulness (or
otherwise) of self leveling screeds?

Tim will be along in a moment I'm sure - he has done tons of screeding
recently IIRC.


Yes. I have heard what Bruce says to be true of some of the gunk sold.

If the floor is dry (ie there is a functioning DPM in there) then the one
true answer by my own experience is:

F Ball Stopgap 300 HD. You would need P131 (probably) to prime the
existing floor. Try to do a single pour to get at least 3-5mm (5mm flows
better than 3mm, but I have done a 21m2 floor to 3mm to within +/- 1mm or
so in a single pour with help).


Oh, and make it up with the max water according to the datasheet, not the
medium or min.

Sorry for being terse, have flu.



Don't apologise, Tim, your advice was excellent. I will happily defer
to it as you have had more recent experience of screeding large areas.
The DIY sheds' self levelling screeds are still useful for smaller
areas, even if they don't do exactly what it says on the tin.

Anyway, thanks for your detailed advice, which I have filed for future
reference.

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On Sun, 28 Feb 2010 20:49:50 GMT, The Medway Handyman wrote:

Sorry for being terse, have flu.


Surely you mean 'man flu'?


That's what I thought. B-) You know you have 'flu and you are in
bed and some one tells you there is £50 note in the kitchen and you
can have it if you can get to it and pick it up in the next hour. If
you succeed, you haven't got proper 'flu.

--
Cheers
Dave.



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The Medway Handyman
wibbled on Sunday 28 February 2010 20:49

Tim Watts wrote:


Sorry for being terse, have flu.


Surely you mean 'man flu'?

Much worse than normal flu. Have a large whisky.



Hehe.

No, real flu AFAICT. Only had it once before ( and maybe as a kid). Not as
bad as last time, but overdosing on lemsip just to stop shivering and it's
been going on for over a week.

Can't sleep now, lemsip fixed everything except sinus aches which are just
annoying.

--
Tim Watts

Managers, politicians and environmentalists: Nature's carbon buffer.

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wibbled on Sunday 28 February 2010 20:04


3m x 4m. Access is from both ends of the 3m side.


12m2 - so that could be done with a 3 bag or 4 bag mix.

Of course, you have to make some allowance for the low bits - you need 3mm
thickness minimum (unless you are going to try to feather it in - which
isn't as good, except for small areas IMO).

Take a survey with a long straight edge and see if you can roughly reckon
how much volume is needed to fill the hollows. On top of this, you have to
apply a further 3+mm over all to get the self levelling effect. I suspect 4
bags will do it for you unless your hollows are vast. Best done IME with 2 x
30-ish l (or bigger) buckets - 2 bags each.

If the water is measured in both, both bags are slit and open and sitting
next to the buckets and you have a friend who can pour whilst you mix with
the drill mixer (mixing should be done as the power goes in) you'll have
enough time.

Allow 5 mins MAX to mix each bucket (have a clock) - have everything ready,
including hose outside and wellies on.

You will have primed the floor with green P131 the day before or at least in
the morning.

Once you've mixed both buckets, kick them over, drain thoroughly and throw
outside.

It's against the clock now, but with mental preparation, 4x3m will be very
easy.

Allow 5m max to use the t-bar or float to push the stuff around. You are now
T+15 and have 10-15 mins left.

Use the spiked roller to work the mix - this will disperse the air and help
it to retain fluidity. Work for 5-10 minutes. The surface reflects like a
pond, so looking at reflections of window frames etc can help you gauge if
it's settled out right.

Walk towards the door and roller your footprints out as you go.

Hose everything immediately (ideally your helper will have hosed the
buckets).

Wait 60 minutes - test, but it should be hard enough to walk on - but go
gently, best not to abuse it for another day. After that it's pretty much
like iron.

Sometimes, if there is a lump in the underlying floor, you can get a lump in
the top as it clings over the lump. That's why the surveying is a good idea
- if you can get 3mm or more over everything it should go well.

Do not under any circumstances fail to use the P131 - this helps adhesion,
but it also prevents water being sucked out of teh Stopgap 300, which is
where a lot of the other products fail.


--
Tim Watts

Managers, politicians and environmentalists: Nature's carbon buffer.



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On Mon, 01 Mar 2010 01:54:38 +0000, Tim Watts wrote:

No, real flu AFAICT. Only had it once before ( and maybe as a kid). Not
as bad as last time, but overdosing on lemsip just to stop shivering and
it's been going on for over a week.


That does sound more like 'flu but into the recovery phase now. Could
you have succeeded in the £50 test a week ago?

Hope the sinus trouble improves, that pain is on par with ear and/or
tooth ache. Have you tried making like a bat? Lie face down on a bed
then hang off the edge so you head is upside down, it'll be bloody
agony to start with but may well drain things out so have some
tissues/kitchen roll handy. The relief is worth the pain...

--
Cheers
Dave.



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Dave Liquorice
wibbled on Monday 01 March 2010 10:07

On Mon, 01 Mar 2010 01:54:38 +0000, Tim Watts wrote:

No, real flu AFAICT. Only had it once before ( and maybe as a kid). Not
as bad as last time, but overdosing on lemsip just to stop shivering and
it's been going on for over a week.


That does sound more like 'flu but into the recovery phase now. Could
you have succeeded in the £50 test a week ago?


What's the £50 test?

Hope the sinus trouble improves, that pain is on par with ear and/or
tooth ache. Have you tried making like a bat? Lie face down on a bed
then hang off the edge so you head is upside down, it'll be bloody
agony to start with but may well drain things out so have some
tissues/kitchen roll handy. The relief is worth the pain...


Ah, proper DIY advice. I'll try that It's really weird lying in a dark
room meditating on yer sinuses as the aches come and go...

--
Tim Watts

Managers, politicians and environmentalists: Nature's carbon buffer.

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On Mon, 01 Mar 2010 10:19:28 +0000, Tim Watts wrote:

What's the £50 test?


As posted last night. You are in bed "ill". Some one tells you there
is a £50 note in the kitchen and you can have it if you can get to it
and pick it up in the next hour. If you succeed, you haven't got
'flu.

--
Cheers
Dave.





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"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
ll.co.uk...
On Mon, 01 Mar 2010 10:19:28 +0000, Tim Watts wrote:

What's the £50 test?


As posted last night. You are in bed "ill". Some one tells you there
is a £50 note in the kitchen and you can have it if you can get to it
and pick it up in the next hour. If you succeed, you haven't got
'flu.


That's not strictly true ATM.
I would never have got there or even bothered when I had the seasonal flu,
but the swine flu I had wouldn't stop me getting there in 30 seconds.

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dennis@home
wibbled on Monday 01 March 2010 13:27



"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
ll.co.uk...
On Mon, 01 Mar 2010 10:19:28 +0000, Tim Watts wrote:

What's the £50 test?


As posted last night. You are in bed "ill". Some one tells you there
is a £50 note in the kitchen and you can have it if you can get to it
and pick it up in the next hour. If you succeed, you haven't got
'flu.


That's not strictly true ATM.
I would never have got there or even bothered when I had the seasonal flu,
but the swine flu I had wouldn't stop me getting there in 30 seconds.


I can get stuff done in about a 1 hour window of oppertunity, 30 mins after
taking the next does of lemsip. after that it goes downhill. ATM I can
barely make 5 hours before feeling so crap I make another lemsip, so running
on a slight overdose but I don't care...

It's all relative. £50? Feck that. But I can move for drugs and for the bog
(I am going to have to be clinically dead before I start ****ing the bed!).

Swine flu... Well, I did read the NHS web site. Yes, I have the right number
of factors to make it possible, but it's a bit stupid because those factors
apply to any flu and even a really bad cold.

So I rang the GP like they said I should. I'm not sure how they know it's
swine flu without a blood test? Could be anything.

Anyway, Dave's bat trick didn't work, but Olbas oil helped a bit.

Can't complain - weather's warmer.

--
Tim Watts

Managers, politicians and environmentalists: Nature's carbon buffer.

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Tim Watts
wibbled on Monday 01 March 2010 13:37


So I rang the GP like they said I should. I'm not sure how they know it's
swine flu without a blood test? Could be anything.


GP rang back. "Almost 0% chance of swine flu round here" he said - "fair
enough, just doing what the NHS website said to do" I replied. "Get some
Solpadeine and some neurofen. Solpadeine 2 off, every 4 hours for the day
and neurofen at night".

Boy that solpadeine is good gear. I'm still ill but I don't care about it
Finally I can treat flu as it should be treated, a good excuse to stay in
bed and watch TV.

Pharmacist said "Ah, man flu then". I wanted to say, "but at least I only
become completely useless and sociopathic once a decade, not monthly", but
as they are the only pharmacist for miles....


--
Tim Watts

Managers, politicians and environmentalists: Nature's carbon buffer.

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wrote in message
...
I'd appreciate advice.

I'm refurbishing my conservatory. The floor is concrete but is not
universally flat because of an inexpertly filled in channel for pipes,
wiring etc. I'd like to lay either carpet tile or textured vinyl
tiles. Does anyone here have experience on the successfulness (or
otherwise) of self leveling screeds?

TIA
JonH



If laid correctly they are good ... but they shrink so best to do in 2
pours.

Or are you talking about SelfLeveling compound which is a different thing
...... these are pretty darn expensive

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Rick Hughes
wibbled on Thursday 04 March 2010 21:55


wrote in message
...
I'd appreciate advice.

I'm refurbishing my conservatory. The floor is concrete but is not
universally flat because of an inexpertly filled in channel for pipes,
wiring etc. I'd like to lay either carpet tile or textured vinyl
tiles. Does anyone here have experience on the successfulness (or
otherwise) of self leveling screeds?

TIA
JonH



If laid correctly they are good ... but they shrink so best to do in 2
pours.


Not a problem with Stopgap 300

Or are you talking about SelfLeveling compound which is a different thing
..... these are pretty darn expensive


20 quid a bag isn't expensive for what it does IMO - the OP could sort his
floor out to near perfection for around 150 quid allowing VAT and delivery
and primer, tools etc and have the job done in a few hours.

--
Tim Watts

Managers, politicians and environmentalists: Nature's carbon buffer.



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On Fri, 05 Mar 2010 08:31:21 +0000, Tim Watts wrote:

Rick Hughes
wibbled on Thursday 04 March 2010 21:55


wrote in message
...
I'd appreciate advice.

I'm refurbishing my conservatory. The floor is concrete but is not
universally flat because of an inexpertly filled in channel for pipes,
wiring etc. I'd like to lay either carpet tile or textured vinyl
tiles. Does anyone here have experience on the successfulness (or
otherwise) of self leveling screeds?

TIA
JonH



If laid correctly they are good ... but they shrink so best to do in 2
pours.


Not a problem with Stopgap 300

Or are you talking about SelfLeveling compound which is a different thing
..... these are pretty darn expensive


20 quid a bag isn't expensive for what it does IMO - the OP could sort his
floor out to near perfection for around 150 quid allowing VAT and delivery
and primer, tools etc and have the job done in a few hours.


Sounds good to me, I'll go there.

Over and Out
JonH (The OP)
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